newjez Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 an opinion based on what? nothing but wishful thinking, we have no idea what kind of arrangement the UK will come to with the EU, so any predictions at the moment can only be based on personal prejudice. this is true. But unlike the government, business seems to be planning for all eventuality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 this is true. But unlike the government, business seems to be planning for all eventuality. How can you possibly know what the Government is planning ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 they are putting pressure on to influence the government. If they are successful, they can continue with their expansion plans. If they are not, they have an excuse to withdraw. All they are doing a showing the government what the stakes are. The colour of their money. They are buying a brexit decision in their favour, as have Nissan, and I expect Honda will follow suit. So you are saying they are spending a quarter of a billion pounds but may pull out anyway ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 So you are saying they are spending a quarter of a billion pounds but may pull out anyway ?They are planning to spend a quarter of a billion pounds, and yes, if they don't like the brexit deal, they won't spend a quarter of a billion pounds. It's in black and white. As I've said, they have put their money on the table. They are buying the brexit they like. So much for sovereignty hey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 They are planning to spend a quarter of a billion pounds, and yes, if they don't like the brexit deal, they won't spend a quarter of a billion pounds. It's in black and white. As I've said, they have put their money on the table. They are buying the brexit they like. So much for sovereignty hey. OK so you are saying they are actually going to wait 2 years before investing that money, what leads you to that conclusion ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collie Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) an opinion based on what? nothing but wishful thinking, we have no idea what kind of arrangement the UK will come to with the EU, so any predictions at the moment can only be based on personal prejudice. Yes it is an opinion (hence IMO). I believe it is an informed one, it is based on over 20 years working in financial services in Europe and Australia and reading more than the Daily Mail and looking beyond the immigration arguement to possible (if not probable) economic consequences. In my past roles I have written Business Continuity plans for banks for various scenarios which is exactly what will be happening in every large business in the UK. Business hates uncertainty and risk which is what exists right now. They will seek to remove uncertainty and mitigate risk. They won't wait for whatever the deal is (trade deals can take decades to negotiate). In the absence of a deal the WTO rules apply. It is certainly not wishful thinking, I have no desire to see Britain decline (well maybe in sport ). I have many friends and family living & working in the UK who are worried for their futures in a post Brexit UK. Also, as an Irishman who grew up through the troubles, the impact of the return of the border in Northern Ireland is concerning (a point rarely mentioned in the British press but very much a concern in both Northern & Southern Ireland). Britain & Ireland were frequently on the same side during EU various negotiations and post Brexit, Ireland's bargaining power will be weakened. Britain is a massive market for Irish exports, particulalry agriculture and the impacts of tarriffs could be devasting for the Irish Agriculture Industry. You seem more interested in playing the man rather than the ball (a tactic when your argument is weak or can't be well articulated) so I'm going to bow out now. Enjoy your weekend Edited March 17, 2017 by Collie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calNgary Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I have removed a few posts to try an tidy the thread abit, please refrain from making personal comments or infractions will be given. Cal x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 We have many friends and family in the UK, the majority seem to have voted out and none seem worried about the future of the country or concerned about their standard of living dropping post Brexit. Those who voted remain will of course express concern because the vote didn't go their way so it affects the way they think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 OK so you are saying they are actually going to wait 2 years before investing that money, what leads you to that conclusion ?Do you know how the real world works? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Yes it is an opinion (hence IMO). I believe it is an informed one, it is based on over 20 years working in financial services in Europe and Australia and reading more than the Daily Mail and looking beyond the immigration arguement to possible (if not probable) economic consequences. In my past roles I have written Business Continuity plans for banks for various scenarios which is exactly what will be happening in every large business in the UK. Business hates uncertainty and risk which is what exists right now. They will seek to remove uncertainty and mitigate risk. They won't wait for whatever the deal is (trade deals can take decades to negotiate). In the absence of a deal the WTO rules apply. It is certainly not wishful thinking, I have no desire to see Britain decline (well maybe in sport ). I have many friends and family living & working in the UK who are worried for their futures in a post Brexit UK. Also, as an Irishman who grew up through the troubles, the impact of the return of the border in Northern Ireland is concerning (a point rarely mentioned in the British press but very much a concern in both Northern & Southern Ireland). Britain & Ireland were frequently on the same side during EU various negotiations and post Brexit, Ireland's bargaining power will be weakened. Britain is a massive market for Irish exports, particulalry agriculture and the impacts of tarriffs could be devasting for the Irish Agriculture Industry. You seem more interested in playing the man rather than the ball (a tactic when your argument is weak or can't be well articulated) so I'm going to bow out now. Enjoy your weekend Shame - as your contribution has been appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 Do you know how the real world works? I could ask whether you could be more condescending but I know you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) I could ask whether you could be more condescending but I know you can.I'm sure they have given themselves sufficient time to evaluate the negotiations as they proceed before over committing themselves. It's a nice axe to hold over Theresa's head. At the end of the day - it's pin money compared to the ten billion they are investing in the US. But it may keep the Tories honest, as they must know the headlines if Toyota reverse it, not to mention Nissan. In many ways - saying we will pull out is an empty bluff. It is much easier to withdraw something promised, than something already given. Negotiations 101. Edited March 17, 2017 by newjez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amibovered Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Enjoy your weekend Thank you, you too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallyman Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) Yes it is an opinion (hence IMO). I believe it is an informed one, it is based on over 20 years working in financial services in Europe and Australia and reading more than the Daily Mail and looking beyond the immigration arguement to possible (if not probable) economic consequences. In my past roles I have written Business Continuity plans for banks for various scenarios which is exactly what will be happening in every large business in the UK. Business hates uncertainty and risk which is what exists right now. They will seek to remove uncertainty and mitigate risk. They won't wait for whatever the deal is (trade deals can take decades to negotiate). In the absence of a deal the WTO rules apply. It is certainly not wishful thinking, I have no desire to see Britain decline (well maybe in sport ). I have many friends and family living & working in the UK who are worried for their futures in a post Brexit UK. Also, as an Irishman who grew up through the troubles, the impact of the return of the border in Northern Ireland is concerning (a point rarely mentioned in the British press but very much a concern in both Northern & Southern Ireland). Britain & Ireland were frequently on the same side during EU various negotiations and post Brexit, Ireland's bargaining power will be weakened. Britain is a massive market for Irish exports, particulalry agriculture and the impacts of tarriffs could be devasting for the Irish Agriculture Industry. You seem more interested in playing the man rather than the ball (a tactic when your argument is weak or can't be well articulated) so I'm going to bow out now. Enjoy your weekend Interesting what you have written , but speaking as a layman I hate the banks as in reality most don't live in the real word.They ( the banks ) created the GFC back in 08 and we the general public have picked up and cleaned the mess up by bailing them out. I don't doubt that large business are feeling nervous as this situation has never been breached before. No doubt meetings have been going on at high level with government ,maybe you are privy to such meetings but in all honesty are things going to be worse than the GFC I doubt it. There will be winners and losers but I feel it's going to be a win for the uk overall,you say it's going to be devastating for the Irish farmers, may be its time the uk looked after its own and not other countries . Edited March 17, 2017 by Rallyman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 Interesting what you have written , but speaking as a layman I hate the banks as in reality most don't live in the real word.They ( the banks ) created the GFC back in 08 and we the general public have picked up and cleaned the mess up by bailing them out.I don't doubt that large business are feeling nervous as this situation has never been breached before. No doubt meetings have been going on at high level with government ,maybe you are privy to such meetings but in all honesty are things going to be worse than the GFC I doubt it. There will be winners and losers but I feel it's going to be a win for the uk overall,you say it's going to be devastating for the Irish farmers, may be its time the uk looked after its own and not other countries . Like, like and like again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Interesting what you have written , but speaking as a layman I hate the banks as in reality most don't live in the real word.They ( the banks ) created the GFC back in 08 and we the general public have picked up and cleaned the mess up by bailing them out.I don't doubt that large business are feeling nervous as this situation has never been breached before. No doubt meetings have been going on at high level with government ,maybe you are privy to such meetings but in all honesty are things going to be worse than the GFC I doubt it. There will be winners and losers but I feel it's going to be a win for the uk overall,you say it's going to be devastating for the Irish farmers, may be its time the uk looked after its own and not other countries . you're in Australia. We haven't recovered from the GFC and it's ten years on. Being only as bad as the GFC isn't something I'm looking forward to. I would also say that the politicians are as, or more to blame than the banks. They gave the baby the gun. Although my wife tells me she voted to leave as she also hates banks. You're opinion of it being a win for the UK is irrelevant as we don't know what form the exit will take. All we do know is that the risk has increased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 you're in Australia. We haven't recovered from the GFC and it's ten years on. Being only as bad as the GFC isn't something I'm looking forward to. I would also say that the politicians are as, or more to blame than the banks. They gave the baby the gun. Although my wife tells me she voted to leave as she also hates banks. You're opinion of it being a win for the UK is irrelevant as we don't know what form the exit will take. All we do know is that the risk has increased. His opinion is no more irrelevant than yours or others that you have agreed with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallyman Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 you're in Australia. We haven't recovered from the GFC and it's ten years on. Being only as bad as the GFC isn't something I'm looking forward to. I would also say that the politicians are as, or more to blame than the banks. They gave the baby the gun. Although my wife tells me she voted to leave as she also hates banks. You're opinion of it being a win for the UK is irrelevant as we don't know what form the exit will take. All we do know is that the risk has increased. Been in uk for last 3 weeks so more up to speed than you think ,also with business interests still in uk I keep my self up to speed so I feel as qualified as you to have a opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slean Wolfhead Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) What would you expect him to have said?look at what he did, not what he said. They invested 2.5 billion in 2015, last year was 1.66 billion. This announcement of a injection of a 250 million investment is BAU, they need to invest every year to keep going. What he's saying is that this is dependent on them being able to do business in future, because as yet...NOTHING HAS CHANGED. It's a vote of confidence in today and tomorrow, not 2 years time. This is from this weeks Exiting The European Union Committee: Davis to Benn "presumption of No Deal is literally that a presumption of WTO Most Favoured Nation status, which means there will be tariffs" Benn: Have you made an economic estimate of No Deal? Davis: Under my time, No. Benn: Given this do you think leaving with no deal would be bad? Davis: havent mentioned upsides, for 60% trade could relax things other way Benn: so there will be tariffs, so e.g. UK producers of dairy and meat will be facing 30-40% tariffs, cars 10%? Davis: Approximately correct 85% of the car parts come from the EU. We bolt them together and send them a complete car back, and the EU will charge us 10% for the privilege, wiping out the Toyota profit margin. So either the UK Government subsidises Toyota and pays the 10% for them, or they move away as soon as the deal is signed. Why would the UK subsidise the car manufacturer when that's totally against policy and was the main reason for Rover sinking because we wouldn't do it, and 10,000 were put out of work? It's the exact opposite of Tory policy and the only way it can work is if they cut wages, cut contract and workers rights, and force the bottom end of society to take less. That isn't a success and makes you worse off than before. Edited March 17, 2017 by Slean Wolfhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 Been in uk for last 3 weeks so more up to speed than you think ,also with business interests still in uk I keep my self up to speed so I feel as qualified as you to have a opinion Yes you have probably noticed we are open for business and the scaremongering and doom and gloom is coming from those who just can't accept democracy unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 They invested 2.5 billion in 2015, last year was 1.66 billion. This announcement of a injection of a 250 million investment is BAU, they need to invest every year to keep going. What he's saying is that this is dependent on them being able to do business in future, because as yet...NOTHING HAS CHANGED. It's a vote of confidence in today and tomorrow, not 2 years time.This is from this weeks Exiting The European Union Committee: Davis to Benn "presumption of No Deal is literally that a presumption of WTO Most Favoured Nation status, which means there will be tariffs" Benn: Have you made an economic estimate of No Deal? Davis: Under my time, No. Benn: Given this do you think leaving with no deal would be bad? Davis: havent mentioned upsides, for 60% trade could relax things other way Benn: so there will be tariffs, so e.g. UK producers of dairy and meat will be facing 30-40% tariffs, cars 10%? Davis: Approximately correct 85% of the car parts come from the EU. We bolt them together and send them a complete car back, and the EU will charge us 10% for the privilege, wiping out the Toyota profit margin. So either the UK Government subsidises Toyota and pays the 10% for them, or they move away as soon as the deal is signed. Why would the UK subsidise the car manufacturer when that's totally against policy and was the main reason for Rover sinking because we wouldn't do it, and 10,000 were put out of work? It's the exact opposite of Tory policy and the only way it can work is if they cut wages, cut contract and workers rights, and force the bottom end of society to take less. That isn't a success and makes you worse off than before. I'm not sure where you are getting your figures but according to Toyota ' Toyota’s £100 million investment will feed directly into tooling and equipment at the Burnaston vehicle plant, taking Toyota’s total investment in its UK manufacturing business to more than £2.1 billion since it was established as the company’s first European production centre in 1989' There is no way in the world they could invest 250m a year just to keep going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolman Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 85% of the car parts come from the EU. We bolt them together and send them a complete car back, and the EU will charge us 10% for the privilege, wiping out the Toyota profit margin. So either the UK Government subsidises Toyota and pays the 10% for them, or they move away as soon as the deal is signed. Why would the UK subsidise the car manufacturer when that's totally against policy and was the main reason for Rover sinking because we wouldn't do it, and 10,000 were put out of work? It's the exact opposite of Tory policy and the only way it can work is if they cut wages, cut contract and workers rights, and force the bottom end of society to take less. That isn't a success and makes you worse off than before. Again, no. Toyota probably produce more of the car in the UK than most of the other manufacturers. Toyota Manufacturing UK is the United Kingdom manufacturing operation of Toyota, established in December 1989. The vehicle manufacturing plant at Burnaston, Derbyshire, assembles cars. On 16 December 1992, the first car rolled off the production line, which was a Carina E. Since then, production has included Avensis, Corolla, and Auris models. An engine manufacturing factory is located on Deeside, North Wales.[1] As of September 2016, the two factories employ 3,800 staff. The processes at Burnaston include stamping (pressing panels from rolls of steel), welding, painting, plastic mouldings (bumpers and instrument panels/dashboards) and assembly and at Deeside machining, assembly and aluminium casting.[2] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peach Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Again, no. Toyota probably produce more of the car in the UK than most of the other manufacturers. Toyota Manufacturing UK is the United Kingdom manufacturing operation of Toyota, established in December 1989. The vehicle manufacturing plant at Burnaston, Derbyshire, assembles cars. On 16 December 1992, the first car rolled off the production line, which was a Carina E. Since then, production has included Avensis, Corolla, and Auris models. An engine manufacturing factory is located on Deeside, North Wales.[1] As of September 2016, the two factories employ 3,800 staff. The processes at Burnaston include stamping (pressing panels from rolls of steel), welding, painting, plastic mouldings (bumpers and instrument panels/dashboards) and assembly and at Deeside machining, assembly and aluminium casting.[2] For Toyota, the answer does seem to be clear cut: Toyota Manufacturing UK has 260 parts and materials suppliers based in the UK and Europe. In addition to these parts and components supplier, we have around 800 suppliers providing supplies and site services to our two UK plants. These suppliers are predominantly UK based and many are sourced from the local areas around our plants in Derbyshire and Flintshire, North Wales. http://www.toyotauk.com/toyota-in-the-uk/supplier-relations.html However the FT makes the follow statement: the vast majority of materials that go into British-built cars are imported. https://www.ft.com/content/c397f174-9205-11e6-a72e-b428cb934b78 It also gives examples of parts being manufactured in UK, get sent to Europe for processing and then get sent back to the UK. So I would say Slean's argument has been upheld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunbury61 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Do you know how the real world works? Yeah I do ...i go to work ...sift out the bullshit ...make money ....and care not a jot ...hows that Mrs Merkel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Been in uk for last 3 weeks so more up to speed than you think ,also with business interests still in uk I keep my self up to speed so I feel as qualified as you to have a opinion well then you should know better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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