Harpodom Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I'm sure Perth is the capital of an area at least 4 times the size of the UK :yes: Maybe baz, but Antarctica is double the size of Australia, and I doubt you can get a decent bargain there, let alone a posh slap up meal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest31881 Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Earlier on in this thread I posted about a price comparison between a supermarket and a greengrocers right next to it. You'd think, in a normal retail environment, that the supermarket would try and beat the other guy by using its buying power to sell stuff more cheaply. But no, it has for the last 3 years or so that I've been here, consistently charged up to 4 times more than the other guy for fruit and veg.....WHY? Its called apathy Dom, The supermarkets rely on the fact that once they get you through the doors a lot of people will do all their food shopping I one place. We all know about supermarkets selling loss leaders, a bag of sugar, milk or bread, selling these cheaply to encourage customers to come in the shop and spend more money on other items. It the way supermarkets work, tempt you in and you will all your shopping in one place. Well some do!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I think ropey is getting confused by thinking this is an oz vs uk thread whereas it's actually a discussion based on the article posted in the op. the premise behind the article as I see it, is that retailers and service providers are charging prices which are way out of line with the actual value of many goods, products and services. Some of these problems can be overcome by shopping around, others by shopping online from overseas websites. Some we just have to live with. Earlier on in this thread I posted about a price comparison between a supermarket and a greengrocers right next to it. You'd think, in a normal retail environment, that the supermarket would try and beat the other guy by using its buying power to sell stuff more cheaply. But no, it has for the last 3 years or so that I've been here, consistently charged up to 4 times more than the other guy for fruit and veg.....WHY? Because the average punter can't be arsed shopping around. I see it every day. There's a butchers right outside the Coles entrance selling much better quality meat at comparable prices and in some cases lower prices. Does anyone stop by on their way in or out? No..............they simply prefer a one stop shop and that's their privilege, but if they then go on to complain about prices when the capitalist system is trading on the consumer's weakness????????? :goofy: We've become a lazy society reliant on the "one stop shop" and deserve anything and everything that "one stop" chucks at us, if we can't be arsed "voting with our feet" As for your "prices which are way out of line with the actual value of many goods, products and services." Again, we reap what we sew..................if we pay the prices, then they'll simply edge 'em up to see how high they can go. Coles and Woolies have both dropped lamb prices because they edged 'em up bit by bit to a point where the consumer stopped buying. "Actual Value" is a misnomer based not on what an item costs to produce with an appropriate profit margin added on. IRL "Actual Value" is exactly what the consumer is prepared to pay..................something like the $4 lemon. The capitalist system will thrive on those who can't dring their G&T without it.............remove the person/s who bought it from the equation and it would likely be a 50cent lemon. It's all market forces/capitalism..................end of. "Rip off" is not exclusive to any society/country but it's "severity" is dependent solely on the apathy/lazyness of the consumer in that society and they get exactly what they deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Its called apathy Dom, The supermarkets rely on the fact that once they get you through the doors a lot of people will do all their food shopping I one place. We all know about supermarkets selling loss leaders, a bag of sugar, milk or bread, selling these cheaply to encourage customers to come in the shop and spend more money on other items. It the way supermarkets work, tempt you in and you will all your shopping in one place. Well some do!!! I agree with all of that Colin, the only bit I would argue with is by saying its the way supermarkets work here. Elsewhere, competition puts downward pressure on prices and the consumer benefits. Here the balance seems artificially stacked in favour of the seller, not just with supermarkets but with banks, clothes retailers, 2nd hand car dealers, hotels etc etc. We even found the same when buying and selling a house: selling was easy, very little to do except wait for auction day. Buying was fraught with pitfalls: huge stamp duty, forking out loads on building inspections for a house when you have no certainty of a winning bid at auction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Hi Cal i wonder why your bills are almost half that of one or two others who have posted? Here in the uk its similar everywhere, dear ............. you can sign in for a £10 per month saving if you shop around, but your bills appear to be 100% less, as do alot of others, could it be the ones who are paying more aren't using their gas and electric wisely? You could give them some tips. No Jim, it's the fact we only have the choice of one company up here, our electric has doubled since we left Melbourne and we are in a lot smaller house up here. If you don't believe my electric bill please feel free to pay it for me, I'll even pay the first $500 and you pay anything over :wink: The same goes for house insurance, we paid $600 per year in Melbourne now we pay $3000 per year with Suncorp, AAMI wanted $4500, even the guy at Suncorp had to check why it was so much and it's because we have a few trees around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Because the average punter can't be arsed shopping around. I see it every day. There's a butchers right outside the Coles entrance selling much better quality meat at comparable prices and in some cases lower prices. Does anyone stop by on their way in or out? No..............they simply prefer a one stop shop and that's their privilege, but if they then go on to complain about prices when the capitalist system is trading on the consumer's weakness????????? :goofy: We've become a lazy society reliant on the "one stop shop" and deserve anything and everything that "one stop" chucks at us, if we can't be arsed "voting with our feet" As for your "prices which are way out of line with the actual value of many goods, products and services." Again, we reap what we sew..................if we pay the prices, then they'll simply edge 'em up to see how high they can go. Coles and Woolies have both dropped lamb prices because they edged 'em up bit by bit to a point where the consumer stopped buying. "Actual Value" is a misnomer based not on what an item costs to produce with an appropriate profit margin added on. IRL "Actual Value" is exactly what the consumer is prepared to pay..................something like the $4 lemon. The capitalist system will thrive on those who can't dring their G&T without it.............remove the person/s who bought it from the equation and it would likely be a 50cent lemon. It's all market forces/capitalism..................end of. "Rip off" is not exclusive to any society/country but it's "severity" is dependent solely on the apathy/lazyness of the consumer in that society and they get exactly what they deserve. So are you saying australians are more apathetic than Brits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 cheers for that your right of course, some doom mongerers would have you believe that everyones living on the bread line or in poverty in Australia and others try to prove their point using the current exchange rate, which initially makes it look like things are far cheaper in the uk, but they fail to mention, on purpose because it doesn't suit their bias claims, that the same exchange rate means that average wages are then 35% more in OZ, they also ignore the FACT that wage rises are practically none exhistant here in the uk and inflation is running at almost 5% and they don't like it when i point out that average pay rises in Australia have been approximately 4.7% year on year, no facts are no good when it comes to cost parity in each country, but me ........... i'm a stickler for facts, it stops all the scaremongering stories. Jim we have been here 8 years, you know I love the place, but this comment is silly, the exchange rate hasn't affected us for 8 years so we DO NOT compare, you just have to face facts Aus is a lot more expensive than it use to be (I'm sure the UK is as well) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabo Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Clothes retailers are not having a great time of it at the moment and to be honest, I don't see that buying and selling house in the UK is that much different when the market conditions are the same. I agree that the two main supermarkets have a duopoly here and I don't see that changing in the near future. I can't remember any of the Australian banks having to be bailed out by the taxpayer. Though that means you may pay more for your banking facilities. For us, that means greater margins on the base mortgage interest rate (about 2% rather than 0.75% in the UK). Whether you can call that a rip-off I am not sure. Cheers. I agree with all of that Colin, the only bit I would argue with is by saying its the way supermarkets work here. Elsewhere, competition puts downward pressure on prices and the consumer benefits. Here the balance seems artificially stacked in favour of the seller, not just with supermarkets but with banks, clothes retailers, 2nd hand car dealers, hotels etc etc. We even found the same when buying and selling a house: selling was easy, very little to do except wait for auction day. Buying was fraught with pitfalls: huge stamp duty, forking out loads on building inspections for a house when you have no certainty of a winning bid at auction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 So are you saying australians are more apathetic than Brits? I think the problem is as Brits we have always done all our shopping at the major supermarkets, it's in our blood. Kev is right that if you shop around like the Aussies then you will find bargains, but as a working mum I don't have time to shop around, plus it would probably cost me more in fuel than any saving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Maybe baz, but Antarctica is double the size of Australia, and I doubt you can get a decent bargain there, let alone a posh slap up meal! Well........... DH worked in Antarctica and his sister was a chef there - apparently top notch food and free for all workers. Probably all changed in the last 10 years though and charging about $10 a banana mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 So are you saying australians are more apathetic than Brits? No. More laid back perhaps.................they don't leave the country just because of the price of lemons and banannas and so-called crap sausage/bacon. :biggrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I think the problem is as Brits we have always done all our shopping at the major supermarkets, it's in our blood. Kev is right that if you shop around like the Aussies then you will find bargains, but as a working mum I don't have time to shop around, plus it would probably cost me more in fuel than any saving So are you saying its the Brits who lazy and apathetic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlobeTrotta Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Johndoe's point of laziness is spot on. case in point I am living in Adelaide and in the CBD where I reside there is only a Woolies that sells Rump steak at $22.99 kg now 15 minutes away still in CBD at the market the local butchers (whose meat is far superior) flogs it at $13.99 thats not even the sale price sometimes its $11.99. The same can be said for Porterhouse steaks too. (I bought 2kg and saved $22) Second case in point, I needed a new printer copier and scanner. After considerable boredom researching (lets say 2 hours) I found a Canon Pixma MG5150 priced at JB Hifi $95 this model was cheaper than the MG4160 why I thought? Anyway being that I wanted to view it nipped down to the local JB hifi in the Rundle mall and low and behold its $178...hmmm???? Right whats up here given my 52 years I think I'm senile off I run at warp speed (okay slow trot) order online and agree to pick up in store with my $25 Canon rebate voucher I paid $70 instead of $178...the 3 hours I invested saved me $100 thats $33 an hour my time was well worth it. Last example before you all become bored. As this all happened last Friday you can see I was busy...LOL I also bought new pair of hiking shoes Merrell Chameleon Slam warps normally in UK 90 quid I had a pair in 2009 cost 80 quid. Okay exchange rate was 1.90 then so that's easy math $152 including the lower VAT as it was 15% now its 20% so I would expect to pay the 90 quid at 1.60 say $144 but with same exchange 1.90 it would be $171. Anyway a 25% off sale at Trims and that's again 30 minutes round trip on foot I might add I bought em on sale for $165 instead of $220..so if you put in the effort the returns are there. Moral of Johndoe's point is that i saved in 3 1/2 hours saved over $122 with minimal effort now if I could do that 2x a day every day i'd be on to something. We have succumbed to instant gratification at all cost, greed and profit and I might add expense. In my corporate career I espoused the philosophy that it is easier to manage effectively what resources we do have than speculate on what we don't have namely to manage costs not hope for more sales. My latent Scottish genes serve this principal well by being frugal and making an effort to not spend more than necessary. The economic costs of living are high here but minimum wages are higher, finding work well there's another story. You have to shop around regardless and I have lived in the USA, UK, and now here in OZ...its how you choose to live, what you choose to spend your money on and time on. I don't waste mine looking for bargains but I certainly am willing to make an effort to not spend more than I have too. I have purchased many things online and saved a fortune. Sorry for the length of the response. JohnDoe said: Because the average punter can't be arsed shopping around. I see it every day. There's a butchers right outside the Coles entrance selling much better quality meat at comparable prices and in some cases lower prices. Does anyone stop by on their way in or out? No..............they simply prefer a one stop shop and that's their privilege, but if they then go on to complain about prices when the capitalist system is trading on the consumer's weakness????????? :goofy: We've become a lazy society reliant on the "one stop shop" and deserve anything and everything that "one stop" chucks at us, if we can't be arsed "voting with our feet" As for your "prices which are way out of line with the actual value of many goods, products and services." Again, we reap what we sew..................if we pay the prices, then they'll simply edge 'em up to see how high they can go. Coles and Woolies have both dropped lamb prices because they edged 'em up bit by bit to a point where the consumer stopped buying. "Actual Value" is a misnomer based not on what an item costs to produce with an appropriate profit margin added on. IRL "Actual Value" is exactly what the consumer is prepared to pay..................something like the $4 lemon. The capitalist system will thrive on those who can't dring their G&T without it.............remove the person/s who bought it from the equation and it would likely be a 50cent lemon. It's all market forces/capitalism..................end of. "Rip off" is not exclusive to any society/country but it's "severity" is dependent solely on the apathy/lazyness of the consumer in that society and they get exactly what they deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 So are you saying its the Brits who lazy and apathetic? No. You're pushing it. I never singled anyone out. I simply made it clear that in a capitalist system the consumer gets what they ask for. In the bigger systems (with more competition) then they get what the more entraprenarial capitalist is prepared to offer them and the less entreprebnarial fall by the wayside................that is of course, unless their goods are bought by the less discerning (costwise). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 No. You're pushing it. I never singled anyone out. I simply made it clear that in a capitalist system the consumer gets what they ask for. In the bigger systems (with more competition) then they get what the more entraprenarial capitalist is prepared to offer them and the less entreprebnarial fall by the wayside................that is of course, unless their goods are bought by the less discerning (costwise). I didn't address the question to you. Anyway, you posted that "It's all market forces/capitalism..................end of. "Rip off" is not exclusive to any society/country but it's "severity" is dependent solely on the apathy/lazyness of the consumer in that society and they get exactly what they deserve" So, I'm simply asking who is apathetic/lazy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I didn't address the question to you. Anyway, you posted that "It's all market forces/capitalism..................end of. "Rip off" is not exclusive to any society/country but it's "severity" is dependent solely on the apathy/lazyness of the consumer in that society and they get exactly what they deserve" So, I'm simply asking who is apathetic/lazy? Oh! If the question isn't addressed to me, then I better let some other member answer it :biggrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest17301 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I think shopper apathy is not exclusive to Australia or the Uk for that matter. In fact I wouldnt call it apathy Id call it convienience. If I had the luxury of time Id go browsing the markets every morning following school drop off, sadly I dont even have the time for the supermarket run some weeks and am forced to do a coles online shop...poor me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourcorners Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 It sadly all comes down to time, we work longer hours here in Australia and whilst most things are on our doorstep (Kalgoorlie ain't that big!), I normally don't have time to shop around. If shops were open on a Sunday then maybe I would, but I have to cram everything into Saturday morning. Maybe that's why they don't allow Sunday trading to stop you from shopping around.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 So are you saying its the Brits who lazy and apathetic? I haven't said anyone is lazy, it's a case of doing the most convenient thing for your situation/circumstances, for me that's to shop at the supermarkets. If I had the time and the other shops were closer by then yes I may shop around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Silly me! I thought maybe consumers were being lazy and apathetic. I also assumed supermarkets were cynically cashing in on this apathy. Otherwise how could oz supermarkets justify charging ridiculous prices for staples such as fruit and veg and meat and bread when such items are available considerably cheaper nearby? Maybe it's out of some altruistic motive to keep independent retailers viable and thereby maintain Australia's community feel? Maybe bananas were selling at up to $18 a kilo (compared to my local corner shop where they were $8.99 a kilo) cos the supermarkets were helping out the banana growers who doing it tough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest62757 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 No. More laid back perhaps.................they don't leave the country just because of the price of lemons and banannas and so-called crap sausage/bacon. :biggrin: Errr....most Australians do leave to make money overseas hence why there are so many in London. I know many who saved and came back when the exchange rates were great bought houses outright. Also a lot take advantage of setting themselves up as limited companies off shore and paying minimal tax like my hubby did! The only industry here that seems to be paying more is mining well news flash not everybody is in mining! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabo Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Shelf-stackers get paid more here too btw. The only industry here that seems to be paying more is mining well news flash not everybody is in mining! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Errr....most Australians do leave to make money overseas hence why there are so many in London. I know many who saved and came back when the exchange rates were great bought houses outright. Also a lot take advantage of setting themselves up as limited companies off shore and paying minimal tax like my hubby did! The only industry here that seems to be paying more is mining well news flash not everybody is in mining! Is that "most Australians leave to make money" or "most Australians leave"? Either way, you've spoken to 'em all have you? The majority leave "to make money" not for a change or adventure? Whatever their reasons, I'll hazard a guess it's not because they think the bacon/sausages are crap or that lemons and banannas are too expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sir Les Patterson Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I've just had a quick read through this thread.......Jesus H Christ......have a good percentage of you people doubled up on your whinging powder. Unbelievable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Is that "most Australians leave to make money" or "most Australians leave"? Either way, you've spoken to 'em all have you? The majority leave "to make money" not for a change or adventure? Whatever their reasons, I'll hazard a guess it's not because they think the bacon/sausages are crap or that lemons and banannas are too expensive. What are they? Banal grandmothers?:tongue: I've just had a quick read through this thread.......Jesus H Christ......have a good percentage of you people doubled up on your whinging powder. Unbelievable You called? Seriously though sir les, that's most unlike you to fall back on the whinging Pom slur!:biglaugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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