2023 Cost of Living Comparison

[FirstWorldProblems]

@Cheery Thistle, @BendigoBoyand @InnerVoice started up a cost of living comparison here between Scotland, Victoria and Cairns which I thought was very useful, but might get lost as it's part of a different topic.

The higher cost of living in Australia has always been on my mind as I plan my family's migration, and this comparison got me thinking about whether or not the difference is still as large now that the UK has experienced sustained high inflation.  I did some spending analysis in 2018 as part of my retirement planning, so I've just compared that to today:

UK 2018 vs UK 2023.  Avg monthly

Family of 5, youngest is 15.  Warwickshire

• £326 vs £266 (123%) Council tax
• £1020 vs £798 (128%) Groceries
• £661 vs £331 (200%) Eating out [it's definitely more expensive, but not twice as much, suspect we are doing it more now]
• £184 vs £161 (114%) Fuel [much less business miles in 2023]
• £816 vs £673 (121%) House bills [inc. Sky, Netflix]
• £1,464 vs £920 (158%) General shopping [clothes etc]

I've excluded car, mortgage, entertainment, house repairs, holidays, savings etc as that's all very different for everyone and hasn't changed all that much over the comparison years.   Clearly there's quite a bit of discretionary spend in our monthly outgoings that could be reduced if we wanted.

 

On 09/08/2023 at 11:55, Cheery Thistle said:

 

Ours are roughly as follows, monthly: 

• Mortgage (4 bed 2 bath big garden in central Scotland in between Edinburgh and Glasgow) - £750 will be paid off in 10 years I will be 53. 
• Council Tax - £200
• Food , dog food, house supplies - £600 
• Gas and Electricity - £340 
• Broadband - £40
• Mobile Phones £100 (paid through business) 
• Car - paid off but loan would be £300 a month if I had one 
• Fuel, Insurance for Car, road tax - £300 at least maybe more. I work from home and don’t do many miles. 
• kids activities - £200ish 
• Streaming Services £30 
• House Insurance - £60
• Family gym/swim membership - £60 (this is very cheap) 
• Death and Critical Illness cover - £110 
• Bupa - £95 
• Fortnightly cleaner (hey, I work full time and help run 2 small businesses lol) £ 80 

The above is really just the necessities. Doesn’t include leisure or travel. We have had to cut back a lot on leisure, we hardly eat out at all any more. Our one splurge is travel as I can’t cope with the great greyness here and need to escape it as often as I can! 

 

 

 

On 08/08/2023 at 02:10, BendigoBoy said:

So, on a monthly basis, breaking it all down over the year:

Council rates: $150
Insurance (inc health insurance): $550
Internet & Phone: $125
Streaming subscriptions: $40
Supermarket: $400
Car Rego & Fuel: $100
Gas: $60
Water: $100
Bunnings Supplies for the garden: $200

We grow about 80% of our fruit in the garden, and about 40% of our veg

The solar takes care of all of our heating and power requirements.

Round it up to the next hundred and you're looking at around $1800 a month for the two of us.  

 

 

7 hours ago, InnerVoice said:

 

here are our monthly expenses (where comparable), based on the current exchange rate of £1 = AUD $1.95.

• Mortgage (4 bed 2 bath Cairns) - $1607 / £824, but will increase to around $2,300 next July when fixed interest rate ends. 
• Council Tax / Rates - $180 / £92
• Electricity - $0 (if averaged over the year)
• Water - $100 / £51
• Broadband Internet - $65 / £33
• Mobile Phones (SIM only plan x 2) - $15 / £8 
• Food and household supplies (no booze) - $1,000 / £513
• Home repairs and garden upkeep - $150 / £77
• Clothes, shoes and other miscellaneous expenses - $120 / £61
• Car depreciation (purchased 5 years ago for $6,000) - $100 / £51
• Car Rego, Insurance (fully comp), Maintenance - $150 / £77
• Fuel (based on 8,000km/year) - $110 / £56 
• Netflix - $11 / £6 
• House Insurance - $107 / £55
• Gym membership - $65 / £33
• Dentist - $20 / £10
• Death and Critical Illness cover - N/A
• Private Healthcare - N/A

Monthly total outgoings - $3,700 / £1,900

 

 

 

[Cheery Thistle]

22 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

@Cheery Thistle, @BendigoBoyand @InnerVoice started up a cost of living comparison here between Scotland, Victoria and Cairns which I thought was very useful, but might get lost as it's part of a different topic.

The higher cost of living in Australia has always been on my mind as I plan my family's migration, and this comparison got me thinking about whether or not the difference is still as large now that the UK has experienced sustained high inflation.  I did some spending analysis in 2018 as part of my retirement planning, so I've just compared that to today:

UK 2018 vs UK 2023.  Avg monthly

Family of 5, youngest is 15.  Warwickshire

• £326 vs £266 (123%) Council tax
• £1020 vs £798 (128%) Groceries
• £661 vs £331 (200%) Eating out [it's definitely more expensive, but not twice as much, suspect we are doing it more now]
• £184 vs £161 (114%) Fuel [much less business miles in 2023]
• £816 vs £673 (121%) House bills [inc. Sky, Netflix]
• £1,464 vs £920 (158%) General shopping [clothes etc]

I've excluded car, mortgage, entertainment, house repairs, holidays, savings etc as that's all very different for everyone and hasn't changed all that much over the comparison years.   Clearly there's quite a bit of discretionary spend in our monthly outgoings that could be reduced if we wanted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You didn’t put in gas and electricity. Or is that in household bills? I wonder if there’s actually an accurate source of info other than all of our anecdotal evidence. 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Cheery Thistle

[Cheery Thistle]

Also it’s nice to see someone posting what I would say is a realistic amount, especially for food. These people who post that they’re feeding their family of 5 for £50 a week. What are they eating, super noodles? 

[FirstWorldProblems]

1 hour ago, Cheery Thistle said:

You didn’t put in gas and electricity. Or is that in household bills? I wonder if there’s actually an accurate source of info other than all of our anecdotal evidence. 

It is included.  I can break that section down more when I get 10 mins. 
 

power is £374 a month 

 

 

[Cheery Thistle]

Definitely making me feel better seeing someone else being honest and saying what they are really paying. I had someone tell me they were paying £60 a month for gas and electric (family of 4). They must be freezing! Our standing charge is not far off that! 

[FirstWorldProblems]

1 hour ago, Cheery Thistle said:

Definitely making me feel better seeing someone else being honest and saying what they are really paying. I had someone tell me they were paying £60 a month for gas and electric (family of 4). They must be freezing! Our standing charge is not far off that! 

Some people have no choice unfortunately.   But I also know people who have the choice and elect to  be uncomfortable in their own homes.  To each their own.

My SIL is visiting from the western suburbs of Sydney where 4 of them live in a 3 bed semi.   Of bills she can remember off the top of her head:

• Gas $64 a qtr
• Electric $370 qtr
• Water $300 qtr
• Council rates $422 qtr

 

[FirstWorldProblems]

3 hours ago, Cheery Thistle said:

 I wonder if there’s actually an accurate source of info other than all of our anecdotal evidence. 

Numbeo.com pops up a lot.  It seems comprehensive in the depth of it's content and the data is crowdsourced from consumers.  Of course we all have different lifestyles so it can't possibly be accurate for everyone.  

Cost of Living Comparison Between Sydney, Australia And Edinburgh, United Kingdom (numbeo.com)

[Cheery Thistle]

37 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

Numbeo.com pops up a lot.  It seems comprehensive in the depth of it's content and the data is crowdsourced from consumers.  Of course we all have different lifestyles so it can't possibly be accurate for everyone.  

Cost of Living Comparison Between Sydney, Australia And Edinburgh, United Kingdom (numbeo.com)

When I look at Numbeo none of the prices seem right! 

[Cheery Thistle]

50 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

Some people have no choice unfortunately.   But I also know people who have the choice and elect to  be uncomfortable in their own homes.  To each their own.

My SIL is visiting from the western suburbs of Sydney where 4 of them live in a 3 bed semi.   Of bills she can remember off the top of her head:

• Gas $64 a qtr
• Electric $370 qtr
• Water $300 qtr
• Council rates $422 qtr

 

Oh these people have a choice! Believe me. 

[InnerVoice]

1 hour ago, Cheery Thistle said:

When I look at Numbeo none of the prices seem right! 

Then create an account and update them. The site relies on user data. Personally I think it's a great site, but I'd agree that some of the prices aren't right (mostly too low).

[InnerVoice]

1 hour ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

Numbeo.com pops up a lot.  It seems comprehensive in the depth of it's content and the data is crowdsourced from consumers.  Of course we all have different lifestyles so it can't possibly be accurate for everyone.  

Cost of Living Comparison Between Sydney, Australia And Edinburgh, United Kingdom (numbeo.com)

Those comparisons would seem about right, especially for rent. Edinburgh v Sydney seems a fair comparison. My daughter rents a 2-bedroom semi for £750/month, so $1,500 for sake of argument. You won't rent anything hear in Cairns much under $500/week, so about $2,000/month - so it's a third more expensive here. I'd say where she lives in the UK and Cairns are comparable in terms of the provinciality.

[InnerVoice]

6 hours ago, Cheery Thistle said:

You didn’t put in gas and electricity. Or is that in household bills? I wonder if there’s actually an accurate source of info other than all of our anecdotal evidence. 

I noticed you didn't include your water - how much do you pay for that?

[FirstWorldProblems]

13 minutes ago, InnerVoice said:

I noticed you didn't include your water - how much do you pay for that?

Water has doubled since my 2018 analysis.  Almost exactly £1000 a year now. 
 

 

[Toots]

4 hours ago, Cheery Thistle said:

Definitely making me feel better seeing someone else being honest and saying what they are really paying. I had someone tell me they were paying £60 a month for gas and electric (family of 4). They must be freezing! Our standing charge is not far off that! 

I don't think houses here are built to a decent standard and loads of migrants (usually from the UK) often state on this forum that they are freezing during winter.  They wouldn't put up with being cold in the UK so I've never understood why they don't heat their houses here.  We have always 'fixed' our houses so we are comfortable no matter what the weather is like.  It's not that hard to do.  No use moaning about it.  Fix it.

 

[Parley]

7 hours ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

@Cheery Thistle, @BendigoBoyand @InnerVoice started up a cost of living comparison here between Scotland, Victoria and Cairns which I thought was very useful, but might get lost as it's part of a different topic.

The higher cost of living in Australia has always been on my mind as I plan my family's migration, and this comparison got me thinking about whether or not the difference is still as large now that the UK has experienced sustained high inflation.  I did some spending analysis in 2018 as part of my retirement planning, so I've just compared that to today:

UK 2018 vs UK 2023.  Avg monthly

Family of 5, youngest is 15.  Warwickshire

• £326 vs £266 (123%) Council tax
• £1020 vs £798 (128%) Groceries
• £661 vs £331 (200%) Eating out [it's definitely more expensive, but not twice as much, suspect we are doing it more now]
• £184 vs £161 (114%) Fuel [much less business miles in 2023]
• £816 vs £673 (121%) House bills [inc. Sky, Netflix]
• £1,464 vs £920 (158%) General shopping [clothes etc]

 

So all the prices went down? That is remarkable.

£4500 a month sounds a lot to be spending on bills for a family.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Parley

[InnerVoice]

5 minutes ago, Parley said:

So all the prices went down? That is remarkable.

£4500 a month sounds a lot to be spending on bills for a family.

No, they've all gone up. The first figure is what FWP is paying now, the second figure is from 2018.

[Parley]

1 minute ago, InnerVoice said:

No, they've all gone up. The first figure is what FWP is paying now, the second figure is from 2018.

Oh ok.

He should have written this as the heading then. An IT worker too.

UK 2023 vs UK 2018.  Avg monthly

Edited August 12, 2023 by Parley

[InnerVoice]

43 minutes ago, Toots said:

I don't think houses here are built to a decent standard and loads of migrants (usually from the UK) often state on this forum that they are freezing during winter.  They wouldn't put up with being cold in the UK so I've never understood why they don't heat their houses here.  We have always 'fixed' our houses so we are comfortable no matter what the weather is like.  It's not that hard to do.  No use moaning about it.  Fix it.

I think a lot of Poms migrate at the start of the British winter or in the New Year, so arrive at the height of summer. It's usually boiling at that time of year so they can't ever imagine it getting cold. I remember my first winter in Sydney, I did the same. It got to May and people were looking at me peculiarly because I was still in shorts, and when June arrived I thought blimey - it's probably time to dig the jeans out!

Obviously it's shorts and T-shirts all year round in Cairns and when I lived in Brisbane it was too, although I used to put tracky-bottoms on in the evening. In terms of heating I only ever had a little panel heater, but it was cold in the mornings when you got up. I think traditional Queensland houses would be hard to 'fix' in terms of heating because they are designed to stay cool, which is the main challenge we face up here.

[Toots]

31 minutes ago, InnerVoice said:

I think a lot of Poms migrate at the start of the British winter or in the New Year, so arrive at the height of summer. It's usually boiling at that time of year so they can't ever imagine it getting cold. I remember my first winter in Sydney, I did the same. It got to May and people were looking at me peculiarly because I was still in shorts, and when June arrived I thought blimey - it's probably time to dig the jeans out!

Obviously it's shorts and T-shirts all year round in Cairns and when I lived in Brisbane it was too, although I used to put tracky-bottoms on in the evening. In terms of heating I only ever had a little panel heater, but it was cold in the mornings when you got up. I think traditional Queensland houses would be hard to 'fix' in terms of heating because they are designed to stay cool, which is the main challenge we face up here.

Yes, the Qld climate is sub-tropical so your houses are built accordingly.  I watch new houses being built here and you get what you pay for.  Some houses seem to be slapped up and others are definitely far better built  ..........  loads of insulation, double glazing, underfloor heating etc.  All that comes at a cost  ..........  a much greater cost.  

I bet there are some places inland in Qld where it gets cold during winter.  We never had frost where we lived in Sydney but in the western suburbs of Sydney they have heavy frosts during winter and stinking heat in the summer.  Different areas of Sydney definitely have different temps.  That's another thing new migrants aren't aware of.

[Blue Flu]

2 hours ago, InnerVoice said:

I noticed you didn't include your water - how much do you pay for that?

Here in Perth we pay around $230 every two months from memory. A substantial increase over recent years. 

[Toots]

2 minutes ago, Blue Flu said:

Here in Perth we pay around $230 every two months from memory. A substantial increase over recent years. 

Our water rates in Devonport are $270 every quarter.

[InnerVoice]

8 hours ago, Cheery Thistle said:

I wonder if there’s actually an accurate source of info other than all of our anecdotal evidence. 

Even though our bills for a two-person household are going to be lower than for a family there are certain costs that will still be comparable, so I think it's really good to make a comparison. If I've one criticism of Poms who've lived here for a long time it's that they tend to look at the UK through rose-tinted spectacles in terms of culture and living standards, although nothing has changed in the 20-30 years since they left. Everyone I know is saying the UK has become a lot more expensive in the last 5 years for just about everything (which coincidentally was when I was last there), so they can't all be wrong. I knew that energy bills had gone through the roof, but I hadn't realized that so many other costs had done so too.

Prior to covid I was toying with the idea of the returning to the UK for a few years as a retirement option because of the lower cost of living, but that has well and truly gone out the window!

[InnerVoice]

39 minutes ago, Toots said:

I bet there are some places inland in Qld where it gets cold during winter.  We never had frost where we lived in Sydney but in the western suburbs of Sydney they have heavy frosts during winter and stinking heat in the summer.  Different areas of Sydney definitely have different temps.  That's another thing new migrants aren't aware of.

That would be Stanthorpe! It's well inland on the NSW border and about 800m above sea-level. Temperatures as low as -10C have been recorded, and it snows every few years.

Edited August 13, 2023 by InnerVoice

[Marisawright]

6 minutes ago, InnerVoice said:

Even though our bills for a two-person household are going to be lower than for a family there are certain costs that will still be comparable, so I think it's really good to make a comparison...

Prior to covid I was toying with the idea of the returning to the UK for a few years as a retirement option because of the lower cost of living, but that has well and truly gone out the window!

The trouble is that there are so many variables.   I read lots of comparisons between Oz and UK before we went back in 2015.   Our experience, for the year we were there, was that our expenditure was almost identical (not counting holidays).    Some things were higher, some things were lower but it all more-or-less balanced out. That wasn't what we expected.

[FirstWorldProblems]

9 hours ago, Toots said:

I don't think houses here are built to a decent standard and loads of migrants (usually from the UK) often state on this forum that they are freezing during winter.  They wouldn't put up with being cold in the UK so I've never understood why they don't heat their houses here.  We have always 'fixed' our houses so we are comfortable no matter what the weather is like.  It's not that hard to do.  No use moaning about it.  Fix it.

 

What do you have to do to fix them?   

I was puzzling over this just yesterday after listening to not less than 3 phone calls with brother-in-laws complaining about how cold they were in the mornings.  Is it not possible to build houses that retain heat in the winter and don't absorb in the summer?