Leaving sponsoring state early effecting 887

[palg1]

Hi all 

My wife and I are currently on a 489 NT regional sponsored visa (signing an agreement to work 1 year & live 2 years in the NT).

We have been living and working in the NT for the past 14 months but now have plans to move to Queensland (still within a regional or low-population growth area) respecting condition 8539 of our visa.

Question: Will the fact that we will not have stayed in our sponsoring state for the whole 2 years as agreed, effect the outcome of a future 887 application we make?

Thanks in advance for your kind advice.  

[rammygirl]

Unless you obtain permission to leave then yes it will effect your PR application. People used to get 190 state sponsored PR and leave for another state esp from NT that’s why they started to offer mainly 489 to people with no real contacts in NT.

They have tightened up on this in recent years and may now cancel PR visas so I don’t see why they would issue your PR if you broke the agreement you had with NT.

 

[Marisawright]

21 hours ago, palg1 said:

My wife and I are currently on a 489 NT regional sponsored visa (signing an agreement to work 1 year & live 2 years in the NT).

We have been living and working in the NT for the past 14 months but now have plans to move to Queensland (still within a regional or low-population growth area) respecting condition 8539 of our visa.

Question: Will the fact that we will not have stayed in our sponsoring state for the whole 2 years as agreed, effect the outcome of a future 887 application we make?.  

If you do not fulfil all your obligations under the 489, you are not eligible to apply for the 887.   

[JetBlast]

If you leave the regional area on a 489 you're in breach of your visa conditions. That will no reflect well when you apply for a 887.

https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/already-have-a-visa/check-visa-details-and-conditions/see-your-visa-conditions?product=489-37#

[palg1]

Thanks all for your input. 

Just searching for clarification because from my understanding, my 489 has one condition 8539 - Must stay in a specified area (Regional and low population growth metropolitan areas) official list is here (same link as jetblast) and includes low population areas such as Cairns. So technically we would be fulfilling the obligation of the visa itself as that document has no specific detail about staying in the NT. Also eligibility for the 887 is specified here supports that idea.   

Our agreement to live and work in the NT for 2 years is a separate document and made directly with the NT Government (not the department of home affairs). The fact that we have lived and worked here up till now shows that we signed the document in good faith, it is just that circumstances have changed.  

We are not looking for a loop hole or to cheat the system but our circumstances have changed and feel trapped in an agreement we signed 3 years ago. Would leaving a few months early really jeopardise an 887 in the future?

 

[palg1]

1 hour ago, JetBlast said:

If you leave the regional area on a 489 you're in breach of your visa conditions. That will no reflect well when you apply for a 887.

https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/already-have-a-visa/check-visa-details-and-conditions/see-your-visa-conditions?product=489-37#

 

We would still be going to a regional area (within a postcode listed in that link) just not in the sponsoring state.

Edited January 24, 2021 by palg1

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, palg1 said:

Thanks all for your input. 

Just searching for clarification because from my understanding, my 489 has one condition 8539 - Must stay in a specified area (Regional and low population growth metropolitan areas) official list is here (same link as jetblast) and includes low population areas such as Cairns. So technically we would be fulfilling the obligation of the visa itself as that document has no specific detail about staying in the NT. Also eligibility for the 887 is specified here supports that idea.   

Our agreement to live and work in the NT for 2 years is a separate document and made directly with the NT Government (not the department of home affairs). The fact that we have lived and worked here up till now shows that we signed the document in good faith, it is just that circumstances have changed.  

We are not looking for a loop hole or to cheat the system but our circumstances have changed and feel trapped in an agreement we signed 3 years ago. Would leaving a few months early really jeopardise an 887 in the future?

 

I would be paying an agent for a professional opinion on that if I were you. Too important to risk.

[DrDougster]

I would cross the NT government at your peril!

Having worked in Darwin for a year and experienced a few interactions and examples being made of people, I think your best course of action would actually be to go to them directly and ask if they will agree for you to go. There's every chance they will agree. And, if they don't, well you know where you stand and can delay your move.

[Southlander]

14 months into a 48 month visa you are looking to relocate. I can see NT would not be anyones first choice state, but for the sake of another 10 months you're wiling to compromise your future PR application should you qualify to apply. I note some agents hint you can move but the majority will not rubber stamp that under their name, why would they. No one can guarantee you your 887 application, and you want to add another layer of chose to leave our sponsoring state. That to me is a also a character issue, and sounds disingenuous that you chose that state albeit may have been the only one available. If you go ahead and to this, you only have yourself to blame, or thank but this is your choice and by sounds was always on the cards. 489 is also a different to that of the 491 and not all regional areas are the same. Ie does not include GC. 

I can see many more posts on this topic for you as each new timeline nears, all the way up to citizenship, should you manage to progress that far. Each one will come with added anxiety naturally. 

Good luck

Edited January 24, 2021 by Southlander

[DrDougster]

As Southlander hints at, there is a bit of a stigma (not sure that's quite the right word) attached to Australian immigration via NT. I always called Darwin a gateway drug - you get a hint of the possibilities of life in Australia and it tempts you to try other places. I do still think we will probably go back at some point, probably very late in our careers or for some time in our retirement as it will always hold a piece of my heart. However, from a career perspective when a job was made for me at a world renowned centre in Brisbane it was a no brainer to move and once here we have both found this to be a place where we want to live permanently. On the surface it looks like I maybe "used" NT as a pathway to get here and it is really only me that knows I didn't. However, if you still believe in the notion of honour, I'm at peace with my decision and I fulfilled my obligations in NT and didn't burn bridges leaving there. 

Make sure you're at peace with what you do and, as suggested, I'd have a chat with NT government and ask if they agree to the move.

[rammygirl]

Get something in writing from NT to say you have been released from your obligation. As you will be applying for PR in a different state they will probably ask anyway. NT are fed up with people leaving so don’t assume they won’t act if you leave without permission. 

[Marisawright]

17 hours ago, DrDougster said:

I would cross the NT government at your peril!

Having worked in Darwin for a year and experienced a few interactions and examples being made of people, I think your best course of action would actually be to go to them directly and ask if they will agree for you to go. There's every chance they will agree. And, if they don't, well you know where you stand and can delay your move.

I agree, but I'd also say "get it in writing".    

My concern would be that even if it's allowed under the current regulations, attitudes may have changed by the time the OP is eligible to apply for the 887.    States are getting more and more annoyed with people who take a state-sponsored visa and then don't fulfil their obligations, and there have often been rumours that they're starting to tighten up. So having a written release would be a very wise move IMO.  

[palg1]

Thank you all for your input.

Reply from MigrationNT: "we do not provide release letters under any circumstances"

I guess at the end of the day, no one can guarantee what effect an early exit will have on an 887, especially one that is yet to be applied for.

At the moment is seems to be a bit of a grey area, but not a risk we are willing to take that could jeopardise PR.  

Thanks again for all the feedback!

[palg1]

12 hours ago, DrDougster said:

On the surface it looks like I maybe "used" NT as a pathway to get here and it is really only me that knows I didn't. However, if you still believe in the notion of honour, I'm at peace with my decision and I fulfilled my obligations in NT and didn't burn bridges leaving there. 

Make sure you're at peace with what you do and, as suggested, I'd have a chat with NT government and ask if they agree to the move.

well said!!

[DrDougster]

2 hours ago, palg1 said:

Thank you all for your input.

Reply from MigrationNT: "we do not provide release letters under any circumstances"

I guess at the end of the day, no one can guarantee what effect an early exit will have on an 887, especially one that is yet to be applied for.

At the moment is seems to be a bit of a grey area, but not a risk we are willing to take that could jeopardise PR.  

Thanks again for all the feedback!

Until you apply it is hard to imagine the stress you have over the PR application - it's almost like filling out that first job application or your UCAS form for God's sake!

You certainly don't want to be thinking "oh shit, we really shouldn't have left NT early should we?". It'll be a real torment!

[Monster]

On 23/01/2021 at 20:05, palg1 said:

Hi all 

My wife and I are currently on a 489 NT regional sponsored visa (signing an agreement to work 1 year & live 2 years in the NT).

We have been living and working in the NT for the past 14 months but now have plans to move to Queensland (still within a regional or low-population growth area) respecting condition 8539 of our visa.

Question: Will the fact that we will not have stayed in our sponsoring state for the whole 2 years as agreed, effect the outcome of a future 887 application we make?

Thanks in advance for your kind advice.  

You have a moral (not legal obligation) to stay in NT for 2 yrs. If you leave NT before the 2 yr period it is possible that it might affect your 887 (no one can guarantee that because your 887 visa application will be assessed by a C.O.)

Please keep in mind that only DIBP can grant and cancel visas and not the state(s). There is a risk involved so if you will feel comfortable getting advice from a migration specialist do it as this one is a sensitive matter, but then again, most migration specialist will not provide you a direct answer to this.

Other states give out 'release letters' but others don't. I've heard others have done that because they have a valid reason like they are applying for jobs for the past 6 months but can't find any, so they sent an email to the state outlining their situation and provide evidence of job rejection emails as proof. In your case, you have a job so I'd say unless you have a strong & valid or compassionate reason to move out of NT do it, if none, better to stick it out until you finish 2 yrs just to be on the safe side.

DIBP assesses visa applications based on legislation, regulations, policies, etc. so as long as the applicant meets the requirements for the visa SC they are applying for then there should not be a problem. 

All the best!

[C22]

Hi Palg1,

New to this forum, in similar situation.

What did you end up doing? Staying for the first two years applying for 887 then leave to another regional area in different state?

Thanks

[palg1]

On 19/11/2021 at 17:08, C22 said:

Hi Palg1,

New to this forum, in similar situation.

What did you end up doing? Staying for the first two years applying for 887 then leave to another regional area in different state?

Thanks

Hi C22

The last post I made in this forum was January, We left Darwin in April and have happily settled in Cairns.

We are very happy with the decision, whatever the future holds.

I  contacted my original London based mara registered migration agent, they confirmed that we could move to another listed regional area, would not be in breach of our visa and that is all that matters.

One thing I have learnt in this whole process is not to get lost in forums for answers or opinions, everyone is different, get profession advised based on your own circumstances.   

All the best

[C22]

Hi Palg1,

Appreciate you responding after not being active for so long.

I guess now you may have applied for your 887, did you have any issues with supplying evidence of living in two different states regional areas? Or your agent say it could be at time of grant?

The information I got from agent was it’s a grey area, however after calling home affairs they stated legal obligations are to department and visa conditions on grant letter, obligations to state are moral but encouraged to complete any agreements with them.  They also mentioned they are not concerned with release letters, and if they were would be mentioned on their website.  This was generic advise from home affairs.

Thanks.