Jobs advice - Victoria

[swc132994]

Hello all,

I and family are looking to move to Victoria either near the end of the year of early next year. I already hold a 190 visa for the state of Victoria .

My main issue which has so far prevented our move is work or rather the current lack of my type of work in Victoria. I am a mechanical draughtsman working mostly in 3D modelling (solidworks,autodesk inventor) but used to use autoCAD a lot for 2D. My problem is that searching on seek.com.au doing weekly job searches but am only finds roughly about 7 new jobs per week for product/industrial design and drafting. Considering this I am thinking that after moving it would be very difficult to get a drafting/design job even on entry level.
Does anyone know if I could transition my drafting experience into a different area (I see a lot of civil & structural as well as architectural)?

I have an idea in my mind to do something different entirely such as a mature apprenticeship as an electrician. I completed a C&G 2360 (electrical installation and theory) in a UK college in 2003 but never progressed further than this and went into drafting/design instead.
Firstly is City & Guilds recognised in Australia or is equivalency possibly available? Secondly how likely would an employer take my on as an apprentice starting from scratch (I am more than willing to do the training, courses and shadowing experienced electricians to achieve this)?

I really want to hit the ground running and start bringing in an income as soon a possible. I am more than happy to start at junior level and work myself back up. Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Best regards,

[cheese n pickle]

Hi

Don't know about draughtsman work but I found this regarding apprenticeships https://www.training.com.au/ed/mature-age-apprenticeships-worth/ you would need to find an employer first and sign a training agreement before you can enrol at TAFE. Looking at the website the wages are low, so need to ask yourself if you could manage on that sort of wage? It can also be a challenge to find an employer, my daughter's boyfriend is an apprentice electrician and it took him around 6 months to find someone. Good luck!

[Marisawright]

Unfortunately, it's almost impossible to manage to "hit the ground running" when you arrive. 

Unless your skills are in high demand, no one is going to hire you from the UK for any job.  They know your life is going to be chaos for the first few weeks after landing, so you won't be working at your best. They know things can happen to delay your departure.  They know that even if they offer you the  job today, they'll probably have to wait a couple of months for you to arrive.  They know you might arrive, hate it, and head home again (it does happen).  

If you were an employer, who would you hire?  You, or the local guy who only has to give four weeks' notice?  Most employers will compromise on a less-qualified local person than risk all that hassle.

The electrician idea might work, but again you can't do anything about getting an apprenticeship until you arrive.  There's nothing to stop you applying for jobs in your own field AND apprenticeships at the same time, and see which one you get first. However considering how little you'd earn as an apprentice, I suspect you'd be better off sticking it out until you get a job in your own field.

The common advice now is to budget for six months living expenses while you search for work, because it can take that long to land a job. If that would be a problem for your family, one solution is for you to arrive on your own and live in backpackers or with friends until you've found a job, then send for your family.

[Mcguinnessp1968]

Unfortunately, it's almost impossible to manage to "hit the ground running" when you arrive. 
Unless your skills are in high demand, no one is going to hire you from the UK for any job.  They know your life is going to be chaos for the first few weeks after landing, so you won't be working at your best. They know things can happen to delay your departure.  They know that even if they offer you the  job today, they'll probably have to wait a couple of months for you to arrive.  They know you might arrive, hate it, and head home again (it does happen).  
If you were an employer, who would you hire?  You, or the local guy who only has to give four weeks' notice?  Most employers will compromise on a less-qualified local person than risk all that hassle.
The electrician idea might work, but again you can't do anything about getting an apprenticeship until you arrive.  There's nothing to stop you applying for jobs in your own field AND apprenticeships at the same time, and see which one you get first. However considering how little you'd earn as an apprentice, I suspect you'd be better off sticking it out until you get a job in your own field.
The common advice now is to budget for six months living expenses while you search for work, because it can take that long to land a job. If that would be a problem for your family, one solution is for you to arrive on your own and live in backpackers or with friends until you've found a job, then send for your family.

I’m sorry but that is one of biggest lots of rubbish I have read on here. To suggest that an employer wouldn’t hire someone who has just moved here is nonsense.

[Quoll]

1 hour ago, Mcguinnessp1968 said:

 

I’m sorry but that is one of biggest lots of rubbish I have read on here. To suggest that an employer wouldn’t hire someone who has just moved here is nonsense.
 

 

Dunno, seemed like remarkably common sense to me. She isn’t saying that no one would ever do it, just that it often takes time to crack the first job especially in a specific career field where your skill set is nothing out of the box. Australia is as guilty as anywhere of using the old boy network especially in a fairly limited field. A new kid off the boat, unless they are very special, isn’t automatically going to beat a load of home grown applicants with local connections and knowledge.

If you want a job as a barista, no worries, anywhere in town but if you have a particular skill set and no known associates or a familiar alma mater then budget 6 months before you get your foot in the door. If you can do it for less then that’s a bonus.

Id tend to think that with so many young Aussies looking for apprenticeships there wouldn’t be much attraction for a new older person just off the boat.

What would be rubbish is to suggest to a new arrival that they’ll be cushy in their career role by the end of the week!

Edited July 5, 2018 by Quoll

[Mcguinnessp1968]

Dunno, seemed like remarkably common sense to me. She isn’t saying that no one would ever do it, just that it often takes time to crack the first job especially in a specific career field where your skill set is nothing out of the box. Australia is as guilty as anywhere of using the old boy network especially in a fairly limited field. A new kid off the boat, unless they are very special, isn’t automatically going to beat a load of home grown applicants with local connections and knowledge.
If you want a job as a barista, no worries, anywhere in town but if you have a particular skill set and no known associates or a familiar alma mater then budget 6 months before you get your foot in the door. If you can do it for less then that’s a bonus.
Id tend to think that with so many young Aussies looking for apprenticeships there wouldn’t be much attraction for a new older person just off the boat.
What would be rubbish is to suggest to a new arrival that they’ll be cushy in their career role by the end of the week!

That’s fair comment apologies Marissa


Looking at it from another angle I don’t really understand people moving here and taking what is a massive risk with their livelihood and living standards

I know more than one couple back in the uk who did it spent every penny they had “living the dream” here only to have to return to the uk with nothing when the money ran out. In both cases I know of the marriage didn’t survive

Massive massive gamble IMO

[Marisawright]

 

1 hour ago, Mcguinnessp1968 said:

That’s fair comment apologies Marissa

Looking at it from another angle I don’t really understand people moving here and taking what is a massive risk with their livelihood and living standards

I know more than one couple back in the uk who did it spent every penny they had “living the dream” here only to have to return to the uk with nothing when the money ran out. In both cases I know of the marriage didn’t survive

Massive massive gamble IMO

 

 

Just to be clear, I didn't say no one would hire someone who has "just moved here".  I said no one would hire someone who was still in the UK.  

Once someone has arrived in Australia, they should be on a level playing field with everyone else (though the lack of networks may slow them down in some professions).  However, that doesn't mean they're going to find a job in a week or two. I always say to people, if you lost your job tomorrow in the UK, how long would it take you to find a new one?  I think people assume jobs are easier to get in Australia than in the UK, whereas my perception (when i was back a couple of years ago) is that it's harder, if anything.

I agree with you about people taking the massive gamble. TBH I have no idea why people with families do it.  I came 30 years ago when it was a no-brainer - plenty of jobs, good salaries, cheap housing, fantastic. Now, the job market is a struggle, salaries are better for some occupations but not all, and the cost of housing in nice areas is terrifying. 

Personally, I prefer living in Australia but I think both countries have their pluses and minuses, and I can't understand families being willing to blow £50,000 on moving here (which can be what it costs, by the time you factor in visa, fares, car, shipping, months out of work, setting up costs etc etc).  Just think what they could do for their kids with that amount of money if they just stayed in the UK!

 

Edited July 5, 2018 by Marisawright

[starlight7]

I guess anyone emigrating is taking a risk these days but plenty do it and they can't all end up unemployed. I think personality has a lot to do with it in this fair land.  It pays to be a bit of an extrovert with a 'can do' attitude (even if you can't but are willing to try!) Confidence has a lot to do with how you initially get a job- the old adage still applies "fake it til you make it'

[Marisawright]

32 minutes ago, starlight7 said:

I guess anyone emigrating is taking a risk these days but plenty do it and they can't all end up unemployed. I think personality has a lot to do with it in this fair land.  It pays to be a bit of an extrovert with a 'can do' attitude (even if you can't but are willing to try!) Confidence has a lot to do with how you initially get a job- the old adage still applies "fake it til you make it'

I don't think anyone's suggesting people will end up permanently unemployed, just that it can take a while to get a job, whichever country you're in.

[Toots]

2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

 

Just to be clear, I didn't say no one would hire someone who has "just moved here".  I said no one would hire someone who was still in the UK.  

Once someone has arrived in Australia, they should be on a level playing field with everyone else (though the lack of networks may slow them down in some professions).  However, that doesn't mean they're going to find a job in a week or two. I always say to people, if you lost your job tomorrow in the UK, how long would it take you to find a new one?  I think people assume jobs are easier to get in Australia than in the UK, whereas my perception (when i was back a couple of years ago) is that it's harder, if anything.

I agree with you about people taking the massive gamble. TBH I have no idea why people with families do it.  I came 30 years ago when it was a no-brainer - plenty of jobs, good salaries, cheap housing, fantastic. Now, the job market is a struggle, salaries are better for some occupations but not all, and the cost of housing in nice areas is terrifying. 

Personally, I prefer living in Australia but I think both countries have their pluses and minuses, and I can't understand families being willing to blow £50,000 on moving here (which can be what it costs, by the time you factor in visa, fares, car, shipping, months out of work, setting up costs etc etc).  Just think what they could do for their kids with that amount of money if they just stayed in the UK!

 

Agree with you there Marisa.   Life was easy and so affordable when we came 37 years ago.  Can't say the same now.  

We didn't have children then.  My OH had a backpack and I had one suitcase when we arrived.  We had one of those big old fashioned trunks full of bits and pieces we hadn't given away or sold before we came.  It arrived nearly 6 months later.  We both had jobs within a week or arriving.  After a year of saving we had enough money to buy a block of land then borrowed the money to build our own house.  Never really looked back after that.    

[swc132994]

Thanks for the replies,

I already had a strong feeling it would be difficult move hence why we haven't left the UK yet. I have been researching this for about 6 years now on and off hoping to see some better trends come up. Truth is I received my 190 visa back in 2013 but it expires next year meaning a move will then become a now or never moment and I know I would regret it if we didn't even try. 

There is not much tying us the the UK, my wife is not originally from the UK and I am not close to most of my family members. Mostly we want to give our young daughter a better lifestyle than we have had.

My 190 visa is sponsored by Victoria so I would have to reside there for 2 years unless a job came up in another state. We have a few options, ideally it would be nice to get a job in (CAD) but I know the manufacturing has been on the decline for a few years now, especially with the car manufacturers leaving Melbourne. My wife could work some as well, she is a fully qualified accountant although she would have to enter at a lower level as well in Australia. We also may have enough saving to possibly buy 2 properties (one to rent out) to generate some extra income.

If I had a better feeling for my line of work in Melbourne I could work out some sort of plan to budget for. I tried contacting recruitment agents about my line of work, just after a figure of how many people they manage to place and how many candidates apply for a position on average with my type of experience would be nice but they ignore any enquiries, hence my willingness to learn a trade instead and build myself up to do something else.

Edited July 5, 2018 by swc132994

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, swc132994 said:

If I had a better feeling for my line of work in Melbourne I could work out some sort of plan to budget for. I tried contacting recruitment agents about my line of work, just after a figure of how many people they manage to place and how many candidates apply for a position on average with my type of experience would be nice but they ignore any enquiries, hence my willingness to learn a trade instead and build myself up to do something else.

Have you tried phoning them?  They won't ring you back if you have to leave a message, but you might get through to a few of them.  If you can afford a flying visit, then you could rock up to their offices - it's much harder to ignore you if you're standing at the front desk.  

It would also allow you to do a bit of house-hunting to check that your budget is realistic.  The price of housing in Melbourne has risen over 60% while you've been planning!

[Drumbeat]

I'm not sure if this is much help but I know that work for mechanical draftsmen has picked up considerably in Perth recently as my OH manages a drawing office.

[swc132994]

Hi Drumbeat,

I did a quick search for drafting job in Perth. I can find only about 7 jobs listed. I usually add in a keyword such as solidworks or Inventor to filter out non applicable jobs (mostly in civil design)

One question comes to mind: do companies usually advertise on Seek or do they use local newspapers perhaps even advertise internally such as word of mouth? My thinking is that maybe there are more than 7 jobs out there but they don't usually advertise on seek in Perth

 

[Marisawright]

3 hours ago, swc132994 said:

Hi Drumbeat,

I did a quick search for drafting job in Perth. I can find only about 7 jobs listed.

 

It sounds like you're looking for a very specific skillset, and if that's the case, then why do you think 7 jobs in a week isn't much?  Perth and Melbourne are not London, after all.  Consider the size of the population

[Drumbeat]

4 hours ago, swc132994 said:

Hi Drumbeat,

I did a quick search for drafting job in Perth. I can find only about 7 jobs listed. I usually add in a keyword such as solidworks or Inventor to filter out non applicable jobs (mostly in civil design)

One question comes to mind: do companies usually advertise on Seek or do they use local newspapers perhaps even advertise internally such as word of mouth? My thinking is that maybe there are more than 7 jobs out there but they don't usually advertise on seek in Perth

 

Hi,

husband's just come home from work so I checked with him as I was sure he didn't use Seek. He confirmed he only uses specific specialist recruitment agencies to supply staff and never advertises so it's possibly similar in Victoria.  

Apparently the software used in Australia is a mixture of Microstation, PDMS and AutoCAD - In WA it's mostly Microstation.

[swc132994]

Maria, 

I do phone agencies using skype credit, they tend not to engage with me since I am not in Australia.

I don't live or work in London. 

In the UK,  Solidworks and Inventor pretty much a norm across the manufacturing sector except for automotive. 

[Marisawright]

7 minutes ago, swc132994 said:

Maria, 

I do phone agencies using skype credit, they tend not to engage with me since I am not in Australia.

I don't live or work in London. 

In the UK,  Solidworks and Inventor pretty much a norm across the manufacturing sector except for automotive. 

When you say they don't "engage with you", what do you mean?   They're not going to entertain an application, that's for sure - but what do they say when you ask them about the chances of employment, whether your skillset is in demand, questions like that?

[swc132994]

It starts with a phone call to a certain office dealing with recruitment in the area. Then I have to be put through to the right person dealing with engineering, they are unavailable but will email me back, they don't so I follow it up with another call some days later, still not available. I repeat this process over some weeks and I ask questions but they don't deal with engineering so they cannot answer questions like skillset so I never get anywhere. Other agencies are similar.

Thanks Drumbeat, it seems to be what I feared. I may have to look to change my skillset to suit the Australian market.

I know going down the route of an electrician is long process and would nor bear fruit in the short term. Has anyone done this from scratch and where did you start from? I imagine it needs a combination of practical as well as academic (exams, tests, certification)

 

Edited July 6, 2018 by swc132994