Brits living in Oz, returning to UK for Uni

[Island]

Kids are dual citizens but currently at secondary school in Oz.  Am I right in thinking we have to live in the UK for 3 years before they would qualify as home students (not paying international fees).  Are there any ways around this?  We have property in the UK still and pay tax there still... Thanks!!

[Marisawright]

You are right, there is a 3 year residency rule. Not aware of any way round it

[VERYSTORMY]

The way around is to contact individual universities to see if they are willing to waive it for domestic fees. We have had members succeed in this.

[Amber Snowball]

1 hour ago, VERYSTORMY said:

The way around is to contact individual universities to see if they are willing to waive it for domestic fees. We have had members succeed in this.

Agree. It seems each uni approaches this independently and can apply home fees if they want to. You would have to pay in full though as I am pretty sure the government won’t approve a student loan. Not much given to waiving the rules in government offices! 

We looked at it but it worked out very expensive even with home fees, international were out of sight, so my son has stayed in Australia to complete his studies.

[Island]

Oh thank you so much for these replies - Amber, did you find Australia uni prices cheaper, compared with national UK fees?  Are you planning to move back after kids finish uni?  We have lived in Australia for 13 years, then in 2017 moved back to England for 1.5 years and now we are back in Oz for I'm not sure how long!!  We either go back in 3.5 years for kids to do A'levels in UK and then gap year, then uni or else we move back in 10 years when they've both finished school and uni (if they go).  It seems far away but we need to think ahead to avoid feeling trapped in a situation... But the thought of leaving the kids if they want to stay - aghhh!! Love to hear your thoughts and experiences with this..

[newjez]

7 hours ago, Island said:

Kids are dual citizens but currently at secondary school in Oz.  Am I right in thinking we have to live in the UK for 3 years before they would qualify as home students (not paying international fees).  Are there any ways around this?  We have property in the UK still and pay tax there still... Thanks!!

You could look at Scotland or Wales, but I still think there is a residency period. But at least you don't pay fees.

[Eera]

It's true that universities have the authorisation to make the decision as to whether a student is Home of International - that was my job for a time - but it's generally based on whether the parents are basically *forced* to move overseas, rather than make the choice to do so.  For example, there's no issues with military families stationed overseas, and if the parents were seconded overseas we would look at it sympathetically.  If the parents are basically moving out of their own volition then we wouldn't charge Home fees.  Bear in mind that the previous post regarding government attitudes is (was) correct - for student loans the three year residency rule sits.

However, in terms of the three years, they took residency in the UK on a certain date as being one year regardless of how long the potential student has been in the country - used to be 1st September.  So if you turn up on the 30th August, as far as fees were concerned you met one years'residency a day or so later.  So if you were to move over to do A Levels under this ruling, there's not necessarily any need to do a gap year - though check this is still the current rule, though I was in International Students for a good time, that was also a number of years ago.

There's also another part of the ruling that gets overlooked a lot ; for home fees to be charged the student has to be resident for three years for reason *other* then higher education.  Effectively this means that if they were to move over to attend university, their fee status would not change after three years if they chose to do post-grad.

[Amber Snowball]

2 minutes ago, Eera said:

It's true that universities have the authorisation to make the decision as to whether a student is Home of International - that was my job for a time - but it's generally based on whether the parents are basically *forced* to move overseas, rather than make the choice to do so.  For example, there's no issues with military families stationed overseas, and if the parents were seconded overseas we would look at it sympathetically.  If the parents are basically moving out of their own volition then we wouldn't charge Home fees.  Bear in mind that the previous post regarding government attitudes is (was) correct - for student loans the three year residency rule sits.

However, in terms of the three years, they took residency in the UK on a certain date as being one year regardless of how long the potential student has been in the country - used to be 1st September.  So if you turn up on the 30th August, as far as fees were concerned you met one years'residency a day or so later.  So if you were to move over to do A Levels under this ruling, there's not necessarily any need to do a gap year - though check this is still the current rule, though I was in International Students for a good time, that was also a number of years ago.

There's also another part of the ruling that gets overlooked a lot ; for home fees to be charged the student has to be resident for three years for reason *other* then higher education.  Effectively this means that if they were to move over to attend university, their fee status would not change after three years if they chose to do post-grad.

Great info from an “insider”.

[dxboz]

A few years ago - my friend went back to Scotland after 20 years overseas and they classed her as a resident for university due to the fact she had kept a house there - hope this helps

 

Edited November 1, 2018 by dxboz
more info

[Nemesis]

1 hour ago, dxboz said:

A few years ago - my friend went back to Scotland after 20 years overseas and they classed her as a resident for university due to the fact she had kept a house there - hope this helps

 

Was it a Scottish or English university, they have different rules.

[Amber Snowball]

10 hours ago, Island said:

Oh thank you so much for these replies - Amber, did you find Australia uni prices cheaper, compared with national UK fees?  Are you planning to move back after kids finish uni?  We have lived in Australia for 13 years, then in 2017 moved back to England for 1.5 years and now we are back in Oz for I'm not sure how long!!  We either go back in 3.5 years for kids to do A'levels in UK and then gap year, then uni or else we move back in 10 years when they've both finished school and uni (if they go).  It seems far away but we need to think ahead to avoid feeling trapped in a situation... But the thought of leaving the kids if they want to stay - aghhh!! Love to hear your thoughts and experiences with this..

It was for us, yes. Just under $10,000 per year with access to HECS compared to just under £10,000 per year with no access to HECS. My son is older and is just finishing his undergrad so we were looking at post grad stuff. Also moving between an Australian undergrad to an English post grad wasn’t that simple either, but this was because of the area of study so wouldn’t apply across the board.

Eera gave good information on how they work out the residency time above. If there’s no concrete plan for uni I would move sooner rather than later and play it by ear from there. 10 years is a long time.

Also, can you afford to leave it for that long with pension planning etc. I partly moved now so I could start putting back into an NHS pension and build up my NI contributions. My mental health wouldn’t have lasted much longer anyway to be honest. Obviously eveyones situation is different.

The uni websites are informative and the admissions people were helpful in most cases, so you could do some research of general courses that might apply to your children and do a comparison.

Good luck. This is the hardest part. Deciding what to do. Once you settle on a course of action, whatever it is, life gets easier.

 

[Marisawright]

13 hours ago, Island said:

Oh thank you so much for these replies - Amber, did you find Australia uni prices cheaper, compared with national UK fees?  Are you planning to move back after kids finish uni?  We have lived in Australia for 13 years, then in 2017 moved back to England for 1.5 years and now we are back in Oz for I'm not sure how long!!  We either go back in 3.5 years for kids to do A'levels in UK and then gap year, then uni or else we move back in 10 years when they've both finished school and uni (if they go).  It seems far away but we need to think ahead to avoid feeling trapped in a situation... But the thought of leaving the kids if they want to stay - aghhh!! Love to hear your thoughts and experiences with this..

If you've decided you definitely want to spend your later years in the UK, then I think the 10-year plan is risky. Early adulthood - especially uni/college -  is when most people forge the friendships that last into adulthood.  They might even meet their future wife/husband.  So if you wait till after uni,  your kids are going to be more firmly anchored in Australia than they are now, so there's a good chance they won't want to return with you.  

Of course, if you go now, there's no guarantee they won't move back to Australia as adults anyway.  However, because they've had a chance to make friendships and feel settled, they will feel the attraction of both countries so there's a better chance they would stick around. 

Amber is also right about pensions etc.  If you leave Australia before the age of 65, you'll forfeit all rights to the Australian aged pension - and because your NI contributions are too low, you may not get much British pension.  If you've got a healthy bank balance and good superannuation, that may be irrelevant, but worth being aware of.

If you do want the British pension, then enquire now about making Class 2 contributions while you are working in Australia.  They are changing the rules early next year so it's important to sort it out now

Edited November 1, 2018 by Marisawright

[Island]

Hi Amber - you are so right, the decisions are the hardest!  Are you happy back in the UK?  Do you think your son will stay in oz long term (I guess impossible to know!). If you move back to the UK whilst he is at uni in Australia, I'm presuming he still qualifies as a home student in Oz?  Was this situation his preference as well?  I know my older child would definitely want to stay here...Aged 13 he was already planning which mates he could live with so he could go back to Australia if we'd decided to stay in England last year!  Sorry if these questions are too personal, just ignore if so!

Marisawright - yes we have thought they might want to stay if don't move back till after they complete their edu, or else they may move back later anyway - but we can't live by those fears as even if we lived in the UK our whole entire lives, they might fall in love with a Japanese, or American and move to the other side of the world anyway!  But yes its been in the back of the mind how to minimise this!!!  

To be honest we haven't considered pensions at all - so thanks to you both for bringing this up, wasn't on my radar.  So if we leave Australia (after having worked here 15 yeas plus) will we be able to access our Australian superannuation from the UK?  (but not aged pension)?  Is the aged pension in Australia comparable with UK version?  The problem is that right now we are much better off earning and working here (& private schooling is half the price compared with what we were paying in the UK)...  We also have the issue of schooling years as kids are in year 5 and 7 in Australia and 7 & 9 in the UK.  Eek, its all become a bit of a nightmare.   We thought we could just move back to Oz for a couple of years and then moved back to England again but now feels full of hurdles.  I really don't want to feel I'm stuck here and definitely can't imagine retiring here forever.  England is still our home and where all our family and old friends live.

Eera - thanks for your input about uni applications - very good to know, and so think we need to live by the 3 year rule.  And not leave it till university...instead move as a family for 'family reasons' to avoid the last point you mentioned...

 

Thank you everyone - so helpful... Any more of your experiences would be so welcome!! Going to uni in Australia with parents in the UK...how does that work - do they fly home for holidays once a year or something?  I guess they are effectively adults by that age...

[Amber Snowball]

2 minutes ago, Island said:

Hi Amber - you are so right, the decisions are the hardest!  Are you happy back in the UK?  Do you think your son will stay in oz long term (I guess impossible to know!). If you move back to the UK whilst he is at uni in Australia, I'm presuming he still qualifies as a home student in Oz?  Was this situation his preference as well?  I know my older child would definitely want to stay here...Aged 13 he was already planning which mates he could live with so he could go back to Australia if we'd decided to stay in England last year!  Sorry if these questions are too personal, just ignore if so!

Marisawright - yes we have thought they might want to stay if don't move back till after they complete their edu, or else they may move back later anyway - but we can't live by those fears as even if we lived in the UK our whole entire lives, they might fall in love with a Japanese, or American and move to the other side of the world anyway!  But yes its been in the back of the mind how to minimise this!!!  

To be honest we haven't considered pensions at all - so thanks to you both for bringing this up, wasn't on my radar.  So if we leave Australia (after having worked here 15 yeas plus) will we be able to access our Australian superannuation from the UK?  (but not aged pension)?  Is the aged pension in Australia comparable with UK version?  The problem is that right now we are much better off earning and working here (& private schooling is half the price compared with what we were paying in the UK)...  We also have the issue of schooling years as kids are in year 5 and 7 in Australia and 7 & 9 in the UK.  Eek, its all become a bit of a nightmare.   We thought we could just move back to Oz for a couple of years and then moved back to England again but now feels full of hurdles.  I really don't want to feel I'm stuck here and definitely can't imagine retiring here forever.  England is still our home and where all our family and old friends live.

Eera - thanks for your input about uni applications - very good to know, and so think we need to live by the 3 year rule.  And not leave it till university...instead move as a family for 'family reasons' to avoid the last point you mentioned...

 

Thank you everyone - so helpful... Any more of your experiences would be so welcome!! Going to uni in Australia with parents in the UK...how does that work - do they fly home for holidays once a year or something?  I guess they are effectively adults by that age...

Yes, he is an Australian citizen so gets home fees. Doesn’t matter where I am. Yes, his preference was to complete his uni in Australia. Just smoother moving from under grad to post grad in his case. Had it been easy to transfer he may well have come back with me but it was just too hard and costly.

 I ring fenced money to help pay his rent and to pay for flights back and forth, he comes over for 6 weeks soon. He’ll have to go where the work is eventually, just like the rest of us I suppose. He fancies trying Canada at some stage.

 I work on the assumption we’ll work it out.

[Amber Snowball]

31 minutes ago, Island said:

Hi Amber - you are so right, the decisions are the hardest!  Are you happy back in the UK?  Do you think your son will stay in oz long term (I guess impossible to know!). If you move back to the UK whilst he is at uni in Australia, I'm presuming he still qualifies as a home student in Oz?  Was this situation his preference as well?  I know my older child would definitely want to stay here...Aged 13 he was already planning which mates he could live with so he could go back to Australia if we'd decided to stay in England last year!  Sorry if these questions are too personal, just ignore if so!

Marisawright - yes we have thought they might want to stay if don't move back till after they complete their edu, or else they may move back later anyway - but we can't live by those fears as even if we lived in the UK our whole entire lives, they might fall in love with a Japanese, or American and move to the other side of the world anyway!  But yes its been in the back of the mind how to minimise this!!!  

To be honest we haven't considered pensions at all - so thanks to you both for bringing this up, wasn't on my radar.  So if we leave Australia (after having worked here 15 yeas plus) will we be able to access our Australian superannuation from the UK?  (but not aged pension)?  Is the aged pension in Australia comparable with UK version?  The problem is that right now we are much better off earning and working here (& private schooling is half the price compared with what we were paying in the UK)...  We also have the issue of schooling years as kids are in year 5 and 7 in Australia and 7 & 9 in the UK.  Eek, its all become a bit of a nightmare.   We thought we could just move back to Oz for a couple of years and then moved back to England again but now feels full of hurdles.  I really don't want to feel I'm stuck here and definitely can't imagine retiring here forever.  England is still our home and where all our family and old friends live.

Eera - thanks for your input about uni applications - very good to know, and so think we need to live by the 3 year rule.  And not leave it till university...instead move as a family for 'family reasons' to avoid the last point you mentioned...

 

Thank you everyone - so helpful... Any more of your experiences would be so welcome!! Going to uni in Australia with parents in the UK...how does that work - do they fly home for holidays once a year or something?  I guess they are effectively adults by that age...

Just to add. Yes I am very happy. It’s been a lot of running around getting things sorted but I am enjoying it being back. Feel very settled. I have moved to a different part of the UK than the place I left so see myself as moving on, not back. 

[Marisawright]

45 minutes ago, Island said:

So if we leave Australia (after having worked here 15 yeas plus) will we be able to access our Australian superannuation from the UK?  (but not aged pension)?  Is the aged pension in Australia comparable with UK version?  ... I really don't want to feel I'm stuck here and definitely can't imagine retiring here forever.  England is still our home and where all our family and old friends live.

You can access your super from the UK.  The only downside is tax.  

1. If you stay in Australia until you retire,  you can take your lump sum tax-free and put it in the  bank.  Then it's just regarded as "savings", and you can do what you like with it when you subsequently move to the UK - no tax payable either end.

2.  If you leave Australia before you retire, taking a lump sum becomes unfeasible because you'd lose so much to the British taxman, so you'll need to convert it to a pension.  If you stayed in Australia, that would be tax-free, but in the UK you'll have to declare it and it will be taxed as income.

TBH if you feel England is your home, I wouldn't be planning on option 1, even if it does save tax.  So much can change, especially  health-wise.  We've seen far too many retirees on these forums who stayed in Australia too long and now feel stuck, for one reason or another. 

The Australian govt pension is better than the British one, but it's means-tested. It's not a scheme you pay into, like the British one - it's a benefit, like unemployment benefit, and only intended for those who can't support themselves.  If you've got a decent superannuation balance and savings, you may not be eligible for it anyway.  Personally, I like to know that it's there as a safety net, in case I live a long time and run out of super, though!  

If you have paid into the British system, you are entitled to the British pension regardless of your other income - but you need to have paid into the system.  You need 35 years' worth of contributions to get the full amount.

If, like me, you feel a safety net is a good idea, then it would be wise to start paying Class 2 NI contributions now, and backpay six years' worth, so you can build up an entitlement to the British pension for your old age. 

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by Marisawright

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Island said:

 I know my older child would definitely want to stay here...Aged 13 he was already planning which mates he could live with so he could go back to Australia if we'd decided to stay in England last year! 

Of course your 13 year old was thinking that way, he hadn't been in England long enough to form any friendships that were equal to his Australian ones.  If you had stayed longer, that would have changed, and then his thinking would've been less clear-cut.

It seems to me you've got a short window, while they're young enough not to have a choice, to bring them back to England.  If your eldest could have three years in a British school, he'll have made friends  he'd like to go to uni with in England, too.  Australia might still win but it's not guaranteed - which it will be, if you stay.