2023 Cost of Living Comparison

[FirstWorldProblems]

7 hours ago, InnerVoice said:

Prior to covid I was toying with the idea of the returning to the UK for a few years as a retirement option because of the lower cost of living, but that has well and truly gone out the window!

That's exactly the hypothesis I had in mind when starting this thread.  Is it still cheaper in the UK?   And this is really important for many people considering emigration and weighing up the pro's and con's.  From the things we've compared so far it would seem that it is not, but there are some other costs we haven't compared yet that (historically) I've noted are much higher in Australia. 

• Insurance was always one that seemed to be at least twice the price
• Healthcare 
• Toll roads can be a daily cost for some (if for example you live in the western suburbs of Sydney. The quick route into the CBD is 3 tolls and about $25 each way
• .....and of course the price of a home.  Unless you are coming from London, that's surely the biggest hit to the wallet.  Moving from Leamington to Sydney suburbs its going to be 2-2.5X for a comparable house.   

Edited August 13, 2023 by FirstWorldProblems

[Cheery Thistle]

10 hours ago, InnerVoice said:

I noticed you didn't include your water - how much do you pay for that?

We don’t have a separate water charge. It’s in the council tax. Not sure if that’s a Scottish thing or not. I think it’s itemised within it so I could check what proportion of the C tax is water. 

[FirstWorldProblems]

8 hours ago, Parley said:

£4500 a month sounds a lot to be spending on bills for a family.

There's a fair bit of discretionary spend in that £1500 or so of "general shopping".  I'm sure we could all cope just fine spending much less than that.  

I'm not remotely suggesting that our spend is typical of average - I'm aware that we are financially fortunate.  But who is "average"?  I think it's helpful to have a range of budgets to compare against

[Cheery Thistle]

2 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

That's exactly the hypothesis I had in mind when starting this thread.  Is it still cheaper in the UK?   From the things we've compared so far it would seem that it is not, but there are some other costs we haven't compared yet that (historically) I've noted are much higher in Australia. 

• Insurance was always one that seemed to be at least twice the price
• Healthcare 
• Toll roads can be a daily cost for some (if for example you live in the western suburbs of Sydney. The quick route into the CBD is 3 tolls and about $25 each way

No tolls in Scotland but our roads are awful. 
We own multiple properties and vehicles so have a lot of insurances - every single one has gone up at least 25% this year (except BUPA). 
Healthcare we don’t really ‘pay’ for outside the NI, but I understand our NI is quite a bit higher than the Medicare levy? We pay for dentist and hygienist, no prescription charges in Scotland. 
Hubby needed a hip resurfacing in 2021. We were told it was at least a years wait to see a consultant and because of his age (40’s) they wouldn’t operate anyway. He couldn’t walk and had a physical job. So we went private and paid £14k for hip resurfacing. So maybe healthcare isn’t cheaper after all!

[Cheery Thistle]

7 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

There's a fair bit of discretionary spend in that £1500 or so of "general shopping".  I'm sure we could all cope just fine spending much less than that.  

I'm not remotely suggesting that our spend is typical of average - I'm aware that we are financially fortunate.  But who is "average"?  I think it's helpful to have a range of budgets to compare against

I agree. I don’t think we’re that average either, we know many far worse off and a few better off. But, our salaries are not that much higher than the average. To be honest I’ve no idea how anyone on less than £30k a year is even surviving in the UK just now. 

[Marisawright]

19 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

What do you have to do to fix them?   

I was puzzling over this just yesterday after listening to not less than 3 phone calls with brother-in-laws complaining about how cold they were in the mornings.  Is it not possible to build houses that retain heat in the winter and don't absorb in the summer?

Insulation.   Old Australian homes often have none.  Even some newer homes have very little.  Also, because it's cold for only a few months each year, most people never get around to installing a proper heating system.  You know what it's like, each year it starts getting cold and you think, "I really need to do something about this", then by the time you've got around to it, it's warming up again.  

[FirstWorldProblems]

2 minutes ago, Cheery Thistle said:

No tolls in Scotland but our roads are awful. 
We own multiple properties and vehicles so have a lot of insurances - every single one has gone up at least 25% this year (except BUPA). 
Healthcare we don’t really ‘pay’ for outside the NI, but I understand our NI is quite a bit higher than the Medicare levy? We pay for dentist and hygienist, no prescription charges in Scotland. 
Hubby needed a hip resurfacing in 2021. We were told it was at least a years wait to see a consultant and because of his age (40’s) they wouldn’t operate anyway. He couldn’t walk and had a physical job. So we went private and paid £14k for hip resurfacing. So maybe healthcare isn’t cheaper after all!

Afraid so.  Access to care issues in the NHS are a real challenge.   My companies health insurance have written to us advising that our use has increased by 30% in the last year.......

[Cheery Thistle]

10 hours ago, InnerVoice said:

Those comparisons would seem about right, especially for rent. Edinburgh v Sydney seems a fair comparison. My daughter rents a 2-bedroom semi for £750/month, so $1,500 for sake of argument. You won't rent anything hear in Cairns much under $500/week, so about $2,000/month - so it's a third more expensive here. I'd say where she lives in the UK and Cairns are comparable in terms of the provinciality.

A 2 bed flat in Edinburghs outskirts will set you back £1200-1300 a month (if you can get one). I rented one of ours out in Edinburgh west 2 months ago and within 24 hours I had over 100 enquiries. It was literally overwhelming! 
I guess it’s the overall relativity to salaries that could be the missing piece of the puzzle here. 
Had a quick look at Numbeo and some of the prices seemed not bad. I’d say the drinking out prices and transport was a bit low. No council tax either. A couple of the comments were interesting too. 

[InnerVoice]

19 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

What do you have to do to fix them?   

I was puzzling over this just yesterday after listening to not less than 3 phone calls with brother-in-laws complaining about how cold they were in the mornings.  Is it not possible to build houses that retain heat in the winter and don't absorb in the summer?

As Toots said, most of the buildings here are done on the cheap and have little to no insulation. That's fine if you live in the warmer regions of Australia as it's easier to keep the property cool during summer, and winter requires minimal heating.

The problem is that if you heavily insulate your home so it's warmer during winter, then in summer it'll turn into a sweatbox. Consider how hot UK houses become during that 3 days of real summer you have each year. You'll be either cranking up the air-con or sitting under a fan in your underwear, which is never a good look. In Cairns we have air-con everywhere - it'd be rude not to - but down south they they tend to have one or two units for the whole property, or none at all. Again, it comes down to cost. Electricity has never been cheap in Australia so most people have a resistance to installing air-con.

If I have one piece of advice then avoid buying one of these uber-cool cube homes with ridiculously high ceilings, that are all the rage. Unless you live in the tropics you'll be heating it for at least 6 months of the year at great expense.

[Cheery Thistle]

9 minutes ago, InnerVoice said:

avoid buying one of these uber-cool cube homes with ridiculously high ceilings,

I have yet to see anything advertised for sale that remotely resembles anything ‘Uber cool’. Everything has a distinctly 70’s vibe haha! Do Aussies just not do up their homes? 

[Toots]

5 minutes ago, InnerVoice said:

As Toots said, most of the buildings here are done on the cheap and have little to no insulation. That's fine if you live in the warmer regions of Australia as it's easier to keep the property cool during summer, and winter requires minimal heating.

The problem is that if you heavily insulate your home so it's warmer during winter, then in summer it'll turn into a sweatbox. Consider how hot UK houses become during that 3 days of real summer you have each year. You'll be either cranking up the air-con or sitting under a fan in your underwear, which is never a good look. In Cairns we have air-con everywhere - it'd be rude not to - but down south they they tend to have one or two units for the whole property, or none at all. Again, it comes down to cost. Electricity has never been cheap in Australia so most people have a resistance to installing air-con.

If I have one piece of advice then avoid buying one of these uber-cool cube homes with ridiculously high ceilings, that are all the rage. Unless you live in the tropics you'll be heating it for at least 6 months of the year at great expense.

There are plenty of houses here in Tasmania that have central heating/underfloor heating but it's by far best to have it put in when you are building.  We don't have central heating but have a wood burner which when it's going full blast can heat the whole house when all the internal doors are open.  The house never feels cold plus husband sealed all draughts and we have double glazing.  We don't need air-con during summer at all where we live as we get a cooling breeze from the northwest so open all the doors and windows which keeps everything comfortable on warmer days.

[InnerVoice]

4 minutes ago, Cheery Thistle said:

I have yet to see anything advertised for sale that remotely resembles anything ‘Uber cool’. Everything has a distinctly 70’s vibe haha! Do Aussies just not do up their homes? 

Really? Well, "you haven't been paying attention."

That's a joke you'll only get after you join the club! Cubes are a thing over here...

 

[Marisawright]

5 minutes ago, Toots said:

There are plenty of houses here in Tasmania that have central heating/underfloor heating

...but that kinda proves my point.  In much of mainland Australia, it's not cold for long enough to galvanise people into installing a decent heating system.  In Tassie it is.

[FirstWorldProblems]

16 minutes ago, Cheery Thistle said:

I have yet to see anything advertised for sale that remotely resembles anything ‘Uber cool’. Everything has a distinctly 70’s vibe haha! Do Aussies just not do up their homes? 

Oh yes. They definitely do!   I’m only familiar with Sydney but you could literally pick any street in the metropolis on Google Street View and you’ll see a vast array of different styles.  That’s something I particularly prefer there over here in the U.K. where most houses on every street tend to look the same. 

[Marisawright]

42 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

Oh yes. They definitely do!   I’m only familiar with Sydney but you could literally pick any street in the metropolis on Google Street View and you’ll see a vast array of different styles.  That’s something I particularly prefer there over here in the U.K. where most houses on every street tend to look the same. 

However if you go to some of the McMansion suburbs, they can be very cookie-cutter.

[altymatt]

50 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

...but that kinda proves my point.  In much of mainland Australia, it's not cold for long enough to galvanise people into installing a decent heating system.  In Tassie it is.

I don't understand why solar panels are so popular when the same owners don't bother to fix their insulation first. You run heating to get up to a comfortable temperature, but as soon as it goes off the heat escapes through the crap walls and windows.

We moved house a year ago and there was no loft insulation except for some thin sarking below the roof. A few hundred dollars of insulation batts made the place warmer and quieter for relatively little effort.

[Cheery Thistle]

55 minutes ago, InnerVoice said:

Really? Well, "you haven't been paying attention."

That's a joke you'll only get after you join the club! Cubes are a thing over here...

 

Grim. Look like shipping containers!! 

[Cheery Thistle]

45 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

Oh yes. They definitely do!   I’m only familiar with Sydney but you could literally pick any street in the metropolis on Google Street View and you’ll see a vast array of different styles.  That’s something I particularly prefer there over here in the U.K. where most houses on every street tend to look the same. 

Maybe our budget isn’t high enough lol. 
 

 

 

[Tulip1]

40 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

However if you go to some of the McMansion suburbs, they can be very cookie-cutter.

Love your ‘cookie-cutter’ description. I’ve never heard that before. 

[Toots]

There are some lovely old character houses in our area of town.  This one is my favourite though far too big for the two of us and I wouldn't want the cost of heating the whole thing during our winters.  It used to have a massive garden but houses have since been built on it and made into a sort of cul-de-sac.

 

[Cheery Thistle]

28 minutes ago, Toots said:

There are some lovely old character houses in our area of town.  This one is my favourite though far too big for the two of us and I wouldn't want the cost of heating the whole thing during our winters.  It used to have a massive garden but houses have since been built on it and made into a sort of cul-de-sac.

 

That’s very pretty. We are in a modern-ish house in Scotland and have probably resigned myself to a modern-ish house when we move. Another wet and chilly dog walk today. Scottish summer! 

[InnerVoice]

12 hours ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

Oh yes. They definitely do!   I’m only familiar with Sydney but you could literally pick any street in the metropolis on Google Street View and you’ll see a vast array of different styles.  That’s something I particularly prefer there over here in the U.K. where most houses on every street tend to look the same. 

You won't say that when your next-door-neighbour knocks down their traditional house and replaces it with a two-storey monstrosity, taking away your views and privacy!

Planning permission here is a joke. I'd always make a point of checking with the council how high they can go up in any area where I bought property.

[FirstWorldProblems]

10 minutes ago, InnerVoice said:

You won't say that when your next-door-neighbour knocks down their traditional house and replaces it with a two-storey monstrosity, taking away your views and privacy!

Planning permission here is a joke. I'd always make a point of checking with the council how high they can go up in any area where I bought property.

That’s good advice. 

[rammygirl]

13 hours ago, InnerVoice said:

As Toots said, most of the buildings here are done on the cheap and have little to no insulation. That's fine if you live in the warmer regions of Australia as it's easier to keep the property cool during summer, and winter requires minimal heating.

The problem is that if you heavily insulate your home so it's warmer during winter, then in summer it'll turn into a sweatbox. Consider how hot UK houses become during that 3 days of real summer you have each year. You'll be either cranking up the air-con or sitting under a fan in your underwear, which is never a good look. In Cairns we have air-con everywhere - it'd be rude not to - but down south they they tend to have one or two units for the whole property, or none at all. Again, it comes down to cost. Electricity has never been cheap in Australia so most people have a resistance to installing air-con.

If I have one piece of advice then avoid buying one of these uber-cool cube homes with ridiculously high ceilings, that are all the rage. Unless you live in the tropics you'll be heating it for at least 6 months of the year at great expense.

Not exactly true. Good insulation can keep heat out of your home in summer, that and good shading can allow sun in in winter and keep it out in summer. Our sons rental is two storey and upstairs is very hot in summer as the sun simply boils it as pitiful insulation.

English houses have more carpet traditionally and little overhang on roof.  If it gets hot it stays hot, so closing curtains and letting in cool air at night is important. 

[Blue Flu]

1 hour ago, InnerVoice said:

You won't say that when your next-door-neighbour knocks down their traditional house and replaces it with a two-storey monstrosity, taking away your views and privacy!

Planning permission here is a joke. I'd always make a point of checking with the council how high they can go up in any area where I bought property.

How true. Whole street scapes are being 'disfigured' by out of control building codes creating subversive ascetics. In our inner city area, there are large houses on small blocks (through sub division) towering over older houses, flats being built  of dubious quality, as the race towards medium density  intensifies.