Guest Rich&Jules Posted August 14, 2010 Share Posted August 14, 2010 We are due to emigrate to Oz in a few months time. I currently pay child support for 2 of my children to my ex partner via UK CSA. We have input our details on the Au CSA website and found that the payments would be triple what I am currently paying for earning slightly less out in Oz. This doesn't make sense !!! Have any of you been through a similar problem/issue and what was the outcome ? Do you continue to pay through the uk based on their rules and calculations or go to the Oz calculation method once you are working out there ? Based on the Au method we would be unable to cover our living costs !! Hence we are extremely worried Any help , advice, guidance would be greatly appreciated !! :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verulam Posted August 14, 2010 Share Posted August 14, 2010 I can only say we had the opposite. My husband migrated to the uk and had to pay maintainance for 2 children in Australia. He continued to pay the Australian rates he's been paying all along. I personally think you will have to continue with the UK CSA as the child concerned is in the UK. It should hve nothing to do with the Australian CSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melbournegirlinny Posted August 14, 2010 Share Posted August 14, 2010 We are due to emigrate to Oz in a few months time. I currently pay child support for 2 of my children to my ex partner via UK CSA. We have input our details on the Au CSA website and found that the payments would be triple what I am currently paying for earning slightly less out in Oz. This doesn't make sense !!! Have any of you been through a similar problem/issue and what was the outcome ? Do you continue to pay through the uk based on their rules and calculations or go to the Oz calculation method once you are working out there ? Based on the Au method we would be unable to cover our living costs !! Hence we are extremely worried Any help , advice, guidance would be greatly appreciated !! :unsure: Hi. I'm an Australian lawyer although I do not practise family law. Why is it you think that the Australian family law rules would govern how much you should pay for support of 2 English children located in the UK? Normally, a government has no jurisdiction outside its own borders. So the Australian Federal government does not have any power whatsoever to determine your rights or obligations in relation to a situation overseas. I'm speaking generally here-there are international law things that can change this scenario a bit. Did you read something that made you think you'd be obligated to follow the Australian system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted August 15, 2010 Share Posted August 15, 2010 The CSA is the most incompetent and intransigent organisation in the known universe. I suggest you go to: CSA - The Guide - Chapter 3.6: Overseas orders, court registered agreements and assessments and have a look and then take legal advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melbournegirlinny Posted August 15, 2010 Share Posted August 15, 2010 Rich, I've double checked this for you with a close friend in Melbourne who is a family law solicitor (of more than 20 yrs standing). As I said, and she has confirmed, the UK laws will continue to govern your support payments. The only involvement possibly of the Australian Federal government would be if your ex partner sought to have your court order in the UK (if your support payments are the result of a court order) enforced in Australia in case you were not making the payments. But, as I wrote previously, there is no way that the Australian government has the power (that is, it does not have the jurisdiction) to determine what payments you owe to your ex partner for support of your 2 children from that relationship when the payee is in a country outside Australia. Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss this further. Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mummyadsam Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 sandra, hi im andy from the uk...ive been reading your comments to rich and jules and im wondering if you can give me some advice. my ex wife emmigrated to oz june last year with our two children (shes remarried)...up until then i payed regular maintenance. it was agreed the money saved from not paying australian child support would pay for air travel so i could have access to see them back here in uk. surprise surprise she went back on her word and the australian csa are now chasing me for money. i have no problem supporting my children but my beef is i have no access and i cant afford to travel over there (im remarried and two other children). my question is really can the australian csa force me to pay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zappa6 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Hi all I have been informed that I can apply for a longstay 457 visa, But fear I'll be knocked back because I owe the csa payment, I currently pay csa via detachment of earnings . But fear this will steve my entry Into austrila Or do I just not inform them ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nohea Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 We are due to emigrate to Oz in a few months time. I currently pay child support for 2 of my children to my ex partner via UK CSA. We have input our details on the Au CSA website and found that the payments would be triple what I am currently paying for earning slightly less out in Oz. This doesn't make sense !!! Have any of you been through a similar problem/issue and what was the outcome ? Do you continue to pay through the uk based on their rules and calculations or go to the Oz calculation method once you are working out there ? Based on the Au method we would be unable to cover our living costs !! Hence we are extremely worried Any help , advice, guidance would be greatly appreciated !! :unsure: Hi Rich and Jules I've not read all of the other replies so don't know about other peoples experiences but can tell you that in my experience once you have left the country the csa are not bothered, (not that there bothered anyway!) I'm sure that you still want to pay to support your children but in my experience for those that don't want to pay, the csa will not chase it up. I don't get anything now and haven't for a few years as it ended up too much hassle but when i did and the payments suddenly stopped i rang to find out why, the csa told me that they had been informed that i had moved to spain!, so they were no longer interested in the case. I told them i was not in spain and had no intention of moving to spain they said my ex partner had provided them with this information and for that reason he no longer had to pay! (they never thought to get in touch with me to ask). I've not dealt with them for a few years but when i did (regularly) they were the most unhelpful, useless people i have ever had to deal with in my life, so unless things have vastly changed i would say you would be better off bypassing them and setting up an arrangement directly, (if thats possible). Give them a call and ask them about moving abroad etc. for absent parents that are unwilling to pay (i don't mean you by this, but this was my experience) they try and track them down and go directly to their workplace and take the money before they get there wages, how would this work being Australia, the law is totally different, so they don't get involved. :biggrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyjamie Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 from the mouth of my case officer at CSA in the UK, i pay for my son and asked what would happen when i go to oz she replied this "we have no jurisdiction in Australia so cannot make you pay CSA, unless you work for a company in Australia that banks in the UK we have no way of taking payments from you" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JK2510 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Hiya, a slightly different situation but well worth mentioning! On Friday I filled out my online centrelink-family assistance claim form. After a while I came across a section regarding child support and it gives you several options. If you want the full rate rather than the basic rate you have so many months to start a child support claim. I spoke with the international csa and he said that oz and the uk are a recripral country(excuse the spelling) and they can attempt to get maintanance for my kids as we have no arrangement-tbh there is a arrangement in the way that I don't want a penny off him as he is useless and has no contact with my kids. I ask what are the chances of them being successful and their reply was highly unlikely!! I sort of guessed that anyhow as they can't even sort out anything whilst in the uk let alone when one parent in down under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chris H 58 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 My hubby is being hounded by the CSA after 17.5 years for a child he suspects is not even his! In 93 a woman he was seeing got pregnant. She was seperated from her hubby with 2 boys, had an affair, then started seeing my hubby (I didnt know him then lol) next thing she says she is pregnant and the child was born in the aug 93 just 8 months after he first started seeing her?? Mmmm....He was named on the childs birth certificate as the father and he believed at the time he was. When she was 6 months old, they split up. The mother never asked for maintenace and didnt allow him to see the child even telling him and his parents it wasnt his. (They never married by the way) Years later in 97, we met, dated and when out shopping one day, was spotted by the womans mother. It came as no surprise shortly afterwards, he was receiving letters at MY home for maintenance payments from the CSA, some 5 years after the kid was born! Of course my hubby asked for a DNA test and if it was proven it was his, he would pay. A few odd letters arrived after that, but he stuck to his guns and asked/demanded she do a DNA test. We then stopped hearing anything at all. In 2002, his father died and his mother, wanting to believe she had a grandchild, added the childs name to the newspaper announcement. Of course the family saw this and took it to CSA as 'proof' he was the father. LOL So again CSA kicked in and again my hubby asked for a DNA test stating a newspaper article his mum had put in was not proof of anything! Again, it went silent. Before this, she remarried for a 2nd time and the child who had previously had the womans maiden name, was given the surname of the new husband and he raised the child as his own. No requests for DNA were ever followed up and she never ONCE demanded my hubby take a DNA test when he said he wasnt the father. Anyway, some 17.5 years since the child was born, Aussie CSA have now contacted him for.....300,000 POUNDS and HALF his wage! He asked for a DNA test again and Aussie CSA are refusing saying its not up to them. They wont name the child on the letter only her first name. My hubby said he doesnt believe he is the father and wants a DNA test done, and they argue back that his name is on the birth certificate so as far as they are concerned he is the legal father. But when he asked for the childs surname they refused saying he has no right to know! The fact we are trying to make here is that the 2nd husband of hers, raised that child and gave it his surname, therefore he should have some financial responsibility surely? The second point is, half my hubbys wage is paying our mortgage, the other half pays our bills and we have little to live off as it is, we have 3 boys, 2 at home so are dependants and the CSA here say 'they dont matter' as they are not my husbands children! This woman will be doing this purely out of spite and hatred she has for my hubby, she has tried several times to destroy him when she see's he is getting on in life and hers keeps falling apart. Also at 17.5 the girl is old enough to have a p/t job at least, my son is a student at Uni and he supports himself with a p/t job. The CSA here are real hitlers! What do we do? If he stays working they will take half his wage which means we cant live or pay our debts, car loan etc, which means he cant even get to work to earn?? Catch 22. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 The CSA always say they go based on what the birth certificate says. Your husband should probably talk to a lawyer to try to get a test done if he thinks he may not be the father. The CSA will proceed on the basis that he is the father as he is listed as the father on the child's birth certificate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chris H 58 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Thanks for your reply, yes they keep saying that about the birth certificate. He has to get a court order in the UK to proceed with a DNA test but we have no way of finding their whereabouts because CSA wont reveal the surname or where they are?? There has never been a court order for maintenance ever, and she only tries the CSA when she is on benefits or wants to destroy his life. But refuses a DNA test every time CSA get involved?? The difficulty for us is that we have no money left over after all essential bills including mortage and they are trying to make us homeless?? We have no equity hardly in our home, my ex husband had a court order to pay for my 3 boys but never has paid in 14 years which means we have struggled, lost lots of money and came here with hardly anything, the house was only purchased just over 12 mths ago on a 90% mortgage, so you can see things are tight for us, very. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I would consult a lawyer for advice. You do state that he thought he was the father when the child was born, so you should mentally prepare for the fact that he probably is. Even assuming he is the father, I'm not sure whether hew can be forced to back pay for the last 18 years. Worth an initial chat with a lawyer I would have thought. The fact he is supporting other kids that aren't his is probably irrelevant under the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chris H 58 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 He didnt find out until after they split up the fact not only was she having an affair, she was also still seeing her estranged husband at the same time, so she had 3 men on the go, but he was unaware until after they split up when the child was 6 months old. It was only then, 2 people confided in him that they understood that her husband was actually the father of this 3rd child. It wouldnt make any difference to me if it was. I was told about her when we first met in 97, so its no surprise. But what does surprise me is why wait 5 years before attempting to get maintenance, and then again a further 5 years passes by, then stop requesting both times he asks for a DNA test. Also why has she not taken HIM to court to have one when he denies being the father? That sounds like she has something to hide or there is an element of doubt. Then just as she finds out he is happily married and living in Australia, she then files another claim with CSA. Never has she gone to court, almost like she is avoiding court because he can then demand a DNA. I dont know if a UK lawyer will act for us being over here and we have no money to get one anyway?? Dilemma! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chris H 58 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 PS Apart from all this we love living in Aussie! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I was meaning an Australian Lawyer, but possibly you might ultimately need a UK legal view too. Most lawyers will talk to you initially for free or a small amount. You need to understand the legal aspects of your case. Presumably your ex owes you a similar amount too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I think the main thing is your husband will always be considered the father as he is on the birth certificate. To get this changed he would need to get a court ordered DNA test in the UK. Probably very expensive and difficult path to go down. Good Luck. I'd get some legal advice here in Aus first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chris H 58 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Yes my ex owes me thousands in 14 years or maintenance for our 3 boys. The difference is, my ex has his own thriving business we started together. Five years of legal battle and I 'won' my own house back with a mortgage I couldnt afford and a huge maintenance sum I never got. UK lawyers were the real winners. :-( I knew my ex wouldnt pay, and so it was no surprise when he didnt. He fled abroad to Spa and the CSA just said it was out of their jurisdiction as he was no longer in the UK even though I had a court order for each child 166 pounds per month. I had no money left to fight him, so sold up, paid the lawyers 20,000 pound fee for winning nothing basically. We emigrated to NZ and lost so much money there it wasnt funny. :-( We came here 3.5 years ago, and are just keeping heads above water, we have no luxuries, dont drink smoke or have holidays. We can barely afford to give the boys anything in way of help. We even had a ATO tax debt reduced by $150 pm due to extreme hardship, and yet the CSA want half my husbands wage? Half already pays our mortgage, to take the other half would mean it would be pointless trying to work as we wouldnt have enough left to pay the car loan needed to get to work! So why the UK CSA couldnt intervene when my ex hubby moved to Spain, even with a court order in place, but the same UK CSA are trying to get money out of my hubby here for 'his' child aged 17.5! And yes, my ex husband is named on all 3 of my boys birth certificates too? But nobody has helped me get the money from him? I am sure he owes me a small fortune now yes. But I somehow dont think my husband here owes anything like 300,000 GBP! Especially as no current assessment/payment demand is in place or has ever been put in place either through the courts or CSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chris H 58 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 *Spain* LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chris H 58 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Thank you, we need good luck. Its been 14 years of non stop losses since I split from my ex, met my current hubby, its been really really tough. But we survive somehow. At least we have each other, soulmates and all that. Nothing can break us. It just seems so unfair at times, my ex is living the life of luxury, still runs the thriving business we started together, nobody will even try to get the miantenance off him and when they boys need anything, even a pair of shoes, he stops communicating with them. We had a luxury lifestyle, so he isnt short of money and never has been but he provides nothing for the boys, under duress he has just started to give them birthday and xmas money and he doesnt even write the cards out himself, it is someone else's handwriting on the cards, inside and out! :-( My 21 year old is at NZ UNi and is struggling like mad, and it pains me to know I cant help him out. My ex wont. Now this dropped on us from my hubbys (very brief ) ex girlfriend from 19 years ago! How can CSA take money we dont have? :-( Damn life sucks at times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Let us know what you decide to do after getting some legal advice ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melbournegirlinny Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Thank you, we need good luck. Its been 14 years of non stop losses since I split from my ex, met my current hubby, its been really really tough. But we survive somehow. At least we have each other, soulmates and all that. Nothing can break us.It just seems so unfair at times, my ex is living the life of luxury, still runs the thriving business we started together, nobody will even try to get the miantenance off him and when they boys need anything, even a pair of shoes, he stops communicating with them. We had a luxury lifestyle, so he isnt short of money and never has been but he provides nothing for the boys, under duress he has just started to give them birthday and xmas money and he doesnt even write the cards out himself, it is someone else's handwriting on the cards, inside and out! :-( My 21 year old is at NZ UNi and is struggling like mad, and it pains me to know I cant help him out. My ex wont. Now this dropped on us from my hubbys (very brief ) ex girlfriend from 19 years ago! How can CSA take money we dont have? :-( Damn life sucks at times! As an Australian lawyer I would strongly advise you to get Australian family law advice to begin with. You do not need to pay for it either. There are many community legal aid centres around Australia. Just look them up in your area. I'm not a family lawyer so can't give you any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chris H 58 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Thank you Sandra for your reply. I think if they keep trying to force him to pay a ridiculous amount we cant afford, we will have to seek out a lawyer. Its just more legal hassle. Just wondering when life will run smoothly for once. :-( Thanks x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verulam Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Yes, I agree, get legal advice asap. my son has just had to do this as well. He split up with her for a few weeks and then they got back togather and shortly after she announced she was pregnant. Everyone assumed it was his and he was at the birth and named on the birth certificate as the father of the child. When she was two, it all came out that he wasnt, and they had a DNA test done which showed the father to be a man she had seen during the split. Consequently my son has married another lady, is very happy with a child of his own and is also bringing up his wifes children from her first relationship. Out of the blue last year he too received a demand for payment from the UK CSA, who stated that as he was on the birth cert he was liable. He has had to go to court to have his name removed from the birth certificate. You need that DNA test..the lawyers will be able to help, and theyre fees will be MUCH less than the CSA are demanding. Dont waste any more time...see a solicitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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