ali Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Been reading the Francis report - as a nurse it saddens me that one of the main critisims has been about patient care (or total lack of it), it's quite horrifying. I've worked on wards that have been short staffed in my time, but the catalogue of things wrong with the Mid Staffordshire trust is horrifying. That concerns weren't listened to and that management were in denial about the problems is beyond belief. The Francis report will have far reaching consequences (as it should), but I think the reforms in the NHS will take some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scrumpy Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Is it time to get rid of the NHS?? I mean with the reduced tax burden would we all be able to aford private health insurance and freedom of choice etc. Im aslo assuming the goverment could increase benefits and make private health insurance compulsary. Just a thought, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted February 7, 2013 Author Share Posted February 7, 2013 I'm still looking through Vol one of the report and something has to happen to improve health care - Whilst I think that targets and standards are essential to measure effectiveness and good practise it seems from the report that staff became so frightend of breeching targets like the 4 hour rule that patients were being discharge too early etc. What saddened me was the repeated reporting of the lack of compassion and basic nursing care - where did it go wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 Lets see if any action is taken against David Nicholson,he was in overall charge of mid staffs as head of WMSHA for 2 yrs of this disgrace,and Staffords C/exec Martin Yeates quit over it with a 400 thou pay off over the scandal,THEN refuses to attend two inquiries,because of post traumatic stress,the slug! Its time legal action was taken with the likes of those in positions of power in public and private sectors,these two to start,then more of the bankers,it will probably end up in a slap of the wrist,as usual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest68546 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Is it time to get rid of the NHS??I mean with the reduced tax burden would we all be able to aford private health insurance and freedom of choice etc. Im aslo assuming the goverment could increase benefits and make private health insurance compulsary. Just a thought, Just like the USA?.....not for me thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie 2 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Just like the USA?.....not for me thanks. It work in Australia until Whitlam stuffed it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Is it time to get rid of the NHS??I mean with the reduced tax burden would we all be able to aford private health insurance and freedom of choice etc. Im aslo assuming the goverment could increase benefits and make private health insurance compulsary. Just a thought, What, a bit like the USA where it costs far more to provide any form of health system - it was shown last year that what their private health care companies spend on advertising and PR, the people in the US unable to afford cover could have free cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 i feel sorry for the nurses, they are completely overworked and understaffed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 i feel sorry for the nurses, they are completely overworked and understaffed They might be Stace but the report says they lacked compassion etc., you can still treat people compassionatley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Yeah i definitely agree. Sorry i just meant nurses in general, not the report in particular. I didnt have a great experience with the nhs recently, most of the nurses were great but just so understaffed and the patients lying waiting a long time to be seen. My gran said when my grandad was in hospital she saw a man lying on a trolley in a hall, he shouted out that he was going to be sick. Nobody was there with him and nobody helped. Think she said she managed to grab something for him to be sick into. I havent read the report yet but i heard a little about it on the news. I remember hearing about some of the care standards in carehomes too, some are shocking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest 47403 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Who's to blame? British doctors and nurses are some of the best in the world, why is this happening in a 1st world country! [h=1]NHS's darkest day: Five more hospitals under investigation for neglect as report blames 'failings at every level' for 1,200 deaths at Stafford Hospital Five more hospitals under investigation for neglect as report blames 'failings at every level' for 1,200 deaths at Stafford Hospital [/h]Five hospital trusts with persistently high death rates are facing investigation tonight after a damning report into Mid-Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust raised fears that basic clinical failings could be putting patients at risk across the NHS. The inspections were announced by David Cameron in the wake of the excoriating report into the catastrophic failings at the trust which led the unnecessary deaths of up to 1,200 patients. The Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt, described the Mid Staffs scandal yesterday as “the most shocking betrayal of NHS founding values in its history”. Full article http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/nhss-darkest-day-five-more-hospitals-under-investigation-for-neglect-as-report-blames-failings-at-every-level-for-1200-deaths-at-stafford-hospital-8482566.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest79615 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 one nurse cannot physically do the job of 3 nurses but is expected and trusted to do just that despite their constant pleas for more staff...the doctors and nurses work hard but frustratingly for them can only do so much with such limited resources...apparently other things are more important in the budget than health, life,respect, care and dignity..the staff on the floor are not to blame for these things, they have these "founding values" and we should be proud of the amazing care givers we have with the best of training, unfortunately the government and those that work a 3 day week for a ridiculous salary doesn't share these values... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kel87 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Yes that's right doctors and nurses ARE failing their patients! It's a bad day when even a nurse admits that!... Who is to blame?? The government!... yet again they are using everyday hardworking people to take the blame for their own shortcomings - bringing in legislation/waiting time targets that are impossible to meet, given the ever decreasing staffing levels/budgets and ever increasing demands on the health service. The goverment continue to give false promises to the public in hope of gaining votes, and who gets the stick for it when an adequate service CANNOT be delivered in such a sub-standard environment?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 I've merged the 3 posts above mine here with the thread on the same subject that was posted yesterday in UK news and chat. Cheers snifter :mask: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramac Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 one nurse cannot physically do the job of 3 nurses but is expected and trusted to do just that despite their constant pleas for more staff...the doctors and nurses work hard but frustratingly for them can only do so much with such limited resources...apparently other things are more important in the budget than health, life,respect, care and dignity..the staff on the floor are not to blame for these things, they have these "founding values" and we should be proud of the amazing care givers we have with the best of training, unfortunately the government and those that work a 3 day week for a ridiculous salary doesn't share these values... This is exactly the reason I would NEVER go back into nursing. Towards the end I never felt I could do the job I'd been trained for. When working on the nurse bank I was often sent to wards where I would be the only trained member of staff with a ward of 28 patients, most of whom had been operated on that day. However hard we tried there was no way we could give the care the patients deserved and needed and it was utterly demoralising, especially when there was no support from the hospital management. I did briefly think about going back last year, but too many of my friends warned me not to. Most of them are highly qualified and skilled in their fields, but because the management can basically do what they like, they have found themselves having their job descriptions changed under 'restructuring', which generally means more, or completely different work for worse pay and conditions. No wonder morale is low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris955 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 I dont understand why this one hospital was so bad, why so many issues at one place ? For those asking if it is time to get rid of the NHS, absolutely no way. When my son recently broke his arm the care he received at the local hospital was absolutely fabulous, the nurses and doctors were communicative, very friendly and helpful and nothing was too much trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest79615 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 and thats sad, the nhs is losing all the good doctors and nurses who want to do provide an efficient service..I'm on night shift tonight on an acute admissions ward with 22 patients, i am the only qualified nurse on and i have 2 nursing assistants with me who are from an agency and don't know the patients..i also have a student nurse who i wont get to spend any time with and this under staffing is not fair on those in training either...although i do still love my job and try my best..i don't know how long that feeling will last! Also i got yet another email from management today to remind us all that paperwork is not being completed and uploaded within 24hrs (despite this paperwork being a duplicate of an electronic record already available) and this must take priority for the audit in march..what a joke! This is exactly the reason I would NEVER go back into nursing. Towards the end I never felt I could do the job I'd been trained for. When working on the nurse bank I was often sent to wards where I would be the only trained member of staff with a ward of 28 patients, most of whom had been operated on that day. However hard we tried there was no way we could give the care the patients deserved and needed and it was utterly demoralising, especially when there was no support from the hospital management. I did briefly think about going back last year, but too many of my friends warned me not to. Most of them are highly qualified and skilled in their fields, but because the management can basically do what they like, they have found themselves having their job descriptions changed under 'restructuring', which generally means more, or completely different work for worse pay and conditions. No wonder morale is low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kel87 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Might be slightly off topic but I know exactly how it feels to be overworked and understaffed when it's peoples lives that depend on you! I have literally came home from work in tears feeling that I let my patients down, not because I didn't work hard enough but because I worked to the best I could with the limited staff and resources I could and yet that still wasn't good enough. I'm fully aware not all nurses have the same level of dedication but I find it very hard to believe that all nurses in that hospital lacked compassion. Lets see how the government and general public like the UK with no NHS, it isn't perfect but we are god damn lucky to have it and I for one am very proud to be an NHS nurse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest79615 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 yeah i am proud to be an NHS nurse too, and sometimes i hear myself and think 'oh that sounded so uncaring'...but i DO care and i DO have compassion but i get no time with patients, not even to take someones hand, to have a chat or sit and have a cup of tea with them..or reassure a relative...i have to watch suffering and am forced to deal with it almost impatiently..i hate that as thats not me, i long for more staff and less focus on paperwork..i keep working as i care so much...the staff i work with are caring and compassionate and do their best in impossible circumstances..NHS nurses (and doctors) are on the whole.. amazing! Might be slightly off topic but I know exactly how it feels to be overworked and understaffed when it's peoples lives that depend on you!I have literally came home from work in tears feeling that I let my patients down, not because I didn't work hard enough but because I worked to the best I could with the limited staff and resources I could and yet that still wasn't good enough. I'm fully aware not all nurses have the same level of dedication but I find it very hard to believe that all nurses in that hospital lacked compassion. Lets see how the government and general public like the UK with no NHS, it isn't perfect but we are god damn lucky to have it and I for one am very proud to be an NHS nurse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 You guys have my full respect, the majority are very caring and great at their job. When i was in hosp for my op and then various appointments i was mostly happy with the nurses care. Only one or two i was disapointed with. Its a shame thats the ones you end up remembering though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris955 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 You guys have my full respect, the majority are very caring and great at their job. When i was in hosp for my op and then various appointments i was mostly happy with the nurses care. Only one or two i was disapointed with. Its a shame thats the ones you end up remembering though. I tend to remember the good ones as most were, the not so good are just human like the rest of us and are liable to have bad days just like the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 I do remember the good ones too though, as i said - most of them were lovely and good banter too. I think i just remember the bad experience more because one of the nurses was determined that i was going home and said i should phone dave to pick me up now. I had only just been given my sandwich and water after fasting all day. I got up and started getting ready and ended up being violently sick and dizzy. One of the other nurses told me to go back into bed and lie down till i was better. Maybe the other nurse just wanted to clean my bed as that ward was apparently closing - was just for daytime surgery. Anybody whos staying overnight gets moved to another ward. Would still of been nice for ME to make the decision wether i was feeling well enough to go home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caramac Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Might be slightly off topic but I know exactly how it feels to be overworked and understaffed when it's peoples lives that depend on you!I have literally came home from work in tears feeling that I let my patients down, not because I didn't work hard enough but because I worked to the best I could with the limited staff and resources I could and yet that still wasn't good enough. I'm fully aware not all nurses have the same level of dedication but I find it very hard to believe that all nurses in that hospital lacked compassion. Lets see how the government and general public like the UK with no NHS, it isn't perfect but we are god damn lucky to have it and I for one am very proud to be an NHS nurse. yeah i am proud to be an NHS nurse too, and sometimes i hear myself and think 'oh that sounded so uncaring'...but i DO care and i DO have compassion but i get no time with patients, not even to take someones hand, to have a chat or sit and have a cup of tea with them..or reassure a relative...i have to watch suffering and am forced to deal with it almost impatiently..i hate that as thats not me, i long for more staff and less focus on paperwork..i keep working as i care so much...the staff i work with are caring and compassionate and do their best in impossible circumstances..NHS nurses (and doctors) are on the whole.. amazing! I always was too, but you're both right. It's the lack of time and lack of staff which wears you down and I got to the point where I felt that, if I couldn't give the care I wanted to give there was no point being there. There was also a degree of self preservation - it was only a matter of time before something went wrong, and that was frightening. I can't believe that the vast majority of people go into nursing without the desire to do good for people (it's certainly not salary driven!) and when the service is properly resourced, it's a pleasure to go to work. My favourite job was back in the early 90's on a new day surgery unit. It was the new NHS 'baby', so very well funded. We had 8 trained nurses and 2 HCAs. It was completely multidisciplinary and we had a lot of autonomy in our work. It was easy to carry out our work to a very high level and I loved it. A very different story from some of the long stay care wards... I agree. I do believe that most people working in the NHS are caring and compassionate. It's just a shame that they aren't shown the same when they're working in very difficult circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest51810 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 You guys get all the grief while the managers sit in their big offices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest79615 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 wow, 8 trained nurses, the 90s sounds good! you think it would get better as time went on not worse! its sad and such a disappointment when it has the potential to be brilliant... I always was too, but you're both right. It's the lack of time and lack of staff which wears you down and I got to the point where I felt that, if I couldn't give the care I wanted to give there was no point being there. There was also a degree of self preservation - it was only a matter of time before something went wrong, and that was frightening. I can't believe that the vast majority of people go into nursing without the desire to do good for people (it's certainly not salary driven!) and when the service is properly resourced, it's a pleasure to go to work. My favourite job was back in the early 90's on a new day surgery unit. It was the new NHS 'baby', so very well funded. We had 8 trained nurses and 2 HCAs. It was completely multidisciplinary and we had a lot of autonomy in our work. It was easy to carry out our work to a very high level and I loved it. A very different story from some of the long stay care wards... I agree. I do believe that most people working in the NHS are caring and compassionate. It's just a shame that they aren't shown the same when they're working in very difficult circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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