Please reassure me that PR is worth it

[Marisawright]

Thinking about it, actually I'm not at all sure PR would be worth it in your case, @BadgerLady

 

As someone else pointed out, PR isn't as permanent as you might think. It gives you the right to live in Australia forever PROVIDED you don't leave the country. If you do leave, then you have to return within a certain time or you lose your right to re-enter the country. You can apply for a further Resident Return Visa but you may not get one if you've been away too long and don't have strong connections in Australia (like owning property and having family here).

 

So, if you're planning to live abroad in the future, PR wouldn't be enough - you'd have to stick it out until you qualify for citizenship before you could leave the country and live abroad for an unlimited length of time. Of course you could change your job as often as you like during that time but you would be stuck in Australia for most of the period.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Marisawright

[NickyNook]

But the OP has already been here for nearly four years on a temp visa. She only needs to clock up a single year as PR before she qualifies for citizenship.

 

Worth waiting for, I'd have thought.

[BadgerLady]

Yeah, I do work overseas a fair bit though (as part of my Australian job), so will probably never be eligible for citizenship... unless I take and stick to something like a government job that doesn't need foreign travel.

Edited July 19, 2016 by BadgerLady

[Marisawright]

Yeah, I do work overseas a fair bit though (as part of my Australian job), so will probably never be eligible for citizenship... unless I take and stick to something like a government job that doesn't need foreign travel.

 

You don't have to have unbroken residency as far as I'm aware, so having periods overseas isn't a problem - it will just mean you'll take longer to rack up the required time.

[BadgerLady]

You don't have to have unbroken residency as far as I'm aware, so having periods overseas isn't a problem - it will just mean you'll take longer to rack up the required time.

 

Ah! Fair enough. Last time I looked, it said you couldn't have "more than 12 weeks overseas out of any 12 months" during your 5-year residency period...

Edited July 20, 2016 by BadgerLady

[Marisawright]

Ah! Fair enough. Last time I looked, it said you couldn't have "more than 12 weeks overseas out of any 12 months" during your 5-year residency period...

 

 

To satisfy the residence requirements you must:

 

• have been living in Australia on a valid Australian visa for four years immediately before applying which must include the last 12 months as a permanent resident,

• and

• not have been absent from Australia for more than one year in total, in the 4 year period, including no more than 90 days in the year immediately before applying.

 

[BadgerLady]

Should just about get away with that then :-) Citizenship application target: winter 2018!

 

(if I stick with this job)

[rammygirl]

Service Design. Best way in is to study Human-Computer Interaction, Industrial Design or Anthropology / Psychology, then to pick up an internship with a design consultancy. You've gotta love it though! What's he into?

Well he is looking at IT and programming but is also interested in Psychology and function so sounds like he should investigate. He had been doing some on line course for basic programming to see if he likes it, he does have a way with computers both software and hardware issues he can often sort himself. He reorganised my desktop and I now find it much easier to use and take advantage of all the functions and shortcuts I never bothered with before.

 

He has good A levels and started a degree in the Uk ( env. Science). But dropped out in second year and came with us to Aus as he was very depressed with zero self esteem at the time. He has been working and saving doing shifts in a cafe so can afford to do some study but still has the UK student debt to pay back so may not be able to afford a full degree course. We are PR not citizens so no HECS.

[BadgerLady]

 

Well he is looking at IT and programming but is also interested in Psychology and function so sounds like he should investigate. He had been doing some on line course for basic programming to see if he likes it, he does have a way with computers both software and hardware issues he can often sort himself. He reorganised my desktop and I now find it much easier to use and take advantage of all the functions and shortcuts I never bothered with before.

I stumbled across this article this morning on the kind of work we do, in case it appeals :-) I absolutely love it. In one year I've worked with luxury brands in Paris and coconut farmers in the Solomon Islands... and a helluva lot of government work that actually makes real, speedy impact on people's lives:http://www.themandarin.com.au/67749-podcast-mike-bracken-on-reforming-an-institution-from-within-using-internet-era-skills/

[Ellie 2]

Surely being required to go overseas for your Australian employer would be treated differently to someone just going because they felt like it. I would certainly talk to the appropriate department about it.

[BadgerLady]

Surely being required to go overseas for your Australian employer would be treated differently to someone just going because they felt like it. I would certainly talk to the appropriate department about it.

 

This is what I investigated a couple of years ago. At the time, I knew I would be disqualified because I would on occasion be out of the country for more than 12 weeks. I found that there are a lot of possible exemptions, such as military work, but that my circumstances wouldn't qualify for an exemption. Since then, wherever possible, I've turned down overseas assignments in favour of domestic ones.

 

It sounds like under the new rule (no more than 1 year out of the last 4), I'll get away with it anyway :cool:

[rammygirl]

I stumbled across this article this morning on the kind of work we do, in case it appeals :-) I absolutely love it. In one year I've worked with luxury brands in Paris and coconut farmers in the Solomon Islands... and a helluva lot of government work that actually makes real, speedy impact on people's lives:http://www.themandarin.com.au/67749-podcast-mike-bracken-on-reforming-an-institution-from-within-using-internet-era-skills/

 

Thanks will send it to him :notworthy:

[NickyNook]

..

Edited July 20, 2016 by NickyNook

[Bungo]

This is what I investigated a couple of years ago. At the time, I knew I would be disqualified because I would on occasion be out of the country for more than 12 weeks. I found that there are a lot of possible exemptions, such as military work, but that my circumstances wouldn't qualify for an exemption. Since then, wherever possible, I've turned down overseas assignments in favour of domestic ones.

 

It sounds like under the new rule (no more than 1 year out of the last 4), I'll get away with it anyway :cool:

 

I think you misread the rule. It has always been no more than twelve months out of the country, never twelve weeks well not in recent years anyway. The last rule change I can think of was about 2007. You cannot spent more than ninety days out of the country in the final year though.

 

As to what to do. Well I am not clear if you want to live in Australia permanently, but if you do, I would stick it out with the current employer rather that start the whole thing again with another employer who might be equally bad. If you do not think you want to stay permanently, I would just leave now. Life too short and all that.

[ali]

If your employer sponsors you for PR you may find that they write something into the contract which means you have to commit to them for a set period of time

[TiaCapan]

Hi BadgerLady

 

If you can get PR. then hang on in there if you can.

 

It will make a huge difference and you won't have the pressure of your employer effectively having 'control' over you and the threat of losing your job as well as your visa.

 

If you are having difficulties at work still, then please go and talk to someone, or use the EAP facility if your employer has one.

 

Im in a similar situation, in that I've moved inter state to 'further my career' and instead have just spent the most miserable few months working in a job with ridiculous demands and living in a place not knowing a soul. It's soul destroying. I'm leaving as soon as I can find another job, or before then possibly, as my health is more important.

 

If you want to chat, send me a PM.

 

All the best

[BadgerLady]

If your employer sponsors you for PR you may find that they write something into the contract which means you have to commit to them for a set period of time

 

There's a monetary tie, yes. It's on two tiers:

 

1. The level that I've been working at for the last 18 months, despite not being formally promoted, the company will cover the cost of nomination but I'll have to repay 100% of the costs if I leave within 12 months; 50% if I leave within 2 years, or 33% if I leave within 3 years.

 

2. The level I'm actually still being paid at, they'll do the nomination as long as I pay the full cost of $8,000 up front.

 

But a signing bonus would more than cover that anyway, so no probs ;-)

 

(they've promised to give me the official promotion at Christmas, but I really need to see more change than just that to stay for more than a year!)

Edited July 24, 2016 by BadgerLady

[BadgerLady]

If you can get PR. then hang on in there if you can.

 

It will make a huge difference and you won't have the pressure of your employer effectively having 'control' over you and the threat of losing your job as well as your visa.

 

If you are having difficulties at work still, then please go and talk to someone, or use the EAP facility if your employer has one.

 

Im in a similar situation, in that I've moved inter state to 'further my career' and instead have just spent the most miserable few months working in a job with ridiculous demands and living in a place not knowing a soul. It's soul destroying. I'm leaving as soon as I can find another job, or before then possibly, as my health is more important.

 

 

Thank you

 

I think I can hang on - I've processed this latest kick in the teeth and relaxed a bit now. After all, there's no need to work HARD, just stick it out as peacefully as possible. Haha, how's that for a motivated employee??

 

Unfortunately this employer has the worst HR support I've ever come across. Each department is supposed to have a rep they can go to, but the turnover is massive - I had to scroll past 5 different people who've been 'our rep' in the last year before finding the right one! When I did finally contact her she refused to reply directly, instead having a conversation with my boss.

 

The majority of the department is offshore in China and they therefore stick rigidly to policy regardless of whether or not that policy makes sense in an individual situation.

 

Even my Managing Director has made direct appeals to HR on my behalf and hit a brick wall. There's absolutely no human empathy. Rather than the 'counselling' type role that I might have expected in UK companies they're more like traffic wardens. "Sorry luv, I've already written the ticket."

Edited July 25, 2016 by BadgerLady

[flag of convenience]

Thank you

 

I think I can hang on - I've processed this latest kick in the teeth and relaxed a bit now. After all, there's no need to work HARD, just stick it out as peacefully as possible. Haha, how's that for a motivated employee??

 

Unfortunately this employer has the worst HR support I've ever come across. Each department is supposed to have a rep they can go to, but the turnover is massive - I had to scroll past 5 different people who've been 'our rep' in the last year before finding the right one! When I did finally contact her she refused to reply directly, instead having a conversation with my boss.

 

The majority of the department is offshore in China and they therefore stick rigidly to policy regardless of whether or not that policy makes sense in an individual situation.

 

Even my Managing Director has made direct appeals to HR on my behalf and hit a brick wall. There's absolutely no human empathy. Rather than the 'counselling' type role that I might have expected in UK companies they're more like traffic wardens. "Sorry luv, I've already written the ticket."

 

Empathy? Sorry a rather alien word in many work places. More a case of just don't get caught out flaunting the employment law. Cover their arse in other words. Increasingly dog eat dog out there. If in a half decent work place think carefully before leaving. Many places are a revolving door syndrome here.

[Marisawright]

Even my Managing Director has made direct appeals to HR on my behalf and hit a brick wall. There's absolutely no human empathy. Rather than the 'counselling' type role that I might have expected in UK companies they're more like traffic wardens. "Sorry luv, I've already written the ticket."

 

I'm interested to hear that HR departments fulfil a different role in the UK. You'll find that in Australia, the HR department exists to protect the interests of the employer. Programs to assist employees are generally just window-dressing to placate the workers. That has been explained to me by more than one HR director at different companies!!

[flag of convenience]

I'm interested to hear that HR departments fulfil a different role in the UK. You'll find that in Australia, the HR department exists to protect the interests of the employer. Programs to assist employees are generally just window-dressing to placate the workers. That has been explained to me by more than one HR director at different companies!!

 

Yes. Very much my experience. Not in a position to compare with UK though. My experience here is two bob each way. Shoddy treatment without a HR in place, to which used that as an example of poor CEO decision making, but pure psycho bubble nonsense when HR involved as well. Pretty much need to know all the legal angles oneself these days in order to safeguard self interest. Others more interested in covering selves than actually doing very much IMO.

[BadgerLady]

I'm interested to hear that HR departments fulfil a different role in the UK. You'll find that in Australia, the HR department exists to protect the interests of the employer. Programs to assist employees are generally just window-dressing to placate the workers. That has been explained to me by more than one HR director at different companies!!

 

Maybe I've just been lucky! My first full-time employer (14 years ago) I would book a one-to-one with an HR rep every 6 months to discuss how I'm doing and where I feel my career is going. Occasionally to request an evidence-based pay rise. In fact one of my best friends now was on that team :wink:

 

Here we're expected to 'counsel' one another. Each person is allocated someone to be their 'counsellor' and I have three people that I'm 'counsellor' to. But it's just on top of your day job - there's no time set aside to do it, you receive no training and none of us really knows what the company policies are or how to make things happen...

Edited July 25, 2016 by BadgerLady

[BadgerLady]

Hey - follow-up question:

 

How soon after getting nomination from my employer can I leave? Do I have to wait until PR has been granted, or can I bugger off the minute that nomination arrives at DIBP?

 

There's a chance now that I might be able to start the process in 7 weeks time... and my dream job has just come up in Sydney with an application deadline of 5 weeks time...

[Bungo]

Hey - follow-up question:

 

How soon after getting nomination from my employer can I leave? Do I have to wait until PR has been granted, or can I bugger off the minute that nomination arrives at DIBP?

 

There's a chance now that I might be able to start the process in 7 weeks time... and my dream job has just come up in Sydney with an application deadline of 5 weeks time...

 

Of course you cannot leave the minute the nomination arrives at DIBP! You and the company are stating that there is an expectation the role will be ongoing (them) and that you intend to stay in it. You can't leave before the visa is granted.

 

A plan of leaving the second you get the visa is also extremely unwise, if you were reported you could have your visa cancelled on account of it being secured fraudulently. If you don't expect to stay with the employer for a reasonable amount of time afterwards then don't go for employer sponsored, look into skilled migration.

[BadgerLady]

Of course you cannot leave the minute the nomination arrives at DIBP! You and the company are stating that there is an expectation the role will be ongoing (them) and that you intend to stay in it. You can't leave before the visa is granted.

 

A plan of leaving the second you get the visa is also extremely unwise, if you were reported you could have your visa cancelled on account of it being secured fraudulently. If you don't expect to stay with the employer for a reasonable amount of time afterwards then don't go for employer sponsored, look into skilled migration.

 

Already failed skilled migration... is it really fraudulent though? That seems a bit extreme! My employer is happy to let me go at any point as long as I repay their costs for nomination. In actual fact, they're not even covering my costs - I have to give them $8,000 for the privilege.

 

I'm reading the DIBP website and as far as I can tell "two years in a single occupation with a single employer" is the equivalent to "a skills assessment"... otherwise the Direct Entry and Transition are identical. I can't see anything that asks you to promise you'll continue to work with that same employer..?

Edited July 28, 2016 by BadgerLady