excitedbutterrified Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Hi, I have been offered a job in Melbourne which doesn't start for about 10 months. Given it is so far in the future, the employer has offered to fund and sponsor either 186 permanent visa or 457 4 year visa. We will be a family of 2 working adults, and 2 pre school children who will be in full time day care. We intend to stay on a trial basis for 1 or 2 years (i.e leave work on extended unpaid leave, not sell the house in England in case we hate it and want to come back) staying on if everything is rosy. Are there any significant benefits / downsides to either visa? I get the feeling the permanent visa may come with some advantages once in oz, but will be a pain in the arse to go through the longer process. cheers, Edited July 2, 2014 by excitedbutterrified Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABL275 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 There used to be financial advantages to being on a 457 visa if you maintained a house elsewhere as you received significant tax breaks but those all disappeared about 2 years ago so now you'd be taxed like a permanent resident. The biggest difference is security; if you lose your job on a 457 (it happened to me after 18 months) you would have 28 days to find a new job and an employer that was willing to take on your sponsorship - or leave the country effectively (I gather the 28 day period has now been extended to 6 months). Australia has a very protectionist culture (the working class worker is king and it's Australian jobs for Australian workers first) and a backlash against 457 visa holders can brew up very quickly whenever a politician wants to be seen to be a man of the people. Just before the last election there was a lot of scaremongering about 457s being used by nasty big business to import thousands of (often Indian IT) workers to undercut hard working Australians - it all felt very xenophobic for a while and I suspect it call all blow up just as quickly again before the next election. The Australian government and Australian companies can treat those on 457s as disposable commodities so I did eventually go for the permanent resident visa. You also get better access to Medicare (their NHS) although you may end up paying a little more for it than on a 457 but personally I value the additional peace of mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Bite their hand off for the permanent visa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie129 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) if you lose your job on a 457 (it happened to me after 18 months) you would have 28 days to find a new job and an employer that was willing to take on your sponsorship - or leave the country effectively (I gather the 28 day period has now been extended to 6 months). It's 90 days its been extended to, not 6 months. I would definitely go for the permanent residency. Yes it may be more paper work and a longer process but for the security that comes with it... it's worth it. Edited June 24, 2014 by stevie129 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excitedbutterrified Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 My worry about the permanent visa is : what happens if we decide to come back to the Uk after 1 year (the job my wife is applying for is a fixed term 1 year post, so its quite likely) would we then invalidate the visa by leaving early, and ruin any future chance of moving to oz. Our original plans were to move out several years down the line when the kids are of school age (or even later) and probably to WA rather than Melbourne where the new job is as we have a lot of friends in WA. I wouldn't want to scupper any future move. Melbourne was never in the plan, but I've had an excellent job offer. What generally does happen if you leave before the 2 year minimum term of the permanent residency visa? My understanding is that to maintain a permanent right to residency, you cant be leaving the country for long periods i.e. you are obliged to be "resident" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABL275 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Ta! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie129 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) My worry about the permanent visa is : what happens if we decide to come back to the Uk after 1 year (the job my wife is applying for is a fixed term 1 year post, so its quite likely) would we then invalidate the visa by leaving early, and ruin any future chance of moving to oz. Our original plans were to move out several years down the line when the kids are of school age (or even later) and probably to WA rather than Melbourne where the new job is as we have a lot of friends in WA. I wouldn't want to scupper any future move. Melbourne was never in the plan, but I've had an excellent job offer. What generally does happen if you leave before the 2 year minimum term of the permanent residency visa? My understanding is that to maintain a permanent right to residency, you cant be leaving the country for long periods i.e. you are obliged to be "resident" The permanent visa is a 5 year visa which allows you to live indefinitely in Australia. It is only the traveling to Australia part of the visa after five years becomes invalid. To be able to come and go to Australia once the five years lapse you either apply for a resident return visa (RRV) or be in the position to apply for citizenship. To be eligible for a five year RRV, you need to be legally living in aus for at least 2 out of the 5 years. So in answer to your question you will not invalidate your visa. You can come and go for the length of your visa. But to get a five year RRV you'll need to have lived at least 2 years out of the 5 in aus. Edited June 24, 2014 by stevie129 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumster Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 We rushed to get over here so opted for 457 we soon realised that its harder ( not impossible with a large deposit) to get a mortgage & generally feel vulnerable. As a result we've approached our employer who's agreed to sponsor our pr now. Alas weve to dish out more cash for this & stress again over the same things we did last time. So definitely go for pr if only to save the money in the long run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Also consider the working adult who is not being sponsored needs to find a job and that is easier if you are a permanent resident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tickled Pink Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) For the 186 visa a contract needs to be a minimum of two years to meet the criteria - are you saying the contract being offered is just one? Sorry - I think I've mis read the post. your offer is more than a year I think... ignore me! (go for 186 pr for sure, especially with kids). Edited June 24, 2014 by Tickled Pink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieMay24 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I'd absolutely choose the PR over the 457 visa. It gives you much more flexibility and stability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hoffer Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 if it was me and I was unsure id go 457 with a view to transferring to PR if you like it. 457's get a lot of bad press but it hasn't hindered myself or anyone i know on one. The advantage to a 457 while your unsure is that if you do go back to the UK you can get access to your super funds minus the tax. This can work out to be quite a lot of money. My situation may be different as my employer paid all of my 457 visa costs and will pay for my PR costs to and im not sure if i would be doing the transfer over from 457 to PR if i had to pay myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Hi, I have been offered a job in Melbourne which doesn't start for about 10 months. Given it is so far in the future, the employer has offered to fund and sponsor either 186 permanent visa or 457 4 year visa. We will be a family of 2 working adults, and 2 pre school children who will be in full time day care. We intend to stay on a trial basis for 1 or 2 years (i.e leave work on extended unpaid leave, not sell the house in England in case we hate it and want to come back) possibly staying on if everything is rosy - new employer does not know this - thinks its a dead cert permanent move. Are there any significant benefits / downsides to either visa? I get the feeling the permanent visa may come with some advantages once in oz, but will be a pain in the arse to go through the longer process. cheers, I believe that if you're on a 457, you don't get access to a lot of benefits which would be available to a permanent resident. I'm not sure of the distinctions but I'm sure someone here will be able to provide the details. With kids, that could make a difference to your budget. PR is not easy to get so I wouldn't be passing up a chance to get it. The rules may change by the time you're ready to make a permanent move and you'll be kicking yourself that you let the chance go. Even if you don't like it, I'd have thought you could commit to a two year period so you avoid any penalties. It's quite possible your wife's "fixed term" 1 year contract is just to get around hiring restrictions at the company, and she'll get a renewal at the end - that's not uncommon here. Plus if she's a PR and has already got a year under her belt in Australia, she'll find it fairly easy to get another one-year contract if needs be. Edited June 25, 2014 by Marisawright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest THEGOLDMANS Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I would definitely get the company to get you the PR Visa, We are on a 457 and you don't get any beefits with children or taxes. If PR then you would at least get a rebate on the kids nursery and family tax benefits. It is very expensive without these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozmaniac Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 As a previous poster wrote "bite their hand off for the permanent visa". There are so many downsides to the 457 for someone with a family that it's an absolute no brainer. Some of the downsides... 1. 457s are very insecure. If the business suffers a downturn or if things just don't work out in some other way and you lose or leave your job, you have only 90 days in which to find a new eligible sponsor or you all need to leave the country. 2. On a 457, you are not eligible for Family Tax Benefits or Childcare Benefit (CCB) or Childcare Rebate (CCR). Childcare is very expensive with (I'm sure) costs being grossly inflated simply because most people don't have to pay the fees without government benefits. Expect to pay at least $80/day per child. 3. If your partner wants to work (difficult anyway without assistance with childcare expenses), it's much harder to find a decent job on a temporary visa. It sounds like she's OK for the first year but after that??? 4. Mortgages and other loans are harder to get on a temporary visa. Can't see any downsides to the 186. If you stay in Australia for 2 years, you'll be able to get a 5 year Resident Return visa and even if you stay for a shorter time, you would have a good chance of getting a shorter RRV to get you back to Australia as PRs as long as you don't leave it for too long (5+ years) to apply. In any case, even if you had to apply again, it wouldn't jeopardise any future application - we don't punish former PRs by refusing them another chance. Grab the offer of the 186 with both hands! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excitedbutterrified Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Thanks for all the responses. The job my wife is going for is definitely 1 year fixed, as it is a medical fellowship position with no prospect of being extended. After that she would have to find a consultant post, or we would come back to the uk. My offer is for a permanent role. Sounds like the permanent visa is the one to go for. What's the deal with childcare rebates / salary packaging childcare? Ive looked at a few nurserys close to where we both will work ( Clayton, Melbourne) and they seem to be around the $100 per child per day. $50000 per year for both kids - half what my salary will be! Edited June 25, 2014 by excitedbutterrified Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozmaniac Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Without knowing your family income, it's not possible for us to answer with what you could expect to get in CCB and CCR so here are links to the two relevant sections of the Family Services website for you to work it out. Suffice to say though that for most families, the benefits are well worth having. http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/centrelink/child-care-benefit CCB http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/centrelink/child-care-rebate CCR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 . What's the deal with childcare rebates / salary packaging childcare? Ive looked at a few nurserys close to where we both will work ( Clayton, Melbourne) and they seem to be around the $100 per child per day. $50000 per year for both kids - half what my salary will be! That's why you need PR. With a 457 you'll get no rebates at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excitedbutterrified Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Family income will be in the region of $220k Ill be working for a Government organisation and she will be working at a public hospital. Edited June 25, 2014 by excitedbutterrified Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jac2011 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Also bear in mind that many states are now charging for public school fee's around $5000 per annum for tempory visa holders. WA have recently introduced this with little warning to those on the visas, although on that salary and with high childcare fee's - the school fee's wont seem too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Grey Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Are you and your wife eligible for either of these options? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excitedbutterrified Posted September 8, 2014 Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 Ah Damn, Just found out from my new company that they wont now fully fund any permanent visa. It turns out the person who had offered it didnt have any real authority, and when they asked for permission from management to proceed were knocked back. It seems they are worried that if they sponsored me through the process, I wouldnt be obliged to work for them, and they prefer to bring people in on the 457 and sponsor them for PR later. Apparently they have previously put people through the PR only for them to start working elsewhere in Oz instead. They have told us they will fund 50% of a PR, but we dont have the cash to fund the rest, so its a 457 for us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammygirl Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Most people pay foe their own pr visas even when sponsored. I would think seriously about finding the cash especially if they are paying half. In the grand scheme it is not a fortune. Seriously if you can't find the cash for a visa how Are you going to fund the move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excitedbutterrified Posted September 8, 2014 Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 Honestly, Its going to be a struggle as it is without paying for a visa. My wife (who earns a lot more than me) is on maternity leave until just before we leave so our income is lower than normal and meagre savings are going to dwindle. The only things really going for us is that flights, furniture removals from uk to oz will definitely be paid for by the new company, and we will be housed and have a car provided for 4 weeks, all as part of the relocation package. So we hope to have the vast majority of the stuff we are going to need to set up home, buying a car may be our biggest cost, but we are selling both our cars in the uk, and will just have 1 in oz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy1 Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 (edited) In that case you really need to consider child care costs as you will not receive any help/rebate on a 457. Unless you are in the city, just having one car can be a challenge. However, if you are just coming for an adventure for a year, take it at that and have fun! Edited September 8, 2014 by Sammy1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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