Renting vs Buying

[Rupert]

Tbf I think you've been lucky. We've rented five houses in Aus and in all but one we've had to put up with three monthly inspections. In most cases it's in the contract and very much much depends on the landlord or agent you get re how fussy they are. I remember one of ours complaining that there were some toys on the floor when she came round - I had three under 5s at the time. The place was immaculate - I even had to wash the walls before she came round and try to get rid of any marks with jif! It was so stressful living there and I hated it. I wouldn't mind, but all the appliances were outdated and not really safe and my husband almost killed himself when he walked into a glass door which broke into long shards - I had no idea that safety glass wasn't a legal requirement in rental properties. Thank god it wasn't one of our children who walked into it!

The second one we had was completely different - the landlords had moved to Canberra and we could do what we liked within reason. It definitely helped us feel more settled and that the house was 'ours'.

We've got used to agents and landlords trying to rip us off re getting our bond back too. In our house in Sydney I took over 200 photos which I emailed to the agent when we moved in, showing every mark, hole, bit of mould, weed, everything. When they tried to keep $2k of our bond when we moved out I reminded her of the photos and miraculously we got the whole lot back.

 

I remember phoning the tenants association in Sydney about the landlords just turning up at weekends with no notice and they were very clear that when you pay rent you are paying for the right to live in that house in peace as though it's your own. Didn't make one bit of difference and they'd still turn up at 8 am on a Saturday morning! They just pretended they didn't understand us!

 

I agree about the pictures. We used the sticky hooks with no problem -they're really strong, but peel off pretty easily when you want them to. You can also use the metal ones and just fill in the holes when you leave.

 

No I can categorically tell you I have not been lucky.

 

There is no way I would leave my dealings with anyone down to luck, I take control. I am assertive, I am also a good tenant. There is no way I would roll over and put up with being inspected every three months, I would make that patently clear. I would move if I had to and because I am a good tenant and any landlord should be very glad to have me.

 

Before we moved in, they told me that the landlord had decided to leave this big antique Chinese cupboard in the living room because it was too hard to move it. Calmly, with a smile but firmly, I told them that either they could remove it or I would and if I needed to cut it into smaller pieces with an axe to get it downstairs then that is what I would do. It was gone next day. Tenants, stand up for yourself (and be good tenants - always pay on time and keep the place nice).

[caramac]

No I can categorically tell you I have not been lucky.

 

There is no way I would leave my dealings with anyone down to luck, I take control. I am assertive, I am also a good tenant. There is no way I would roll over and put up with being inspected every three months, I would make that patently clear. I would move if I had to and because I am a good tenant and any landlord should be very glad to have me.

 

Before we moved in, they told me that the landlord had decided to leave this big antique Chinese cupboard in the living room because it was too hard to move it. Calmly, with a smile but firmly, I told them that either they could remove it or I would and if I needed to cut it into smaller pieces with an axe to get it downstairs then that is what I would do. It was gone next day. Tenants, stand up for yourself (and be good tenants - always pay on time and keep the place nice).

 

 

I absolutely agree with you. You have to be assertive. When we moved into our house in Sydney it was filthy. I went straight up to the agents and told them I wouldn't be signing any forms or leaving the office until someone came to clean it. The rest of the office kept looking at me nervously - the owner was a formidable woman and obviously wasn't used to being stood up to. I was polite, but firm. She told me she was far too busy to come down and have a look at the house, didn't I know she had a whole office to run? I insisted on having some cleaners at the landlords expense by that afternoon and sat down opposite her desk, smiling at her. Eventually she phoned the owners who insisted that they'd cleaned the place at the weekend. I told her that obviously they had a different idea of clean from mine (there was still bacon in the grill and pubes in the plug holes in all the bathrooms!!). She then moved into speaking Chinese so I couldn't understand her. However, it had the result that two girls were booked to arrive at 1pm and I watched over them for 5 hours while they cleaned to my standard.

I told the agent I was either washing or taking down the disgustingly filthy net curtains and was told I was a weird English person, didn't I know that Australians don't wash net curtains!!

We have stood up for ourselves - even ending up at a tribunal in Melbourne which we won and the magistrate wiped the floor with the landlord and the agent, telling them they should make themselves more aware of the law before bringing another ridiculous case before her, but if something, like inspections are written into the contract (and in every case of ours they have been) they can be insisted on. In our experience some follow them up, others don't.

We are good tenants - we always pay on time, in full, keep the places clean and tidy and pay for proper exit cleans before we leave. We always get good feedback from landlords which makes it so easy for us to rent again. It's simply that some landlords/agents are better, or fairer than others however assertive or good you are.

I would always protect myself with taking photos, not signing anything I'm not happy with in any rental I take on.

[gpo1971]

Mmmm ... bacon and pubes. Me fave.

[Kapri]

You are probably just in the wrong rental, or you maybe need to assert yourselves a bit more. And of course goes without saying that you need to be a good tenant and build up some credit, landlords like good tenants and will try to hang on to them rather than go into the unknown

 

Can't put pictures up? I have put loads of pictures up, you either use those sticky things which are very strong or you just make good at the end, or you just leave it, everyone needs picture hooks, it doesn't take much. Just ask about the room for daughter?

 

I have been renting my house for 3.5 years and have been inspected twice in all that time, there is no need to put up with three monthly inspections. If you are a good tenant and make your displeasure known I am sure they will back off.

 

I am a fabulous tenant, I do everything expected of a good tenant and they know they are very lucky to have me. I know they are very lucky to have me, no rent increase for 4.5 years (we just signed another year) and I won't put up with any silly nonsense like 3 month inspections and no pictures.

 

Unfortunately that's not the case. You are lucky with your agents / landlord.

our agent is a complete dick. We are great tenants - we pay the rent on time and keep the place clean and tidy but he still said no to putting up picture hooks.

The agent disputed our condition report, the office staff are rude when I phone and the inspections happen 4 times per year - no deviation.

Hence we are breaking our lease and going to a nicer house with a better agent.

We are also going to buy a year from now. My kids would like to be able to put posters up etc.

[fourcorners]

I think there is an element of luck in renting but good tenants should be rewarded. We landed on our feet with our rental and have been there 2 years, just signed for another 6 months. We've had two rent reductions from an initial $495, then $450, now $420 per week. Most of that was because they've sub-divided the block so we've lost most of the garden but we hated caring for the lawn anyway! They have done two inspections in 2 years and have addressed concerns we have had (like the builders hopping the fence to use our hosepipe and water on the building site - we weren't very happy about that!). They haven't been the best at sorting some lesser maintenance issues but then we haven't nagged about these.

 

I'm very glad we haven't bought here, we just won't be here long enough to ride out any potential storms in the local housing market. Plus we have 2 houses in the UK that we put any spare cash into and don't want to spread ourselves too thinly. I agree with Bobj, best to buy and pay off as quickly as possible - any overpayments can make a substantial dent in the interest you pay. We've reduced the amount of monthly interest we owe massively and hence renting here doesn't feel too bad when all balanced together.

[Peach]

Unfortunately that's not the case. You are lucky with your agents / landlord.

 

I would second this notion.... I was a perfect tenant too, but that didn't by us any slack when it came to inspections or any extra attention to our requests. As rents were rising around us the agent took their first opportunity to issue a rent increase at the end of our first 12 months. Thankfully we had bought at that point and were able to show them the middle finger (so to speak).

[Johndoe]

Unfortunately that's not the case. You are lucky with your agents / landlord.

 

 

Agreed.It doesn't matter how assertive you are if you meet an agent who'se just as assertive, you're likely to get nowhere. It isn't neccessarily a case of how assertive you are and more a case of how less assertive the agent is. Vacancy rates and urgency to fill on behalf of the renter play a big part. I know of, (and have helped) literally dozens of folk who could be designated as "assertive" who were warned to bite their tongues, as I knew the agent/s in question and that they had plenty of applicants/and/or too little vacant properties. Renting is subjected to similar market forces that other consumer goods are, and that means fluctuating rents/availability and, for the agents, a choice as to who they can 'sell" to, and that's going to be the ones that they find easy to please, not those who are likely to make waves............I've dealt with plenty of agents in my time, and I'm certainly not a shrinking violet but there was many of them that I wouldn't say boo to.............contrary to those who consider they have got what they want by being assertive, and consequently recommend that to others, I would recommend that any migrant would do well to be sure of what (the market), and who (the agent) that they are dealing with.................and to add.............in most cases of conflict it is not the investor that's the problem, but "jobsworth" agents.............If the investor wanted to be "controlling" he/she woulldn't be using an agent

[Johndoe]

Agreed.It doesn't matter how assertive you are if you meet an agent who'se just as assertive, you're likely to get nowhere. It isn't neccessarily a case of how assertive you are and more a case of how less assertive the agent is. Vacancy rates and urgency to fill on behalf of the renter play a big part. I know of, (and have helped) literally dozens of folk who could be designated as "assertive" who were warned to bite their tongues, as I knew the agent/s in question and that they had plenty of applicants/and/or too little vacant properties. Renting is subjected to similar market forces that other consumer goods are, and that means fluctuating rents/availability and, for the agents, a choice as to who they can 'sell" to, and that's going to be the ones that they find easy to please, not those who are likely to make waves............I've dealt with plenty of agents in my time, and I'm certainly not a shrinking violet but there was many of them that I wouldn't say boo to.............contrary to those who consider they have got what they want by being assertive, and consequently recommend that to others, I would recommend that any migrant would do well to be sure of what (the market), and who (the agent) that they are dealing with.................and to add.............in most cases of conflict it is not the investor that's the problem, but "jobsworth" agents.............If the investor wanted to be "controlling" he/she woulldn't be using an agent

 

I've also known "assertive" migrants eat through their savings. living in a hotel, just because they didn't like (what are in fact), bog standard conditions placed on their rental..................be warned.

[gpo1971]

One rental we moved into was a hole and, despite numerous requests, things just weren’t moving in terms of getting jobs done. So, we did them, fair bit of time, effort and money involved. After we’d finished, the landlord put the house up for sale and we had to endure 2-hour home opens every Sunday for 2 months. He took it off the market after a while as he was asking a ridiculous amount.

We had inspections every 3 months and they were very thorough. We weren’t allowed to put pictures up.

Despite what we’d done for the place, we didn’t even receive our full bond back when we left. The agent shrugged her shoulders when we queried it.

All that said, if I had a house to rent out, I would insist on the quarterly inspections, I’m amazed there are people who don’t. After all, it’s your house, you need to retain some control over what happens there. There are some horror stories out there in terms of tenants.

[noworriesmate]

Inspections aren't just there to check on tenants, we use them to give feedback to the landlords as to the overall condition of the property, wear and tear, and things that may need attention that the tenant may not have noticed. In the UK a property manager or director can be imprisoned if something happens to the tenant due to his negligence in checking things such as electrical or gas outlets/appliances. I personally would not let to a tenant who would not let my staff protect me from consequences such as these.

 

NWM

[VERYSTORMY]

Rupert

 

I agree with the others, I think you have been lucky!

 

We have even had a letter from our agents that came out of the blue to say what amazing tenants we have been. We have been in the property for 5 years and it is in better shape now than when we moved in. Most of the little things that have needed doing I have had done out of my own pocket. I have also had improvements to the house and things carried out. As a result, we are only paying $325 a week compared to the identical house next door through the same agent who pay about $600. But, we still are subject to inspections every 3 months. The inspections are highly invasive and my wife gets stressed out every time. Even though the house is always immaculate - we don't have children and my wife likes a very tidy and clean house. I now arrange a professional cleaner to come in for every inspection even though the cleaners report there isn't a lot for them to do, it helps de-stress my wife a little.

[noworriesmate]

Rupert

 

I agree with the others, I think you have been lucky!

 

We have even had a letter from our agents that came out of the blue to say what amazing tenants we have been. We have been in the property for 5 years and it is in better shape now than when we moved in. Most of the little things that have needed doing I have had done out of my own pocket. I have also had improvements to the house and things carried out. As a result, we are only paying $325 a week compared to the identical house next door through the same agent who pay about $600. But, we still are subject to inspections every 3 months. The inspections are highly invasive and my wife gets stressed out every time. Even though the house is always immaculate - we don't have children and my wife likes a very tidy and clean house. I now arrange a professional cleaner to come in for every inspection even though the cleaners report there isn't a lot for them to do, it helps de-stress my wife a little.

 

I should add from my previous post - I agree the property inspections in Aus are invasive. I can't understand why property managers mention things like dirty dishes or dust or that the lawn needs mowing etc. People are renting the house and as long as the way the tenant is living is not causing any damage to the property then I see observations like this as petty at best. I remember in my early days of owning a letting agency a husband coming in and berating my staff because his wife was in tears due to the fact that my staff had said the kitchen was messy - In this instance I instantly apologised to the man (once I had confirmed his statement was true) and gave him M&S voucher as an apology and sent his wife some flowers. From that time on my staff were instructed not to make note of things that in no way affected the actual property.

 

NWM

[caramac]

Unfortunately that's not the case. You are lucky with your agents / landlord.

our agent is a complete dick. We are great tenants - we pay the rent on time and keep the place clean and tidy but he still said no to putting up picture hooks.

The agent disputed our condition report, the office staff are rude when I phone and the inspections happen 4 times per year - no deviation.

Hence we are breaking our lease and going to a nicer house with a better agent.

We are also going to buy a year from now. My kids would like to be able to put posters up etc.

 

Exactly. We would never treat our tenants like this, or how we were treated in most of our rentals (like a second class citizen, almost as if they were waiting for us to wreck the place). They are paying rent to live in the house as of it's theirs. If there is any damage when they move out we can deduct money from their bond. As a result they have been in the house for over five years and have just renewed for another year. Great for all of us - less hassle and saves us all money.

[Chortlepuss]

I would second this notion.... I was a perfect tenant too, but that didn't by us any slack when it came to inspections or any extra attention to our requests. As rents were rising around us the agent took their first opportunity to issue a rent increase at the end of our first 12 months. Thankfully we had bought at that point and were able to show them the middle finger (so to speak).

 

+ 1

We are perfect tenants and have received variable treatment. Luck of the drawer sometimes but mostly down to supply and demand - A year or so ago in our area of Brisbane crappy houses were overrun with applicants, you got what you could get and were lucky to have a roof over your head. Now it is more of a renter's market - Note that this doesn't always change the attitude of agents who can be slow to modify their behaviour. We have recently gone up in the world to a $600 a week rental which is more than we can afford really but the difference is so noticeable - fewer tenants at this level, a lovely house, decent respectful agents and pleasant reactive landlord. We have always been assertive but it's wrong to imagine that this alone will get you treated like a human being - Most of my rentals, however tatty could have been filled many times over with willing applicants and at the end of the lease when they nick just a little from your bond it's hard to have the energy to pursue it.

[Guest littlesarah]

Sincere apologies I was not pointing that mentally retarded brush at you at all. In fact, a very extreme turn of phrase so I retract it in it's entirety. What I mean is I think a section of the public in Melbourne / Aussie are just basically daft.

 

I agree that the assertion that property is always the best investment is massively over-simplifying the situation. Sure enough, in some situations, some properties turn out to yield a large return - I was very lucky to buy a house in the right part of the right town at the right time, and sold it for 3 times what I'd paid, and even factoring in mortgage interest and associated costs came out with a 'profit'. However, the next move yielded a small 'loss', but given that it was about a home I enjoyed living in and never about making money, it was only ever numbers on a piece of paper. I know a few people who've made good money on property investment, but they bought smart, used minimal debt to fund their investment and identified their rental market and potential yield before they signed on the dotted line; and they do a lot of the maintenance work themselves to keep their costs down - which isn't something I'd fancy taking on myself.

[Incata]

We bought very quickly when we got here and it has helped us feel more settled. I didn't get so stressed when one of the kids decorated the walls (he came and told me he had drawn me a picture and would I like to see it). I like the fact that despite the fact that it needs doing up, we can do it in our own time. I like that it does not matter if I put the kids pictures up all over the walls and I don't have to get permission to put a hook in the wall.

 

However, I have been a military wife and have been in military married quarters for the last 6 years, so having our own place at last is wonderful! Our mortgage is also a lot less than we were paying in rent, and we live in a much nicer area, so it has worked well for us. It's also good for the kids as they are now starting to understand that it is really home and not just somewhere else we will be moving on from.

[Que Sera Sera]

For us it was a no brainier really . Our mortgage payments are less than our rental payments were so alls good. Plus no more rental inspections !