Unable to sell house in UK, advice please!!!!!!

[Betty81]

To the OP

 

We were in a similar position, house on Market for 8 months, 1 viewing, despite 3 drops in price. Not in neg equity but all capital in house effectively wipes out. We investigated renting. Rent does not cover our mortgage and we were given 3 years consent to lease by bank but at a higher, although fixed, rate.

 

We were fortunate enough to move in with family for 4 months before we flew, they very kindly expected nothing except a contribution to food and wine. As such we saved a surprising amount of money (no gas, elec, sky, phone it fair adds up). As such we have left the home rented for the past 12 months and removed from market.

 

Now we are settled and both earning Aus $ so are in a position to top up the savings we left to cover the shortfall in rent. We are also putting the house back on the Market with a new agent.

 

I do hope it all works out for you, although we managed I would be lying to say it hasn't caused additional stress. Many a sleepless night and fight has taken place between me and husband which we didn't need, emigrating is hard enough.

 

B

[pintpot]

I can't ever recommend running away from debts and obligations. Moral issues aside, it cuts down your options so much. You only have to look at the "moving back to the UK" section on here to see that moving to Australia doesn't work for everyone, just as there are no magical lands where money grows on trees

[Guest GeorgeD]

If I was in your position I'd get my visa and give the keys back what's the point of paying for nothing you may as well rent! Cut your losses and get to oz. there is no reciprocal agreement with banks either so the bank cannot do diddly about it.

 

I was fortunate my lender played ball but some like yours are not interested. What have you got to lose?

 

 

Loving Fremantle!

 

You're not paying for nothing...you're paying a mortgage on a property, that is 100% yours when the mortgage is repaid in full. It's hardly nothing. And if that property increases in value, that increase is yours. If it falls in value, it's still yours and is highly likely to increase over a mid-long term again.

 

Well done on agreeing an exit strategy with your Lender. I think that's the most sensible choice if your Lender can come to an agreement with you.

[bensdad]

Georged what I meant was if the house was in neg eq and they have no other option get the house repossessed its not the end of the world. I was lucky and my mortgage provider helped me out.

 

With regards to rent history etc affecting rentals in oz that's not correct we rented out here with no problem at all.

 

This is an open forum and it's good for people but I really feel that taking such a high moral stand and lecturing to people with a post pages long is not helping the op.

 

They asked for advice not a lecture. Sometimes when

People have such a high moral standing like yours they should keep it to themselves as its not helping the op.

 

At the end of the day it's a decision the op has to make all they wanted was advice not a lecture.

 

 

Loving Fremantle!

[MARYROSE02]

Australian bank shares have always done pretty well - I've had St George and now had ANZ for a number of years. It (can) make sense to own shares in a bank and get dividends and capital growth as opposed to just saving with them.

[Paul1Perth]

I wouldn't panic straight away. The visa process can be a long, drawn out affair and there are no guarantees that you will be accepted. Even if you are it might be a couple of years before you get the visas, who knows what will have happened in that time, house prices may have increased, you might sell it in the meantime.

 

If none of this happens and you get your visas quickly I would just up and go and not tell anyone like the other posters say. Leave the keys in the house.

 

I had a friend at school in the late 60's. They were a rough family and his Dad was always in trouble with the cops for something. This guy had a hair cut once a year and one pair of shoes that had to last him a year. He was always getting into trouble himself too. One day he doesn't turn up for school, no-one sees him for a few days then there was an announcement at assembly that the family had done a runner and gone to Oz as ten pound poms. Rumours were around the coalboard estate that they found the house in a right mess and that his family owed loads of money to a lot of people, including banks.

Never saw the guy again then tried a search for his name when we got to Oz, as I was curious to see what happened. Managed to get in touch with him and he has done pretty well out here and owns a farm in Victoria. I asked him what happened and he confirmed that his Dad hadn't told anyone what he was up to, including his wife and family. He had owed heaps of money to the bank and was in imminent danger of being jailed for his depts. Nothing eer happened to him when they got here. No-one chased him up for anything. They had never gone back to the UK though so that would be where the difficulty might be.

[Si T]

But that's not really true is it? Has anyone ever owned shares in a Bank? Has anyone ever had a pension which owned shares in a Bank? My Dad has a handful of Halifax shares from when they became a Bank many moons ago...people defaulting on their mortgages means my Dad's dividends and the value of his shares goes down. He's a pensioner. There are millions of others like him in the UK. I have family who want to get a mortgage and not move abroad. The more people default, the higher the fees for them and the harder it is for them to even get a mortgage. Defaulting on home loans does have an effect on other people. It's not a crime by any manner of means, people find themselves in situations where they can't pay despite their best efforts, like the big factory in town shuts down and all work dries up...but that's not the OP's situation...take the whole migration factor out of it...would you be handing the keys back if you weren't moving abroad? It's not the fact you are in negative equity per se which is the issue here, or that you can't afford to pay your repayments in your current situation, it's that you want to move abroad. Maybe it's just not the right time for you to move? It might be hard to say when is the right time, just that it's not now.

 

It's fine to say, go and don't look back...but Australia really isn't a paradise with money growing on trees and employers queuing up to employ you...what if you go and can't find work? Outside of the mining sector, companies are going bust. The property market is also on a rollercoaster here. What if you don't like it? It isn't for everyone. Loads of people end up moving back, and what sort of life would you have if you landed back in Blighty, not a penny to your name, with a mountain of debt and a hopeless credit rating?

 

The OP is right, there is no guarantee the value of the house will ever increase. That's not their mortgage provider's fault. There's also no guarantee a move to Australia will work out.

 

 

 

 

Yes, those nasty bankers loaned you money so you could buy the home of your dreams. They loaned you money to buy a car so you could get to work and get out to see the country. They loaned you money so you could go a holiday to the Med. They had the audacity to pay you interest on your savings just for putting your money in their pockets for a while. Right evil bunch every single one of them. You would be much better off stuffing used fivers under the mattress and saving up a hundred and twenty grand to buy a house with cash so you don’t have to taint yourself with their blood money. Or is it just possible that the bank loaned the OP enough money to buy something they wanted to buy, and they have enough money to pay the repayments…as long as they don’t emigrate? Not really the banker’s fault that the OP wants to move to the other side of the world and that doesn’t happen for free is it?

 

This poster also suggested you stop paying your mortgage immediately as you plan on handing back the keys and put all the cash into the Oz fund. Actually, you might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb, eh? Why not stop paying the Council Tax too…it’ll be no use to you once you’re in Oz…OK, so it pays for the community, education, sanitation, etc, but what have that evil Council actually done for you personally?? Stop paying them. And don’t get me started about those utility companies. Stop paying them too…that’s a fortune you could be saving right now. Do you owe any money to family members? Great news, you’re going to be out of sight soon and you’ll have a new phone number, stuff them too, you’re not coming back. Still all good with this or do you think it’s a bit too far…and if it is, why is it all good just because it is a Bank you’re doing it to? Incidentally, it might not be a bank…it might be a Building Society, owned by its members.

 

To the OP

 

 

 

You don’t need to give up on the dream…it might not be the right time for you. You could be creating a nightmare for you to return to if things don’t work out. The house does have a value…it just happens to be less than you owe on it. That makes moving house difficult, (overseas is probably easier because the debt would follow you if you only wanted to moved across town!), but it still has a value. The house price could go up or down, no-one know for certain. History suggests that over a longer period of time house prices increase, so if you sit tight and can cover your bills then the value of your house should increase. At the same time your debt is decreasing, so the situation can get better over time. How long will it take? Who knows, there are no guarantees. The same goes for whether life will be better or worse for you in Oz…no-one really knows. Leaving a trail of destruction behind you isn’t something I’d recommend. I think you have two options…the first is to delay emigrating, it’s not a good time for you, wait until there is a more positive situation at home. The second is to negotiate, and this is possibly the preferred option…also speak to an Independent Financial Advisor to make sure you know all the options, they may even have more flexible contacts within your own lender.

 

While I can understand the points you are making I have to say I respectfully disagree with how far you are taking the point. In my example I have tried to work with the bank but the only response I have had is that they want me to pay an extra £200 in interest per month and £1500 up front fees to change to a buy to let mortgage. Then, if I decide Oz isn't for me and I wish to revert back to my original deal then I have to pay a £4k penalty for the privilege if doing so.

 

I agree that we went to the bankers for the loans but in all honesty, people's circumstances do change. So do the banks. It is not the fault of the customers that we have seen massive claims hits to the insurance companies due to floods etc. This has meant that financial services companies have taken the comemrcial decision to increase insurance premiums across the board, for example in motor insurance, the recoup those losses over time. What you are basically saying is that the banks can make a commercial decision to get themselves out of a financial problem but the customer can't? The banks were not lending homeowners money as a favour, they were doing it for a return. Fixed rate mortgages are currently in the region of 5-6% above the Bank of England base rate. Yes, they will borrow based upon other rates such as LIBOR but they are also in the position of trying to mitigate the losses they will incur through the PPI issue. So basically the cutomers will ultimately have to pay for the losses the banks will incur for mis-selling their insurance products in the first place. I don't seem to remember the shareholders taking the moral highground by repaying the dividends the received out of the profits for those mis-sold policies.

 

I agree that the whole housing market was built on a house of sand and I am the first to agree that in some instances the customers have to share some of the blame for using the equity in their houses to buy flash cars and holidays but the banks are the ones who built the house of cards buy re-packaging the sub-prime mortgages as a tradeable commodity and then using the proceeds to fund more toxic debt and so on and so forth.

 

I have spent weeks trying to come to an arrangement with the bank and all they are interested in is how much more money they can get out of me. If they want to take a commercial decision then so will I. Moral obligation is a two way street and if they don't want to drive up it then they can expect my keys on the doormat when I leave.

[Guest Helchops]

But that's not really true is it? Has anyone ever owned shares in a Bank? Has anyone ever had a pension which owned shares in a Bank? My Dad has a handful of Halifax shares from when they became a Bank many moons ago...people defaulting on their mortgages means my Dad's dividends and the value of his shares goes down. He's a pensioner. There are millions of others like him in the UK. I have family who want to get a mortgage and not move abroad. The more people default, the higher the fees for them and the harder it is for them to even get a mortgage. Defaulting on home loans does have an effect on other people. It's not a crime by any manner of means, people find themselves in situations where they can't pay despite their best efforts, like the big factory in town shuts down and all work dries up...but that's not the OP's situation...take the whole migration factor out of it...would you be handing the keys back if you weren't moving abroad? It's not the fact you are in negative equity per se which is the issue here, or that you can't afford to pay your repayments in your current situation, it's that you want to move abroad. Maybe it's just not the right time for you to move? It might be hard to say when is the right time, just that it's not now.

 

It's fine to say, go and don't look back...but Australia really isn't a paradise with money growing on trees and employers queuing up to employ you...what if you go and can't find work? Outside of the mining sector, companies are going bust. The property market is also on a rollercoaster here. What if you don't like it? It isn't for everyone. Loads of people end up moving back, and what sort of life would you have if you landed back in Blighty, not a penny to your name, with a mountain of debt and a hopeless credit rating?

 

The OP is right, there is no guarantee the value of the house will ever increase. That's not their mortgage provider's fault. There's also no guarantee a move to Australia will work out.

 

 

 

 

Yes, those nasty bankers loaned you money so you could buy the home of your dreams. They loaned you money to buy a car so you could get to work and get out to see the country. They loaned you money so you could go a holiday to the Med. They had the audacity to pay you interest on your savings just for putting your money in their pockets for a while. Right evil bunch every single one of them. You would be much better off stuffing used fivers under the mattress and saving up a hundred and twenty grand to buy a house with cash so you don’t have to taint yourself with their blood money. Or is it just possible that the bank loaned the OP enough money to buy something they wanted to buy, and they have enough money to pay the repayments…as long as they don’t emigrate? Not really the banker’s fault that the OP wants to move to the other side of the world and that doesn’t happen for free is it?

 

This poster also suggested you stop paying your mortgage immediately as you plan on handing back the keys and put all the cash into the Oz fund. Actually, you might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb, eh? Why not stop paying the Council Tax too…it’ll be no use to you once you’re in Oz…OK, so it pays for the community, education, sanitation, etc, but what have that evil Council actually done for you personally?? Stop paying them. And don’t get me started about those utility companies. Stop paying them too…that’s a fortune you could be saving right now. Do you owe any money to family members? Great news, you’re going to be out of sight soon and you’ll have a new phone number, stuff them too, you’re not coming back. Still all good with this or do you think it’s a bit too far…and if it is, why is it all good just because it is a Bank you’re doing it to? Incidentally, it might not be a bank…it might be a Building Society, owned by its members.

 

To the OP

 

 

 

You don’t need to give up on the dream…it might not be the right time for you. You could be creating a nightmare for you to return to if things don’t work out. The house does have a value…it just happens to be less than you owe on it. That makes moving house difficult, (overseas is probably easier because the debt would follow you if you only wanted to moved across town!), but it still has a value. The house price could go up or down, no-one know for certain. History suggests that over a longer period of time house prices increase, so if you sit tight and can cover your bills then the value of your house should increase. At the same time your debt is decreasing, so the situation can get better over time. How long will it take? Who knows, there are no guarantees. The same goes for whether life will be better or worse for you in Oz…no-one really knows. Leaving a trail of destruction behind you isn’t something I’d recommend. I think you have two options…the first is to delay emigrating, it’s not a good time for you, wait until there is a more positive situation at home. The second is to negotiate, and this is possibly the preferred option…also speak to an Independent Financial Advisor to make sure you know all the options, they may even have more flexible contacts within your own lender.

 

I think the problem with your post is it's based on such moral high ground.

 

I rang the bank the other day to find out what a 'consent to let' would cost me. It turns out, 6.5% when the Bank Standard Variable Rate is 3.5% (the rate we're on now after being on 7.5% as a new borrower at 23 just starting out in life) I told them I'd rent it out without their permission, and that's what I'll do.

 

Banks and Bankers are a terrible bunch and deserve for everyone in the UK to unilaterally default on their debts. Then they would discover that all the false property prices (which don't forget they invented most of the inflation by pushing lending boundaries therefore raising house prices) and fractional reserve banking doesn't work. Here are some reasons why the OP should leave the country and never look back:

 

Your Credit Card Agreement is an unlawful contract as it is ONLY signed by you- constituting a unilateral agreement. (Contract Law)

All contracts, in order to be valid, must be signed by someone able to bind the corporation in contract. (Contract Law)

Banks create money out of thin air- they have no money to lend you. (Fractional Reserve Banking)

It is not possible to actually pay the outstanding amount as the currency is based on worthless paper and 'electronic funds' on computers. (Fractional Reserve Banking)

You do not have to pay statements, only invoices. (Bills of Exchange Act 1882)

You are not lawfully bound to pay anything which is unsigned. (Bills of Exchange Act 1882)

The uppercase name on the credit card is not your name, but a 'corporate entity'. (Blacks Law Dictionary)

The banks have been so desperate to get us into debt, that they sold people mortgages, who they knew could NEVER afford to pay them back.

The governments are so desperate to keep this racket going, that they will bail out ANY bank that gets into trouble! Being in debt is one of the consequences of playing the game

Why do you think your government is in debt?

There is not enough Money in circulation for everyone to pay off all the debts!

 

You see, someone in debt, is someone under control - there is always the fear factor. Nothing can happen to you (you can't be put in prison/die) if you don't pay.

[pintpot]

I think the problem with your post is it's based on such moral high ground.

 

I rang the bank the other day to find out what a 'consent to let' would cost me. It turns out, 6.5% when the Bank Standard Variable Rate is 3.5% (the rate we're on now after being on 7.5% as a new borrower at 23 just starting out in life) I told them I'd rent it out without their permission, and that's what I'll do.

 

Banks and Bankers are a terrible bunch and deserve for everyone in the UK to unilaterally default on their debts. Then they would discover that all the false property prices (which don't forget they invented most of the inflation by pushing lending boundaries therefore raising house prices) and fractional reserve banking doesn't work. Here are some reasons why the OP should leave the country and never look back:

 

Your Credit Card Agreement is an unlawful contract as it is ONLY signed by you- constituting a unilateral agreement. (Contract Law)

All contracts, in order to be valid, must be signed by someone able to bind the corporation in contract. (Contract Law)

Banks create money out of thin air- they have no money to lend you. (Fractional Reserve Banking)

It is not possible to actually pay the outstanding amount as the currency is based on worthless paper and 'electronic funds' on computers. (Fractional Reserve Banking)

You do not have to pay statements, only invoices. (Bills of Exchange Act 1882)

You are not lawfully bound to pay anything which is unsigned. (Bills of Exchange Act 1882)

The uppercase name on the credit card is not your name, but a 'corporate entity'. (Blacks Law Dictionary)

The banks have been so desperate to get us into debt, that they sold people mortgages, who they knew could NEVER afford to pay them back.

The governments are so desperate to keep this racket going, that they will bail out ANY bank that gets into trouble! Being in debt is one of the consequences of playing the game

Why do you think your government is in debt?

There is not enough Money in circulation for everyone to pay off all the debts!

 

I think the problem with your post is it's based on nonsense you've read somewhere on the internet - your "interpretation" of the law and the way the banking system works is completely wrong on almost every one of those points. You're talking as if fractional reserve banking is some newfangled wheeze designed to stiff everyone, when in fact it is the entire basis of why banks exist in the first place. Of course they exist to lend - that is their purpose

 

Good luck with renting it out without their permission, If they find out - which they may well do now you've alerted them - they'll probably ask for their money back straight away, ie force you to either remortgage (good luck), sell up pronto, or have your house repossessed. Not something you want to be faced with from the other side of the world. Go and have a proper read of your mortgage contract (which is legally binding, and you entered into it freely, no one forced you) if you don't believe me.

 

I don't work for a bank and I really didn't want to get sucked into this thread on moral or legal issues, but I feel George is getting an unfair ride here. We are talking about people willingly defaulting on their legal as well as their moral obligations here, purely because they fancy going to another country. Man up and take responsibility for your own actions - I really can't be doing with this victim mentality whereby every bad situation people are in has to be someone else's fault

 

Negative equity is a horrible position to be in, and I do have sympathy for people like first time buyers who bought in to the market in the mid-noughties and are now stuck; I have even more sympathy for people who are struggling with their mortgage because they're out of work or their income has gone right down if they're self-employed. For people who've been on the property ladder for quite a while, so benefitted from the boom in the 90s and/or the early noughties, but thought remortgaging, taking money out of their property and spunking it on cars/holidays/whatever however, I have none whatsoever

[Mr Fabricator]

Im not an economist , a banker , a mortgage lender or estate agent . im also not trying to blame anyone ..

 

people were doing well for themselves and were buying houses , this put the house prices up and we all remember how fast , £20k in a month !! whoever thought of these figures needs a slap , and the banks also need a slap for irresponsible lending , lending £250k on a 100% mortgage to a guy who could just and i mean JUST make the basic repayments........... as soon as the economy slowed their was no room for manouver and people were / are screewed .. People were also responsible for taking on the mortgages in the first place but u cant realy blame them when they need a roof over their families head ..

 

banks have always charged for the privalage of holding our money .. i dont have loans for holidays , cars etc but through various accounts i get charged about £20 a month for absoloutly nothing .. even tho ive been with the same bank for 20 years they will slap me with a £35 a day charge if im 1p OD they dont give an inch , period..

 

when i split from the ex i kept he house on , was 1 month away from the end of the fixed rate deal , and my new mortgage was with the same provider , litterally they just gave me a new reference / account number, job done .. but i still hadto pay early settlement charges ,and a new servey , and admin ,, £12k

 

Ill say that again , i used same company , i was 30 days away from the end of the fixed rate mortgage and they billed me 12K for the pleasure .................

 

If less people defaulted would everyone elses banking and mortgage deals come down ?????????????????? hell no !!!!! someone just gets richer..

 

I have a high moral standing and always do the right thing but if i owed 10K in negative equity, tried to work a deal , and couldnt see any way of working it out then i would strongly consider just cutting my losses ...

 

lee

[Ken]

I told them I'd rent it out without their permission, and that's what I'll do.

 

I can't see that causing you a problem at all (morally or otherwise) other than letters sent regarding your mortgage will still be posted to your old address (you can use a Royal Mail redirect but that's normally only for a year and I don't know if you can renew that) but I would urge you to get your house insured on a buy to let basis as if it burns down while it's rented to someone else on a regular insurance policy they are not going to pay out!

[TheClarkeFamily]

Thank you anyone who has replied to date, it is an interesting mix of views really. The bottom line is the mortgage lender has said they will refuse any sale we get offered unless we have the shortfall, early repayment charge and all fees ready to pay in cash! The early repayment charge alone is £4500 approx. The shortfall could be anything up to £10k based on current market! They are not being flexible at all. They will "allow" us to rent it out if we pay them £4500 to remortgage then a set up fee of £1200 to turn it in to a buy to let!! Awful lot of money when you think I will only get a max of £500 a month which doesnt even cover my mortgage. Estate agent requires 10% to look after the property.

 

We have visited Australia before and we know its the future for us as a family. I already have family settled in Perth and we are able to live with them for 3-6 months when arriving, longer if needed. I am a nurse, my husband is in IT but we are prepared to work in any job doing anything to start us off. If we got the jobs we desired in Australia, the money is much better than here and would have no problem paying back the shortfall etc over an agreed time. whats holding us back is that they dont want us to have a repayment plan for the shortfall, they want all money now so we can in some respect walk away debt free but knowing this house has sucked up our £10k deposit, around £10k on work in it and whatever cost the shortfall would be. So yes we could be debt free if they play ball and allow us to sell and do a repayment plan but what an expensive and bitter pill to swallow financially!

 

We have an appointment later today with our solicitor for advice, maybe they can play hard ball with us to get the outcome that suits all involved?

[KIRK AND CO]

If the house is worth less than the mortgage post the bank the keys and head off to australia and forget about it. The mortgage company may threaten to sue you for the difference but if you don't have any assets in the UK there's nothing they can do.

really helpful (not) its good that the ones who are not there yet but going will pick up the cost of the debt one way or another.

[Mizzmp]

After all the expense and utter "ball ache" going through the visa process we thought we were home and dry. We have our visa but the excitement has left us having had the house on the market for months and not being able to sell! Our lender is happy for us to let it but we have card and bank debt (thanks to the gov scrapping home info packs!) so would be racking up even more debts if we left. However, we need to be there by June so if we havent sold we will prob hand keys back and just go! Not the option we want but at the end of the day, its not our doing on the house prices being pants its those selfish big bonus bankers! The uk will take a long time to recover and I feel too many of us are being punished for their stupid mistakes.

 

One thing to remember tho, if you rent the house out you have to pay tax on it when you do your tax return in oz. You need to check the figures on that people.

 

Good luck to you all, I feel your pain x

[Si T]

Man up and take responsibility for your own actions - I really can't be doing with this victim mentality whereby every bad situation people are in has to be someone else's fault

 

Actually read what people have posted. The OP, amongst others including myself, has not just decided to walk away from the debt. We have tried our best to make an arrangement with the bank based upon changed circumstances. If you think that people have got to stay with their same old lives and not make a change out of a moral obligation to a financial institution then you need a reality check. The PPI issue, which was down to the mis-selling of insurance by the banks, cost me my job via redundancy. Did the banks take the moral obligation approach in light of the losses and absorb them or did they get rid of a number of employees to save costs and mitigate the losses? I was fortunate that I have easily transferrable skills and ended up in a better role that I enjoyed more but I know of more than one former colleague that went from working in the Finance function of a major high street bank to stacking shelves in B&Q. Moral obligation is a two way street. I, and others like me, are fulfilling our moral and legal obligation by trying to negotiate with the relevant organisations in order to be able to pay the debt in full based upon the deal and circumstances that existed at the time. The fact that the banks are then trying to get us to pay them more money as part of this process is frankly what is immoral and I for one will not just roll over and let them do it to me. I will do my utmost to negotiate a final position with them to the benefit of both parties but if they push me into a corner then it is the keys they will have.

 

Like I said in a previous post the banks etc have no qualms about increases in prices when their circumstances change and neither should we although we should try and negotiate a settlement if at all possible. Motor Insurance inflation is a direct result of the losses incurred by the banks due to the floods a few years ago or do you think the boards of directors just sat down and thought, "Nah we'll just absorb the losses and carry on." Shareholder lynch mob springs to mind.

 

By the way, I agree with almost everything else you said. If you read my post to George properly I tried to respectfully explain why I disagreed with him.

[Ken]

 

I had a friend at school in the late 60's. They were a rough family and his Dad was always in trouble with the cops for something. This guy had a hair cut once a year and one pair of shoes that had to last him a year. He was always getting into trouble himself too. One day he doesn't turn up for school, no-one sees him for a few days then there was an announcement at assembly that the family had done a runner and gone to Oz as ten pound poms. Rumours were around the coalboard estate that they found the house in a right mess and that his family owed loads of money to a lot of people, including banks.

Never saw the guy again then tried a search for his name when we got to Oz, as I was curious to see what happened. Managed to get in touch with him and he has done pretty well out here and owns a farm in Victoria. I asked him what happened and he confirmed that his Dad hadn't told anyone what he was up to, including his wife and family. He had owed heaps of money to the bank and was in imminent danger of being jailed for his debts. Nothing eer happened to him when they got here. No-one chased him up for anything. They had never gone back to the UK though so that would be where the difficulty might be.

 

You were at school in the late 1860s? That's the last time I can think of anyone being jailed for having debts:biglaugh:

 

Seriously too many people have been reading Charles Dickens. Bankruptcy is not something to be afraid of, it's not illegal, it's not a stain on your character and it doesn't even put a permanent stain on your credit history. Obviously you want to avoid the inconvenience but if your house is worth less than your mortgage then you already are bankrupt you just haven't admitted it!

[Si T]

You were at school in the late 1860s? That's the last time I can think of anyone being jailed for having debts:biglaugh:

 

Seriously too many people have been reading Charles Dickens. Bankruptcy is not something to be afraid of, it's not illegal, it's not a stain on your character and it doesn't even put a permanent stain on your credit history. Obviously you want to avoid the inconvenience but if your house is worth less than your mortgage then you already are bankrupt you just haven't admitted it!

 

Agree 100% regarding the stigma of bankruptcy. Its not a path to be taken lightly but can also mean a massive relief to those who have spent months not sleeping because they have not sight of a way out of their predicament. You don't even automatically lose your home. A client of mine went bankrupt and because the equity in the house was so minimal there was no value in a forced sale as the creditors would not receive anything. They do have a three year charge over any profits in case he sells it however.

 

Insolvency in business is when you don't have the assets to realise your liabilities. Those in negative equity are probably in this situation as they are unlikely to have the cash or other assets to make up the difference. If a business carried on trading in this situation then they are deemed to be wrongfully trading and the directors can become personally liable for any liabilities created after the insolvency was determined and lose the limited liability of having a Ltd Company. Obviously not the case for private individuals and not meant to illustrate anything, just thought it would be of interest to some.

[Guest Helchops]

I think the problem with your post is it's based on nonsense you've read somewhere on the internet - your "interpretation" of the law and the way the banking system works is completely wrong on almost every one of those points. You're talking as if fractional reserve banking is some newfangled wheeze designed to stiff everyone, when in fact it is the entire basis of why banks exist in the first place. Of course they exist to lend - that is their purpose

 

 

Ok, but the thing is, banking is complete non-sense. It's clear that it is non-sense just by the very simple fact that the banks are in a compete and utter mess!

 

Even if we agree that my points are 'completely wrong on almost every one' what point exactly are you trying to make? Forgive me, but you don't exactly sound like a financial expert?

 

Anyway, I guess my point would be to go and enjoy your lives. Sadly, the human race, whilst once needing to kill a wild boar once a fortnight to eat now revolves around getting up in the wee hours, renting our time, and earning our paltry (for the most part) wages to pay the banks and the government the 50% standard rate of tax (think NI, Income, VAT, GST etc etc) and to use the rest of the money financing houses, food etc.

 

I think it was the Dalai Lama that said, 'Man spends all his time trying to earn money for his life and happiness and then spends all his money trying to achieve both whilst achieving neither'

 

If you can be happy leaving the debts behind and closing the door, do it. Don't worry about a thing.

 

I'm such an anarchist!

[Libbysmummy]

Thank you anyone who has replied to date, it is an interesting mix of views really. The bottom line is the mortgage lender has said they will refuse any sale we get offered unless we have the shortfall, early repayment charge and all fees ready to pay in cash! The early repayment charge alone is £4500 approx. The shortfall could be anything up to £10k based on current market! They are not being flexible at all. They will "allow" us to rent it out if we pay them £4500 to remortgage then a set up fee of £1200 to turn it in to a buy to let!! Awful lot of money when you think I will only get a max of £500 a month which doesnt even cover my mortgage. Estate agent requires 10% to look after the property.

 

We have visited Australia before and we know its the future for us as a family. I already have family settled in Perth and we are able to live with them for 3-6 months when arriving, longer if needed. I am a nurse, my husband is in IT but we are prepared to work in any job doing anything to start us off. If we got the jobs we desired in Australia, the money is much better than here and would have no problem paying back the shortfall etc over an agreed time. whats holding us back is that they dont want us to have a repayment plan for the shortfall, they want all money now so we can in some respect walk away debt free but knowing this house has sucked up our £10k deposit, around £10k on work in it and whatever cost the shortfall would be. So yes we could be debt free if they play ball and allow us to sell and do a repayment plan but what an expensive and bitter pill to swallow financially!

 

We have an appointment later today with our solicitor for advice, maybe they can play hard ball with us to get the outcome that suits all involved?

 

Hope you got on ok at the solicitors x x

[craigyboy]

Hi The Clark Family,

 

I am a surveyor and real estate consultant. I deal lot with what used to be called UK banks now they are simply loan sharks. I help both businesses and individuals restructure lending and or move out of loans since the credit crunch. Therefore, with regard to the negative equity situation are you on interest only for your mortgage? This would help to reduce your monthly outgoings and possibly make the rental more affordable, or indeed lucrative for you to rent out whilst abroad. In the event you secured a future sale, please do not get too upset at this stage by listening to the bank threats about refusing to discharge your security. They will do a deal as they are all desperate to reduce their exposure to real estate. Therefore any shortfall in the debt would be better than a forced sale price which represents a higher risk should you not be able to keep up your repayment, or simply hand them back the keys when you leave for Australia. On that note: I had one client who had done everything to appease the bank after they had stripped him of his business, his assets and as a consequence were now wanting his home. Tired of the threats and the stress, he let the property out and fired off to New Zealand (his UK credit rating had already been destroyed). During the letting out period it took the bank about 18 months to recover the property. I will not discuss what he did with the rental income as he was not paying his mortgage during that period whilst monitoring the situation in New Zealand. In New Zealand within a few weeks of landing he had a first class credit rating, great job and after 18 months a large new home deposit !!! UK debts do not follow you abroad at that level. Now, if you had asked me the same question before 2008, my answer would have been so much different. I deal with the misery Banks have caused every day. Bullying honest hard working people trying to get by and pay their way and thus any medicine going the Banks way is just deserved.

 

I cant understand where your 4-5k is coming from to get a property ready to let can you enlighten more? Please go for your dream now and don't waste any more time on something you can not change, and which the banks are fully responsible for.

[craigyboy]

Sorry did not see the other thread, do not entertain them with regard to a buy to let re-mortgage, but do insure for letting. Do not listen to the smug moral brigade, do you think that the banks are thinking of you when their big fat bonus for continued failure are being paid at the end of the financial year? I feel sorry for anyone that has investments or pensions affected by banks recent financial performance. Your quarrel is not with the Clark family, it is with the UK government for allowing the UK banks away with fraudulent serious misrepresentation at law aimed at inducing people to buy their shares.

[ywool]

we are in the same position here in Ireland, however our situation is quite a lot more than a couple of grand. At the height of our Celtic Tiger our house was valued at 500k and both myself and hubby were in business both of which were performing well..we borrowed 250k on house and got valuation back today at 180k which was a big shock for us as we put 170k of our own money into the property...shocked is a total understatement and tempted to just throw back keys as we will never make back 250k we have lost in our lifetime.....

[Mr Fabricator]

we are in the same position here in Ireland, however our situation is quite a lot more than a couple of grand. At the height of our Celtic Tiger our house was valued at 500k and both myself and hubby were in business both of which were performing well..we borrowed 250k on house and got valuation back today at 180k which was a big shock for us as we put 170k of our own money into the property...shocked is a total understatement and tempted to just throw back keys as we will never make back 250k we have lost in our lifetime.....

 

 

Bloody hell !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! id be after blood !!!!!!!!!!! so so sorry for you guys , worked hard all your life for nothing :-( get to oz , start again and hopefully when you put so much effort into bettering yourself you might actually benefit ??

 

lee

[TheClarkeFamily]

Hi The Clark Family,

 

I am a surveyor and real estate consultant. I deal lot with what used to be called UK banks now they are simply loan sharks. I help both businesses and individuals restructure lending and or move out of loans since the credit crunch. Therefore, with regard to the negative equity situation are you on interest only for your mortgage? This would help to reduce your monthly outgoings and possibly make the rental more affordable, or indeed lucrative for you to rent out whilst abroad. In the event you secured a future sale, please do not get too upset at this stage by listening to the bank threats about refusing to discharge your security. They will do a deal as they are all desperate to reduce their exposure to real estate. Therefore any shortfall in the debt would be better than a forced sale price which represents a higher risk should you not be able to keep up your repayment, or simply hand them back the keys when you leave for Australia. On that note: I had one client who had done everything to appease the bank after they had stripped him of his business, his assets and as a consequence were now wanting his home. Tired of the threats and the stress, he let the property out and fired off to New Zealand (his UK credit rating had already been destroyed). During the letting out period it took the bank about 18 months to recover the property. I will not discuss what he did with the rental income as he was not paying his mortgage during that period whilst monitoring the situation in New Zealand. In New Zealand within a few weeks of landing he had a first class credit rating, great job and after 18 months a large new home deposit !!! UK debts do not follow you abroad at that level. Now, if you had asked me the same question before 2008, my answer would have been so much different. I deal with the misery Banks have caused every day. Bullying honest hard working people trying to get by and pay their way and thus any medicine going the Banks way is just deserved.

 

I cant understand where your 4-5k is coming from to get a property ready to let can you enlighten more? Please go for your dream now and don't waste any more time on something you can not change, and which the banks are fully responsible for.

 

Hi and thanks for your info too

 

The house needs rewiring from top to bottom as the electrics are ancient and we have been told we can not rent the house without doing this. Also there are windows that need replacing, the kitchen floor needs levelling and then retiling etc. We had various quotes for the work needed and the cheapest price was £4400 all in.

 

We are not on interest only, but this is something we have considered but to change to that we have been told by mortgage company this would again mean remortgaging which slaps us with a £4500 penalty added on to our mortgage shoving us even further into negative equity!!

[craigyboy]

Hi again, if it passed a mortgage survey before you bought it, then it does not need rewiring for letting. However, you will be required to fit mains smoke alarms etc. Dont bother about the tiles drop some linoleum on top of them or lift . My 12 flats are all clean and tidy and I have them all let to DHSS tenants on housing benefit. Also, assuming yours is a 3 bedroom property;you will be surprised what you can achieve in a rental to a family with 3 kids by going down that route. I also get less problems with my DHSS tenants than the private tenants.