geordiegirl68 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) It's not about the 'names' of qualifications it's how our UK qualification is assessed against that framework! AQF6 typically 1.5-2 years in length, AQF7 3-4 years in length! In the UK diploma nurses and degree nurses train together, and do the SAME training!! So if you could highlight any part of the AQF7 specification that is not met by the UK DipHE I'd be more than happy to hear your argument. Edited July 17, 2014 by geordiegirl68 error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceridwyn Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) It's not about the 'names' of qualifications it's how our UK qualification is assessed against that framework! AQF6 typically 1.5-2 years in length' date=' AQF7 3-4 years in length! In the UK diploma nurses and degree nurses do the SAME training!! So if you could highlight any part of the AQF7 specification that is not met by the UK DipHE I'd be more than happy to hear your argument.[/quote'] Perhaps not fix on time to do diploma/degree but actually google an Australian Bachelor of nursing and the curriculum you did and see if you can find something different as there was between nursing diploma and Bachlor- more subjects, research/ethics and professional components, 4 subjects a semester 24 all together all at least with lectures and tuts and assignments each valued at 10-12 hours a week for 13 week semester. If you can match up all parts of your education to tbat of a current AU Bachelor degree then you have something tangible to argue.AHPRA and anyone else, as this is how AHPRA are assessing diplomas, not just the airy fairy stuff written in the AQF criteria. Edited July 17, 2014 by ceridwyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiegirl68 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) Not matching up 'solely' on time! Many of us have already looked at this!! Matches up, in fact exceeds Australian degree on many components, such as practice hours, take a look at this might explain it for you!! There is nothing 'airy fairy' about it! Edited July 17, 2014 by geordiegirl68 error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceridwyn Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) Yes, yes, all agrees clinical is less but we are discussing what is for an Australian nursing qual not for a UK.nursing qual. We did 40-50 hours theory a week plus the clinical and that was flat oyt full time. Can you be more specific with what components are covered and hours so you can present that to AHPRA? The above is a chart written in the uk with flags on it stating levels of nursing and words saying degree or diploma means nothing, who wrote it up is it UK AQF? Diploma is a degree the degree of diploma, bachelor's is the degree of bachelor, masters is the degree of masters. Good luck in your travels, hope it everthing you want. Edited July 17, 2014 by ceridwyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiegirl68 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) No, we are not discussing what is required for Oz degree! We are discussing comparisons for both! We do the same training as our degree counterparts, theory and practice hours! Which is why on the above it is listed as one for the UK, unlike any other country! If AHPRA say UK diploma isn't enough to register, they may as well say degree isn't sufficient either! Edited July 17, 2014 by geordiegirl68 error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jac2011 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 As Geordiegirl68 is pointing out, I am a degree registered nurse (well in a few weeks time), the 25% of my course on a diploma have done the same theory and practice hours, the difference in the UK is merely a dissertation (final assignment) and the reason many uk nurses are doing the diploma course is because financially there is more financial assentives from the NHS bursaries/student loans companies which is essential for many mature students that have partners who work, especially if they have children. As a degree level nurse I would not EVER suppose a diploma level nurse was less worthy than me. They have often received far higher grades in assignments (PS we did the same assignments along the way). In fact, what's worse for Australia is my friend moved to Brisbane in December after submitting her AHPRA in October. She is a diploma registered nurse. She has not received registration. She was my mentor last year, and she was one of the most academic and compassionate nurses I have ever had the pleasure to work alongside. Any Australian work force would be lucky to have her. Yet, apparently she is now not good enough. AHPRA have this wrong and they have failed to look at it from the UK nurses perspective. They have blinkers on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petals Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Australia also has diploma nurses and they are never the staff nurses on the wards, they are the ones who do all the work. I know this because I was in hospital and a lengthy conversation with an Aussie Diploma nurse. Its all about degrees these days for most jobs in any of the professions. If a person with a degree applies for a job and a person without one I know which one they are going to take. There are so many graduates coming out of Australian universities now in teaching, nursing, accounting and you name it and they are much cheaper to employ. In fact I am surprised we are still taking people in these professions with the amount of graduates looking for work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilmiss125 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 There were a few differences between degree and diploma were I trained, A&P and exam levels were different, the biggest one however was the research and ethics part (dissertation) in which we had to submit our own research proposal etc etc - and all I can think of is that how much research is such a massive part of healthcare these days, maybe that has something to do with it?? In the majority of places now too, to become a Band 6 or higher now though you have to either be degree trained or working towards, as an essential part of the job spec. That being said...again like jac2011 says and as I have said before, clinically I trained alongside diploma nurses on placement, many of my mentors too were diploma trained, and the majority of my work colleagues were also diploma trained - they taught me everything I know in the most important circumstance...actively on the ward, actively caring for patients, actively having people relying on my knowledge and my actions!!! Apart from small details in training courses I can't understand how AHPRA can say that nurses diploma trained are any less capable or academic than degree trained. We work alongside each other, helping each other, our nursing knowledge and skills ARE EQUAL!! Learning and progressing is the most integral part of transitioning to qualified nurse, degree or diploma, working competently in my job is where I learnt the most, definitely!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NuriootpaSA Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) Maybe it's a payback for this refusal by the NMC in the UK to register an Australian Midwife: "The 12 month Deakin postgrad diploma..at level 7.. Was not deemed acceptable due to 'shortfalls in course length,content of hours and clinical." In the meantime, hospital patients of both countries suffer because of this political argy bargy! What is interesting is that the Aussie Post Grad Diploma is seen by AHPRA as being at Level 7! Edited July 17, 2014 by NuriootpaSA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvu2002 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 All I know is that the 3 years for the diploma were long and hard when I trained, we worked all year bar 3 weeks and even they were reading weeks, the first 2 years where I trained everybody (degree and Dip HE) students all did exactly the same work, it was only the 3rd year that differed slightly, I opted not to do the degree at that time as 1 it was funded and couldn't afford it at the time and 2 a tutor said it was much better to do the degree in the area you wished to specialise in. (Having said that I've not yet done the degree in the area I've specialised in do to home and work commitments) The students coming through now on the degree course always seem to be off uni or placements (meaning time off), they get the same amount of time off as normal uni courses (similar to schools about 3 months) so really not sure how they can be better trained, and I know for a fact if I was sick I'd want a hands on proper nurse to look after me not one with a bit of paper saying they are better than someone else and who doesn't really want to do the nursing aspects of the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NuriootpaSA Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I have it on good authority, ie not from a scammer or suspected scammer, or someone who calls somebody a scammer, that from October this year, Australian nurses, wishing to register with the UK NMC MUST: 1. Pass IELTS at 7.5 2. Undertake an exam in the UK before commencing the registration process. Looks like the UK NMC twigged what AHPRA were up to and reciprocated in kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvu2002 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I have it on good authority, ie not from a scammer or suspected scammer, or someone who calls somebody a scammer, that from October this year, Australian nurses, wishing to register with the UK NMC MUST: 1. Pass IELTS at 7.5 2. Undertake an exam in the UK before commencing the registration process. Looks like the UK NMC twigged what AHPRA were up to and reciprocated in kind. Well i think they should do the ielts, we had to for ANMAC (and wasn't a nice thing to do either) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiegirl68 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) I have it on good authority, ie not from a scammer or suspected scammer, or someone who calls somebody a scammer, that from October this year, Australian nurses, wishing to register with the UK NMC MUST: 1. Pass IELTS at 7.5 2. Undertake an exam in the UK before commencing the registration process. Looks like the UK NMC twigged what AHPRA were up to and reciprocated in kind. Well i think they should do the ielts, we had to for ANMAC (and wasn't a nice thing to do either) Well I've done the ielts, would be more than happy to sit an exam before leaving the UK to prove my credentials to Oz! better than all this stess! Would still be a lot less than we're going through for AHPRA!! Edited July 17, 2014 by geordiegirl68 error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria Garland Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I am feeling entirely exasperated by AHPRA. After receiving an email on Monday telling me that my qualifications have been accepted, my registration finalised and to expect a letter 'shortly' I was informed that AHPRA have requested info via the NMC. I have had an email from my case worker reassuring me it was just info in general about British registrations and also two phone calls to this effect. Due to the ambiguity of it all I asked on twitter and 3 days later (after two of these phone calls and an email from my caseworker) I have been told that the information supplied by my Uni was not sufficient and so they have requested information off the NMC. I am entirely frustrated with this. On every phone call I make I ask if I need to provide any further information and everytime I get a no. Also when they requested this info why wasn't I told? So when I called yesterday (prior to this last email) I was told there was nothing I needed to do and I just had to sit back and wait, but rest assured that now my application had been 'escalated to a manager'. With no explanation why. I'm sorry this has turned into a rant, I just really don't know what to do or think next! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbie Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Barbie, do you mean that you have you had your registration approved under the old framework, but your just waiting to provide the identity documents in person? If so then this should be fine, they can't grant you registration, let you travel and then withhold it surely. Ring them or contact your case worker, or tweet them even just to check. But I shouldn't worry, I think you've been just in the nick of time to get your registration by the sounds of it! Yes i have to present with in a year with a statement of character from NMC... but am just getting worrying that they might flip the coin on me wen am in oz. I would have finsed my top up degree but the time i go there. i will check with aphra again before i set off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NuriootpaSA Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Yes i have to present with in a year with a statement of character from NMC... but am just getting worrying that they might flip the coin on me wen am in oz. I would have finsed my top up degree but the time i go there. i will check with aphra again before i set off. So Barbie, you actually received a Letter of Eligibility from AHPRA - is that what you are saying? If it is, then this sets a new level to their incompetency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NuriootpaSA Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 So Barbie, you actually received a Letter of Eligibility from AHPRA - is that what you are saying? If it is, then this sets a new level to their incompetency. Right, I've read it all again. So they haven't issued an LOE then refused to register on presentation of ID etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sampaulabby Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 I've unwittingly found my way to this page and I am now convinced that I will not get registration with ahpra. We are relocating to Oz in October as my husband has a transfer to the Australian defence force and we have residency visas with 90 days from arrival to complete citizenship. I qualified as a mental health nurse in 1996 therefore I have 18 years experience as a qualified nurse. However academic transcripts are not held for 18 years and I cannot prove the hours completed in my original studies. I have been asked for a statutory declaration which I have posted within the last week, but whenever I raise a question with ahpra regarding their process and the new guidelines a straight answer is never obtained... I have noticed that this is a recurrent theme. I'm concerned that if I do not obtain registration then I will be giving up a career I have pursued for 21 years and more than likely I will return to the uk. I will follow this thread with interest and await a decision from ahpra! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiegirl68 Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I've unwittingly found my way to this page and I am now convinced that I will not get registration with ahpra. We are relocating to Oz in October as my husband has a transfer to the Australian defence force and we have residency visas with 90 days from arrival to complete citizenship. I qualified as a mental health nurse in 1996 therefore I have 18 years experience as a qualified nurse. However academic transcripts are not held for 18 years and I cannot prove the hours completed in my original studies. I have been asked for a statutory declaration which I have posted within the last week, but whenever I raise a question with ahpra regarding their process and the new guidelines a straight answer is never obtained... I have noticed that this is a recurrent theme.I'm concerned that if I do not obtain registration then I will be giving up a career I have pursued for 21 years and more than likely I will return to the uk. I will follow this thread with interest and await a decision from ahpra! Are you sure you can't get academic transcripts? I qualified 1995, and my uni were able to provide all sorts of info! Not that I'm any nearer to getting registered, as AHPRA is just an absolute nightmare! They seem to have brushed experience and skills under the carpet, in favour of the piece of paper you leave uni with! Newly qualified degree nurses are being allowed to register, but those of us with years of experience and diplomas are not! Try to stay positive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maria davies Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I trained 1986-89 before diplomas or degrees. My school of nursing had relocated to a University . After 6 weeks of being passed from department to department going around in circles, I wrote a letter complaining and low and behold a sheet of very faded paper appeared from their archives. It wasn't a full transcript but all my study/ practice hours and placements were on it. Not that it will be any good to me as the new criteria has forgotton about us traditionally trained nurses even though I topped up to a degree . Don't give up, are there any tutors still around who taught you? They may still have a transcript? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sampaulabby Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Hi geordiegirl and Maria, thanks for the advice... The two universities that I have had to contact have been really helpful but due to their records storage policies neither of them has any information available. Both have sent letters to ahpra to this effect, I have also applied to the nmc archives but no information is held there either. I was aware of this in October and asked ahpra for guidance prior to applying but the only advice I was given was to submit an application and wait for a decision. :mad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arbrodin Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Hi Maria, I know it's seems a very pointless exercise, 81 pages ago I started this thread due to the frustration I was having, I am in the same boat as you in terms of training, I started my training in 1989, the hospital had its own school of nursing, no diploma or degree courses in them days. I am also RNLD trained which is an even bigger spanner in the works. although I could not get a transcript from my training school, it disappeared in the 90's, the NMC were able to send the syllabus for my course over. This seemed to be accepted at first.. timescales with AHPRA are amazing, I applied in August 2013, well before the changes were brought in, they held my application back and they are assessing me under the new criteria! other issues with them are that when diploma nurses came out, we were encouraged to do a diploma in an clinical area, so I completed mine in Epilepsy Care, as degree nursing developed, we looked at doing degrees and I completed my MSc in Sleep Medicine with distinction for me which again is another clinical area. APHRA in their wisdom do not think these will be taken into account, as neither say Nurse or Nursing in the title, however, I am on my third or fourth extension now, as I keep pushing and I have got to provide yet a third lot of info on my MSc. I still think this is a pointless exercise, despite 25 years experience in the nhs. I will keep going to the end, but have resigned myself to not being registered and not being able to move to Aus. I have since moved from adult LD to another job I paediatrics, working in mainstream and across LD children's services, I had to do something to pick me up off the floor. My new job is great and given me a new challenge, which moving was all about too! having secured a job which was held open for me for a year, had family so somewhere to live and being ready to go some 12-18 months ago apart from APHRA, To say I am frustrated with it all, is an understatement, so with no diploma nurses being registered us traditional nurses need to jump thro more hurdles!! Paul I trained 1986-89 before diplomas or degrees. My school of nursing had relocated to a University . After 6 weeks of being passed from department to department going around in circles, I wrote a letter complaining and low and behold a sheet of very faded paper appeared from their archives. It wasn't a full transcript but all my study/ practice hours and placements were on it. Not that it will be any good to me as the new criteria has forgotton about us traditionally trained nurses even though I topped up to a degree . Don't give up, are there any tutors still around who taught you? They may still have a transcript? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maria davies Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Hi Arbrodin, I am fighting too to the end! My degree has " nursing" in the title but I doubt that will be sufficient!Ive been in Oz since Feb, and I feel Ive been scammed. I'll leave no stone unturned so watch this space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roscommongirl Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Hi Arbrodin, I am fighting too to the end! My degree has " nursing" in the title but I doubt that will be sufficient!Ive been in Oz since Feb, and I feel Ive been scammed. I'll leave no stone unturned so watch this space. This process is.so upsetting. After receiving 2 letters from my university confirming I have meet the criteria 5 ( midwives) ahpra are no saying these are not good enough If they will not accept documents from a governing body, who will they accept it from?? Are the board meeting on Friday does anybody know for sure?? Anybody got any positive news to keep us all going? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erinaoife Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 This process is.so upsetting. After receiving 2 letters from my university confirming I have meet the criteria 5 ( midwives) ahpra are no saying these are not good enoughIf they will not accept documents from a governing body, who will they accept it from?? Are the board meeting on Friday does anybody know for sure?? Anybody got any positive news to keep us all going? No way?! What are they requesting to support your appliation now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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