An Arrogant Australia

[Bobj]

I'm not commenting on the result of the test series, but about your dismissive attitude to mental illness. Trott was as incapacitated by his illness as if he had ruptured his achilles. I do hope that no one you care about suffers the misfortune of mental illness, because you'll no doubt tell them they are making it up and they should pull themselves together. I suggest a quiet information gathering visit to a site like beyond blue to understand a little more - about a third of people, so I understand, will suffer an episode of mental illness at some point during their lives. Chances are, someone you know and care about is among them. I'm sure they appreciate your comments.

 

The pommy management ostensibly used 'mental illness', but still an excuse for poor sportsmanship.:wink:

 

Cheers, Bobj.

[Peach]

The pommy management ostensibly used 'mental illness', but still an excuse for poor sportsmanship.:wink:

 

Cheers, Bobj.

 

Did that sound funny in your head? The humour has been lost somewhere....

[Slean Wolfhead]

Quite a lot were like my Great Uncle. He emigrated to Australia from London aged in his teens then joined up when the war started in the following year. They sent him back to France where he died on the Somme. Looking at historical records I see that a number of those boys were former Londoners who joined the AIF.

 

There's a sad story there of a young family emigrating here, and the young dad was only here a month before leaving his wife and 2 kids to go back to Belgium and fight in the war. He was killed almost immediately but the family became Australian and are still living here today, Victoria i think.

[Slean Wolfhead]

Err, the British when building their empire??

 

Cheers, Bobj.

 

Yep. The main point of principle of the American War of Independence was their desire to be treated as "free born Englishmen", and not the foreign workforce of a colony. Pretty good arguing point really.

[Slean Wolfhead]

You've never seen "Last Night at the Proms" then?......................Still fiinishing with "Rule Brittania" long after the empire has crumbled.

 

That's just a bit of fun though, they do one at the Opera House in Sydney.

[Johndoe]

That's just a bit of fun though

 

I beg to differ................IMHO most of those toffs prancing up and down, waving Union jacks, live with a Victorian mentality of how Britain is...................or should be.

[Guest Ptp113]

Did that sound funny in your head? The humour has been lost somewhere....

Nah, I don't think so

[Guest Ptp113]

I beg to differ................IMHO most of those toffs prancing up and down, waving Union jacks, live with a Victorian mentality of how Britain is...................or should be.

If only they knew how idiotic they appear

[flag of convenience]

Err, the British when building their empire??

 

Cheers, Bobj.

 

Indeed. But before my time. Although was living there throughout the crass jingoism that was part and parcel of The Falklands campaign, so point taken.

[flag of convenience]

That's just a bit of fun though, they do one at the Opera House in Sydney.

 

I love last night at the Proms on tv and at the Albert Hall,and on three occasions have attended the Perth version of it. Good for a sing along and stirring stuff of glory days long gong. Surely nothing but fun or at worst a touch of nostalgia for others. I rather like traditions of all countries and can join in equally if understand what's happening.

[flag of convenience]

I beg to differ................IMHO most of those toffs prancing up and down, waving Union jacks, live with a Victorian mentality of how Britain is...................or should be.

 

Not only toffs you even get Americans waving The Union flag. Saw an Aussie flag at a recent one on tv as well as a couple of German. All good stuff. Even the toffs deserve a night out.

[starlight7]

We go to the Victorian version of Last Night at the Proms at the defence force academy. They hand out streamers and Union Jacks to wave. I love it- the audience is mixed Aus and British. What ho, jolly good show chaps hehe. Can't beat a bit of patriotism. I also love Australia Day and put flags up and have a BBQ with lamb chops. Move over Sam Kekovitch.

[Que Sera Sera]

We go to the Victorian version of Last Night at the Proms at the defence force academy. They hand out streamers and Union Jacks to wave. I love it- the audience is mixed Aus and British. What ho, jolly good show chaps hehe. Can't beat a bit of patriotism. I also love Australia Day and put flags up and have a BBQ with lamb chops. Move over Sam Kekovitch.

Ooh Lamb Chops yum yum yum!

[Peccavi]

Yep. I hate it too. It's what scares me about moving back to Australia after all this time. Nowhere is perfect, but there is definitely a 'this is the best country in the world' thing happening. Even my dad goes on about Australia being 'the best country in the world' to which me and my siblings roll our eyes. How would he know? He's never been anywhere else. There's a lot like him too. Being an island continent bordered by the Indian, Pacific and Southern Oceans may bring you good weather, but the isolation also brings a degree of ignorance about the rest of the world.

 

As for Patriotism, it certainly was nowhere near as prevalent or strong when I left in the late 90s. There seems to have been a resurgence over the last 10 years or so and especially since 9/11 and the Bali bombings. I've noticed the same thing happening here.

 

People need to chill out, learn about the rest of the world and grow the hell up. Sport is just sport, no matter how much you love it, and no country 'the best'. I completely sympathise with your decision. The longer I'm away the less I feel I belong anywhere and the more I want to go buy an island somewhere and start again without all the stupid people.

 

Really liked your post! The highlight though I can't agree with. Again, -since posting last I had someone say 'why would you leave Australia for this ....'. This time I got angry (I think I scared them!). We ended up having a good conversation.

 

Tbh I would like to see a bit more pride in country, but as wozname said 'patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel'. It is. 'Patriotism' like religion has excused countless deaths historically.............and yes! the British Empire were damn good at that!

 

It's a little odd just how far certain Aussies and the press take it. I don't recall any other country apart from USA where such crass patriotism is in such evidence. Of course other countries you will meet individuals with similar feelings(Scandinavia comes to mind) but seldom with the same ignorant intensity. It is interesting to note both USA and Australia are somewhat remote from the world and large countries living within their own worlds. Although the USA does have land borders it is not apparent like Europe for example where one is constantly surrounded by cars from a host of neighbouring nations.

Hopefully it doesn't manifest into something more ugly further down the road. For the moment Australia is inclusive for most groups of people that come from elsewhere as are the nations symbols.

 

Cronulla?

 

They weren't fighting for Australia...they were fighting very consciously for "home" or Britain. That's why the (very Irish) Roman Catholic Church in Australia was openly very antagonist to the Australian participation supporting Britain as the Church was very anti English.

 

Many of the casualties didn't even make it to their twenties...they died as teenagers.

 

This is incredibly sad, and true. And yes,- I am going to use it to show that this resentment is still manifest.

 

You've never seen "Last Night at the Proms" then?......................Still fiinishing with "Rule Brittania" long after the empire has crumbled.

 

Crikey!! What an example! Showing British patriotism by referring to a yearly concert where it is implicit to turn up in 'uniform' and behave like a plonker!........it's fun.

 

The pommy management ostensibly used 'mental illness', but still an excuse for poor sportsmanship.:wink:

 

Cheers, Bobj.

 

My God.

 

Yep. The main point of principle of the American War of Independence was their desire to be treated as "free born Englishmen", and not the foreign workforce of a colony. Pretty good arguing point really.

 

So it is. And it was necessary. Why the causal resentment because of this injustice is then denied, is beyond me.

 

If only they knew how idiotic they appear

 

Ooooo I know. The thousands who watch this globally every year only do so so that they can say 'look at those idiots'.

[fensaddler]

I'm not comfortable with overt displays of nationalism of any stripe - but I tend to the view that the British are just as bad at it as anyone else, but different to its manifestation in Australia, and different again to the US. I was never comfortable with Last Night of the Proms - too much about it felt like people hankering for the empire, and the UK being top dog. And whilst the Empire, inevitably wasn't all bad ('what did the Romans ever do for us') it is not an era I'd want to go back to. As many have commented here, many pretty appalling things were done in its name. But like many of us living in a different country to that I grew up in, the experience of being a migrant has helped me to understand just how much of what I am is owed to that background, and how British I am in my attitudes and customs.

[Guest Ptp113]

Really liked your post! The highlight though I can't agree with. Again, -since posting last I had someone say 'why would you leave Australia for this ....'. This time I got angry (I think I scared them!). We ended up having a good conversation.

 

Tbh I would like to see a bit more pride in country, but as wozname said 'patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel'. It is. 'Patriotism' like religion has excused countless deaths historically.............and yes! the British Empire were damn good at that!

 

 

 

Cronulla?

 

 

 

This is incredibly sad, and true. And yes,- I am going to use it to show that this resentment is still manifest.

 

 

 

Crikey!! What an example! Showing British patriotism by referring to a yearly concert where it is implicit to turn up in 'uniform' and behave like a plonker!........it's fun.

 

 

 

My God.

 

 

 

So it is. And it was necessary. Why the causal resentment because of this injustice is then denied, is beyond me.

 

 

 

Ooooo I know. The thousands who watch this globally every year only do so so that they can say 'look at those idiots'.

 

At least you recognise it. Maybe there is hope for a PB like you yet?

[flag of convenience]

I'm not comfortable with overt displays of nationalism of any stripe - but I tend to the view that the British are just as bad at it as anyone else, but different to its manifestation in Australia, and different again to the US. I was never comfortable with Last Night of the Proms - too much about it felt like people hankering for the empire, and the UK being top dog. And whilst the Empire, inevitably wasn't all bad ('what did the Romans ever do for us') it is not an era I'd want to go back to. As many have commented here, many pretty appalling things were done in its name. But like many of us living in a different country to that I grew up in, the experience of being a migrant has helped me to understand just how much of what I am is owed to that background, and how British I am in my attitudes and customs.

 

As long as other folk are free to wave their national flags, and an international crowd welcomed, as is the case at The Proms I don't see it a big issue. If the reverse was the case I would certainly question the event as an ugly relic of nationalism and shouldn't get international coverage.

[Johndoe]

 

 

Crikey!! What an example! Showing British patriotism by referring to a yearly concert where it is implicit to turn up in 'uniform' and behave like a plonker!........it's fun.

 

 

 

 

Is it? Why then when it is displayed in Oz by so many "Oz malcontents" are they so quick to describe it as "immaturity" or "overt patritism of the worst kind"? Kindly explain the difference.

[Peccavi]

At least you recognise it. Maybe there is hope for a PB like you yet?

 

I'm sure someone has mentioned it, but what IS this PB thing?

 

Wasn't a compliment was it Coventry.......?

[Sir Les Patterson]

I'm sure someone has mentioned it, but what IS this PB thing?

 

Wasn't a compliment was it Coventry.......?

 

Pommy Bastard to you

[Peccavi]

Is it? Why then when it is displayed in Oz by so many "Oz malcontents" are they so quick to describe it as "immaturity" or "overt patritism of the worst kind"? Kindly explain the difference.

 

Happy to. (After I deciphered your sentence!).

 

Because the Proms is a social event. It's froth, it's fun, it's silly. Don't get me wrong-there is a strong overt display of national fervour there.........with some notable flags being waved btw..

 

It is patriotism not directed at the Australians.

 

When comment is made about- and I quote verbatim: "we are ahead of the Brits" (this was the early days of the Olympics-it was said by the former Sunrise female co-host),--not 'we are ahead of France/ Spain/ ...er, Japan', whatever; "we are ahead of the Brits".

 

When an ABC! documentary showed a beach with stumps running up the beach-two rows of them (a former pier?), and said "we put the British in there so we don't have to mix with them" (verbatim)--not 'we put the Italians/ Chinese/ ...'whatever,--

 

That IS patriotism directed against the British.

 

Now I could call that something else as it is directed at an island group of nations, but I'll call it immature..

 

Because it is.

 

One of the obvious signs of this is denial. Nothing is ever acknowledged-even when there is recorded evidence of it!

It's the la la la hands over ears stamping foot denial.

 

That speaks volumes.

[Peach]

I beg to differ................IMHO most of those toffs prancing up and down, waving Union jacks, live with a Victorian mentality of how Britain is...................or should be.

 

You've been living out of the UK too long. The Proms was all about bringing music to the common man. Granted it takes a certain type of person to attend half-a-dozen of the earlier proms to get invited to the last night. But across the whole country thousands of people flock to the outside events and BBC big screens to take part. Toffs it is not.....

[Pommyaussie]

Yep. I hate it too. It's what scares me about moving back to Australia after all this time. Nowhere is perfect, but there is definitely a 'this is the best country in the world' thing happening. Even my dad goes on about Australia being 'the best country in the world' to which me and my siblings roll our eyes. How would he know? He's never been anywhere else. There's a lot like him too. Being an island continent bordered by the Indian, Pacific and Southern Oceans may bring you good weather, but the isolation also brings a degree of ignorance about the rest of the world.

 

As for Patriotism, it certainly was nowhere near as prevalent or strong when I left in the late 90s. There seems to have been a resurgence over the last 10 years or so and especially since 9/11 and the Bali bombings. I've noticed the same thing happening here.

 

People need to chill out, learn about the rest of the world and grow the hell up. Sport is just sport, no matter how much you love it, and no country 'the best'. I completely sympathise with your decision. The longer I'm away the less I feel I belong anywhere and the more I want to go buy an island somewhere and start again without all the stupid people.

That's what I did - moved to an island - however where there are people there are human traits and there are still stupid people.

 

Just that there are less of them:biglaugh:

[Pommyaussie]

The Proms - here's my take on it;

 

It comes across as a load of sentimental British people sticking two fingers up at all the empires they took over and won. I'm not a royalist so God save the queen get's right on my boobs.

 

But for those who love that sort of thing - knock yourself out - you're not hurting anyone with yer bands and singing :biglaugh:

 

Australia day - here's my take on it;:

 

It celebrates the day the country was founded by western civilisation and made into what it is today by everyone from all nations including the original landowners and to everyone throughout this time who helped build it to what it is today.

 

But for those who love that sort of thing - knock yourself out - you're not hurting anyone with yer silly inflatable beach toys, daft hats and pissups :biglaugh:

[flag of convenience]

The Proms - here's my take on it;

 

It comes across as a load of sentimental British people sticking two fingers up at all the empires they took over and won. I'm not a royalist so God save the queen get's right on my boobs.

 

But for those who love that sort of thing - knock yourself out - you're not hurting anyone with yer bands and singing :biglaugh:

 

Australia day - here's my take on it;:

 

It celebrates the day the country was founded by western civilisation and made into what it is today by everyone from all nations including the original landowners and to everyone throughout this time who helped build it to what it is today.

 

But for those who love that sort of thing - knock yourself out - you're not hurting anyone with yer silly inflatable beach toys, daft hats and pissups :biglaugh:

 

The difference being with Australia Day it is a celebration of all things Aussie and outside symbols would not be welcome. OZ Day here in Perth at least has seen some violent incidences in the past, though not for several years that I'm aware.The Proms on the other hand embraces visitors or at least accepts the display of other nations flags. All in the sense of a rollicking good time.