flag of convenience Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I think you've hit the nail on the head BC. To know whether he was lawfully killed I reckon you would have had to be in those policemans shoes with a split second to make a decision. Wrong decision and it could be you lying on the pavement. Just like that Evening Standard news seller unlawfully killed by a copper in London a few years back. Thank goodness for independent film footage these days and we don't have to accept the official version as being the correct one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 No, it's way too cold. They might wait till Summer though. Yes you don't tend to get civil disobedience during winter on British streets. Of course the time could change when folk really feel they have little to loose due to more far fetching issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simmo Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 ‘lovely young boy’ who tried to keep peace. "he was a peacemaker, was not in a gang and was no danger to the public." "a ‘peaceful’ family man who abhorred violence." really? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2536197/Mark-Duggan-Arms-draped-two-violent-gangsters-thug-death-sparked-riots.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 ‘lovely young boy’ who tried to keep peace."he was a peacemaker, was not in a gang and was no danger to the public." "a ‘peaceful’ family man who abhorred violence." really? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2536197/Mark-Duggan-Arms-draped-two-violent-gangsters-thug-death-sparked-riots.html Did you expect anything else Simmo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simmo Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 Did you expect anything else Simmo? I can't understand all the protesting TBH, surely the family and friens must have known what kind of character he was and accept the outcome with some sort of dignity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 It was never going to happen mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tappers2oz Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 This is hilarious, I suppose its the daily mails fault that Duggan was shot. Ah boy the excuses in twitter are ridicules. 'Because he was black' is the main one, no nothing to do with having a gun I'm sure. A gun that was made to fire blanks but had been converted to fire live rounds! You carry a gun/knife then you deal with the consequences of those actions and your family too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andy Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Ah boy the excuses in twitter are ridicules. 'Because he was black' is the main one, no nothing to do with having a gun I'm sure. A gun that was made to fire blanks but had been converted to fire live rounds! You carry a gun/knife then you deal with the consequences of those actions and your family too. I could not agree more, for me it's another animal off the streets, if you carry a gun you should be prepared to take the consequences, the same as if you carry a knife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulv Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I look forward to the next gun related murder trial when the perp refers to the reasoning for this shooting - "I killed him to prevent him possibly committing a crime in future". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peccavi Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I only know what I saw on the news today and yesterday. I wasn't here and I can't comment on this case. But one thing I can say: I wonder if any one of us would post as we have, if this was our child? Yep! I know the responses I'll get to that about his nature/behaviour/family etc. It is so predictable I won't respond. I still say that it might be different if it was our child or that of friends. Would we then be so concerned about the inconvenience of riots, and making jokes about stealing televisions? Maybe if this lad had been born on the right side of the tracks our reactions might have been different? Okey dokey; take your shots! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I only know what I saw on the news today and yesterday. I wasn't here and I can't comment on this case. But one thing I can say: I wonder if any one of us would post as we have, if this was our child? I don't think he was a child. He was an adult. He'd already come onto the police radar for gang related activities. He'd just met a suspected felon and received a parcel from him. Personally, I think he twigged it was the police making the hard stop and tried to get rid of the gun asap. Unfortunately when you've got several armed police around you, you can't guarantee what perspective each one will have. The question is; had they not stopped the taxi, what would he have done with the weapon? Handed it in? Dount it. Used it for the purposes of intimidation. Maybe. Killed someone? Passed it on? I'm just glad the taxi driver wasn't shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeegieDave Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Was it because he was black? Absolutely not!! He was a wannabe gangster running about doing drug deals with a loaded hand gun. Dangerous character and I don't hold much sympathy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andy Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I only know what I saw on the news today and yesterday. I wasn't here and I can't comment on this case. But one thing I can say: I wonder if any one of us would post as we have, if this was our child? Yep! I know the responses I'll get to that about his nature/behaviour/family etc. It is so predictable I won't respond. I still say that it might be different if it was our child or that of friends. Would we then be so concerned about the inconvenience of riots, and making jokes about stealing televisions? Maybe if this lad had been born on the right side of the tracks our reactions might have been different? Okey dokey; take your shots! He was not a child, he was a 29 year old gangster who was linked to 10 shootings and 2 murders, he was also a member of a violent gang. Also I wonder how you would feel if your innocent child was caught in the cross fire between rival gangs and was murdered by scum such as duggan just like that little boy in Liverpool a few years back. You may have sympathy for him but I have none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpo1971 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 A scumbag who became a martyr for a pretend cause. A common theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttercup Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 He was carrying a loaded gun and was a member of a gang FFS! What did people want to happen- open fire on a croud then let the police take a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peccavi Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 He was not a child, he was a 29 year old gangster who was linked to 10 shootings and 2 murders, he was also a member of a violent gang. Also I wonder how you would feel if your innocent child was caught in the cross fire between rival gangs and was murdered by scum such as duggan just like that little boy in Liverpool a few years back. You may have sympathy for him but I have none. This one merits an answer. I was not defending the man, I was talking about the levity over a death. Don't impose this odious reasoning on me. Read what I wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikey Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Yes, u have to feel sorry for the mother. He was her child. I DO think the world is a safer place without him tho and I am pleased he wont b able to ruin anymore lives. Anyone remember the copper who was blinded by raoul moat and then committed suicide two years later. That was an article on the news too, but right at the end and very brief. The irony......I feel sorry for his mum, wife, kids too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andy Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 This one merits an answer. I was not defending the man, I was talking about the levity over a death. Don't impose this odious reasoning on me. Read what I wrote. You said "take your shots" and I did, if you don't like it, tough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulv Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 You said "take your shots" and I did, if you don't like it, tough Is it special ladies time, Andy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andy Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Is it special ladies time, Andy? Not at all, I was just answering in kind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon4017 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Anyone remember the copper who was blinded by raoul moat and then committed suicide two years later. That was an article on the news too, but right at the end and very brief. The irony......I feel sorry for his mum, wife, kids too This is an interesting link, because I'm sure this case plays on the minds of most police officers. Especially armed officers are are about to face down a potentially lethal suspect. But the question remains: were the police predisposed to shooting the suspect (either because of cases like the one you highlighted, or because of information given during pre-op briefings), or were they reacting appropriately to the situation on the ground as it unfolded? AFAIK, only the officer who shot claimed to have seen a gun, and even then he only thought he saw a gun. The facts don't really support his claim. The weapon was only found after a considerable search. I don't like to criticize officers who are placed in great danger and have to make split second decisions with limited information, but I have to ask the following: If it is lawful to kill the suspect in this case, under what circumstances would it be unlawful to kill someone? If a police officer can simply claim "I thought I saw a gun" without any foundation to the claim, are we setting a precedent for future mitigation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Grey Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Might be completely made up, but I loved some of the comments from the BBC interview with one of the only witnesses who gave evidence. He was 150m away watching from his window and said he could clearly see he had a silver mobile phone in his hands and not a gun. He also said he had a "baffled" expression on his face. Unless the witness was Steve Austin I think he was telling a few porkies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikey Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I think he was the only one to see the "phone". Seems unlikey.... Might be completely made up, but I loved some of the comments from the BBC interview with one of the only witnesses who gave evidence. He was 150m away watching from his window and said he could clearly see he had a silver mobile phone in his hands and not a gun. He also said he had a "baffled" expression on his face. Unless the witness was Steve Austin I think he was telling a few porkies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikey Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 There was a gun though......and it was a jury's decision. I agree it is a very fine line. This is an interesting link, because I'm sure this case plays on the minds of most police officers. Especially armed officers are are about to face down a potentially lethal suspect. But the question remains: were the police predisposed to shooting the suspect (either because of cases like the one you highlighted, or because of information given during pre-op briefings), or were they reacting appropriately to the situation on the ground as it unfolded? AFAIK, only the officer who shot claimed to have seen a gun, and even then he only thought he saw a gun. The facts don't really support his claim. The weapon was only found after a considerable search. I don't like to criticize officers who are placed in great danger and have to make split second decisions with limited information, but I have to ask the following: If it is lawful to kill the suspect in this case, under what circumstances would it be unlawful to kill someone? If a police officer can simply claim "I thought I saw a gun" without any foundation to the claim, are we setting a precedent for future mitigation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simmo Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 Good news the family have appealed for peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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