Ex-Citizen Permanent Visa?

[Pips]

I read if you are IN Australia when you give up Australian citizenship, you will immediately become a holder of Ex-Citizen Visa (Permanent) without any application.

But the immigration website also states that if you are OUTSIDE Australia, then you will need to "apply for a visa that suits your circumstance"...

Does this mean anyone giving up Australian citizenship while overseas will not become a PR, but need to go through the whole difficult process of PR application, invitation etc.?

Thanks.

[Nemesis]

Yes.

if you are onshore you are given that visa, because itherwise you would instantly be illegally in Australia as soon as you gave up citizenship.

if you are offshore you have to apply for a new visa if you want to enter Australia.

[rammygirl]

Yes either apply for a new visa or for reinstatement of citizenship (often easier) .

Assuming citizenship will be given up because dual citizenship is not possible, but in that case you would be leaving Australia anyway?

[Marisawright]

8 hours ago, Pips said:

I read if you are IN Australia when you give up Australian citizenship, you will immediately become a holder of Ex-Citizen Visa (Permanent) without any application.

But the immigration website also states that if you are OUTSIDE Australia, then you will need to "apply for a visa that suits your circumstance"...

Does this mean anyone giving up Australian citizenship while overseas will not become a PR, but need to go through the whole difficult process of PR application, invitation etc.?

Thanks.

Yes, I'm afraid you do. 

[InnerVoice]

I can't think of any other reason why you would want to give up your Australian citizenship, except to become a citizen of country that doesn't allow dual citizenship (which always seems a bit wrong in my opinion). If you've already been living in the other country for that long that you can become a citizen then you're probably going to be settled there, and not that bothered about losing your Australian citizenship. If you're still living in Australia then it would seem prudent to renounce your Aussie citizenship while you're still here and retain PR. However, it's worth noting that if you only hold Australian citizenship then you can't renounce it because it would make you stateless, so you'd need to acquire citizenship of another country first.

I often wonder how the government a country that doesn't allow dual-citizenship would know about your other citizenships, unless you told them? I've never told the British government I'm an Australian citizen, although I'm guessing they probably know anyway and I'm on a database somewhere!

[paulhand]

13 hours ago, Pips said:

Does this mean anyone giving up Australian citizenship while overseas will not become a PR, but need to go through the whole difficult process of PR application, invitation etc.?

You can apply for an RRV - the requirements are the same as for a former permanent resident. 

[Aeoz]

On 25/09/2023 at 15:11, paulhand said:

You can apply for an RRV - the requirements are the same as for a former permanent resident. 

Question: If I am a holder of Vietnam and Australian citizenship - if I renounce my Australian citizenship, do I automatically get a permanent resident visa on my Vietnamese passport? Assuming I'm onshore when I renounce.

TIA

[BendigoBoy]

Not according to this document from the Department of Home Affairs that was the first result in a Google search from pasting in your question.
https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/form-listing/forms/128.pdf

I'll yield to a Registered Migration Agent who may be able to provide clarity on nuances; however, it looks like you'd get an ex-citizen visa allowing you to remain onshore, but not re-enter.

[paulhand]

On 25/09/2023 at 03:56, InnerVoice said:

I've never told the British government I'm an Australian citizen

Then how have you managed to renew your British passport? It’s a question on the application. 

[Philip]

14 hours ago, paulhand said:

Then how have you managed to renew your British passport? It’s a question on the application. 

I was considering this question. The British passport application only asks for valid foreign passports and defines valid as not having been cancelled (so an expired passport that was not cancelled would seem to count). 

If you are in the UK, and submit your Australian passport for (overseas) renewal, the high commission cancels it immediately. You could then truthfully submit a British passport renewal application declaring you have no foreign passports.

Anecdotally, HMPO appears not to "remember" that you've previously submitted foreign passports as part of UK passport applications.

Also, when using the 1 week Fast Track service at offices other than London and Peterborough, it appears that HMPO staff only photocopy the photo page of your non-British passport in B&W and don't care about the rest; while a regular application by post asks you to photocopy every page in colour.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Philip

[Nemesis]

15 hours ago, paulhand said:

Then how have you managed to renew your British passport? It’s a question on the application. 

Probably the same sin of forgetfulness which strikes many of us at renewal time...........

[Parley]

9 hours ago, Nemesis said:

Probably the same sin of forgetfulness which strikes many of us at renewal time...........

What is the issue.

The UK and Australia don't give a toss if you are a citizen of the other country in addition to their citizenship.

 

[Nemesis]

2 hours ago, Parley said:

What is the issue.

The UK and Australia don't give a toss if you are a citizen of the other country in addition to their citizenship.

 

Hence the forgetfulness! They don't need to know so why tell them?!

[InnerVoice]

On 25/10/2023 at 07:11, Parley said:

What is the issue.

The UK and Australia don't give a toss if you are a citizen of the other country in addition to their citizenship.

 

On 25/10/2023 at 09:12, Nemesis said:

Hence the forgetfulness! They don't need to know so why tell them?!

If they don't give a toss then why do they ask that question when you renew your British passport?

I agree with Nemesis - it's none of their business.

[Parley]

2 hours ago, InnerVoice said:

 

If they don't give a toss then why do they ask that question when you renew your British passport?

I agree with Nemesis - it's none of their business.

So you rather lie on an official form. I would be worried about being listed on a database somewhere as someone who has lied to the government.

They don't care that you are a dual citizen but they are interested in where you have travelled to. My own theory is this started during rise of Isis and they want to find out people who have travelled to dodgy places like Yemen, Syria etc. Hence why they want to see peoples passports, to check what stamps are in the passport.

But I don't get the lying if you have nothing to hide. It is very suspicious to me, and probably to the authorities as well.

[Nemesis]

16 minutes ago, Parley said:

So you rather lie on an official form. I would be worried about being listed on a database somewhere as someone who has lied to the government.

They don't care that you are a dual citizen but they are interested in where you have travelled to. My own theory is this started during rise of Isis and they want to find out people who have travelled to dodgy places like Yemen, Syria etc. Hence why they want to see peoples passports, to check what stamps are in the passport.

But I don't get the lying if you have nothing to hide. It is very suspicious to me, and probably to the authorities as well.

OK, I'll tell you exactty why I never said I had another passport (not that its any of your business but.....)

When I got my first UK passport renewal while living in Oz, many years ago, I was advised (by the post office who then submitted the renewal paperwork) that if I had a passport for Australia or anywhere else I needed to send it to the UK with the application. I had NO form of ID except my passports. No driving licence, and Qld Transport refused me an ID card on the grounds I was "too old". So the thought of spending a couple of months without any official ID, in a country which at the time even wanted ID to post a birthday card with a kiddies badge on it to the UK, was not something I wanted to contemplate. 

And as you say, they don't care I'm a dual citizen, in addition they would not know that I committed the sin of forgetting to send my Aussie passport cos they didn't know it existed. I know exactly why they want they info, national security etc. And when the authorities kick my door down for not sending them a 6 week old new Aussie passport that hadn't even left its own shores, I will plead guilty. Till then, sorry, there are bigger things to worry about. 

[InnerVoice]

21 hours ago, Parley said:

So you rather lie on an official form. I would be worried about being listed on a database somewhere as someone who has lied to the government.

They don't care that you are a dual citizen but they are interested in where you have travelled to. My own theory is this started during rise of Isis and they want to find out people who have travelled to dodgy places like Yemen, Syria etc. Hence why they want to see peoples passports, to check what stamps are in the passport.

But I don't get the lying if you have nothing to hide. It is very suspicious to me, and probably to the authorities as well.

I think you've answered your own question in a roundabout way. Millions of ordinary people travel to 'dodgy places' every year for family and work reasons, and have no connection with any terrorist organisation. The real terrorists use fake documents or enter countries illegally so they can't be traced, like those who went to support ISIS entered Syria via Turkey. They just climbed through holes in the fence.

I don't see why any government needs to ask about dual citizenship unless they don't permit it, which is neither the case with Australia or the UK. What will they start asking next. Whether we have beards and work on Fridays?

At one time I took the view that 'if you've done nothing wrong then you've nothing to fear', but I have a healthy mistrust of governments these days. I don't support their snoopers' charter, which can lead to wrongful accusations and assumed guilt by association.

[BendigoBoy]

39 minutes ago, InnerVoice said:

Whether we have beards and work on Fridays?

I'm more concerned about someone asking if I actually work the other six days of the week as well...