Is it wise to move to Melbourne?

[4forAdventure]

I have just returned to London after 18 months in Melbourne, and am also an accountant.

 

As regards work it was very difficult to come by. In all it took me six months to find a permanent job (I did have two months of temping in that time though). There is the issue of most employers preferring Australian qualifications, CPA in my case. However, the main problem is being new to the country and employers understandably being cautious of taking one someone new to the country. My boss was English so valued my qualifications but did say that although hypocritical as an immigrant himself he never even interviews anyone who hasn't been in the country for two years for permanent job (I started as a temp). Also Melbourne never felt like an 'international city and didn't have the rapidly moving job market of London, where not being there for two years would not be a consideration for employers. I always wondered whether Sydney would be different but have no experience to comment. I'm sure that I was not an exception and everyone gets that lucky break at some point. One big positive is that work is a lot easier compared to the uk where you are expected to be proactive and show initiative, hence I was offered a FT job after only a week as temp.

 

As regards the city, I really wanted somewhere where my life outside of work would be spent in shorts, singlet and flip-flops. I probably should have done better research as only Jan-Mar is warm enough for that sort of attire. However after a year or so I got used to it and appreciated that while not hot, it is far milder than home, never gets below freezing and days will get up to 15-20C even in winter. It's a great city that really grew on me and I would not rule out the possibility of going back one day but if weather is a big factor for you then I certainly wouldn't bother.

 

I only had myself to worry about but would urge caution if moving with a family if there is nothing really forcing you leave home. As said I would consider going back now I know what to expect and am not under the impression that life is like home and away.

 

Can I ask what made you decide to return to London after what seems like going through the entire visa process and spending the time to get settled etc?

 

Thanks to to everyone's comments as well. There are so many differing views it's hard to know what to make of it all. We are coming to Australia regardless and we are very excited. We are always up for a challenge and have lived overseas before so the whole emigrating thing doesn't bother us and our children are young enough for it not to be a problem just yet. We aren't personally hoping the grass is greener just different as such and looking forward to all the differences and challenges we will explore and overcome. Life is an adventure and we intend to make the most of it and living in Australia is part of the grand plan. We will be coming with a chunk of savings so in some locations we could afford to put down big deposit on home/buy outright potentially so would help take the pressure off the salary but clearly we don't want to invest in an area before we are settled and found a job etc. Yes hubby works in financial services sector and Sydney would be the ideal from a job perspective but we are trying to explore more "liveable" options without a horrendous rent/mortgage or crazy commute. Melbourne seemed to tick a lot of the boxes although slightly concerned how seasonal it is in reality and a change from UK weather would be a bonus. We are hoping to have a more outdoors lifestyle, maintain a good work/home life balance. We do love the coast and water but also mountains etc. Never tried skiing so that sounds fun. The culture sounds good but we aren't die hard concert/theatre fans although maybe that's due to having children at the mo! We did used to live in Brighton and Hove but aren't overly arty people. Just enjoy a good mix and variety of everything really, particularly the outdoors. In the backs of our minds we are also considering Brisbane but I guess it's a little harder again re the job market and chewing over peoples comments of the available variety of activities/culture but the coastal aspect would be great. Lots to think about in not a lot of time

[Marisawright]

There are so many differing views it's hard to know what to make of it all. Melbourne seemed to tick a lot of the boxes although slightly concerned how seasonal it is in reality and a change from UK weather would be a bonus. We are hoping to have a more outdoors lifestyle, maintain a good work/home life balance. We do love the coast and water but also mountains etc. ...Just enjoy a good mix and variety of everything really, particularly the outdoors. In the backs of our minds we are also considering Brisbane

 

Yes it is hard because, let's face it, everyone is different. If someone asked "where's the best place to live in England", you wouldn't expect a unanimous answer either!

 

People do complain about the Melbourne weather, but it's in comparison with the rest of Australia. Yes it is variable but it's still better than UK weather, IMO. And if you're an outdoorsy family, then there's one thing which makes it more desirable than much of the rest of Australia - the UV index.

 

If you look at a UV map of Australia, you'll see that even now in the middle of winter, the UV index in Queensland is still "moderate" meaning sunscreen needs to be worn (whereas Melbourne drops to 2, which requires minimal protection even for sensitive skins). In summer, everything north of Sydney shoots up to "extreme" (11 to 13) - at that level, the official WHO advice is to stay indoors!

 

So, if you're likely to be spending a lot of time outdoors, your children will be safer south of Sydney than north of the border.

 

Here are the UV index maps for Brisbane vs Melbourne:

 

http://www.arpansa.gov.au/uvindex/models/briuvmodel.htm

http://www.arpansa.gov.au/uvindex/models/meluvmodel.htm

 

At first glance they may not look much different, but look closer and you'll see Brisbane doesn't just go higher, it stays higher for longer.

 

For comparison, the UV index in the UK does not usually go above 8, even in the summer (which just goes to show that Melbourne's weather isn't the same as SE England!).

 

Here's a city by city comparison of UV index, where you can see how Sydney, Darwin and Melbourne compare to European cities through the year (no idea why there are no UK cities on there). Remember the seasons are opposite in Oz when doing the comparison! You'll see that even Greece and Spain don't get anywhere near as high as Darwin (Brisbane would be about halfway between Sydney and Darwin).

 

http://www.who.int/uv/intersunprogramme/activities/uv_index/en/index3.html

 

You may think this is all scaremongering,but Australia has the highest rate of skin cancer in the world (three times the rate in the UK and even higher for melanoma), and Australians take it very seriously. When you get here, you'll find your children have to wear long sleeves and legionnaire's hats to school, that kids wear rash suits for swimming and children in pushchairs are hidden behind screens.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Marisawright

[Paul1Perth]

Nothing to add to this really, except that I agree 100% and I think it is a very accurate, fair assessment. It should be a sticky post and compulsory reading for all prospective immigrants!

 

I can see the attraction of being a drive to snowfields in winter. I've never been skiing and would love to go. Be a bit of a drive from Perth though. Looks like a fantastic ski season on the way judging by the pictures on the news last night.

[Paul1Perth]

Can I ask what made you decide to return to London after what seems like going through the entire visa process and spending the time to get settled etc?

 

Thanks to to everyone's comments as well. There are so many differing views it's hard to know what to make of it all. We are coming to Australia regardless and we are very excited. We are always up for a challenge and have lived overseas before so the whole emigrating thing doesn't bother us and our children are young enough for it not to be a problem just yet. We aren't personally hoping the grass is greener just different as such and looking forward to all the differences and challenges we will explore and overcome. Life is an adventure and we intend to make the most of it and living in Australia is part of the grand plan. We will be coming with a chunk of savings so in some locations we could afford to put down big deposit on home/buy outright potentially so would help take the pressure off the salary but clearly we don't want to invest in an area before we are settled and found a job etc. Yes hubby works in financial services sector and Sydney would be the ideal from a job perspective but we are trying to explore more "liveable" options without a horrendous rent/mortgage or crazy commute. Melbourne seemed to tick a lot of the boxes although slightly concerned how seasonal it is in reality and a change from UK weather would be a bonus. We are hoping to have a more outdoors lifestyle, maintain a good work/home life balance. We do love the coast and water but also mountains etc. Never tried skiing so that sounds fun. The culture sounds good but we aren't die hard concert/theatre fans although maybe that's due to having children at the mo! We did used to live in Brighton and Hove but aren't overly arty people. Just enjoy a good mix and variety of everything really, particularly the outdoors. In the backs of our minds we are also considering Brisbane but I guess it's a little harder again re the job market and chewing over peoples comments of the available variety of activities/culture but the coastal aspect would be great. Lots to think about in not a lot of time

 

Judging by his comments on expecting a lifestyle where he would be wearing shorts, singlet and flip flops he just went to the wrong place. There are heaps of places in Aus that he could have picked where he would have got that, Melbourne isn't one of them.

[Paul1Perth]

Yes it is hard because, let's face it, everyone is different. If someone asked "where's the best place to live in England", you wouldn't expect a unanimous answer either!

 

People do complain about the Melbourne weather, but it's in comparison with the rest of Australia. Yes it is variable but it's still better than UK weather, IMO. And if you're an outdoorsy family, then there's one thing which makes it more desirable than much of the rest of Australia - the UV index.

 

If you look at a UV map of Australia, you'll see that even now in the middle of winter, the UV index in Queensland is still "moderate" meaning sunscreen needs to be worn (whereas Melbourne drops to 2, which requires minimal protection even for sensitive skins). In summer, everything north of Sydney shoots up to "extreme" (11 to 13) - at that level, the official WHO advice is to stay indoors!

 

So, if you're likely to be spending a lot of time outdoors, your children will be safer south of Sydney than north of the border.

 

Here are the UV index maps for Brisbane vs Melbourne:

 

http://www.arpansa.gov.au/uvindex/models/briuvmodel.htm

http://www.arpansa.gov.au/uvindex/models/meluvmodel.htm

 

At first glance they may not look much different, but look closer and you'll see Brisbane doesn't just go higher, it stays higher for longer.

 

For comparison, the UV index in the UK does not usually go above 8, even in the summer (which just goes to show that Melbourne's weather isn't the same as SE England!).

 

Here's a city by city comparison of UV index, where you can see how Sydney, Darwin and Melbourne compare to European cities through the year (no idea why there are no UK cities on there). Remember the seasons are opposite in Oz when doing the comparison! You'll see that even Greece and Spain don't get anywhere near as high as Darwin (Brisbane would be about halfway between Sydney and Darwin).

 

http://www.who.int/uv/intersunprogramme/activities/uv_index/en/index3.html

 

You may think this is all scaremongering,but Australia has the highest rate of skin cancer in the world (three times the rate in the UK and even higher for melanoma), and Australians take it very seriously. When you get here, you'll find your children have to wear long sleeves and legionnaire's hats to school, that kids wear rash suits for swimming and children in pushchairs are hidden behind screens.

 

The other side of the coin is that you now it's going to be sunny and you wear sunscreen. I've hardly ever been sunburnt here as I wear sunscreen if I'm at the beach for anything over an hour in the summer, which is a lot. I'm there every day but go for a surf ski paddle before work, so 5:30am ish. No point in wearing sunscreen then, still beautiful mornings but no fear of getting the affects of the sun till later. The whole family spend heaps of time at the beach. We wear swimwear 'cos we are in and out of the sea the whole time, we don't cover up any more than your average UK person going to Spain, Portugal, Greece or the South Coast on holiday.

 

I used to get burned on a regular basis in those places when I was young and foolish and thought sunscreen wasn't necessary, as we were only going to be there for a couple of weeks and we wanted to make the most of it.

 

Australia has the highest rate of skin cancer in the World because people take the warnings seriously, get checked at the doctors often, free skin screening vans doing the rounds and people who work outside a lot have the smallest blemishes removed from their face, arms, head on a yearly basis. Not because they are cancerous but as a precaution. All this feeds into the statistics and while a lot of the treatment may not be for cancer it makes the figures look a lot worse than they are.

 

There are a lot of countries with the same UV index as Aus and they don't have such a pro-active message and treatment regime that they do here. Statistically they appear to have a lot less cases.

[buzzy--bee]

Judging by his comments on expecting a lifestyle where he would be wearing shorts, singlet and flip flops he just went to the wrong place. There are heaps of places in Aus that he could have picked where he would have got that, Melbourne isn't one of them.

 

:confused: I wear shorts in Melbourne most of the year - at least 9 months solid.... My kids seem to wear them 12 months!

 

BB

[4forAdventure]

Very valid points about the sunscreen/UV issue thanks so for that! We have lived near to the equator before so not un used to applying creams, hats and such like but not having to worry about it as much at certain times i imagine would be quite a blessing. The more the hear the more Melbourne sounds right for us, it will be exciting to explore and find out

[Marisawright]

The other side of the coin is that you now it's going to be sunny and you wear sunscreen. I've hardly ever been sunburnt here as I wear sunscreen if I'm at the beach for anything over an hour in the summer, which is a lot... The whole family spend heaps of time at the beach. We wear swimwear 'cos we are in and out of the sea the whole time, we don't cover up any more than your average UK person going to Spain, Portugal, Greece or the South Coast on holiday.

 

That's your choice - but just because you're not getting sunburnt doesn't mean you won't get skin cancer. Getting sunburnt increases the risk but just the exposure at high or extreme levels is enough. And although the heat and sun feel very similar to Spain, Portugal or Greece, the UV index rarely goes above 10 there - whereas in Australia it can get up to 13. As for the South Coast, nowhere in the UK gets above 8 as a rule.

 

Australia has the highest rate of skin cancer in the World because people take the warnings seriously, get checked at the doctors often...

 

It's true Australian statistics for relatively harmless skin cancers are probably higher because of improved detection. However I don't think you can argue with stats for skin cancer deaths - people die whether they got checked or not. In fact, Australians are more likely to survive skin cancer because of better detection, yet we're still in the top 5 countries for skin cancer deaths.

 

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/skin-cancers/by-country/

Edited June 25, 2014 by Marisawright

[Paul1Perth]

That's your choice - but just because you're not getting sunburnt doesn't mean you won't get skin cancer. Getting sunburnt increases the risk but just the exposure at high or extreme levels is enough. And although the heat and sun feel very similar to Spain, Portugal or Greece, the UV index rarely goes above 10 there - whereas in Australia it can get up to 13. As for the South Coast, nowhere in the UK gets above 8 as a rule.

 

 

 

It's true Australian statistics for relatively harmless skin cancers are probably higher because of improved detection. However I don't think you can argue with stats for skin cancer deaths - people die whether they got checked or not. In fact, Australians are more likely to survive skin cancer because of better detection, yet we're still in the top 5 countries for skin cancer deaths.

 

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/skin-cancers/by-country/

 

I can understand all your arguments but we emigrated because we wanted to be on the beach more, in nice weather and we are prepared to take the risk with the skin cancer. Just a personal choice and I can also understand people who aren't bothered about the beach covering up. I had a look at the page you posted and it's suspicious to say the least. Again I think the figures come down to how well the government and agencies report on deaths attributed to skin cancer, otherwise how would New Guinea be right at the top with a death rate of 9.1 and Indonesia, which is part of the same Island as well as all the other Islands in the same region only be reporting a death rate of 0.8?

 

The African continent is the same with South Africa having a reported death rate of 4.1 and surrounding countries 0.8, 1.4 etc. Just doesn't make sense. Who's going to go out to remote locations and see who has and who hasn't died of skin cancer in those countries?

 

I think the data needs to be taken with a pinch of salt as the data is only as good as the countries ability and willingness to collect information.

[hookturn]

Hello, how much should a family with 2 children expect as income to be able to live comfortably in melbourne and even have some savings?

[Rob64]

Minimum of $150,000

[hookturn]

Minimum of $150,000

 

That sounds a lot rob64. Can you share your calculations with us? Like rental, food, savings etc

[Rob64]

I paid $700 a week for rent, food bills $200 a week, petrol, car insurance, possible school fees. Oz is a very expensive place to live

[MARYROSE02]

As a Sydneysider, i am quite happy to abuse Melbourne (as is the reverse of course), but I doubt that the cost of living is any different in Melbourne to any other part of Australia. If you have made the decision to emigrate to Australia, please don't change your mind, over such fears. I think you will regret that in later life. "So why didn't you go to Australia?" "Someone told me the cost of living was too high."

[buzzy--bee]

Minimum of $150,000

 

I would agree. Especially on the savings bit.

 

Things in Australia cost about $2.20 - $2.50 for every £1 you spend in the UK. Very roughly, that should help you with your calculations.

 

BB

[akiralx]

Minimum of $150,000

 

I would tend to agree.

[Suzukiscottie]

Plenty of immigrants have ventured to Australia on an income of far less than the figure mentioned above.

 

Regardless of what you earn, you live within your means.

 

You'll never know unless you go! (Plagiarised from the old NI tourist board ad) :-)

[Paul1Perth]

Plenty of immigrants have ventured to Australia on an income of far less than the figure mentioned above.

 

Regardless of what you earn, you live within your means.

 

You'll never know unless you go! (Plagiarised from the old NI tourist board ad) :-)

 

We've been living pretty well in Perth for the last 22 years. Put 2 kids through school and we are still not on $150,000 a year. I think me and the wife are pretty well paid too and quite happy with our lot. We have a nice house, close to a gorgeous beach and feel our standard of living is good. I sometimes don't know what people expect these days.

 

We live well within our means too, never overdrawn on the visa, it gets paid direct debit every month, we have an offset mortgage which has saved us a few years.

[MARYROSE02]

I think I must be netting about 1,000 quid a month from the UK (pension and rent) and about $20-25,000 in Australia (pension and wages), with no rent or mortgage or loans to pay.

 

I cope most of the time, though when I get a bill like the one for my operation, things get a bit tight. I really need to save up a bit of Aussie $ as I have some savings in UK.

 

I fancy people have the same financial worries whether they are in UK or OZ, but as I've said before, once you have planted that emigration 'seed', it's hard to reduce the migration question to one of 'X pounds = 2.5Y$/X' to figure out a 'sum' that decides whether you go or stay.

[jimmyay1]

The $150k a year figure is nonsense. There is no clear answer . It totally depends on where you live, and how much your outgoings are. Will you have a mortgage or are you you planning to be mortgage free? Will you need to rent in an expensive area for work, or can you live further out ? If you plan to buy a large family property with a minimal deposit in an expensive inner capital city suburb and a large mortgage, yes you will "need" a high income to service your large outgoings. Of course. If not, you won't.

 

We find the weekly shop for fresh food is no more dear than the UK , actually often cheaper than where we lived in London, for better quality .You just need to know where to go, avoid Coles gouging

etc.

 

Ditto fuel costs for cars, petrol's about half the price it is in the UK .

 

Some stuff is dearer, but if your overheads are low then you can make do with far, far less.

 

It's impossible to say what income you will need. You will need to do your own research.

Edited December 7, 2014 by jimmyay1