Should I stay or should I go?

[northshorepom]

I refer the OP to the above posts. See what I mean about this site?

 

You contributed to the reaction to your post in the way you wrote it, of course. Self fulfilling prophecy

[Gbye grey sky]

I wouldn't place too much emphasis on opinions from this site, it's not really subjective and can be overly negative.

I don't agree that 49 is too old to embrace change. And there is more to a child's upbringing than maths.

Whilst it is true that much of Australia is suffering a downturn at the moment, a lot of people are still thriving here. Only you know what's best for your family but if you don't go you might regret it.

The brutal truth is you should have moved whilst your kids were younger. We have nieces and nephews over here ranging from 3 to 22 and, in my opinion, the younger they are the better. Australia is brilliant for little uns, less so for teens and older, I'd say. And yeah, a lot of new migrants struggle for that first job. But you never know, you might land a job and your kids might love it. Who knows?

 

All opinions are subjective aren't they, even yours?

 

I was 54 moving over and have embraced the change so agree with that. Luckily we are financially secure and earning potential was not a factor for me as there is no chance of coming close to my UK income - but for me that was not the point.

 

We brought an 11 year old over. She was thriving in the UK and is thriving here too. We were anxious to try to ensure she would not be worse off by the move....but we made the move because it was what we wanted.

 

As Marissa says it is completely impossible to forecast your children's future. All you can do is to take care of their present needs and encourage them to take whatever opportunities that are on offer and there are plenty in the UK and in Australia.

[Guest The Pom Queen]

We moved over with 3 children, 2 have done really well for themselves and the other as done nothing with his life. I think a lot of it is down to your children as well as the country they are raised.

I do feel Australia as provided my children with more opportunities and a better future and I know none of them have any wish to return to the UK.

At the end of the day we can all argue until we are blue in the face what we feel is best for our children but none of us know what the future holds. We, as parents just have to work with what we have.

 

Do I think Australia is for you, to be honest probably not. Although saying that living here already I would move out when I was 60 if there was a way, she wouldn't stop me.

[Marisawright]

This might help.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1257165/Britain-voted-worst-place-world-bring-children-Australia-best.html

 

That's from 2010, and it's based on a survey of expats. Not exactly a scientific study and already 6 years out of date.

 

Also again, it refers to "raising children". That is not what the OP asked about. He asked about his children's future. You are being deliberately obtuse as usual.

[Keith and Linda]

If that's the case for the majority of migrants these days, no wonder so many of them end up going home!

 

I'm sure there have always been people who emigrated for the adventure, or because they were discontented in spite of having a comfortable life. But in the old days, many people migrated because times were hard in their home country and they were doing it tough. When my aunt and uncle moved in the fifties, they did it because there was no work at home. And when we moved in the eighties, I hadn't been able to get a permanent job in two years. When you've got nothing much to go back to, it makes it easier to settle.

 

My post was in response to Flag saying he could not understand why anybody would take the risk? I was just pointing out that really the risk does not put people off, but just about everybody that are Emigrating to a country with no home to go to and no job either, generally leaving a settled life and family friends behind (which I think would be over 95% of migrants) is taking, then lets call it an adventurist risk, that risk though for some materializes, but not by any means for all! so yes still they come regardless of risk (not sure that Flag would understand why they do though?).

I would say that backpackers take more the adventure with little risk view whilst families take the risk with a little adventure thrown in.

[Guest The Pom Queen]

I refer the OP to the above posts. See what I mean about this site?

George at the end of the day we can't expect everyone to have the same opinion as ourselves. I like reading other sides of the argument. Positives and negatives of a situation are what makes this site work. You can read the negatives and weigh them up with your own personal thoughts. At least if it doesn't work out you realise you aren't alone.

[calNgary]

If you, wife and kids are up for it 100% i would say go for it.. Yes its a tough age to move kids, i have met a few families who have moved with mid to late teens and the first year really does test them, funnily enough none of them went on to return to the UK and all are now happily settled here in Aus.

 

Secondly, you must all be open to change and willing to adapt, yes its English speaking over here but many things require you drop your British ways and try to fit in with Australian ways and values.

 

Work wise,, your the migrant, so dont expect to pick up where you left off on the job front,if you do,, Bonus ! but most migrants take a step down and have to prove themselves. It works out for many,with lots of people i know ending up being supervisors or managers after a year or two but not everyone likes the idea of not being 'top dog' from day one,when thats what they are used to.

Job availability very much depends on your profession and attitude and vacancies vary massively State to State even within States sometimes.

 

Cal x

[Marisawright]

 

My post was in response to Flag saying he could not understand why anybody would take the risk? I was just pointing out that really the risk does not put people off, but just about everybody that are Emigrating to a country with no home to go to and no job either, generally leaving a settled life and family friends behind

 

I am beginning to realise that is the case for many British migrants these days, which is why I often scratch my head as to why people are doing it!

 

In the olden days when I was a lass :smile:, the migrants I knew moved because they didn't have a nice settled life where they were! They took the risk and left their families because they had little or no chance of affording a decent house or getting a secure job, for instance, whereas Australia then offered a very good prospect of both those things. The financial advantages were so much more clear-cut then, they are not now IMO.

[Keith and Linda]

George at the end of the day we can't expect everyone to have the same opinion as ourselves. I like reading other sides of the argument. Positives and negatives of a situation are what makes this site work. You can read the negatives and weigh them up with your own personal thoughts. At least if it doesn't work out you realise you aren't alone.

 

Trouble is the negatives always voice a stronger opinion. almost to the point that it is in their belief the only correct version of how things are. Also those with negatives do tend to post more often than those with positives views.

I would hazard a guess that more emigrants remain than return.

 

OK just googled some statistics a random pick and it gave 2011/12............PR visa and 457 visa approx. 25,000 entries from UK, with approx. 7,000 with same visa returning which is roughly a 75% satisfaction rate! something which is not reflected in the posts on this forum.

[Keith and Linda]

I am beginning to realise that is the case for many British migrants these days, which is why I often scratch my head as to why people are doing it!

 

In the olden days when I was a lass :smile:, the migrants I knew moved because they didn't have a nice settled life where they were! They took the risk and left their families because they had little or no chance of affording a decent house or getting a secure job, for instance, whereas Australia then offered a very good prospect of both those things. The financial advantages were so much more clear-cut then, they are not now IMO.

 

Olden days for me is only 1999, as a family it was a risk on several fronts then, and that was in the full knowledge that I would be on a lot lower wage, and wondering how would the kids cope? today I think most would be getting a better wage, so not a big a risk? kids coping remains the same.

[northshorepom]

Trouble is the negatives always voice a stronger opinion. almost to the point that it is in their belief the only correct version of how things are. Also those with negatives do tend to post more often than those with positives views.

Not this load of old toot again. No one is even in an objective place to make this judgement. Your perception is that because it's always the PoV that doesn't chime with one's own that rankles or is even noticed. At the end of the day, does it even matter? OP was in two minds and asking for peoples' opinions, and that's what they got for the first page or two. Then it descended into people arguing about who was right....

I would hazard a guess that more emigrants remain than return.

That's a simple matter of fact, but again barely relevant to the OP's original question. Let it go. Just let people give their answer to the OP

[Marisawright]

Olden days for me is only 1999, as a family it was a risk on several fronts then, and that was in the full knowledge that I would be on a lot lower wage, and wondering how would the kids cope? today I think most would be getting a better wage, so not a big a risk? kids coping remains the same.

 

From what I've seen on these forums, pay isn't generally better, it works out about the same for most (unless you're in one of a few specific occupations which do very well in Australia).

 

As for more people staying than returning - goodness me, considering the cost and upheaval, I'd certainly hope so! Wanted Down Under used to quote anything from a half to a quarter of all migrants return. If it's a quarter, that still means the average migrant has a 1 in 4 chance of wanting to go home. You wouldn't stand in the road if I said you had a 1 in 4 chance of being hit by a car, would you?

 

I've said this before: I think the "negatives" post because we've all been there and know that so many migrants have stars in their eyes about Australia, so we try to add a bit of reality to the mix. If the OP had was in his twenties and the kids were littlies, our answers would be completely different.

[Parley]

[/b]Not this load of old toot again. No one is even in an objective place to make this judgement. Your perception is that because it's always the PoV that doesn't chime with one's own that rankles or is even noticed. At the end of the day, does it even matter? OP was in two minds and asking for peoples' opinions, and that's what they got for the first page or two. Then it descended into people arguing about who was right....

 

That's a simple matter of fact, but again barely relevant to the OP's original question. Let it go. Just let people give their answer to the OP

 

If you look through the thread people were having their say and that was it until the first positive thread and then you know who wouldn't accept a positive view without arguing.

 

It is a familiar pattern.

[flag of convenience]

 

A safe bet would be over 95% of people emigrating to OZ actually do!

 

Do what? For a person well set up in home nation, with two kids to consider as part of the equation, a move to a far off country, with diminishing potential, is rather a considerable leap of faith in my book.

[flag of convenience]

If you look through the thread people were having their say and that was it until the first positive thread and then you know who wouldn't accept a positive view without arguing.

 

It is a familiar pattern.

 

What it is, is a realistic pattern. Australia has far moved on from the day you stepped off the boat. Sadly not for the better, more people both Aussies and migrants have come to this realisation of course, even if some rather late in the day.

[Booma]

[/b]Not this load of old toot again. No one is even in an objective place to make this judgement. Your perception is that because it's always the PoV that doesn't chime with one's own that rankles or is even noticed. At the end of the day, does it even matter? OP was in two minds and asking for peoples' opinions, and that's what they got for the first page or two. Then it descended into people arguing about who was right....

 

That's a simple matter of fact, but again barely relevant to the OP's original question. Let it go. Just let people give their answer to the OP

 

 

im not so sure it is a load of old toot. ive noticed loads of people stopped posting altogether over the last few months after continuously getting jumped on for saying positives about oz and heaven forbid if you say anything is better in oz. its ok for people to have different thoughts but a handful of posters dominate threads like the post police.

 

for instance i think oz still offers more opportunity for children which is why i decided to start a family here when it was out of the question for us in the uk. ive learned not to say it though because last time i said it the post police were all over me like a rash.

[flag of convenience]

Olden days for me is only 1999, as a family it was a risk on several fronts then, and that was in the full knowledge that I would be on a lot lower wage, and wondering how would the kids cope? today I think most would be getting a better wage, so not a big a risk? kids coping remains the same.

 

Todays Australia bares little comparison with 1999. The rot hadn't quite got under way, but ominous signs were present.

[northshorepom]

If you look through the thread people were having their say and that was it until the first positive thread and then you know who wouldn't accept a positive view without arguing.

No they weren't. Again, that is your skewed perception. Go back and read them again

 

There was a mix of views. The "debate" started when someone positive disagreed with what other posters were saying rather than just give the OP their PoV

 

I'm very happy here and positive about our move. I have no intent to move back to the UK. I wouldn't do it on spec with a 15 year old though, when there's no realistic way back in terms of education. That's why I said what I did

[Marisawright]

i think oz still offers more opportunity for children which is why i decided to start a family here when it was out of the question for us in the uk. ive learned not to say it though because last time i said it the post police were all over me like a rash.

 

Surely you've decided to start a family because you can afford to in Australia, I wouldn't think their career opportunities would've had much bearing on the decision?

 

Of course some things are better in Australia, but some things are worse too. Everyone has to weigh up the scales, and decide which country comes out better on balance for them. Australia works out better for you and for me, too, but that won't be the case for everyone.

[wattsy1982]

heaven forbid if you say anything is better in oz.

 

It works both ways for sure. Id say for every positive Aus post that gets "jumped on" a positive UK post does too.

 

I don't see why one has to be 'better', is it a competition?, is there a prize at the end?!?

 

I gave up getting annoyed ages ago by my posts getting jumped on or beaten down by the 'post police' but what annoys/irritates/baffles me more is why these people are reading/commenting on those threads in the first place if they aren't going to help the OP.

 

I look through this site maybe once a week/fortnight....if the title of the post doesn't appeal/interest/apply or concern me I don't even bother to read the post/thread, let alone post an irrelevant comment which doesn't really answer the OP!

[northshorepom]

im not so sure it is a load of old toot. ive noticed loads of people stopped posting altogether over the last few months after continuously getting jumped on for saying positives about oz and heaven forbid if you say anything is better in oz. its ok for people to have different thoughts but a handful of posters dominate threads like the post police.

 

Maybe they do, I dunno. I stopped posting for ages because I thought there was an excess nobber quotient on here as well.

 

In the case of this thread I believe the criticisms are undue and people are being over defensive. I'm not going to come back on it again though because as per previous, none of this is relevant or helpful to the OP. You guys can carry on if you like

[flag of convenience]

im not so sure it is a load of old toot. ive noticed loads of people stopped posting altogether over the last few months after continuously getting jumped on for saying positives about oz and heaven forbid if you say anything is better in oz. its ok for people to have different thoughts but a handful of posters dominate threads like the post police.

 

for instance i think oz still offers more opportunity for children which is why i decided to start a family here when it was out of the question for us in the uk. ive learned not to say it though because last time i said it the post police were all over me like a rash.

 

The positives way out bid the negatives. There's even a 'sticky' just for positive settlement stories. Some just don't want their boat 'swayed' in any way and for whatever reason 'jump' on those shedding light and a dose of reality to an otherwise staid and anything as long as it is 'positive' commentary.

 

I have never read nor aware of any criticism with regards to children especially. Quite the contrary. Rather when kids get to teenage years attitudes change.

[Bungo]

I was awarded my skilled visa in 2012 at the age of 44, and immediately validated it with a visit to Oz.

The reason for applying for a visa in the first place was not my untold desire to go to Oz but wondering it if might provide a better future for my children than the UK.

After 4 1/2 years ticking over quite nicely in the UK in a well paid quite secure job, my (5 year) visa will expire next Summer.

In the 4 1/2 years since being granted the visa, a lot of things have happened in the UK, not least Brexit. The future, even though I am still in a well paid secure job, is far from certain in the UK and I worry more about my children's future because of Brexit.

I am now at that crossroads where I have a hard fought and valuable visa that will expire and be gone forever if I don't take up this opportunity. Or I could go to Oz, not find a job or a job not as well paid and could be very quickly financially crippling. With my children at the difficult ages of 11 and 15, schooling and exams would also be risk.

The question is, will Oz provide me the quality of life now and in the future I currently have in the UK?

I am 49, and well aware of how lucky I am to have a granted visa when it is now so difficult to come by one, and do not want to waste it! UK or Oz?

The 'just give it go' attitude and 'what have you got to lose' is not the answer I am looking for, there is too much at stake!

 

There is nothing in your post that makes me think you should give Australia a go. You have said you have no untold desire and you have said you don't want to "just give it a go". You appear to want to make a considered decision and in this case it is very hard to come up with a rationale for why you should make the move.

 

Your children are already living in one of the most privileged countries in the world and this isn't going to change anytime soon. The future is always uncertain though, by definition it is uncertain. It is uncertain in UK, it will be uncertain in Australia too.

 

No way of knowing how you will fare in Australia with jobs, it will depend on what you do and your natural ability to network and find work. If you and the whole family had a burning desire to live in Australia it might make the gamble worthwhile but in the absence of that incentive, I am struggling to see the point of giving up what sounds like a comfortable and content life.

 

Holding an unused visa can be a curse I think, it is always there tempting you. Maybe once it has "expired" you will be better able to draw a line under this.

 

It is a shame that this thread has descended into the usual Australia vs UK debate with accusations of negativity. In fact you should know that many of the people that have commented that you should probably stay put are not remotely anti Australia, in fact several are very pro and happy in Australia. But based on what you have said, it doesn't sound like there is any particular reason for you to disrupt everybody and make this move.

[Peachy]

In an attempt to get the thread back on track I am going to actually try and answer the OP's question!

My view is that you have a huge amount to lose and not that much to gain. You haven't moved, for whatever reason, in the last 4.5 years so the drive to get to Australia can't be that great.

Yes, I love the lifestyle here and I think that it is better than the UK

for my family

. In answer to your questions

will Oz provide me the quality of life now and in the future I currently have in the UK?

Probably not. Your quality of life will probably be quite poor to start with if you don't have a job lined up. Your kids may settle really well, or they may not - they are at a slightly tricky age and may be resentful of a move. If you have a good job, happy life and happy children then why move?

 

You may feel that you have missed an opportunity, and you probably will always have that thought if you stay, but life is about choices not regrets. You are unlikely to truly regret not moving to Australia - it is more likely to be a slight yearning for what might have been.

 

Brexit is a sore point but the UK should recover and your kids have a bit of time before they will be in the job market and it certainly isn't carefree on the job market over here.

 

I have been lucky and would encourage almost anyone to move, but in your case you seem to want assurance that all will be okay with a move. It may not be; my advice - don't do it!!

 

 

 

 

 

[evets]

I was awarded my skilled visa in 2012 at the age of 44, and immediately validated it with a visit to Oz.

The reason for applying for a visa in the first place was not my untold desire to go to Oz but wondering it if might provide a better future for my children than the UK.

After 4 1/2 years ticking over quite nicely in the UK in a well paid quite secure job, my (5 year) visa will expire next Summer.

In the 4 1/2 years since being granted the visa, a lot of things have happened in the UK, not least Brexit. The future, even though I am still in a well paid secure job, is far from certain in the UK and I worry more about my children's future because of Brexit.

I am now at that crossroads where I have a hard fought and valuable visa that will expire and be gone forever if I don't take up this opportunity. Or I could go to Oz, not find a job or a job not as well paid and could be very quickly financially crippling. With my children at the difficult ages of 11 and 15, schooling and exams would also be risk.

The question is, will Oz provide me the quality of life now and in the future I currently have in the UK?

I am 49, and well aware of how lucky I am to have a granted visa when it is now so difficult to come by one, and do not want to waste it! UK or Oz?

The 'just give it go' attitude and 'what have you got to lose' is not the answer I am looking for, there is too much at stake!

 

What part of the UK are you in and what part of Australia would you be looking to move to? You do not mention if you have spent any time in Oz, aside from validating your visa.

Some parts of Australia are a bit of a cultural shock and depending if you looking at Sydney or Melbourne, you may be shocked at the house prices.

 

 

Have you researched the job market here and looked at what salary ranges are on offer?

Trying to get in a new job market at 50, you may be lucky depending on what you do. Australia is in a bit of a lul at the moment since the mining boom is over, and the places with the most jobs would be Sydney or Melbourne. Lots of new immigrants also, adding to the competition.

The job market for graduates also is pretty tough and competitive at the moment. If your kids looking for a trade route, these are also hard to come by.

 

 

Are you a homeowner, would you sell up or rent it out?

 

 

Does your OH and the kids want to make the move. Your eldest would more than likely feel the move the most, in the last few years of high school and depending if they want to go to Uni, lots of studying for the grades. The education system is different over here and they would have to adjust.

 

 

Would Oz offer a better future for you and your family. It is really hard to say, everyone is different. Say you are coming from certain parts of London to Melbourne, I would say a better quality of life, much safer, people talk to you on public transport. Your children having dual citizenship is a big bonus, as it provides them the option of staying in Australia or going back to the UK to work either permanently or for a few years.

 

 

The wages are generally higher in Australia, but so is the cost of living. Other things to consider is healthcare and the additional costs of taking out private healthcare, starting a new pension fund, and the overall cost of moving and getting settled in. Also if you are close to your family and parents, how often would you want to go back on visits. Flights around xmas time, for a family of 4 would probably be in excess of $10k.