Protest Visit to Australia House - update

[Guest Gollywobbler]

The review of MODL is what will be complete by Christmas, not the policy changes that result from it. Recommendations from the review will need to be considered and then selected for implementation, and then turned into policy.

 

 

Hi Jamie

 

The DIAC team told us that they have completed DIAC's and DEEWR's review of the MODL. They have offered the Minister a range of options to choose from and this question is now on his desk awaiting a decision from him.

 

George Lombard or one of the other agents will know the answer to the question which follows:

 

Andrew, the young migration agent who attended the meeting in London, asked about changing the points for certain occupations because the Minister has muttered about this at some point. If they change the points for some occupations after the visa application has been lodged and they make that change operative for lodged applications, some GSM applicants will lose out.

 

Neither Andrew or Mr Wilden knew whether the rules about the points are a creature of the Migration Act or whether they are a device provided by the Regulations only. Where do the points per occupation and the points totals for GSM visas come from, please?

 

The Government's stance is that they have not changed the rules for GSM visas with retro-active effect because they have not made any alterations to the Migration Act in this regard. (That is a feeble bloody excuse and a weasel stance imho, but that is the Official Line and they will stick to it.)

 

Apparently if altering the points means altering the Migration Act then it would take at least a year to get the changes into the Act - Parliament would have to vote on the question etc. (Australia still seems to adhere to the notion that material changes to the law must be considered by and agreed upon in Parliament, which is more than can be said for the British Government nowadays.)

 

If on the other hand they can deprive existing applicants of points merely via altering the Regulations, Mr Wilden conceded that it might happen though he stressed that DIAC have not been discussing the possibility.

 

If they were to change the points it is unlikely that the change would have a material impact on the Famous Four applicants at Monday's meeting because they have all lodged applications for sponsored visas and they all have more points than they need for this at the moment.

 

However let us say that there is a Hairdryer (sic) who has family in NSW and is therefoe determined to move to NSW even if it means a long wait for a non priority subclass 175 visa. If this Hairdryer has already applied for a subclass 175 visa, I think it would be quite wrong to deduct any points. It would be morally wrong of the Minister to do such a thing even if he has the legal power to do it without having to get permission from Parliament.

 

What powers does he have in this regard, though? I don't know because like Mr Wilden and Andrew Butler, I don't know the legal basis for allocating points to an occupation in the first place and then the three of us also didn't know what the legal authority is for the points totals for the different visas.

 

Mr Wilden said that he would find out about this but I sat there thinking, "There is a much quicker way to find out than by asking DIAC. I can find out about this in a moment by asking someone like George Lombard!"

 

I do agree with Andrew though that the Minister has muttered about the points and that is of significant concern for existing and prospective GSM visa applicants.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi

Gill and you 5 that went to London i just want to say a BIG THANK YOU to you all for supporting all of us that could not be there with you, you are an inspiration to us all THANK YOU AGIAN

i would also like to ask a question if i can which is, we first started the whole application process in march 08 with a agent but it was not submitted to the DIAC until Feb 09 we where granted SS WA in march 09 co requested med,s and PC checks in June 09 finalised Aug 09 with all doc,s MET so my question is, am i in with a chance of our visa and if so how long do you think i could be looking at [by the way i am a brickie]

regards

pom64

 

 

Hi Pom64

 

To judge from the Hollies excellent news, DIAC are finishing off the applications where a CO has requested the meds and police checks and they are doing these ahead of the others.

 

Loads of people are asking the same question as you are.

 

I would ask everyone, please, NOT to pester David Wilden about it. A pattern will emerge soon enough and then we will be able to work most things out by ourselves. We will also be able to calculate a lot more once we know how many of the 108,100 visas for 2009/10 have already been granted.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[RonnieRocket0]

I would second Gill's comments there. After the euphoria of yesterday, it would appear to have 'lit a fire' amongst of us all, myself included. In addition to yesterdays meeting, the Minister's Directive No42 seems to have provided a little more clarity to some of the points which were raised. Those of us who seem to fit the slot of the announcement, myself included, it would be too easy to get carried away with the news. I am sure the general news that a number of forum members have been blessed with great news goes a long way to restoring our faith in the system. By the way congratulations to those who recieved an early Xmas surprise!!

In the coming weeks and once the Xmas season is over, I think the picture will become clearer and I would hope that Mr.Wilden may provide us with answers to the points raised by then.

Remember peeps, the glass is half full!!

Kind regards

 

Ronnie Rocket

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi All

 

We didn't go to London for a discussion about the future of International Education in Australia. Andrew Butler from Immigration 2 Oz is quite young - definitely under 40 and I would believe 27 or so. He only worked for DIAC for 18 months or so and that was at the ASPC. Neither he or I really know anything much about the Student Visa to Permanent Residency route.

 

David Wilden remarked that although the Student Visa > PR route was well worthwhile when it was devised, DIAC and/or the Minister are concerned that this route is now delivering an imbalance in the skills that people are trying to use as the basis for migration. (He did not mention any skills in particular.)

 

I responded by saying that I can understand why people choose the highly visible and easily accessible courses such as Cookery and Hairdressing. When someone is outside Australia, any number of these courses are offered as a complete package, whereas if somebody wants to go to Oz and to learn how to become a Welder or a Plumber, one would need to get a specialist Education Agent to put together a series of courses, possibly with a series of different Student visas. Human nature will inevitably be that applicants will select a subject where it is simple to put the course itself and the visa for it together.

 

Mr Wilden said that he was not aware that it is not possible to learn every skill easily if one is a prospective International Student. I assured him that I have heard it is not always easy and with some skills it might not be possible to do it at all - eg Plumbing.

 

Mr Wilden said that this is a question for the Education Department, not for DIAC. By the Education Department I assume that he means the DEEWR.

 

My view is that if Australia wants to attract a greater range of skills via International Education in Oz then they will have to work out International Education packages for a wider range of skills than seem to be available at the moment.

 

The question wasn't pursued because neither Mr Wilden or I have any real information about this subject but if you question the CRICOS website, I can't find a course that an International Student with a yen to become a Welder could study, or one that someone who wants to become a Plumber could study. This problem cannot be solved by people who are not in Australia. DEEWR needs to get on top of it and sort it out.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest pom64]

Thanks Gill

you realy are a star

regards

pom64

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Me again!

 

Jamie and the other Poms in Oz members in Australia are probably unaware of the recent scandal surrounding immigration to the UK. The British Government admits that about 600,000 immigrants turn up in the UK each year, many of them from countries that were never a part of the British Empire. Migrationwatch, the unofficial watchdog, say that the real figure is much higher than the British Government admits to.

 

Somebody called Andrew Neath used to be the Cabinet Secretary or something similar in the UK. He recently leaked a secret Cabinet paper which confirms that Tony Blair's Cabinet decided on an Immigration free for all back in 2001 or thereabouts. Gordon Brown has belatedly and feebly said that he intends to put a stop to this unrestricted immigration to the UK. (He was a member of the ruddy Cabinet at the relevant time. Why didn't he nip the plan in the bud then instead of telling us nearly a decade later that he plans to shut the stable door after having let the horse bolt?)

 

The British Government can think 'em up faster than Daft Harry had fits, I can tell you. Mr Wilden has been told - and he appears to believe - that the purpose of the immigration free for all in the UK is to prevent a racial imbalance between Citizens of the EU countries and Citizens of the rest of the world.

 

Diplomatic protocols mean that the Aussies at Australia House would have to accept this crazy assertion without raising their eyebrows, I would imagine. Mine shot into my hairline when I heard it. I don't believe that it has anything to do with cultural and racial diversity in the UK. I think the hard truth is a wish for a huge pool of cheap labour in order to keep wage demands down.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Kazzarazza]

No of course I haven't informed DIAC because I paid my visa application money in good faith and I'm not just throwing it away, along with TRA fees, translations, IELTS, certifying, agents fees and other related costs. I have estimated over 3 years we have now spent the best part of £4,000!. I have a CO now and they did request meds and police checks just before the eye of the storm, luckily I took the advice from people on PIO and didn't get them done. When the time comes to get them done again I will and I will go and validate with the family on a holiday and then I will have 5 years to maybe go to Australia to live for 2 years to give ME (The person who went throught this process, a new experience). My daughter will have the opportunity to at least use her PR status during this time, even if we don't!

 

I understand what you mean with the 'fair go' theory but it doesn't wash with me any longer. I started this process all bright eyed and bushy tailed and being dumped on by Australia sours you a bit but there's no way I'm throwing my money away - Sorry if that upsets anyone who is desperate to get to Australia and feels I'm throwing away their 'golden ticket'.

Hi June Pixie,

Sorry if you took my post the wrong way - I took it that you were completely over Australia and maybe off to the job in Germany. Don't give up on Aus and your dreams - the place and the people are no different to when you applied. We just have a lousy Govt and that is one thing that can, and no doubt will, change.

I've sent you a PM

Cheers, Kazza :hug:

[Guest chrissy990]

I would say that it wasn't just about the average wage, it was more about expanding/growing the UK economy. Will also be the reason why the UK won't put more barrs if any in front of peeps wanting to migrate to the UK in the future.

 

To quote Richard Branson "you need to expand during recession".

[Guest Justin JIANG]

Hi All

 

 

What about the ex Student applicants for onshore GSM visas? Mr Wilden stated firmly that if agents and their clients or independent applicants demand a similar service, it will be provided but the people involved with the onshore visas must sort this out for themselves and by themselves - in Austalia.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

 

Hi Gill,

 

What does the above mean? I am an onshore 886 SS, Non-CSL applicant. Is it fair to seperate the onshore applicants from this issue as when SS is the main concern for this fiaso? -----Even the children would know some general fairness in most of the cases, so I am really doubt about the capability of DIAC to slove the arising problems in a generally accepted way.

As I remember that you've mentioned you did not understand what difficulites onshore applicants may face if they are holding a bridging visa while awatiing their 886 decision ? Here I for one, as an onshore applicant waiting for the PR for more than 18 months would like to give you some factual examples that I face in Australia while I was being regarded as an 'Alien' in OZ.

 

1. Wanna apply for a credit card in westpac and etc-----------answers from the bank: sorry, as you are just a bridging visa holder, currently, we could not issue you a credit card

2. Wanna sign for a mobile phone----------sorry, as your visa does not last for at least 2 years, we could sign it for you

3. Planning to rent a house/unit---------sorry, based on the credit points of your current status, we would not be able to provide you with the contract for house.unit renting. (Hiden story---the local could get more points as they are settled having more evidence to show their credibilities and usually, i would be in a disavantagious position)

4.Looking for a job-------some employers just straightly say 'PR is the preliminary for this postion'

5. Purchasing a house----another difficult issue as restrictions and limitations would be applied to the Aliens.

 

Not happy to mention this bad stuff! Sorry!

[nahla]

can any one please state visas that lies under category five ?

 

Nahla

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi Justin

 

I am not satisfied with the uninformative, blanket, standard replies that Peter Speldewinde's staff are sending out to anyone who tries to obtain information from him. I therefore suggested that there should be "special liaison officers" like David Wilden looking after each of the main regions of the globe in relation to applicants for offshore GSM visas who are outside Australia and another such "special officer" in Australia to look after the applicants for onshore GSM visas such as yourself.

 

David Wilden said that DIAC believe my request is unnecessary. Clients based in the UK and European countries have complained and have demanded better answers. David Wilden is DIAC's Regional Director for Europe so he is dealing with this group.

 

He said that India and the People's Republic of China supply Australia with far more skilled migrants than Europe and the UK provide. He said that applicants in India and the PRC are not complaining in the same way that the Poms and others are whingeing.

 

He added that there is no huge storm of complaints addressed to DIAC on behalf of applicants for onshore GSM visas either. David Wilden set up and ran the Global Feedback Unit for a while and he gave it teeth:

 

Contact Us – Compliments and Complaints – Department of Immigration and Citizenship

 

He reckons that if GSM applicants are not content, they have the option to complain if they want to. If a complaint is not dealt with promptly it is automatically escalated to a very senior level, in which case action will follow to deal with the matter that the applicant is complaining about.

 

He said that if the applicants like you in Australia feel that you need your own special liaison officer then this is a matter for DIAC in Australia to deal with. My feeling is that this would be done via complaints to the GFU and also to the Manager of the Brisbane Skilled Processing Centre.

 

Are you clearer about this now, please?

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[ramot]

Hi Gill,

 

What does the above mean? I am an onshore 886 SS, Non-CSL applicant. Is it fair to seperate the onshore applicants from this issue as when SS is the main concern for this fiaso? -----Even the children would know some general fairness in most of the cases, so I am really doubt about the capability of DIAC to slove the arising problems in a generally accepted way.

As I remember that you've mentioned you did not understand what difficulites onshore applicants may face if they are holding a bridging visa while awatiing their 886 decision ? Here I for one, as an onshore applicant waiting for the PR for more than 18 months would like to give you some factual examples that I face in Australia while I was being regarded as an 'Alien' in OZ.

 

1. Wanna apply for a credit card in westpac and etc-----------answers from the bank: sorry, as you are just a bridging visa holder, currently, we could not issue you a credit card

2. Wanna sign for a mobile phone----------sorry, as your visa does not last for at least 2 years, we could sign it for you

3. Planning to rent a house/unit---------sorry, based on the credit points of your current status, we would not be able to provide you with the contract for house.unit renting. (Hiden story---the local could get more points as they are settled having more evidence to show their credibilities and usually, i would be in a disavantagious position)

4.Looking for a job-------some employers just straightly say 'PR is the preliminary for this postion'

5. Purchasing a house----another difficult issue as restrictions and limitations would be applied to the Aliens.

 

Not happy to mention this bad stuff! Sorry!

 

 

Hi Gill,

First thank you and the other 5 for your efforts on everyone's behalf.

Have to agree with the above poster with the points concerning onshore applicants.

All are almost impossible to obtain on a bridging visa.

eg. even contact centre jobs are now insisting on PR!!

As other applicants for PR, the visas were lodged in good faith, based on the existing facts known. Lots are also British subjects, who it would appear from your post, aren't going to be treated equally as offshore applicants. Not quite sure why David should be so dismissive of onshore applicants, if, as appears, he is prepared to listen sympathetically to the plight of others. I wouldn't like to think it's just because he thinks this is the most vociferous group, and with the grant of some of their visas, with a bit of luck the problem will quieten down.

Bridging visas are possibly the only ones that have to be front loaded before lodgement, and were surely only intended as a short term visa. So unless you are very very lucky, almost everyone faces the expensive prospect of having to re-do medicals etc. after a year.

Would be interested to know if these all have to be done before the year is out, to ensure that your application stays valid. Does anyone know the answer? Would hate to see the situation arise that as everything is out of date, the application could be refused.

[ramot]

Hi Justin

 

I am not satisfied with the uninformative, blanket, standard replies that Peter Speldewinde's staff are sending out to anyone who tries to obtain information from him. I therefore suggested that there should be "special liaison officers" like David Wilden looking after each of the main regions of the globe in relation to applicants for offshore GSM visas who are outside Australia and another such "special officer" in Australia to look after the applicants for onshore GSM visas such as yourself.

 

David Wilden said that DIAC believe my request is unnecessary. Clients based in the UK and European countries have complained and have demanded better answers. David Wilden is DIAC's Regional Director for Europe so he is dealing with this group.

 

He said that India and the People's Republic of China supply Australia with far more skilled migrants than Europe and the UK provide. He said that applicants in India and the PRC are not complaining in the same way that the Poms and others are whingeing.

 

He added that there is no huge storm of complaints addressed to DIAC on behalf of applicants for onshore GSM visas either. David Wilden set up and ran the Global Feedback Unit for a while and he gave it teeth:

 

Contact Us – Compliments and Complaints – Department of Immigration and Citizenship

 

He reckons that if GSM applicants are not content, they have the option to complain if they want to. If a complaint is not dealt with promptly it is automatically escalated to a very senior level, in which case action will follow to deal with the matter that the applicant is complaining about.

 

He said that if the applicants like you in Australia feel that you need your own special liaison officer then this is a matter for DIAC in Australia to deal with. My feeling is that this would be done via complaints to the GFU and also to the Manager of the Brisbane Skilled Processing Centre.

 

Are you clearer about this now, please?

 

Cheers

 

Gill

Hi Gill,

Sorry was posting at the same time,. Thank you for the advice.

[Guest pippa1]

Hi there

 

I am another onshore british applicant on a bridging visa. I have complained and requested help from so many people i can't tell you! GFU, Ombudsman, local MP, federal MP, Ministers of every department!....got no where...please can we borrow Gill for a while:biggrin:

 

I am category 6 family sponsored 886 and my medicals expire next week:arghh: I'm really worried about them moving the goal posts again and increasing the point total. I am also intrigued as to why they state 2011 for onshore and 2012 for offshore, does this mean they will continue to work through the priorities in Brisbane. I'm not sure how many category 5 886's there are, because the states appeared to close the doors to a lot of students.

 

I'm really pleased for all category 5 applicants getting grants and hope that there may be some good news for us all on Bridging visa's soon. How long can they leave us? we have access to medicare so we must be a drain on society.

 

Ramot, I think we will be the last ones here to turn out the light!

 

Good luck to all

x

[McKlaut]

Has anybody received an update for his (her) case from Mr. Wilden?

He stated that he would "get back to me soon" so I just try to estimate the probable time.

[Guest jains005]

Hi

Is anything told about giving priority to the application already done med and pcc? i did my med on 22/9 as requested by the agent bcoz my application was allocated a CO. CO had asked to provide some documents but hadn't requested to do medical checks.

 

jains

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi Ramot

 

Would be interested to know if these all have to be done before the year is out, to ensure that your application stays valid. Does anyone know the answer? Would hate to see the situation arise that as everything is out of date, the application could be refused.

 

I don't know the answer to your question above. Have you tried asking the Brisbane Skilled Processing Centre?

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest Gollywobbler]

can any one please state visas that lies under category five ?

 

Nahla

 

 

Hi Nahla

 

Subclasses 176, 475, 886 and 487 are all included in Category 5.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi there

 

I am another onshore british applicant on a bridging visa. I have complained and requested help from so many people i can't tell you! GFU, Ombudsman, local MP, federal MP, Ministers of every department!....got no where...please can we borrow Gill for a while:biggrin:

 

I am category 6 family sponsored 886 and my medicals expire next week:arghh: I'm really worried about them moving the goal posts again and increasing the point total. I am also intrigued as to why they state 2011 for onshore and 2012 for offshore, does this mean they will continue to work through the priorities in Brisbane. I'm not sure how many category 5 886's there are, because the states appeared to close the doors to a lot of students.

 

I'm really pleased for all category 5 applicants getting grants and hope that there may be some good news for us all on Bridging visa's soon. How long can they leave us? we have access to medicare so we must be a drain on society.

 

Ramot, I think we will be the last ones here to turn out the light!

 

Good luck to all

x

 

Hi Pippa

 

Plainly they want to clear the backlogs as soon as they can. In his radio interview with Peter Mares on 13th November, the Minister said his information was that there were about 30,000 applications in hand at the BSPC for onshore GSM visas. He did NOT have the figures for a breakdown of the numbers of applications for different subclasses of visas. The Minister gave only the total figure.

 

In the same interview the Minister said that there were about 105,000 applications for offshore GSM visas in hand at the ASPC. Again, he did not suggest any breakdowns in the figures for different visa subclasses. 105,000 was just the overall total again.

 

When there are 3 times as many applications for offshore GSM visas as there are for onshore ones and only about 60.000 GSM visas are likely to be granted in any one year, I think the processing dates make sense. Would you agree?

 

In their statement to the MIA, DIAC have made it clear that they do not anticipate being able to grant all the outstanding Category 5 applications during the current program year - that is, not all Cat 5 applications will get final processing prior to 30th June 2010.

 

With regard to Category 6, one of the questions we asked of Mr Wilden at the meeting at Oz House is, "How many Category 6 applications are there?" Mr Wilden did not know but he said he would find out and let us know. Whilst we wait for the figures from him, we can do a fair amount of sleuthing on our own if we try. Please see the thread below:

 

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/70325-what-would-you-say-minister-immigration-really.html

 

During the MIA Conference from 8-11 October 2008, Jamie Smith obtained the following figures from DIAC:

 

The Adelaide numbers are ranked like this, reflecting priority of processing, numbers are individual applications, not total people involved:

 

State nominated with CSL, Unallocated 27, Allocated 720, Total 747

Family sponsored CSL, 1130, 279, 1409

All other CSL, 6335, 4289, 10624

All other State nominated, 3678, 0, 3678

MODL only, 12388, 0, 12388

Other, 15659, 0, 15659

Total, 39217, 5279, 44496

 

We discovered on Monday that a CO finalising GSM applications can be handling anything up to 300 applications at any given time. That is FAR more than I ever imagined to be possible. Andrew Butler who attended spent about 18 months working at the ASPC. He said that a CO at the ASPC is expected to finalise about 30 applications each week and each week another 30 applications will be added to that CO's "in-tray." In short, once their systems are set up and are running smoothly, DIAC are able to process an awesome number of applications each week.

 

With regard to your concerns about the points total, please see this thread:

 

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/73723-modl-review-points-test.html

 

George Lombard has a massive amount of experience. What he says is sure to be accurate. As you can see, George is not worried about the points because altering the points is clearly a major exercise. If you can, please try not to worry about this.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Has anybody received an update for his (her) case from Mr. Wilden?

He stated that he would "get back to me soon" so I just try to estimate the probable time.

 

H McKlaut

 

When did you send your query to Mr Wilden? My guess is that it will take at least 3 weeks from receipt of a question before Mr Wilden will be able to provide any guidance.

 

I know you are worried because your meds are due to expire on 26/02/2010. Are you and your family in a position where you could drop everything else and move to Australia by 26/02/2010? If not, would you be able to make a short validation visit to Australia before 26/02/2010?

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Hi

Is anything told about giving priority to the application already done med and pcc? i did my med on 22/9 as requested by the agent bcoz my application was allocated a CO. CO had asked to provide some documents but hadn't requested to do medical checks.

 

jains

 

Hi jains

 

The MIA have been told that in their efforts to clear the backlog of Category 5 applications, DIAC will give priority to the Cat 5 applications where a Case Officer has requested meds and pccs. The statement means what it says.

 

You say that you frontloaded your meds on the advice of your agent, not at the request of your CO?

 

Did your agent supply everything else that your CO wanted, please? If you are not sure, I would suggest that you double check about this.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest KatyNick]

Gill - do you think there will be any Cat 5's getting Visas this year (before June 2010) who lodged before 23rd September but didn't have a CO ???

[Guest Gollywobbler]

Gill - do you think there will be any Cat 5's getting Visas this year (before June 2010) who lodged before 23rd September but didn't have a CO ???

 

 

Hi KatyNick

 

It is far too early to say, hon. We have to take the whole situation one day at a time.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[McKlaut]

H McKlaut

 

When did you send your query to Mr Wilden? My guess is that it will take at least 3 weeks from receipt of a question before Mr Wilden will be able to provide any guidance.

 

I know you are worried because your meds are due to expire on 26/02/2010. Are you and your family in a position where you could drop everything else and move to Australia by 26/02/2010? If not, would you be able to make a short validation visit to Australia before 26/02/2010?

 

Cheers

 

Gill

Thanks Gill for the estimated time frame.

 

My family and I can drop everything and move to Australia in a very short time. In fact, we've been living with this agenda for the last year and have few things that relate us to our present place.

[Guest rachbarlow]

 

It is far too early to say, hon. We have to take the whole situation one day at a time.

 

 

 

I think that you are totally right Gill. I have spent ages reading responces on here since your visit on Monday. I think the visit was FAB, the beginning of the catalist needed to get this going, and points highlighted to the powers that be. However, call be cynical, but I cannot help the feeling we are all getting a little ahead of ourselves!!! :err: I don't know I just have a funny feeling. I'm not trying to put a dampener on anything, but I suppose to be the proof will be in the pudding, or the visas awarded!! I'm trying not to get too excited, I suppose after ALL of the dissapointments over the past 3 years I am treading VERY carefully!!!