Flights to UK now

[Parley]

10 hours ago, Loopylu said:

From my recent experience of entering the UK by plane on 17 March, you cannot get in without registering where you will be isolating for 10 days and paying for 2 Covid tests to be taken on Days 2 and 8. I spent my 10 days holed up in my parents house not seeing anyone or going anywhere....

I wonder why its only 10 days in the UK when it is 14 days in Australia.

[MacGyver]

2 hours ago, Parley said:

I wonder why its only 10 days in the UK when it is 14 days in Australia.

Particularly interesting when you consider Australia’s experiences whereby large numbers did not test positive for Covid until day 11 (and beyond) of quarantine. All those cases would have gone home to infect family members under the 10 day quarantine system.

[Wanderer Returns]

13 hours ago, Loopylu said:

From my recent experience of entering the UK by plane on 17 March, you cannot get in without registering where you will be isolating for 10 days and paying for 2 Covid tests to be taken on Days 2 and 8. I spent my 10 days holed up in my parents house not seeing anyone or going anywhere....

I'm surprised this was necessary with your arriving from Australia - I thought no quarantine was necessary if you arrived in the UK from a very low risk country?

[newjez]

13 minutes ago, Wanderer Returns said:

I'm surprised this was necessary with your arriving from Australia - I thought no quarantine was necessary if you arrived in the UK from a very low risk country?

Are transit countries counted? Qatar and UAE are both on the red list.

[Wanderer Returns]

45 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

Particularly interesting when you consider Australia’s experiences whereby large numbers did not test positive for Covid until day 11 (and beyond) of quarantine. All those cases would have gone home to infect family members under the 10 day quarantine system.

The median incubation period of COVID-19 is 5–6 days, ranging from 1 to 14 days. McAloon C, Collins Á, Hunt K, Barber A, Byrne AW, Butler F et al. Incubation period of COVID-19: a rapid systematic review and meta-analysis of observational research. BMJ Open. 2020;10(8). doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmjopen-2020-039652.

By this logic, if you test people at Day 3 and then at Day 11, as they do in Australian quarantine, more people will test positive at Day 11. It doesn't mean that it takes most people 11 days to develop symptoms. They've worked this out in the UK and reduced the quarantine time to 10 days, so that people who are feeling well can get 4 days of their life back. You're also expected to continue quarantining beyond the 10 days if you've developed symptoms in that time. I'd imagine that the UK's covid policy is now based around control than containment, given the situation over there.

What I don't follow is why the Australian government has decided the 'safe distance' is 1.5m, whereas the rest of world has settled for 2m. It's not as though we're short of space over here! 

[MacGyver]

1 hour ago, Wanderer Returns said:

The median incubation period of COVID-19 is 5–6 days, ranging from 1 to 14 days. McAloon C, Collins Á, Hunt K, Barber A, Byrne AW, Butler F et al. Incubation period of COVID-19: a rapid systematic review and meta-analysis of observational research. BMJ Open. 2020;10(8). doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmjopen-2020-039652.

By this logic, if you test people at Day 3 and then at Day 11, as they do in Australian quarantine, more people will test positive at Day 11. It doesn't mean that it takes most people 11 days to develop symptoms. They've worked this out in the UK and reduced the quarantine time to 10 days, so that people who are feeling well can get 4 days of their life back. You're also expected to continue quarantining beyond the 10 days if you've developed symptoms in that time. I'd imagine that the UK's covid policy is now based around control than containment, given the situation over there.

What I don't follow is why the Australian government has decided the 'safe distance' is 1.5m, whereas the rest of world has settled for 2m. It's not as though we're short of space over here! 

The research references 5% of cases developing symptoms between days 10 and 14 (rounding up/down). I wonder if this is why Australia has gone with the 14 day approach, to match their pursuit of containment rather than control that you mentioned?

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Wanderer Returns said:

The median incubation period of COVID-19 is 5–6 days, ranging from 1 to 14 days. McAloon C, Collins Á, Hunt K, Barber A, Byrne AW, Butler F et al. Incubation period of COVID-19: a rapid systematic review and meta-analysis of observational research. BMJ Open. 2020;10(8). doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmjopen-2020-039652.

It makes sense, then. 

If the incubation period ranges from 1 to 14 days, and you let people leave at 11 days, then you're going to catch most cases.  If all you're trying to do is avoid overwhelming the health system, that works.  And that's all the UK has ever attempted to do.

But if you're going for eradication, then that doesnt work - because the 5% of people who get sick between 11 and 14 days are a risk.  Though Australia has always claimed it's only trying to suppress the virus, in practice we've been going for eradication.  

Edited April 3, 2021 by Marisawright

[Parley]

Every infectioous person you let out of quarantine early could easily infect another 3 people if not more. Each of them infect another 3 etc.

Before you know it you have thousands infected and lots of deaths.

[Loopylu]

5 hours ago, Wanderer Returns said:

I'm surprised this was necessary with your arriving from Australia - I thought no quarantine was necessary if you arrived in the UK from a very low risk country?

Everyone arriving from overseas in the UK (including UK citizens) all have to undergo 10 days of isolation. Hotel quarantine applies to red list countries. 4 new countries were added to this list yesterday including Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Although I started my journey in Australia you have to transit somewhere en route. I deliberately chose to fly with SingaporeAir as Singapore has Covid fairly under control. Qatar was cheaper but its proximity to UAE made me nervous. Two days after I arrived Qatar was added to the red list so anyone arriving on their flights will need to undergo hotel quarantine in the UK. 

Interestingly, Thailand, until a week or so ago, made arrivals go into 3 weeks of hotel quarantine but has moved back to 14 days. 

Edited April 3, 2021 by Loopylu

[Loopylu]

16 hours ago, newjez said:

So it's entirely voluntary then.

It’s proportionate to the risk seeing as Covid is here in the UK and will stay. People arriving from high risk countries with different virus strains are in hotel quarantine. 
 

if Australians ever want to travel again or get their overseas tourism industry back, they will have to accept that Covid will be there in the background in their country but hopefully controlled to a sufficient extent by vaccines. 

Edited April 3, 2021 by Loopylu

[newjez]

51 minutes ago, Loopylu said:

 People arriving from high risk countries with different virus strains are in hotel quarantine. 

No they are not.

That is the problem.

[Wanderer Returns]

5 hours ago, MacGyver said:

The research references 5% of cases developing symptoms between days 10 and 14 (rounding up/down). I wonder if this is why Australia has gone with the 14 day approach, to match their pursuit of containment rather than control that you mentioned?

The WHO stated early on that the incubation period could be up to 14 days (based on data from China), and that seems to have formed the basis of most countries quarantine policies. I'm not sure where the social distancing measurement came from, although I recall reading somewhere that a sneeze leaves you nose at 100mph and can travel up to 9 feet!

[Wanderer Returns]

2 hours ago, Loopylu said:

if Australians ever want to travel again or get their overseas tourism industry back, they will have to accept that Covid will be there in the background in their country but hopefully controlled to a sufficient extent by vaccines. 

I totally agree. The Australian policy of containment has been very effective at protecting lives and it was a great initial response, but it's not a long-term solution. As a nation we can't be cut off from the rest of the world forever - and not just for economic reasons. The government needs to stop patting itself on the back over how well it's done so far, get the vaccine rolled out much faster than it has being doing, and start working on an exit plan. It's all right for people (myself included) who have government jobs, or the rich, or those with guaranteed sources of income, but there are many who are self-employed and business owners who are really suffering at the moment - particularly those who work in tourism or hospitality. My wife is a housekeeper and she's had all her shifts cancelled this weekend because the hotel she works at has no guests (courtesy of the recent Brisbane outbreak). I find it absolutely astonishing that medical staff on the front line hadn't been vaccinated before being allowed to work with covid patients.

Despite all the negative press, I think the UK is now in a much better position than most countries. Almost everyone who is vulnerable has been vaccinated and as a nation they are no longer 'afraid of covid' like they are over here. It's become an excepted risk of daily life, and you can see most people just want to get on with it - and I'm sure they will once Boris stops dithering!

[Wanderer Returns]

8 hours ago, newjez said:

Are transit countries counted? Qatar and UAE are both on the red list.

A good point. You'd have thought if you're transiting then you'd be exempt, as you haven't legally entered the country. In Changi airport they've created different channels for transit passengers and those returning to Singapore, so at least didn't mix in the airport - even though they may have just sat next to each other on the plane for the previous 12 hours!

[MacGyver]

1 hour ago, Wanderer Returns said:

I totally agree. The Australian policy of containment has been very effective at protecting lives and it was a great initial response, but it's not a long-term solution. As a nation we can't be cut off from the rest of the world forever - and not just for economic reasons. The government needs to stop patting itself on the back over how well it's done so far, get the vaccine rolled out much faster than it has being doing, and start working on an exit plan. It's all right for people (myself included) who have government jobs, or the rich, or those with guaranteed sources of income, but there are many who are self-employed and business owners who are really suffering at the moment - particularly those who work in tourism or hospitality. My wife is a housekeeper and she's had all her shifts cancelled this weekend because the hotel she works at has no guests (courtesy of the recent Brisbane outbreak). I find it absolutely astonishing that medical staff on the front line hadn't been vaccinated before being allowed to work with covid patients.

Despite all the negative press, I think the UK is now in a much better position than most countries. Almost everyone who is vulnerable has been vaccinated and as a nation they are no longer 'afraid of covid' like they are over here. It's become an excepted risk of daily life, and you can see most people just want to get on with it - and I'm sure they will once Boris stops dithering!

Agreed, I am finding the pace of vaccine rollout frustratingly slow. Technically it is more or less on schedule, I just naively assumed that the rollout would accelerate beyond the original timetable once the onshore AstraZeneca production started churning out millions of doses each week.

The UK has done very well with the vaccine rollout, with appropriate urgency (Albeit necessary urgency given the number of cases). I think Australia is in a very good position but this has led to an overly casual approach to the vaccination schedule, with teething problems causing additional delays. I expected mass vaccination sites to be setup (eg in community halls or stadia) to complement GP practices, pharmacies and hospitals to really gain momentum and get the population vaccinated quickly. That would’ve allowed the government to sit back, say “look how well we handled Covid and the vaccinations” and then look to shift towards a looser border scenario. The longer vaccinations take, the longer the population is at risk from outbreaks.

[Loopylu]

Just taken my Mum for her second Pfizer jab. Mass vaccination centres are open every day. 

As an over 50, on Tuesday I can phone and make an appointment for the Astra Zeneca at the Carmarthen Showgrounds drive through.

As you can see from my photo we are having glorious Spring weather...

Edited April 3, 2021 by Loopylu

[Loopylu]

1 hour ago, Wanderer Returns said:

A good point. You'd have thought if you're transiting then you'd be exempt, as you haven't legally entered the country. In Changi airport they've created different channels for transit passengers and those returning to Singapore, so at least didn't mix in the airport - even though they may have just sat next to each other on the plane for the previous 12 hours!

Coming from Australia I had free run of Changi so potentially I could have acquired the vaccine from one of the locals serving in cafes and duty free. On the way back, if current rules apply I will be confined to a transit lounge.

[MacGyver]

12 minutes ago, Loopylu said:

Just taken my Mum for her second Pfizer jab. Mass vaccination centres are open every day. 

As an over 50, on Tuesday I can phone and make an appointment for the Astra Zeneca at the Carmarthen Showgrounds drive through.

As you can see from my photo we are having glorious Spring weather...

Has the UK adopted the approach of Pfizer for higher age ranges and AstraZeneca as the ‘workhorse’ vaccine for the rest of the population? I haven’t read anywhere which vaccines are being used where, for whom, and why.

[Loopylu]

3 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

Has the UK adopted the approach of Pfizer for higher age ranges and AstraZeneca as the ‘workhorse’ vaccine for the rest of the population? I haven’t read anywhere which vaccines are being used where, for whom, and why.

This has been the main approach but you have to travel to a centre that has the right type of refrigeration for Pfizer so if you are very elderly and unable to get there or choose not to travel you can get AZ from the local GP practice instead. 

[newjez]

3 hours ago, MacGyver said:

Has the UK adopted the approach of Pfizer for higher age ranges and AstraZeneca as the ‘workhorse’ vaccine for the rest of the population? I haven’t read anywhere which vaccines are being used where, for whom, and why.

I don't think so. Each site seems to do one sort of vaccine. You are given a list of sites when you book. I could have chosen either AZ or Pfister, if I knew which site did which jab, which I did. AZ was closer.

My MIL (82) was given an appointment at an AZ site. Mainly because it is close.

I don't think the NHS favours one over the other. They are just interested in getting shots in arms.

Seems to be working. Only ten dead today. Hospital patients and cases both in 3000's. Everything moving in the right direction.

Edited April 3, 2021 by newjez

[DrDougster]

8 hours ago, Loopylu said:

Coming from Australia I had free run of Changi so potentially I could have acquired the vaccine from one of the locals serving in cafes and duty free. On the way back, if current rules apply I will be confined to a transit lounge.

Getting a vaccine from a cafe or duty free sounds high risk!

[Loopylu]

2 hours ago, DrDougster said:

Getting a vaccine from a cafe or duty free sounds high risk!

Oops! I meant virus!!! LOL.

[Wanderer Returns]

12 hours ago, MacGyver said:

Has the UK adopted the approach of Pfizer for higher age ranges and AstraZeneca as the ‘workhorse’ vaccine for the rest of the population? I haven’t read anywhere which vaccines are being used where, for whom, and why.

I read yesterday on the BBC that there are serious concerns that the AZ vaccine has caused a number of deaths by blood clots (at least 7 in the UK), mostly in middle-aged women, and a number of European countries have either banned it or are only giving AZ to the elderly.

[Wanderer Returns]

12 hours ago, Loopylu said:

As you can see from my photo we are having glorious Spring weather...

Enjoy the lovely weather. We've had rain and storms on the Sunshine Coast for the whole of last week, and a whopping 160mm is forecast for tomorrow!  

[Marisawright]

10 minutes ago, Wanderer Returns said:

I read yesterday on the BBC that there are serious concerns that the AZ vaccine has caused a number of deaths by blood clots (at least 7 in the UK), mostly in middle-aged women, and a number of European countries have either banned it or are only giving AZ to the elderly.

The total number of cases so far is 62 out of 9.2 million doses given n the EU  (of which 14 have died).