Tony Abbott has done it. He has stopped the boats.

[Parley]

Of course many have gone home voluntarily from a detention centre in Australia or Offshore which does imply they at least are not too fearful of where the came from.

Anyway we are going around in circles a bit but even the genuine ones should not be cherry picking Australia as the country they would love to live in and going straight there.

They should go to the nearest country they can.

[Guest]

That is an issue...but that isnt what you argue.

 

You want no boats arriving and are really happy that there hasn't been. If you were worried about human life you would want all boats that depart to safely arrive surely?

 

 

Just to add a little levity into what is a very serious thread. :smile:

[wakeboard1980]

For your information many in camps are not in possession of documents. They were hardly in possessions to approach local authorities in their home countries for papers and/or the situation in certain countries was far too chaotic for the issue of such documents. For your information countries in a state of civil/war often do not have a functioning system or the need to travel to the capital is not possible.

That is not to say many do have papers as well which enables them to board aircraft and do indeed destroy en route. A tactic well used to take enable a lodgement of claim to further their advantage but not illegal in itself.

 

Critical thinking indeed. What critical thinking is involved when the state breaks an agreement it has not only been part of the formation but signatory as well. Perhaps a bit of critical thinking may not go astray with regards to that.

 

Of course there is a racist element to the matter and ignorance to boot. I don't see any comments from the stop reffo brigade at any cost, concerned about looking at other more humane solutions. Not one comment on keeping kids locked up in such conditions. Yet I assume some of you would consider yourself fair parents? Yes how about discussing the in and outs instead churning the same rhetoric at least your not mentioning my alleged aged discrimination of late. (eyes turn around in head at disbelief)

You really do need to get over that, you are the one complaining yet continue to bring it up. Childish point scoring that Flag!

[Diane]

I know many would prefer the whole issue to be summed up in a three word slogan, but for those wanting to read a few facts about the issue, this is a very good article that shows both sides of the coin http://www.abc.net.au/news/interactives/operation-sovereign-borders-the-first-6-months/

[flag of convenience]

Of course many have gone home voluntarily from a detention centre in Australia or Offshore which does imply they at least are not too fearful of where the came from.

Anyway we are going around in circles a bit but even the genuine ones should not be cherry picking Australia as the country they would love to live in and going straight there.

They should go to the nearest country they can.

 

The facts of the matter are indeed hard to dispute. As for nearest country Australia fits the bill in many cases. As has been pointed out countless times there are few nations in the area that are signatory to the UNHCR agreement. That is the case like it or not.

[flag of convenience]

You really do need to get over that, you are the one complaining yet continue to bring it up. Childish point scoring that Flag!

 

I found the claim offensive to say the least and hardly relative to the matter on hand. Hardly churlish under the circumstances. Some try and a little smart for their own good and play dumb afterwards.

[flag of convenience]

I know many would prefer the whole issue to be summed up in a three word slogan, but for those wanting to read a few facts about the issue, this is a very good article that shows both sides of the coin http://www.abc.net.au/news/interactives/operation-sovereign-borders-the-first-6-months/

 

Well that is the glossy government version of things. An interesting point. The Lib's complained about the number of spin doctors working for the ALP on the matter of Ayslum Seekers, it would appear the Lib's employ some 66 on the same matter. Talk about hypercritical.

[MARYROSE02]

I understand that Australia is a long-standing signatory to the UNHCR Agreement/treaty, unlike most other countries in our region, but why does that mean Australia is obligated to take in any and every asylum seeker who makes their way here?

 

And every time I look at the figures for official resettlement of refugees, Australia is right up there towards the top, but you never acknowledge that fact.

 

You often talk about Australia's legal obligations, but you make no mention of the illegal nature of the boat owners and their crews? Just because they are carrying passengers who may be asylum seekers does not make their crime any the less.

[flag of convenience]

I understand that Australia is a long-standing signatory to the UNHCR Agreement/treaty, unlike most other countries in our region, but why does that mean Australia is obligated to take in any and every asylum seeker who makes their way here?

 

And every time I look at the figures for official resettlement of refugees, Australia is right up there towards the top, but you never acknowledge that fact.

 

You often talk about Australia's legal obligations, but you make no mention of the illegal nature of the boat owners and their crews? Just because they are carrying passengers who may be asylum seekers does not make their crime any the less.

 

As previously explained Australia ranks high on the official intake of selected refugees around 6,100 from memory. The remainder of the 7,000+ come in under humanitarian, often family members of already settled refugees, or women at risk make up both the additional intake taking the total to 13, 600 odd. Third roughly in official intake after USA and Canada, but as explained Germany has seen a 70% increase in applications in the past year. Many of these will not qualify and be rightly sent back when procedure rules them out. Out of close on 200,000, way dwarfing Australia, the great majority will not stay. Russians can hardly claim asylum these days, where many come from.

 

Nothing wrong with that at all. The laws are followed and most sent back. Indon crews are jailed in Australia. The vast majority of course being young semi or illiterate fisher folk with little knowledge about the offence caused. Although one may reasonably expect the message to have got out over time.

[flybyknight]

bit of a point to note.... arriving by boat unannounced without any papers isn't actually illegal.

kind of an important point tbh lol, the government would love you to think it is though, don't believe everything you hear on the telly.

 

from https://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/f/as-boat.php

 

"Asylum seekers who arrive in Australia by boat are not acting illegally. The UN Refugee Convention (to which Australia is a signatory) recognises that refugees have a lawful right to enter a country for the purposes of seeking asylum, regardless of how they arrive or whether they hold valid travel or identity documents. The Convention stipulates that what would usually be considered as illegal actions (e.g. entering a country without a visa) should not be treated as illegal if a person is seeking asylum.

In line with our obligations under the Convention, Australian law also permits unauthorised entry into Australia for the purposes of seeking asylum. Asylum seekers do not break any Australian laws simply by arriving on boats or without authorisation. This means that it is incorrect to refer to asylum seekers who arrive without authorisation as “illegal” entrants, as they in fact have a lawful right to enter Australia to seek asylum.

Permitting asylum seekers to entry a country without travel documents is similar to allowing ambulance drivers to exceed the speed limit in an emergency – the action would be ordinarily be considered illegal, but the under the circumstances it's reasonable to make an exception."

 

the truth of it is, Australia are the only country who treat their migrants to life in jail, and as such is contravening many international conventions and laws.

they don't tell you that on the news though eh!

 

I apologise if this has already been covered in this thread, 96 pages seems a lot to catch up on!

[MARYROSE02]

As previously explained Australia ranks high on the official intake of selected refugees around 6,100 from memory. The remainder of the 7,000+ come in under humanitarian, often family members of already settled refugees, or women at risk make up both the additional intake taking the total to 13, 600 odd. Third roughly in official intake after USA and Canada, but as explained Germany has seen a 70% increase in applications in the past year. Many of these will not qualify and be rightly sent back when procedure rules them out. Out of close on 200,000, way dwarfing Australia, the great majority will not stay. Russians can hardly claim asylum these days, where many come from.

 

Nothing wrong with that at all. The laws are followed and most sent back. Indon crews are jailed in Australia. The vast majority of course being young semi or illiterate fisher folk with little knowledge about the offence caused. Although one may reasonably expect the message to have got out over time.

 

What has Germany got to do with Australia, or any other country for that matter? Other countries may have different circumstances to Australia.

 

Why aren't you proud that Australia takes in so many refugees in relation to other countries? Why aren't you proud that Australia, unlike so many others, HAS signed the UN treaties and takes them seriously?

 

So what if the Indonesian crews are young and illiterate? Does that mean that all young and illiterate people have an excuse to commit crimes? And what about the owners of the boats? I doubt they are young and illiterate.

[Joebloggs]

As the father of a young child I am very concerned about these so called Asylum seekers, I know that we have home grown offenders but there is no need to import sex offenders and terrorists under the guise of 'poor' Asylum seekers.

 

Afghani asylum seeker Mohammed Salem Nazari pleads guilty to two charges of indecent assault of seven teenage girls | thetelegraph.com.au

 

Bangladeshi asylum seeker Rubel Sheikh jailed 15 months for sexually assaulting blind victim on train | thetelegraph.com.au

 

Asylum seeker charged over alleged sex assault at Macquarie University | The Australian

 

Victorian Man Arrested in NSW Over the Abduction and Sexual Assault of a Nine (ignore the 'Victorian man' he is actually an Asylum seeker on a bridging visa from Afghanistan)

 

 

Oh and it seems when they don't get their way they pull out the old Terrorist threats.

 

ARASH SEDIGH (on asylum seeker boat): They put us in this f**king orange boat and sent us back to Indonesia. And the Navy was escorting that ship until today. ... F**k Australia. ... I said to them, "You are criminals". If later on you said why they do that to America on September 11, you should know the cause of it is your very deeds. Remember 9-11 for United States. All the world should know why. Australian Government, Tony Abbott, Scott Morrison, Immigration - all of them are the smugglers.

 

MAN (on asylum seeker boat): F**k Australia!

 

 

 

What will happen when they wont get their own way in Australia, send their kids into centrelink with a bomb vest if they don't get the benefits they want?

 

 

I'm sure there will be a few idiots who will claim that this is only a small proportion of asylum seekers but these few people are a cancer, when you have a cancerous tumor it has to be cut out and often have to remove healthy tissue as well as a precaution.

[Parley]

bit of a point to note.... arriving by boat unannounced without any papers isn't actually illegal.

I apologise if this has already been covered in this thread, 96 pages seems a lot to catch up on!

 

Yes it has been covered. It is illegal and I think it is article 31 (from memory) of the charter which refers to them entering illegally.

The clause is posted earlier in the thread somewhere.

[wakeboard1980]

Yes it has been covered. It is illegal and I think it is article 31 (from memory) of the charter which refers to them entering illegally.

The clause is posted earlier in the thread somewhere.

 

This is interesting from the refugee council. It would seem they are not illegal if the arrive directly from he country they are fleeing. So in that regard getting to Indonesia and then paying a people smuggler to get them to Aus may mean they are in fact doing it illegally.

Article 31 of the Refugee Convention prohibits states parties from imposing penalties on refugees who, when coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened, enter or are present in their territory without authorisation, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and can show good cause for their illegal entry or presence.

 

There are obviously more points on tat website that are relevant to this debate but as far as the thread title is concerned the way I interpret the above would mean that the way they get to Australia in not in fact legal.

 

https://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/f/who-conv.php

[Bobj]

The ID card

The other day I needed to go to the public hospital but not wanting to sit there for 4 hours, I put on my blue jacket and pinned on a plastic ID card that I had made off the Internet onto the front of my jacket...

 

When I went into the hospital, I noticed that 3 quarters of the peoplegot up and left. I guess they decided that they weren't that sick after all. Cut at least 3 hours off my waiting time.

Here's the patch. Feel free to use it the next time you're in need of quicker emergency service:

*

*

 

 

It also works at Centrelink. It saved me 2 hours.

Don't try it at McDonald's though.....

The whole staff disappeared and I never got my order!!!!!!

 

Oh, well...

 

Cheers, Bobj.

[Parley]

I'm sure its funny Bob, but your picture is not displaying.

[Bobj]

I'm sure its funny Bob, but your picture is not displaying.

 

 

Any help?

 

[Parley]

No.

Maybe it is just me.

[Bobj]

No.

Maybe it is just me.

 

[Parley]

Now I can see it.

It must have been you.

[Bobj]

Now I can see it.

It must have been you.

 

 

:tongue:

[ArthurPendragon]

The ID card

The other day I needed to go to the public hospital but not wanting to sit there for 4 hours, I put on my blue jacket and pinned on a plastic ID card that I had made off the Internet onto the front of my jacket...

 

When I went into the hospital, I noticed that 3 quarters of the peoplegot up and left. I guess they decided that they weren't that sick after all. Cut at least 3 hours off my waiting time.

Here's the patch. Feel free to use it the next time you're in need of quicker emergency service:

*

*

 

 

It also works at Centrelink. It saved me 2 hours.

Don't try it at McDonald's though.....

The whole staff disappeared and I never got my order!!!!!!

 

Oh, well...

 

Cheers, Bobj.

Was this in England or here? And does this qualify as humor anywhere?

[flag of convenience]

What has Germany got to do with Australia, or any other country for that matter? Other countries may have different circumstances to Australia.

 

Why aren't you proud that Australia takes in so many refugees in relation to other countries? Why aren't you proud that Australia, unlike so many others, HAS signed the UN treaties and takes them seriously?

 

So what if the Indonesian crews are young and illiterate? Does that mean that all young and illiterate people have an excuse to commit crimes? And what about the owners of the boats? I doubt they are young and illiterate.

 

Obviously Germany, I country I know well, was used as an example to underline the legal procedure taken by other countries with regards to the issue. You continue to rant about Australia's high intake and I reply by stating it is not high on an international level. As noted the intake is low by international standards. What exactly there is to be proud off, I don't know? Rather the opposite in fact with Australia knee jerk handling of the matter consisting of locking up people including kids.

We will never come anywhere close to an understanding on the subject especially with comments relating to pride.

[Parley]

Aren't we something like 2nd or 3rd per capita ?

[flag of convenience]

As the father of a young child I am very concerned about these so called Asylum seekers, I know that we have home grown offenders but there is no need to import sex offenders and terrorists under the guise of 'poor' Asylum seekers.

 

Afghani asylum seeker Mohammed Salem Nazari pleads guilty to two charges of indecent assault of seven teenage girls | thetelegraph.com.au

 

Bangladeshi asylum seeker Rubel Sheikh jailed 15 months for sexually assaulting blind victim on train | thetelegraph.com.au

 

Asylum seeker charged over alleged sex assault at Macquarie University | The Australian

 

Victorian Man Arrested in NSW Over the Abduction and Sexual Assault of a Nine (ignore the 'Victorian man' he is actually an Asylum seeker on a bridging visa from Afghanistan)

 

 

Oh and it seems when they don't get their way they pull out the old Terrorist threats.

 

 

 

What will happen when they wont get their own way in Australia, send their kids into centrelink with a bomb vest if they don't get the benefits they want?

 

 

I'm sure there will be a few idiots who will claim that this is only a small proportion of asylum seekers but these few people are a cancer, when you have a cancerous tumor it has to be cut out and often have to remove healthy tissue as well as a precaution.

 

I'm rather surprised how few incidents there have been, unrelated to the above sexual ones you have dug out above. Considering many tens of thousands are living in the community, not allowed to work, living on less than New Start in substandard conditions, largely dependant on chartable organizations to get by.

 

Easy to cherry pick but I'd suggest far more instances could be trawled up on legal migrants misconduct. Often in that case the name is usually the give away and not a few taxi drivers, among others of particular ethnic backgrounds, here in Perth have been had up on sexual misconduct charges. Still not used to bash that group in the media as that would be racism.

 

It could just as be easily argued that with the murders of four foreign students in Brisbane in recent months that Brisbane or indeed Australia is an unsafe place to come to study.