Which is the cheapest state/place for retirees in Australia or is it cheaper in the UK?

[Quoll]

On the subject of pension entitlement - The reason countries have to pay pensions to expatriate pensioners is because it is not normally legal to force individuals to pay pension contributions for thirty/forty years and then not give them any return on their obligatory investment. State pension contributions are not some kind of tax, but a payment towards a pension later on. Which you will be entitled to. Wherever you happen to live.

 

I asked the question, not because we expect anything from Australia (we're not even sure Australia will let us in yet!) but because I was genuinely puzzled by seemingly contradictory comments from different posters.

 

The more I read about the cost of living the more I worry about a potential move to join only child and family. Can anyone give me a ball park figure of the sort of monthly income you'd need to live in reasonable comfort? Since housing varies so widely, how much a month would you need in addition to housing costs? Any sensible replies welcomed!

 

What Nicky Nook said - the Aussie Age "pension" is actually a means tested benefit and for many years now Aussies have been required to invest in superannuation so that they are independent in their old age - it's not a right as it's not a contribution scheme.

 

As for costs in retirement - as a couple with two cars, mortgage paid off but everything else being paid on cc each month (and paid off) we were averaging around $5k pm - and we weren't extravagant (that was 3 yrs ago I can't imagine it's any cheaper now). Rent I reckon you're looking at close to $2kpm so ball park a figure of around $80k pa which is more than the comfortable $1100pw. As soon as you budget in things like overseas holidays etc it begins to mount up rapidly

[Fisher1]

Thanks Quoll and Nicky Nook for the information. Its really hard to know what to do. We worry that our (comfortable) standards of living in the UK would take a drop if we make the move - particularly given the frozen pension thing with UK pensions. Interesting to know that Oz pension is actually a state benefit - puts a different light on it altogether.

Decisions, decisions. Hard to know what to do. If we stay on the 103 list we'll probably die of old age before we get a visa, but if we cough up the contribution we'll probably starve in a garret... okay not that bad but it is worrying. Why our daughter couldn't just have moved to bl**dy Spain and saved us all a lot of trouble is beyond me ...

 

It could have been worse I suppose - she could have moved to America :wink:

[Quoll]

Thanks Quoll and Nicky Nook for the information. Its really hard to know what to do. We worry that our (comfortable) standards of living in the UK would take a drop if we make the move - particularly given the frozen pension thing with UK pensions. Interesting to know that Oz pension is actually a state benefit - puts a different light on it altogether.

Decisions, decisions. Hard to know what to do. If we stay on the 103 list we'll probably die of old age before we get a visa, but if we cough up the contribution we'll probably starve in a garret... okay not that bad but it is worrying. Why our daughter couldn't just have moved to bl**dy Spain and saved us all a lot of trouble is beyond me ...

 

It could have been worse I suppose - she could have moved to America :wink:

 

My parents did well with a 6 month holiday every year - arrive October, play golf, leave March, play golf, arrive October! They did it for 15 yrs quite successfully. They built a granny flat on our block and bought their own car which they left with us. Eventually they decided that UK offered the a better very old age and stayed by which time one grandson had moved back to UK anyway. Just a thought.

[Fisher1]

Yes, that's pretty much our 'plan B' you've just described! Its so difficult to decide what to do - I hate the thought of being too old to travel to see our daughter - but then I also hate the thought of possibly not having the money to visit friends in the UK! I do appreciate you taking the time to offer your experience - its really helpful knowing what other people have done. Thank you!

[Quoll]

Yes, that's pretty much our 'plan B' you've just described! Its so difficult to decide what to do - I hate the thought of being too old to travel to see our daughter - but then I also hate the thought of possibly not having the money to visit friends in the UK! I do appreciate you taking the time to offer your experience - its really helpful knowing what other people have done. Thank you!

But when you get too old to visit your daughter, she will be travelling to see you! We're back in UK now looking after my 90yr old parents. Works well!

[ramot]

Luckily we came when the old retirement visa was in place, which is a long term retirement visa, which we renew every 10 years, but it does mean we can't get PR.And are totally self funded. Honestly not sure if we would be prepared to 'loose' $100.00 of our money to move now. I appreciate you pay as you haven't contributed financially to Australia and you are then eligible for Medicare, which we aren't, but that buys quite a lot of health cover.

I wouldn't be surprised if more parents do the same as Qoull's parents did.

we are a bit different, as we came on our own, we had lived in Asia for a long time and didn't feel ready to go back to UK.

2 of ours have followed us, we have 1 in Brisbane and 1 in Sydney, who will hopefully get PR in Dec. so we could potentially go the parent route, but not sure it's worth it.

our daughter is in Sydney and we visit her regularly, check for cheap fares book and go. I am fairly sure it's cheaper to live on the Sunshine Coast and visit, than live in Sydney?

if you do go down the 6 months in each country, then think about house swapping, we are hoping to do this next year, to keep UK visit costs down.

 

any one live an hour from Bristol and interested?!!!

 

we manage easily on about $60.000, obviously depends where you live, 2 cars, good life style etc. have to have health cover as well. we bought our house on a mortgage, and kept property in UK, but I assume most people sell their UK property, which at our age should be worth more than when originally bought, so should have equity.

not an easy decision, but we have no regrets.

[tral12]

But when you get too old to visit your daughter, she will be travelling to see you! We're back in UK now looking after my 90yr old parents. Works well!

 

But then she will have the expense of travelling with family from Australia to UK and may be limited in amount of time she can spend in UK because of work and school commitments?

Also having people to stay when you're older?

And if you're ill she'll be worried being at other side of the world, if you have no other family in UK?

I'm depressing myself now!

[Keith and Linda]

We are in the midst of planning for future retirement, in fact we have bought our downsized house here in Brisbane (Redland city) already, it is rented out until we sell our present home, the proceeds of which will pay off our downsized home and also purchase something in the UK, so when I do retire then looking at the 6 month stint in each country.

 

Like ramot says we may then look at house swaps but the only problem with this is we, like most, would want to be in each country during the summers, but undecided at present as there are a few options which need to be fully thought out, like maybe help out by renting out to new arrivals in OZ, and ping pong poms.

 

No set plan at the moment where we will end up once we get too old for the travelling, besides that is too far down the line to know what our circumstances will be at that point.

 

And ramot we will be buying with-in 1 hour of Bristol, probably somewhere with in a 6mile radius of Chippenham, Wiltshire as we have family in Trowbridge, Calne and Chippenham.

 

I will have a Super fund here in OZ, my wife already gets a small UK pension, not sure what I will get in the UK though, so at present we believe we will be comfortable, no mortgages, the letting out option should cover rates and maybe even our flights, and remember it will only be one return airfare each per year.

[Quoll]

But then she will have the expense of travelling with family from Australia to UK and may be limited in amount of time she can spend in UK because of work and school commitments?

Also having people to stay when you're older?

And if you're ill she'll be worried being at other side of the world, if you have no other family in UK?

I'm depressing myself now!

 

Yes to all the above of course, but you make do! It also beats expecting aged parents to give up their own security, financial independence, and a lifetime of social networks etc. by moving to the other side of the world especially if they are dependent on a UK pension and aren't very well heeled. It is, indeed, a very depressing situation and one which one gives little heed to when one is young and adventurous (and probably in love!)

[flag of convenience]

I would consider UK would win, if a competition between the two for several reasons, provided certain circumstances are in place. Firstly as the UK pension is not means tested, that in itself would equal a big bonus surely for returnees.

 

With the inflated pricing of Australian housing combined with still what is remaining for now, a high dollar, again win win. Especially if mortgage free with capital in the bank. Seems a no brainer at least in the financial area. OK you won't get what passes for an Aged Pension here, but you'll get all super paid out and certain UK entitlements. Besides free NHS and other pensioner perks with travel etc.

 

You'll be in a country very easy to travel around within and easy access to abroad and at cheaper rates. I always remark in UK just how many old folk are around. Many very active doing walks with a spring in their step. Not auto reliant to the same degree many are in OZ.

 

You may well miss the sun, generally thought better for ageing bones, possible short trips to Bali and other South East Asian countries, beaches, but besides possible kids is there really much else? To my eyes older folk seem more active in UK. They certainly are in France and Germany with lots of organised events and just far more age friendly cities and space.

 

It shouldn't just be about the cost of where is cheaper, but the most appropriate in the sense of having friendly faces around and feelings of partaking.

[Marisawright]

Agree 100% but was told by a friend yesterday the the Government is going to cut off Aus pensions if you are out of the country for more than 12 months, so you would need to be self supporting.

 

There is absolutely no sign or suggestion of that, if you mean the AGE pension. However, if you have any other kind of pension (e.g. disability), you already lose it if you go overseas. I suspect that may be the confusion.

[Marisawright]

We have family both in Perth and also in Queensland so do need to factor in travel costs. Also if we went back to the UK would want to visit often.

 

That changes things. The cost of flying to and fro every year would wipe out any savings you might make from cheaper housing or other costs in the UK, so I think you'd be mad to consider moving. The only reason we think it may work for us, is that we have NO family left in Australia so once moved, we wouldn't come back for holidays at all.

[ramot]

I would consider UK would win, if a competition between the two for several reasons, provided certain circumstances are in place. Firstly as the UK pension is not means tested, that in itself would equal a big bonus surely for returnees.

 

With the inflated pricing of Australian housing combined with still what is remaining for now, a high dollar, again win win. Especially if mortgage free with capital in the bank. Seems a no brainer at least in the financial area. OK you won't get what passes for an Aged Pension here, but you'll get all super paid out and certain UK entitlements. Besides free NHS and other pensioner perks with travel etc.

 

You'll be in a country very easy to travel around within and easy access to abroad and at cheaper rates. I always remark in UK just how many old folk are around. Many very active doing walks with a spring in their step. Not auto reliant to the same degree many are in OZ.

 

You may well miss the sun, generally thought better for ageing bones, possible short trips to Bali and other South East Asian countries, beaches, but besides possible kids is there really much else? To my eyes older folk seem more active in UK. They certainly are in France and Germany with lots of organised events and just far more age friendly cities and space.

 

It shouldn't just be about the cost of where is cheaper, but the most appropriate in the sense of having friendly faces around and feelings of partaking.

 

 

Should live on the Sunshine Coast if you want to see active retirees! We never stop, water aerobics, tai chi, walking groups, regular sea swimmers, full exercise classes.

honestly there is good and bad in both countries, so you end up where it suits you best.

Our income comes from UK, so I'm not up to speed with people retiring back to UK from Australia, but there was quite a long thread by a poster saying that there are negative tax implications? So your income is reduced?

Sure someone who knows will comment on that.

yes you have the National Health in UK but have you seen the waiting times for treatment there, and yes it is just as bad in the public system here. Also have you read the reports of older patients being removed from Dr.s lists, it's a disgrace.

so yet again good and bad in both countries and it depends where you live.

my friend has just come back from spending 3 months in UK with her mother, age 78, She lives in a village with a population of about 2000, which has lost it's last shop, no Dr. can't drive any more, and has to either walk 2 miles to the nearest shop, or go by infrequent bus to do her shopping, is feeling very isolated.

Our retired friends in UK enjoy their lives as much as we do, we enjoy sharing their lives when we are back there, and the many friends who have visited us here feel the same.

I genuinely don't know if it's cheaper or better in UK? When retired, I only know I don't want to live there, even though our only 2 grandchildren are there. a couple of months a year is enough for me, have travelled extensively to Europe in my time, lived in Germany for 4 years, and spent many months in France, and apart from occasionally visiting my brother in Cyprus, don't feel the need to revisit anywhere.

So each to their own, just be happy wherever you end up retired.

[Bridgeman]

We are in the midst of planning for future retirement, in fact we have bought our downsized house here in Brisbane (Redland city) already, it is rented out until we sell our present home, the proceeds of which will pay off our downsized home and also purchase something in the UK, so when I do retire then looking at the 6 month stint in each country.

 

Like ramot says we may then look at house swaps but the only problem with this is we, like most, would want to be in each country during the summers, but undecided at present as there are a few options which need to be fully thought out, like maybe help out by renting out to new arrivals in OZ, and ping pong poms.

 

No set plan at the moment where we will end up once we get too old for the travelling, besides that is too far down the line to know what our circumstances will be at that point.

 

And ramot we will be buying with-in 1 hour of Bristol, probably somewhere with in a 6mile radius of Chippenham, Wiltshire as we have family in Trowbridge, Calne and Chippenham.

 

I will have a Super fund here in OZ, my wife already gets a small UK pension, not sure what I will get in the UK though, so at present we believe we will be comfortable, no mortgages, the letting out option should cover rates and maybe even our flights, and remember it will only be one return airfare each per year.

 

We actually thought about this for a while, doing the 6 month thing, as we quite miss the UK. However, the practicalities would take some working out. You would need somewhere to stay in both places as we have no immediate family in the UK no. Also there is the problem of what to do about cars? I believe house and car insurance are difficult if you are not a resident.

 

Also I imagine it would be difficult to make a proper life for yourself if you were only present for six months in each place, things like friends and joining clubs etc. We also thought about house swaps, but as you say, who would want to go to the UK for the winter as we would want to spend the summers in both places? I know people have done this, but I think it would take considerable resources, not to mention the cost of flights every year. Would be interested to know if you come up with any good solutions.

[Petals]

Interesting, however if you are going to receive a part pension in Aus from the government you have to advise Centrelink when you leave the country and how long for and then they reduce the pension bey removing any allowances that may be with it. They are very strict about it. Fortunately I do not have one so I can do as I like. Big brother is alive and well and watching like a hawk here in Aus.

[flag of convenience]

Should live on the Sunshine Coast if you want to see active retirees! We never stop, water aerobics, tai chi, walking groups, regular sea swimmers, full exercise classes.

honestly there is good and bad in both countries, so you end up where it suits you best.

Our income comes from UK, so I'm not up to speed with people retiring back to UK from Australia, but there was quite a long thread by a poster saying that there are negative tax implications? So your income is reduced?

Sure someone who knows will comment on that.

yes you have the National Health in UK but have you seen the waiting times for treatment there, and yes it is just as bad in the public system here. Also have you read the reports of older patients being removed from Dr.s lists, it's a disgrace.

so yet again good and bad in both countries and it depends where you live.

my friend has just come back from spending 3 months in UK with her mother, age 78, She lives in a village with a population of about 2000, which has lost it's last shop, no Dr. can't drive any more, and has to either walk 2 miles to the nearest shop, or go by infrequent bus to do her shopping, is feeling very isolated.

Our retired friends in UK enjoy their lives as much as we do, we enjoy sharing their lives when we are back there, and the many friends who have visited us here feel the same.

I genuinely don't know if it's cheaper or better in UK? When retired, I only know I don't want to live there, even though our only 2 grandchildren are there. a couple of months a year is enough for me, have travelled extensively to Europe in my time, lived in Germany for 4 years, and spent many months in France, and apart from occasionally visiting my brother in Cyprus, don't feel the need to revisit anywhere.

So each to their own, just be happy wherever you end up retired.

 

We are all different with needs to match. Of course good and bad in each country. One thing of concern to me would be the likelihood of being unable to travel, with the age, on health grounds considering the great distance involved.

 

There are certainly tax implications living abroad and having assets in Australia, if living over 26 weeks in a year outside. As for waiting lists, I have been waiting two and a half years for a surgical procedure. Of course if it was essential or causing greater discomfort I would go private, as have the means, but hardly the point.

 

I would not live in an isolated village in either country with the age. Only compound complications in such an event. I think being aged in both countries can be dire depending on one's personal situation. Some of the suburban supermarkets here in Perth are hardly full of sprightly aged folk from my observations. Of course many exceptions but I suspect loneliness to be an under rated issue.

 

I would certainly want to keep travel options open with the age. Having lived in France and these days more prone to spend time in Germany having interests there, the need to travel is non negotiable. UK hardly factors at all. In fact off back over there next month.

[flag of convenience]

Interesting, however if you are going to receive a part pension in Aus from the government you have to advise Centrelink when you leave the country and how long for and then they reduce the pension bey removing any allowances that may be with it. They are very strict about it. Fortunately I do not have one so I can do as I like. Big brother is alive and well and watching like a hawk here in Aus.

 

Very much the case. How unfair we don't have a movable pension like UK which is paid world wide although frozen at departure levels in some countries.

[flag of convenience]

That changes things. The cost of flying to and fro every year would wipe out any savings you might make from cheaper housing or other costs in the UK, so I think you'd be mad to consider moving. The only reason we think it may work for us, is that we have NO family left in Australia so once moved, we wouldn't come back for holidays at all.

 

We as well. Would sell up and likely never return. Just getting the right time, which is in all likelihood a mistake. Should just cut losses or celebrate gains, a bit of both in certain cases and move on with it. In my case country issue as well.

[Quoll]

Very much the case. How unfair we don't have a movable pension like UK which is paid world wide although frozen at departure levels in some countries.

Superannuation is paid world wide so your pension will be ok.

[starlight7]

When you retire in Australia there are so many things to do you will wonder how you ever had time to work. They are geared for over 55s here- far more than any other age group. Just off the top of my head you have Probus clubs, U3A, Red Hats for ladies, View clubs, EPRA clubs, many sporting clubs including golf, local seniors groups- just look in your local paper. There are camping and caravaning groups, art groups, film groups, music groups, craft groups within Probus too. We go to a Dine Out group where about 30 of us try different restaurants once a month, a walking group, linedancing-could go on.

[ramot]

When you retire in Australia there are so many things to do you will wonder how you ever had time to work. They are geared for over 55s here- far more than any other age group. Just off the top of my head you have Probus clubs, U3A, Red Hats for ladies, View clubs, EPRA clubs, many sporting clubs including golf, local seniors groups- just look in your local paper. There are camping and caravaning groups, art groups, film groups, music groups, craft groups within Probus too. We go to a Dine Out group where about 30 of us try different restaurants once a month, a walking group, linedancing-could go on.

 

 

good to hear I'm not alone having a great retirement here. We like you are spoilt for choice here. I am also one of the sad ones who plays bridge several times a week, club bridge hopefully good for my brain, but also have such a good laugh when playing socially with a great mix of friends, Australians and others from South Africa, Zimbabwe, Denmark, US and more. Only stay in from choice certainly not from a lack of options.

[flag of convenience]

Superannuation is paid world wide so your pension will be ok.

 

Super is but Aged Pension more problematic. Especially as worked outside of Australia for far longer than within.

[Quoll]

Super is but Aged Pension more problematic. Especially as worked outside of Australia for far longer than within.

Yes but it is a benefits payment not a national Age Pension scheme and the assumption should be that it's a safety net not an entitlement. If it were a contributory scheme then obviously that would be different.

[Marisawright]

Very much the case. How unfair we don't have a movable pension like UK which is paid world wide although frozen at departure levels in some countries.

 

 

Well, it is moveable if you wait until after you're 65. If you move,you only lose allowances not the pension itself.

 

Also, you can move almost anywhere in Europe and collect the full Aussie pension no trouble at all. It just seems mad that the UK, of all places, doesn't have that kind of agreement in place.

[Marisawright]

Superannuation is paid world wide so your pension will be ok.

 

Yes, but your super is tax free in Australia but will be taxed as income in the UK.