Guest Bora Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 While the TV was on in the back ground the other day a topic was up for discussion on a day time chat show (for the life of me, I cannot recall who it was but it's not important I suppose). The debate was singing national anthems in Schools. Then it went all political and stressy..... To begin with it was interesting to listen to callers state their opinions and I am wondering what peoples experiences/opinions are. My Son went to a School in NSW where they sang the Australian NA before class began which was very powerful and moving. Watching my Son sing a different anthem in a different country was mixed emotions for me - one part was telling me he should be singing our anthem (being British), another part saying what an great experience for him learning and participating in something new. Now were back in the UK he knows God Saves The Queen off by heart - something we never thought of teaching him upto now ! It brings a lump to my throat when he booms ....victorious, happy and glorious.....3 stupendous words (excluding the AND!) which sum up our great country and culture and makes me grateful to be from these amazing shores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix16 Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 As a POM I feel very proud when I go to the school assembly and hear my daughter blasting out the Australian National Anthem, after all she lives in Australia and goes to an Australian school, she's lived more of her life in Australia, has had the most amazing opportunities in Australia and is very happy in Australia! She then goes onto sing her school song and I cry even more!, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I am prepared to be shot down in flames by many (if not everyone) on here but I am not at all comfortable with the idea whatever country you are in. Notwithstanding that the UK NA is something of a dirge anyway, displays of blatant patriotism always make me squirm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix16 Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I just feel that actually patriotism is nice, appreciation for the country that has welcomed you with open arms, we live in a multi cultural society and it's nice that there is a common bond in patriotism, it unites us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernbird Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 The elementary school my daughter went to when we lived in Canada had their national anthem piped over the tannoy every single morning. Class had to stand with hand on heart and sing along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I just feel that actually patriotism is nice, appreciation for the country that has welcomed you with open arms, we live in a multi cultural society and it's nice that there is a common bond in patriotism, it unites us. Patriotism is not always nice though and can be a force for disunity and even conflict. You can appreciate the place you are living and respect the laws and customs without being compelled to sing an anthem every day. Brainwashing kids IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix16 Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 There is nothing wrong with a nation celebrating itself and gathering the patriotic momentum, as a POM I was so amazed at the enthusiasm that goes into Australia Day, bewildering initially, then just wonderful, perhaps UK should set a day aside every year to celebrate itself and wallow in patriotism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix16 Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Patriotism is not always nice though and can be a force for disunity and even conflict. You can appreciate the place you are living and respect the laws and customs without being compelled to sing an anthem every day. Brainwashing kids IMO. I really don't agree and I think you're just looking to inflame an argument so I'm simply not going to respond xxx kind regards xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conniebygaslight Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Patriotism is not always nice though and can be a force for disunity and even conflict. You can appreciate the place you are living and respect the laws and customs without being compelled to sing an anthem every day. Brainwashing kids IMO. Imo there is a distinct difference between patriotism and nationalism. It will be interesting to hear your opinions of brainwashing in Australia.....I couldn't believe how bad it was, felt like a cult lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 There is nothing wrong with a nation celebrating itself and gathering the patriotic momentum, as a POM I was so amazed at the enthusiasm that goes into Australia Day, bewildering initially, then just wonderful, perhaps UK should set a day aside every year to celebrate itself and wallow in patriotism. I have no problem with Australia Day (just the daily singing of anthems in schools seems inappropriate). I did feel a sense of pride in the UK in August/September 2012. The organisers, volunteers, athletes and spectators at the Olympics excelled themselves. Britain's finest hour IMO. On the flip side royal weddings, jubilees etc are a tad awkward and embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conniebygaslight Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I love all the pomp and circumstance because we don't do it very much, the Aussies are imo unbearable with 'aussie owned and made' on everything. Hell you ask for something that's not Australian and they look at you as though you've slapped them. I remember trying to buy pounds sterling from the NAB they looked at me with horror, and the girl at the airport was absolutely staggered when we said our tickets were one way. Creepy.....singing the national anthem is lovely if it's about pride, I found it to be about drilling it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix16 Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I have no problem with Australia Day (just the daily singing of anthems in schools seems inappropriate). I did feel a sense of pride in the UK in August/September 2012. The organisers, volunteers, athletes and spectators at the Olympics excelled themselves. Britain's finest hour IMO. On the flip side royal weddings, jubilees etc are a tad awkward and embarrassing. i think your comments are very articulate and spot on, my apologies xxxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 i think your comments are very articulate and spot on, my apologies xxxxxx Apologies not necessary. I am indeed very opinionated (unfortunately) but try not to be too provocative with those opinions - and I fully expect to get some flak for my views on this from some quarters tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix16 Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Imo there is a distinct difference between patriotism and nationalism. It will be interesting to hear your opinions of brainwashing in Australia.....I couldn't believe how bad it was, felt like a cult lol Pretty disappointing reply from a poster whose opinion I've always respected.... i do not have any religious background or affinity whatsoever, in fact my daughter hasn't even been christened, but I'm sending her to an Anglican school ( in Australia I feel I need to add), so my daughter comes home most days talking about Jesus, singing songs (quite good ones actually!) so, because it's in Australia, and besides all the religious songs, they do actually sing the national anthem, is she being doubly brainwashed??? Silly comment really, you are actually worthy of something more articulate.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bora Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Oh dear I do appear to have started something this afternoon. Going back to my OP my Son is only 8 years old. Personally I think it heart warming and it gets the blood racing to hear Children sing, and even more so when it's the hymme of the Country they live in, visit, born in, whatever. The circumstance isn't important. This isn't about hidden agenda's, deeper meaning stuff like religion/beliefs for goodness sakes (god, as adults they'll get enough of it as we do). At that age its no different to a Christmas Carol (jeez did I just write the word Christmas!). It's innocent and children don't interpret things as we do, as long as it is done in the right way (educational and inclusive way) is there anything wrong in this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I love all the pomp and circumstance because we don't do it very much, the Aussies are imo unbearable with 'aussie owned and made' on everything. Hell you ask for something that's not Australian and they look at you as though you've slapped them. I remember trying to buy pounds sterling from the NAB they looked at me with horror, and the girl at the airport was absolutely staggered when we said our tickets were one way. Creepy.....singing the national anthem is lovely if it's about pride, I found it to be about drilling it in. Righto! :shocked: a bank teller looked horrified when you asked for foreign currency? Come on:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surf N Turf Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I have no problem with Australia Day (just the daily singing of anthems in schools seems inappropriate). I did feel a sense of pride in the UK in August/September 2012. The organisers, volunteers, athletes and spectators at the Olympics excelled themselves. Britain's finest hour IMO. On the flip side royal weddings, jubilees etc are a tad awkward and embarrassing. I'd be very surprised if singing the national anthem was a daily event in schools. It was a weekly event when I was growing up and it's the same for my daughter now. I certainly don't know all the words and I'd be surprised if she did. Seems to involve lots of mumbling. It's not the best anthem out there. If that's an attempt at brainwashing then it's a slow-burn approach. Her class held assembly in their first year and ran it as a celebration of where they and their parents were all from. Hats decorated with flags from loads of different nations. Sometimes patriotism is just pride in where you live and if often runs alongside pride in where you came from. Doesn't have to be sinister unless you choose to interpret it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Patriotism is not always nice though and can be a force for disunity and even conflict. You can appreciate the place you are living and respect the laws and customs without being compelled to sing an anthem every day. Brainwashing kids IMO. Overdone in Australia and USA and Canada. It certainly wasn't so pushed years ago and recall the majority of Aussies not standing for the NA in the early 90's prior to a Rugby World Cup match against South Africa in Twickenham. Most all South Africans stood for their anthem. Quite a turn around. Howard's Tory govt was largely responsible for the growth in nationalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Oh dear I do appear to have started something this afternoon. Going back to my OP my Son is only 8 years old. Personally I think it heart warming and it gets the blood racing to hear Children sing, and even more so when it's the hymme of the Country they live in, visit, born in, whatever. The circumstance isn't important. This isn't about hidden agenda's, deeper meaning stuff like religion/beliefs for goodness sakes (god, as adults they'll get enough of it as we do). At that age its no different to a Christmas Carol (jeez did I just write the word Christmas!). It's innocent and children don't interpret things as we do, as long as it is done in the right way (educational and inclusive way) is there anything wrong in this? Although brainwashing kids at a young age is hardly unheard off around the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Pretty disappointing reply from a poster whose opinion I've always respected.... i do not have any religious background or affinity whatsoever, in fact my daughter hasn't even been christened, but I'm sending her to an Anglican school ( in Australia I feel I need to add), so my daughter comes home most days talking about Jesus, singing songs (quite good ones actually!) so, because it's in Australia, and besides all the religious songs, they do actually sing the national anthem, is she being doubly brainwashed??? Silly comment really, you are actually worthy of something more articulate.... Funny I didn't see it like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I love all the pomp and circumstance because we don't do it very much, the Aussies are imo unbearable with 'aussie owned and made' on everything. Hell you ask for something that's not Australian and they look at you as though you've slapped them. I remember trying to buy pounds sterling from the NAB they looked at me with horror, and the girl at the airport was absolutely staggered when we said our tickets were one way. Creepy.....singing the national anthem is lovely if it's about pride, I found it to be about drilling it in. Helps if it's a decent song as well. France, Germany, South Africa all have rousing tunes. Not much Aussie owned around these days surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surf N Turf Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Quote: I love all the pomp and circumstance because we don't do it very much, the Aussies are imo unbearable with 'aussie owned and made' on everything. Hell you ask for something that's not Australian and they look at you as though you've slapped them. I remember trying to buy pounds sterling from the NAB they looked at me with horror, and the girl at the airport was absolutely staggered when we said our tickets were one way. Creepy.....singing the national anthem is lovely if it's about pride, I found it to be about drilling it in. Righto! :shocked: a bank teller looked horrified when you asked for foreign currency? Come on:rolleyes: Me and my partner have managed to fly out of the country on one-way tickets without people being 'staggered'. We see what we expect/want to see. One persons simple, slack-jawed, brainwashed, unthinkingly patriotic Australian is another's immigration official doing their job. Whatever brightens your day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasepom Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Singing the national anthem is a mark of respect for the country and does help to create a national identity for children. This helps them see their place in the world and of community that they live in. In the world of political correctness it has somehow been seen as xenophobic or nationalistic to sing the anthem. The opposite view exists in my opinion that it is inclusive not exclusive. You see anthems used in Australia much more in Uk such as at AFL games cause they haven't been corrupted to think it's in anyway a bad thing. Celebration or love of your country as in your team is not a bad thing as long as it does not lead to bigotry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I am prepared to be shot down in flames by many (if not everyone) on here but I am not at all comfortable with the idea whatever country you are in. Notwithstanding that the UK NA is something of a dirge anyway, displays of blatant patriotism always make me squirm. If you squirm at a bunch of young kids singing the National Anthem, on a lovely sunny morning before school I think it's a shame. I found it quite refreshing that the kids would be outside early, running around usually, unfurling and hoisting the flag and then having a bit of a singsong before heading in to the classroom. Nothing more than a nice cheery start to the day. I don't think the kids saw it as any more than that. Me and the wife used to like going to see them at assembly when we had chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Imo there is a distinct difference between patriotism and nationalism. It will be interesting to hear your opinions of brainwashing in Australia.....I couldn't believe how bad it was, felt like a cult lol If I ever got to the point where I felt like my kids were being brainwashed I would have said and done something about it. As far as the kids went they never mentioned the National Anthem and singing to me in all their school days, it was just part of being at school here and I hope it stays. We were more interested in rolling up late for assembly and nicking off to the toilet for a crafty fag when we were at school. Rather have them outside singing the National Anthem any day. One of ours was 2 when we came and the other one born here. They are both proud to be Aussies, which is fine by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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