Protest Visit to Australia House - update

[Guest SGKG102]

Hi Gollywobbler,

 

Just wanting to wish you and everyone else involved in this the very best of luck for tomorrow. I am sure that you will knock their socks off with your vast knowledge and determination.

 

GOOD LUCK GUYS :hug:

 

Karen

[WAITINGGAME]

GOOD LUCK, all attending the meeting...hope all goes well for everyone waiting....were all DYING for some good news...

 

Thanks again

Lindsey x

[Guest JK2510]

Good luck for tomorrow everyone!

 

Lets hope theres some sunshine tomorrow!!!

[Guest siamsusie]

Gollywobbler and everyone attending tomorrow, I wish you a really successful day tomorrow. Thank you Gollywobbler for your continued support and persistence . Susie x

[Guest KatyNick]

I would just like (like everyone else has) to thank Gill and all the others going to Australia House tomorrow. I really, really appreciate your efforts and taking the time out to go and hopefully get some answers.

 

Thanks again xx

[Guest The Pom Queen]

Good luck everyone, let's hope that you get your views across and that they start to listen.

[merlino]

Hi Gill, would you share with us a summary of what is planned to be discussed tomorrow? Thanks!

[McKlaut]

I hammered this point into Mr Wilden on the phone. He countered by saying that they may be able to increase the size of the GSM program in future years, thus reducing the likely wait for visas. I filed that suggestion. I will thrash it out with him tomorrow. What they might do in future years cannot be factored into what they have done in September 2009. They must deal with the situation as it is, not with the hypothetical situation that they hope for at some unspecified time in the future.

 

The size of migration program has nothing with our today's situation.

What the benefits for us of these numbers? Say 108000 or 200000 if in every particular time DIAC are processing only those applicants who they think deserve to be processed. And you never know what rules are and will be.

If somebody thinks that he is in CSL now and that's why everything is OK he is wrong. It's just a lucky chance to get into the DIAC's train nothing more. And even then if a conductor thinks that your ticket is no longer valid you will be thrown away through the window of that lucky train with no apology.

If today I was at the beginning of my migration plans I would consider other destinations, more predictable, reliable, and fair.

 

By the way, Gill and other "comrades" - wish you luck! Come there and get all the answers we need!

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi All

 

I will set out the points which I think we should try to cover tomorrow. ALL suggestions for additions, subtractions or altering how we approach something will be very welcome. We won’t lose the plot and get so bogged down that we end up with chaos. I will have a very strong team with me tomorrow.

 

I’ve given each section a reference letter in case that might be useful.

 

With that preamble, here goes:

 

A. Introductions

Everyone except me is either an existing visa applicant or an intending visa applicant (Mr & Mrs John Luvpants if John is still coming.) I am sure that Mr Wilden will want to go round the table asking who each attendee is and what their own situation is. No stage fright, please! Also, it is OK to state your Poms in Oz user name as well as your real name because your user name will probably mean more to the rest of us than your real name and informality is OK at this meeting.

 

B. The Rumour

 

At a meeting with certain MIA members last week, David Edwards of the ASPC (???) said that he had literally just received information that about 3,500 applications or individuals whose applications are in the new Category 5 – State sponsored but non CSL – are to be processed during the current year. He had no other information and he has been out of his office ever since. Please clarify the following:

 

• Does this mean 3,500 applications, = more than 3,500 people, or does it mean 3,500 people and probably less than about 2,000 Cat 5 applications?
  
• On what basis are the applications concerned to be selected for swift processing?
  
• Does it include applicants in ASCO Groups 1-4 irrespective of the visa subclass involved and irrespective of the main applicant’s occupation? If not, how is the selection going to be made?
  
• When will confirmation of the plan appear on the DIAC website?
  
• “This year” presumably means before 30th June 2010?
  
• Some of the people concerned are likely to be applicants whose occupations were on the first CSL but are not on the second CSL. By the time their applications are processed, their meds – done on the instructions of COs prior to 31st December 2008 or very soon afterwards in some cases – might either have expired or might not have long enough left on them to allow enough time for an orderly disposal of assets at home and then the permanent move to Australia. Has DIAC obtained confirmation from the MOC that there will be no requirement for any of these applicants to re-do their meds and that the applicants will be given a minimum of 6 months from the dates of grant of their visas in which to make their initial entries to Australia? If not, please confirm that Panel Doctors and x-ray clinics are to be instructed to send their bills for repeat meds and x-rays to the Australian Embassy or High Commission in the country concerned for direct settlement by DIAC.
  
• Please confirm that DIAC will not require further police checks from any of the applicants in this group either.
  

C. Refunds

 

We all hope that the current timeline of 2013 for existing applicants will not come to pass but it might. Some of the applicants are over 45 now, having lodged visa applications anything up to 18 months ago. If they are kept waiting till 2013, some of them will be close to 50 before they are even offered visas. They might decide that at 50 or nearly so, they do not want to try to establish new lives in a strange country. Had their applications been processed within the timescales originally predicted by DIAC, they would have been willing to gamble but not after being kept waiting for nearly 5 years or beyond. Please clarify:

 

• What concessions are DIAC willing to give about refunds for people who do not want to proceed if and when the ASPC eventually offer to progress the visa application?
  
• Please bear in mind that very substantial costs have to be incurred – and effort made – prior to lodging an application for a GSM visa. Is the Australian Government willing to make good all losses incurred and to do so promptly if these applicants decide not to proceed?
  

 

D. Children who will turn 18 whilst waiting to hear further from the ASPC

For other families, the age of one or more of the applicant’s children will become relevant.

 

1. Is the Government willing to “ring-fence” these children, so that if they were under 18 on the date of lodgement of the visa application and the application was lodged on or before 23rd September 2009, the children’s actual ages and activities will be disregarded at the time of decision, their ages having been effectively “frozen” at the time of application in the same way as the main applicant’s age?

 

2. If not, then what does the Government propose to offer by way of refunds to those applicants who decide not to proceed when eventually (if ever) invited to do so?

 

3. These answers should be ready by now because the Government should have worked out a strategy for dealing with the practical problems caused by the new Direction prior to implementing the Direction. Anything less is cavalier and chaotic, which is unprofessional and irresponsible. If the Government does not have a strategy, when can we expect DIAC to announce one?

 

E. Piecemeal Changes

 

There have been 3 piecemeal changes, all of them very substantial, in less than 12 months so far. They were announced on 17th December 2008, 16th March 2009 and 23rd September 2009 respectively, all of them effective immediately and all of them binding on applicants who had already lodged applications before the changes were announced. Therefore the changes operate retro-actively.

 

• Does the Australian Government accept that this is a highly unattractive – and most people would say unacceptable - way to treat people who, in good faith, have applied to migrate to Australia?
  
• Is the Government willing to undertake that no further changes will have retroactive effect?
  
• If not, what are the proposals for refunding applicants who decide – as a result of future changes – that the Australian Government has mucked them around enough and that they no longer wish to migrate to a country when they have been led to believe that they cannot trust the Government of that country – ie Australia?
  

 

F. State Sponsorship

 

David Wilden insisted to me on the phone that State sponsorship will be the name of the game with the skilled independent visa program for the foreseeable future.

 

• Considering that the bulk of the work done by State Migration Centres and visa applicants alike was effectively thrown into the trash bin by the Direction made and implemented on 23rd September 2009, what is the basis for Mr Wilden’s conviction?
  

G. The Questions Raised by Alan Collett of Go Matilda

1. Why are State and Territory sponsorships are now being downplayed in importance - after the Minister has in the past made great play of the delegation of skilled migration initiatives to regional areas/State Government his downgrading of s/c 176 and 475 apps without a CSL occupation is a reversal of past policy. How can State and Territory Governments manage their identified local skills shortages when such applications will be taking some 3 years to process to a decision?

 

2. The finalisation of non CSL applications where meds and penals have been requested by DIAC and paid for by applicants is a matter requiring urgent clarification. Failing to progress these applications to a decision without appropriate financial compensation is at odds with natural justice and fair play.

 

3. Time delay is inherent in the skilled program. Decisions made today will have far reaching consequences in terms of meeting Australia's skills needs for several years hence. The Minister cannot expect to flick the switch on and off, expecting skilled individuals to respond - he is in a position of trust, and intending migrants with families and financial commitments expect transparency and consistency so that they can make informed decisions.

 

 

• What are the Australian Government’s responses to Alan Collett’s questions and comments, please? This is a question of which prior notice has been given in my e-mail to Mr Wilden of 24th November 2009, sent before he had time to get to work that day.
  

 

H. Availability of *Senior* DIAC staff to assist non-CSL applicants

 

Applicants who are based in Europe are now able to contact David Wilden with details of their applications and to explain their individual concerns and dilemmas to him, in privacy, knowing that somebody senior will get onto their case and will try to assist if the problem is or is likely to become serious. Everyone is very grateful for this because e-mails to Peter Speldewinde and others in Canberra have resulted only in flannel blanket, uninformative, standard replies sent by junior assistants which do not answer any of the questions that the applicants have actually asked or address any of the points they have made. What happened to “People Our Business” when Peter Speldewinde & Co actually treat visa applicants like cattle?

 

• What arrangements are being made for Mr Wilden’s equivalents in other countries or continents to look after the applicants from those countries in the same way as Mr Wilden has very kindly undertaken to do?
  
• What arrangements are being made for a *senior* DIAC officer to “take possession” of and deal with the concerns of the many applicants for onshore GSM visas?
  
• When will the names and contact details for each of the senior DIAC Officers in all the different countries including Australia be published on the DIAC website?
  

 

 

 

 

Above are the main points that I think we should cover. All comments, suggestions, additions and subtractions will be very gratefully received.

 

Is anyone attending tomorrow able to bring a laptop with wireless internet access, please? I am sure that the conference room is equipped with wall plugs for the power. Please let me know. We might want to pull stats off the DIAC website and we might also want to refer to this and other threads. Government Agencies normally refuse to let people use the Agency’s own internet access in case the visitor’s laptop is infested with bugs. My laptop does not have wireless internet access, alas. Anyway it is a heavy thing to lug around and I would probably forget to pack half the wires etc that the thing seems to need!

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[McKlaut]

F. State Sponsorship

 

David Wilden insisted to me on the phone that State sponsorship will be the name of the game with the skilled independent visa program for the foreseeable future.

 

• Considering that the bulk of the work done by State Migration Centres and visa applicants alike was effectively thrown into the trash bin by the Direction made and implemented on 23rd September 2009, what is the basis for Mr Wilden’s conviction?

 

I would also ask:

- how many states were discussed regarding these changes before 23/09?

- How many states are satisfied with 23/09 changes now?

- What was the government response to the states about the changes during 09/11 meeting?

- Does the governmet think that states cannot longer define their own migration program?

[Guest Gollywobbler]

I would also ask:

- how many states were discussed regarding these changes before 23/09?

- How many states are satisfied with 23/09 changes now?

- What was the government response to the states about the changes during 09/11 meeting?

- Does the governmet think that states cannot longer define their own migration program?

 

Hi McKlaut

 

Thanks very much for the input above. If we get the chance, we will include the additional questions that you suggest.

 

David Wilden has been in London and only got involved with the GSM visas issue when the Australian High Commissioner to the UK asked him to deal with my request for a meeting. I'm not sure how thoroughly Mr Wilden has been briefed by his colleagues in Canberra, Adelaide and Brisbane, so I don't know whether he even knows about the meeting with the State Governments in Hobart recently. We will find out because we can ask him!

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest Bill_er_Bong]

How much time has been allocated to spend with this guy at Australia House?

 

There's a lot of ground to cover as outlined in your suggestions Gill. Naturally I assume you have taken the time consideration into account, though if it does seem that time becomes an issue, it might be an idea to put some focus on the issues in points G & H - The changes on 23rd Sept have mostly affected and had the heaviest impact on those applicants now in Category 5.

 

Obviously point B looks quite juicy as well! I'm gagging to hear what he has to say about this. Other than that, I don't really have any further ideas to add. I think your list of points is pretty comprehensive Gill. Wouldn't want to be in his shoes tomorrow!

 

:biglaugh:

[Guest pom64]

Hi Gill

Very very good look for tomorrow and to all of you who are going just wish i could be with you all but work says no,just have to say Gill if you put all the points across like you do on her then we should all be in Aus by the weekend GOOD LOOK

Regards

pom64

[ramot]

Gill good luck tomorrow for your meeting. Thank you for all the hard work you have been doing on everyone's behalf. It really is appreciated.

It's interesting that when we tell our Australian friends what is happening to would be immigrants, they are appalled and embarrassed at the way they are being treated, and feel concerned about the image that Australia is portraying to the rest of the world.

[Guest bebac30]

Good luck for all of you tomorrow! All of us who cannot be there, we all with you in minds.

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi Bill er Bong

 

I think we can cover everything on the list in about 60 minutes. I am not prepared to get bogged down in hot air about what is best for Australia. The meeting tomorrow isn't about Australian political philosophy and the alleged problems in the Australian economy are goddamned irrelevant to anybody who doesn't live there and is unlikely ever to be receive a viable invitation to sample life & work in Australia at this rate.

 

It is about how to tackle the real, practical problems caused by the Minister for Immi's inconsistent, self-contradictory actions over the last 12 months coupled with the facts - the number of applicants for GSM visas - having been shrouded in secrecy by both the Minister and DIAC until very recently. If they had told the truth about the numbers a year ago, a lot of the hostility towards both of them now could and would have been avoided.

 

Having made the biggest PR cock-up imaginable by concealing the truth for FAR longer than was ever sensible, they now have a major problem on their hands. The GSM program has blown out and they do not have a coherent, viable strategy for controlling the mess that they have gotten themselves and all the non-CSL applicants into.

 

Hopefully tomorrow a few Brits with common sense can help them to start formulating a viable strategy. David Wilden said he would set about 2 hours aside for us tomorrow but I have left it with him provisionally that hopefully the group session can be completed in one hour - since it will mainly consist of him promising to take further instructions and us nailing his feet to the floor about the dates by which we can expect answers.

 

Mr W is then willing to meet with attendees one by one, in private, if they have any particular issues that they want to raise with him - eg a child who will turn 18 in the near future.

 

And I have not forgotten the Hairdryers! All the CSL migrants heading for Oz urgently are soon going to be a very straggly bunch because most States are short of Hairdryers to keep their heads tidy for them.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Gill good luck tomorrow for your meeting. Thank you for all the hard work you have been doing on everyone's behalf. It really is appreciated.

It's interesting that when we tell our Australian friends what is happening to would be immigrants, they are appalled and embarrassed at the way they are being treated, and feel concerned about the image that Australia is portraying to the rest of the world.

 

Hi Ramot

 

Thanks for this. I am not remotely surprised by the reactions of your Aussie friends. Most Aussies haven't a clue about the Aussie Immigration program, just as I haven't a clue about the details of the British one.

 

However once ordinary Aussies discover how complicated, expensive and long-winded the visa process is with the skilled stream and with the family stream, mostly they are shocked and dismayed. They don't think it is right for one second.

 

The secret weapon I wish most for tomoz is my 89 year old Mum, I can tell you! She is ancient and wheelchair bound but she has a mind like a razor. She would soon sort Mr Wilden out for us all, telling him sweetly, "You can't treat people like this, dear. They resent it. Now, what can you offer me that is better than this?"

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest southerngent]

Gill

I wish you all the best for tommorrow, I was hoping to come along but am still recovering from a bad touch of flu and am not really upto it.

 

Am sure you already have all your questions and queries in order but to add my two peneth worth would be as follows :-

 

Whilst I respect Australias need to ensure tradies are gainfully employed the ens scheme for some just isn`t an option. The Ens has a requirement that no further training is required, TRA will not assess our skills for ARTC without a visa and we cant get a visa without being work ready - and most like myself are not willing to play the temp working visa game for the risk of are home and family`s future.

 

Open up TRA ARTC`s and state licencing for trades and give us a fair go and we will probably be able to secure jobs and settle with ease through the ENS - otherwise all doors are closed and we have paid are money for nothing..

 

 

Good Luck

 

SouthernGent

[TraceyT]

Gill and all the London-bound guys ~ good luck from up-north and a huge thank you for giving up your time and money to fight for our corner. You are appreciated.

God speed.

 

Tracey xx

[Guest Sebbers]

Hi Gill and all those making the journey to Australia House tomorrow, best of luck and thanks for taking the time and trouble to get our point across.

 

Jen

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Gill

I wish you all the best for tommorrow, I was hoping to come along but am still recovering from a bad touch of flu and am not really upto it.

 

Am sure you already have all your questions and queries in order but to add my two peneth worth would be as follows :-

 

Whilst I respect Australias need to ensure tradies are gainfully employed the ens scheme for some just isn`t an option. The Ens has a requirement that no further training is required, TRA will not assess our skills for ARTC without a visa and we cant get a visa without being work ready - and most like myself are not willing to play the temp working visa game for the risk of are home and family`s future.

 

Open up TRA ARTC`s and state licencing for trades and give us a fair go and we will probably be able to secure jobs and settle with ease through the ENS - otherwise all doors are closed and we have paid are money for nothing..

 

 

Good Luck

 

SouthernGent

 

Hi SouthernGent

 

Thanks for your message. I'm sorry to hear that you are poorly. I had a streaming cold and a vicious cough about a month ago, so I feel for you, hon. :hug:

 

If you are not coming, please remember to e-mail Mr Wilden to let him know not to expect you, because only he and his staff know your real name. I don't know it. So if you have asked them to expect you, please let them know that you will be a no show. You can let them know by e-mailing david.wilden[at]dfat.gov.au

 

Chatting with Mr Wilden on the phone last week, he was in no doubt that ENS/RSMS is not a viable alternative for the majority of GSM applicants who are not already in Oz on subclass 457 visas. Whatever the DIAC literature suggests, DIAC's senior staff undoubtedly do know the reality.

 

I also pointed out that Wal King of Leighton Contractors (major users of the 457 visa) said recently that the 457 visa is being "disassembled" by the present Aussie Government. If one of the visa's biggest users is so disenchanted with it, something is wrong with the 457 scheme in its present state. Mr Wilden said he would look into that.

 

What is your own position, SouthernGent? The only real solution to the mess is to increase the number of GSM visas until they get the current mess sorted out and disposed of, in my view, but they will not do that promptly and in sufficient numbers to get rid of the problem quickly. Do you plan to hang on until they eventualy offer you a visa?

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Mongrel]

What about the indians , South Africans , and every other creed waiting for visas to Oz ,While I understand peeps anguish and plight , poms are not the only people caught up in the mess , to answer the guy about ens , its a major gripe with some pollies here , where peeps get visas and dont do the job their visa was granted for so the skill shortage??? remains the same and one less visa granted

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hello YP

 

What about the indians , South Africans , and every other creed waiting for visas to Oz ,While I understand peeps anguish and plight , poms are not the only people caught up in the mess ,

 

Who said that they were? Certainly not me, chum.

 

H. Availability of *Senior* DIAC staff to assist non-CSL applicants

 

Applicants who are based in Europe are now able to contact David Wilden with details of their applications and to explain their individual concerns and dilemmas to him, in privacy, knowing that somebody senior will get onto their case and will try to assist if the problem is or is likely to become serious. Everyone is very grateful for this because e-mails to Peter Speldewinde and others in Canberra have resulted only in flannel blanket, uninformative, standard replies sent by junior assistants which do not answer any of the questions that the applicants have actually asked or address any of the points they have made. What happened to “People Our Business” when Peter Speldewinde & Co actually treat visa applicants like cattle?

 

• What arrangements are being made for Mr Wilden’s equivalents in other countries or continents to look after the applicants from those countries in the same way as Mr Wilden has very kindly undertaken to do?
  
• What arrangements are being made for a *senior* DIAC officer to “take possession” of and deal with the concerns of the many applicants for onshore GSM visas?
  
• When will the names and contact details for each of the senior DIAC Officers in all the different countries including Australia be published on the DIAC website?

Did you not read my post on Page 11 of this thread, outlining the points that I think we should cover with Mr Wilden tomorrow?

 

Sweet dreams. It must be bedtime in Oz by now, isn't it?

 

Gill

[Guest brads]

Gollywobbler and everyone attending tomorrow, I wish you a really successful day tomorrow. Thank you Gollywobbler for your continued support and persistence . Susie x

 

 

 

 

 

 

:notworthy: I also want to say thankyou to everyone going tomorrow and good luck!! :notworthy:

[merlino]

Hi Gill,

 

Fantastic stuff indeed. Nothing new to add, just comments...

 

2. The finalisation of non CSL applications where meds and penals have been requested by DIAC and paid for by applicants is a matter requiring urgent clarification. Failing to progress these applications to a decision without appropriate financial compensation is at odds with natural justice and fair play.

I agree wholeheartedly on this point. As a rule of thumb, I think everyone with meds and penals requested should be processed. Applicants had applied with a good understanding of published timelines, and expectations and plans were made based on them. These constant retroactive changes are destructive and unjust, that do little but diminish our faith in the country's skilled migration programme and the parties running it.

 

H. Availability of *Senior* DIAC staff to assist non-CSL applicants

 

Applicants who are based in Europe are now able to contact David Wilden with details of their applications and to explain their individual concerns and dilemmas to him, in privacy, knowing that somebody senior will get onto their case and will try to assist if the problem is or is likely to become serious. Everyone is very grateful for this because e-mails to Peter Speldewinde and others in Canberra have resulted only in flannel blanket, uninformative, standard replies sent by junior assistants which do not answer any of the questions that the applicants have actually asked or address any of the points they have made. What happened to “People Our Business” when Peter Speldewinde & Co actually treat visa applicants like cattle?

 

• What arrangements are being made for Mr Wilden’s equivalents in other countries or continents to look after the applicants from those countries in the same way as Mr Wilden has very kindly undertaken to do?
  
• What arrangements are being made for a *senior* DIAC officer to “take possession” of and deal with the concerns of the many applicants for onshore GSM visas?
  
• When will the names and contact details for each of the senior DIAC Officers in all the different countries including Australia be published on the DIAC website?
  

 

 

I nearly missed this point! Many thanks for being inclusive. Forumers aka applicants in limbo who are not based in the UK have turned turned to the PIO community for solace, unadulterated information, professional advice, and I count myself as one of them. I'm sure there are non-pommie members and lurkers amongst us who are watching this forum closely as events unfold.

 

If I recall correctly, the 23/9 direction made it clear to applicants not to contact COs, and any attempts to have questions meaningfully answered would be but in vain. A system-generated response directing to the announcement on 23/9 would be at best. Obviously, an applicant in the USA, China or India approaching the Australian High Commission in London would not be appropriate channel.

 

We want the immigration department to show transparency and involvement in managing this mess. Pointing us in the right direction, and as you mentioned publishing contacts of his counterparts based overseas is a small step forward in showing commitment to making meaningful communication with distressed applicants in limbo.

 

Thanks!