Is it feasible for one's retired parents to join us?

[Herbster]

We've been PRs in Tas nearly 9-years and my partner's 70-plus year-old parent's are with us on vacation here 'till Feb '17 and loving it. Their only other child is a NZ PR currently applying for citizenship; she's had her interview and would never return to UK (her younger brother is currently going thru' that process here in Aus.)

As the Visas keep changing I am unsure if it feasible or possible for my in-laws to migrate to Australia? They are not rich - nor are we, but we are settled and happy and I could imagine my in-laws enjoying it here too and we are their only close family.

 

I'm sure there must be members who have gone through this process? I do understand the one visa has a 30-year waiting list - but how would that be any use to them?! What is the current/are the current possibilities - in a nutshell?!! Who can share the lessons? Perhaps there is a way, or is it just a hopeless pipe dream that would cost an arm & a leg: - anyway, if you KNOW could you let us know - Thank you :confused:

Herbster - now in the beautiful NW of Tassie :cool:

[Quoll]

Contributory Parent Visa - it seems the balance of their family will be in Australia when your younger sibling gets a visa. It's easy enough - around $50-60k per person and much more secure than waiting on a bridging visa and hoping your circumstances don't change in the waiting time. They could go home and lodge their application, consider if they want to sell or let their home and then be in a position to move when it becomes available. But they will need to be financially secure, Australia is not kind to older citizens let alone aliens at the best of times and living in poverty on the other side of the world from all they have known and grown probably isn't going to appeal much to them.

[ramot]

Contributory Parent Visa - it seems the balance of their family will be in Australia when your younger sibling gets a visa. It's easy enough - around $50-60k per person and much more secure than waiting on a bridging visa and hoping your circumstances don't change in the waiting time. They could go home and lodge their application, consider if they want to sell or let their home and then be in a position to move when it becomes available. But they will need to be financially secure, Australia is not kind to older citizens let alone aliens at the best of times and living in poverty on the other side of the world from all they have known and grown probably isn't going to appeal much to them.

 

Out of interest why do you say Australia isn't kind to older citizens? I appreciate I am not a citizen, but do live in Oz and am in my 70's and know loads and loads of similar and older citizens. I don't hear them complaining? One friend has recently had a bad stroke, the house has been fitted with all the aids needed, they were charged cost price for items but no labour, whereas it would all be free in UK, but the cost was minimal another friend sadly has terminal cancer and you can't fault her treatment.

We have home assist here which even we can use.

I agree that you are expected to pay for more things here than UK, but perhaps some parents are better off (not necessarily financially) having the back up of close family?

Obviously no one should be made to move, but a sad fact of live is, that if you have no family left in UK to help as you get older, then sadly your friends are also getting older and less able to help?

I know you went back to UK to look after your parents, but not everyone is in that position, so the best decisions have to be made in individual circumstances.

 

The cost of the visa is not cheap, but justified if an older person moves here who hasn't ever paid taxes etc. as we certainly cost the health service more as we age.

I do sympathise as we are weighing up the pros and cons of changing to the parent visa now that we can.

Edited December 2, 2016 by ramot

[Que Sera Sera]

Aged care does a roaring trade here so even those on a very limited budget are cared for either wholly or partially depending on circumstances. Community Care is exceptional in my experience.

[Quoll]

Out of interest why do you say Australia isn't kind to older citizens? I appreciate I am not a citizen, but do live in Oz and am in my 70's and know loads and loads of similar and older citizens. I don't hear them complaining? One friend has recently had a bad stroke, the house has been fitted with all the aids needed, they were charged cost price for items but no labour, whereas it would all be free in UK, but the cost was minimal another friend sadly has terminal cancer and you can't fault her treatment.

We have home assist here which even we can use.

I agree that you are expected to pay for more things here than UK, but perhaps some parents are better off (not necessarily financially) having the back up of close family?

Obviously no one should be made to move, but a sad fact of live is, that if you have no family left in UK to help as you get older, then sadly your friends are also getting older and less able to help?

I know you went back to UK to look after your parents, but not everyone is in that position, so the best decisions have to be made in individual circumstances.

 

The cost of the visa is not cheap, but justified if an older person moves here who hasn't ever paid taxes etc. as we certainly cost the health service more as we age.

I do sympathise as we are weighing up the pros and cons of changing to the parent visa now that we can.

 

If you have money it's fine but if you are reliant on a frozen income then it'll be more of a struggle and new incomers are restricted as to the services they can get. I'm finding there is much more "free" here in UK that I know my MiL had to pay for. Incomers (rightly) can't access Centrelink benefits for a period of time. I'm so used to user pays that here I am often quite gobsmacked by what is offered for free.

 

I have absolutely no problem with parents making the choice to move (I have much more difficulty with the ones who are forced to move!) and in their 70s they're probably young enough to make the decision for themselves and are independent enough that they can establish some sort of social network but most things cost money and if you are living on a shoestring it's not that easy. Even getting into supported accommodation can be fiendishly expensive (in our area it's eye watertingly expensive - I've just been having this discussion with a friend!).

 

Getting old is, most certainly, no picnic no matter where you are and making the decision about where you want to spend your old age is a hard one. Some people have built up amazing social networks over a lifetime, others haven't; some have supportive family, others haven't and that's the same wherever you are. One thing I saw a lot in Australia (because of the work I was latterly doing, and it surprised me I must say) was the number of elderly people who became compulsive gamblers - they went to the Club because of the cheap meals and invitations to gamble and got hooked on the pokies and they were in a bad way, struggling to make ends meet they just made things 100% worse! The way the Clubs targeted them really surprised (and angered) me but for many it was almost their only affordable social inclusivity - very sad little cohort.

[ramot]

I think the only pension that is frozen is the state pension. Depending on the type of work over a life time lots of people have separate pensions as well.

Ours are index linked, and for life, so they keep fairly up with inflation.

The exchange rate does affect your income, but over our 13 years here, it has probably evened out. Good years and bad ones.

 

I think going into care is expensive wherever you are.

My mother had to sell her house in UK, and everything she had saved all her life for was eaten up in fees, apart from the few thousand you are allowed to be left with.

[Fisher1]

To be fair, Herbster didn't actually say that his parents in law were either living on a shoe string or that they were obliged to move. what he said was that they "weren't rich" and that he could see them being happy in Oz, which isn't quite the same thing.

 

For what it's worth Herbster, my husband an I were granted a parents visa earlier this year and although we are currently still in the UK we plan to move over next year. I have had second, third and fourth thoughts about the move, especially since the drop in the pound! But we have done our figures and paid for a tax summary and believe we will be able to live quite comfortably once we have bought a property and are settled, so we are going for it.

 

Can I suggest you look on the parents visa thread, where you will find everything you ever wanted to know about getting parents to Australia. good luck!

[Herbster]

Thanks for offering thoughts or advice - it could be, that aged/retired parents who have given all due consideration to such a move, would sell-up, make appropriate arrangements, then come over on a visitor's Visa, and apply when here? (Providing the provision hasn't been axed by Government edict?) The Politics of relocating aren't especially in the mix here, as my In-Laws have moved dozens of times throughout their married life, so don't have the traditional network of friends or family & although living in town are actually pretty isolated, although their current location suits them to the degree that they can walk to the Dr's when necessary. However, I'd never dismiss the 'comfort' of knowing what kind of medical support is available as being a deciding factor in such a move, any more than, do they honestly want to blow a wadge of their financial security on what could be another expensive (!!) move... I shall tell them what I have learned & let them decide - it's not like moving to France or Spain, I think there'd be no-going-back... but on the other hand, as they become older, slower, less able with no family or friend network, not being a Spring Chicken myself any longer, these are things that occur to me nowadays...! I'm grateful for any other suggestions, insights - enjoy your day!

[Que Sera Sera]

Good luck @Herbster hope it works out for you all.

[Ruth7862]

I work in Social Care in the UK and I can tell you with some certainty that the UK is not kind to its older citizens. You are okay if you have money as that gives a degree of choice however good care is expensive. If you have no resources you will get help but it is extremely limited to the most needy. Social Care funding has been cut to the bone resulting in older people being stuck in hospital when medically fit for discharge because Social Care doesn't have the resources to fund a care package or residential care. It was never good but has been in steep decline the last few years.

[Fisher1]

I work in Social Care in the UK and I can tell you with some certainty that the UK is not kind to its older citizens. You are okay if you have money as that gives a degree of choice however good care is expensive. If you have no resources you will get help but it is extremely limited to the most needy. Social Care funding has been cut to the bone resulting in older people being stuck in hospital when medically fit for discharge because Social Care doesn't have the resources to fund a care package or residential care. It was never good but has been in steep decline the last few years.

 

 

I have to agree with Ruth about growing old in the UK having seen at first hand the difficulties of getting social care for my extremely frail and confused mother. I came back from Belgium to be closer to her and she is the reason I am not yet in Australia. We were lucky, my mum has the money from her house, also she was very old before she started to go seriously downhill - but wading through the options for social care is horrendous, especially when the spectre of Alzheimer's sets in. We live in a generous county so mum has been lucky all the way round really but she has still had to sell up and will spend every penny she and dad worked for on her care home. If you don't have a house to sell you are at the mercy of the local budget and may have to struggle on at home with social care visits or have no say in which home you go to or when you go to live there. with an ageing population this is only going to get worse. Surely Australia can't be any worse than this?

[ramot]

Thanks for offering thoughts or advice - it could be, that aged/retired parents who have given all due consideration to such a move, would sell-up, make appropriate arrangements, then come over on a visitor's Visa, and apply when here? (Providing the provision hasn't been axed by Government edict?) The Politics of relocating aren't especially in the mix here, as my In-Laws have moved dozens of times throughout their married life, so don't have the traditional network of friends or family & although living in town are actually pretty isolated, although their current location suits them to the degree that they can walk to the Dr's when necessary. However, I'd never dismiss the 'comfort' of knowing what kind of medical support is available as being a deciding factor in such a move, any more than, do they honestly want to blow a wadge of their financial security on what could be another expensive (!!) move... I shall tell them what I have learned & let them decide - it's not like moving to France or Spain, I think there'd be no-going-back... but on the other hand, as they become older, slower, less able with no family or friend network, not being a Spring Chicken myself any longer, these are things that occur to me nowadays...! I'm grateful for any other suggestions, insights - enjoy your day!

 

 

I think I am about the only long term poster who retired here and posts? So I can only speak for ourselves but we love our life here and have no regrets about retiring here.

We retired to Oz on the 410 retirement visa, (not available since 2005) after being ex pats nearly 14 years ago. All our three children were in UK then, but we weren't ready or keen to go back there. Do prefer a sunny climate

We love living here (the Sunshine Coast) we were made very welcome, we were also used to moving around so knew we had to make the effort.

 

Since we moved here, 2 of our children have followed us, met their partners here, and settled.

 

As another poster mentioned the parent visa thread is a very useful one, but not many seem to post much once they have their visas, so thought I would post a positive one.

 

All the best with your parents decision.

[Quoll]

Thanks for offering thoughts or advice - it could be, that aged/retired parents who have given all due consideration to such a move, would sell-up, make appropriate arrangements, then come over on a visitor's Visa, and apply when here? (Providing the provision hasn't been axed by Government edict?) The Politics of relocating aren't especially in the mix here, as my In-Laws have moved dozens of times throughout their married life, so don't have the traditional network of friends or family & although living in town are actually pretty isolated, although their current location suits them to the degree that they can walk to the Dr's when necessary. However, I'd never dismiss the 'comfort' of knowing what kind of medical support is available as being a deciding factor in such a move, any more than, do they honestly want to blow a wadge of their financial security on what could be another expensive (!!) move... I shall tell them what I have learned & let them decide - it's not like moving to France or Spain, I think there'd be no-going-back... but on the other hand, as they become older, slower, less able with no family or friend network, not being a Spring Chicken myself any longer, these are things that occur to me nowadays...! I'm grateful for any other suggestions, insights - enjoy your day!

Visitors visas aren't meant for an intended migration and if Immigration believe that that may be the intention they run the risk of being sent straight back and banned for 3 years. The most straightforward option is to just apply for the CPV and get on with it - not that long a wait these days.

[Bungo]

Thanks for offering thoughts or advice - it could be, that aged/retired parents who have given all due consideration to such a move, would sell-up, make appropriate arrangements, then come over on a visitor's Visa, and apply when here? (Providing the provision hasn't been axed by Government edict?) The Politics of relocating aren't especially in the mix here, as my In-Laws have moved dozens of times throughout their married life, so don't have the traditional network of friends or family & although living in town are actually pretty isolated, although their current location suits them to the degree that they can walk to the Dr's when necessary. However, I'd never dismiss the 'comfort' of knowing what kind of medical support is available as being a deciding factor in such a move, any more than, do they honestly want to blow a wadge of their financial security on what could be another expensive (!!) move... I shall tell them what I have learned & let them decide - it's not like moving to France or Spain, I think there'd be no-going-back... but on the other hand, as they become older, slower, less able with no family or friend network, not being a Spring Chicken myself any longer, these are things that occur to me nowadays...! I'm grateful for any other suggestions, insights - enjoy your day!

 

There has never been a "provision" to come over on a visitor visa and apply in Australia. This is simply a risk some people choose to take, but certainly arriving on a one way ticket and all ones worldly goods might provoke some attention at immigration and result in being denied entry. Selling up the home with nothing more than a tourist visa in hand is not something I would chose to do but others have. I think that you / they should understand that it is not legitimate and is a risk though - not least so they dont shoot themselves in the foot when they are carrying out the plan.

[Herbster]

Yes, I suspected that - I certainly wouldn't suggest any one arrive here toting All Their Worldlies in the expectation of being welcomed with open arms! Sorry for being so flippant - all these Visa applications are a pretty long-drawn out affair...

I suppose I hoped perhaps there was a "simpler" pathway for retired parents (if they met the stipulations), beyond having a super swag bag of dosh.

Emigrating is a life changer, and once one's over 70, those sorts of changes are going to become less possible, attractive or desirable - it's just the actual reality of one's Mum & Dad being 'on their own' in their dotage suddenly becomes concerning, even worrying... And I guess it's natural to want to share & support...

[Roberta2]

Everyone in Australia is entitled to an aged care place if assessed to be in need of one. The aged care sector is about half private and half non for profit (mostly churches). Aged care homes are required to reserve about 14% of their places for pensioners. Certainly, if you have no money you have much less choice, but you do get a place. When older people are discharged from hospital, and are assessed to be in need of care, they are moved to transition places until a bed in an aged care facility comes up. (I call this The Holding Pen. A friend has her 94 year old mother, who has broken her hip, in one right now. It's fine.) If you do have money, the government mandates upper limits on what you can be charged for your care- a Means Tested Care fee $25,000 per year with a lifetime cap of $60,000. (My mother has just reached this, wooopee!!) Now she will pay only what pensioners pay. As to accommodation, there is now an upper limit of $550,000, all of which eventually goes back to the estate. It's all on The My Aged Care website.

[Bridgeman]

If you wanted your parents to be in Australia while they wait for their visa to be granted there are 2 options

 

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/864- - this cost quite a lot but the processing time is currently 6-12 months I understand.

 

or

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/804- which is less expensive but has a long waiting list.

 

In either case, after application your parents would be granted a bridging visa to allow them to stay in Australia till their visa was granted. There are downsides to this, however, as they would not be entitled to full Medicare or any benefits.

 

It might be worth having a consultation with Alan Collett of Go Matilda, who is a respected migration agent and can advise better on what the options are and the visa strategy.

[Petals]

Everyone in Australia is entitled to an aged care place if assessed to be in need of one. The aged care sector is about half private and half non for profit (mostly churches). Aged care homes are required to reserve about 14% of their places for pensioners. Certainly, if you have no money you have much less choice, but you do get a place. When older people are discharged from hospital, and are assessed to be in need of care, they are moved to transition places until a bed in an aged care facility comes up. (I call this The Holding Pen. A friend has her 94 year old mother, who has broken her hip, in one right now. It's fine.) If you do have money, the government mandates upper limits on what you can be charged for your care- a Means Tested Care fee $25,000 per year with a lifetime cap of $60,000. (My mother has just reached this, wooopee!!) Now she will pay only what pensioners pay. As to accommodation, there is now an upper limit of $550,000, all of which eventually goes back to the estate. It's all on The My Aged Care website.

 

This may be the case for some lucky people however I think its very difficult to get a place if you have no house to sell. The good care homes with good amenity take people with the cash first every time. I know my mum has just gone into care at 97. We have been looking for a few years now. Fortunately she did not need it urgently. Urgent places for people on low income tend to be in shared rooms, not so nice facilities etc. I think the aged care stinks it leans towards those with money. Where my mum is there are people who could actually still be in their own homes, drive cars for example, but you see they have the $400,000.00 that is required to get in. Now this is not supposed to happen but does it. Some of the hostels and homes I contacted who are not for profit, would not entertain my mum because she did not have 500,000 or whatever they wanted. They do not care, no-one complains, families just struggle on. The lucky old people with no money are the ones that lose their marbles because they do not care if they are in a shared room etc. That said my mum is in a very good hostel now but her name was on a list for over 10 years and she was assessed as needing ongoing care. Only because the English lass phoned me and asked me if Mum would be interested as the room was a bit smaller and that was the reason she got it. Do not kid yourselves its horrible in aged care here and its a horrible divisive system. They wanted $450,000.00 to have my husband who was paralised and then I would have to pay extra for the nurses etc. So is that compassionate I don't think so.