Can I get my four year old into school a year early?

[gwolst77]

Hi

 

My family have just relocated to Melbourne at the end of November last year. My daughter is four years old and had been attending full time education back in the UK since September.

She is five in July so misses the April 30th cut-off, so officially can't start school till Feb 2014.

 

Somebody has mentioned that if your child was in full time education you can push for them to start school early. Does anybody know if this is the case, and how do you go about it?

My daughter loved school and was excelling at everything they were teaching despite her being one of the youngest in her class.

 

My visa is a 457 but we will be applying for PR as soon as my 6 months probation at work is completed early March

[Alaska]

In Queensland it is possible if they have started in the UK and in fact seems to be the only possibility for early entry but I can't answer for Victoria. Here you have to apply and provide evidence. Hope someone comes along who can help you more.

[JoandJon]

I'd give the local school principal a call and see what your options are. They might be able to help with some advice.

 

Sorry i can't be more helpful - fingers crossed you get some more experienced people to help!

[Guest Bazinga]

Talk to your local principl and education dept. Personally I'd keep her back and put her in with the right age group. Just find an excellent preschool program for her.

[LKC]

I think that I would keep her back and put her with the right age group too. She had only been at school for a couple of months, so I would think that a good pre-school would be just as enjoyable for her. Had she been at school for longer, or had you been on the 457 and intending to return to the uk in a couple of years, then maybe. My daughter is at the younger end of the cohort, and although she is better than fine academically, I do stress a bit about what it is going to be like later on when she is a teen, with friends who are anything up to a year and four months older than she is, and off to uni at 17.

[northshorepom]

Hi

 

My family have just relocated to Melbourne at the end of November last year. My daughter is four years old and had been attending full time education back in the UK since September.

She is five in July so misses the April 30th cut-off, so officially can't start school till Feb 2014.

 

Somebody has mentioned that if your child was in full time education you can push for them to start school early. Does anybody know if this is the case, and how do you go about it?

My daughter loved school and was excelling at everything they were teaching despite her being one of the youngest in her class.

 

My visa is a 457 but we will be applying for PR as soon as my 6 months probation at work is completed early March

 

In NSW I know the cut-off is exactly that - no exceptions. But the cut-off in NSW is later, July 31. I don't know about Victoria, you'll have to ask

 

Good luck. I know this can be really difficult for some. We came over when my son was 4 and had been at school in the UK for quite a while. Fortunately for us he was (just!) inside the cut off so we could start him straight away in the first year of school here. All kids are different and I know for our son, keeping him back would have been totally the wrong thing to do

 

I think that I would keep her back and put her with the right age group too. She had only been at school for a couple of months, so I would think that a good pre-school would be just as enjoyable for her. Had she been at school for longer, or had you been on the 457 and intending to return to the uk in a couple of years, then maybe. My daughter is at the younger end of the cohort, and although she is better than fine academically, I do stress a bit about what it is going to be like later on when she is a teen, with friends who are anything up to a year and four months older than she is, and off to uni at 17.

 

Honestly, I wouldn't stress about that too much. I think the age difference has much more of an impact in the youngest years when kids who are under 5 are generally much less developed than their classmates who may be already 6. As they get older it makes less of a difference, when it comes to teenage years there is so much variation in when puberty hits and how mature individual kids are that it's a total lottery anyway. I know lots of people get stressed about the age difference when kids hit teenage years but speaking as one of the few with direct experience (I was moved up a year at 9 and was young for my school year anyway, so most of my school mates in secondary school were 18 months older than me; I went to sixth form at just turned 15, and Uni at just turned 17) it was a total non-issue. You might need to prepare yourself to loosen some apron strings earlier than you otherwise would, eg my parents realistically had to let me go down the pub at 16 as that's where my 17 year old mates socialised, but apart from that I don't think it's a big deal

[gwolst77]

In NSW I know the cut-off is exactly that - no exceptions. But the cut-off in NSW is later, July 31. I don't know about Victoria, you'll have to ask

 

If we were in NSW she would be starting school this year not next, thanks for letting me know that little nugget of information northshorepom. It will make my case easier to argue if they try "She is not ready for school at her age argument"

 

I know getting my daughter into school this year is the right thing for her, even if she is going to be one of the youngest in her year. Both physically and mentally she has always been ahead of the curve kids her actual age (people have often assumed she is at least a year older than she actually is). Also once the joys of summer is over and the weather starts getting poorer, it is going to be difficult keeping her occupied in the house. You are limited to what you can do when there is only one parent, who also has to look after a one year old boy (whilst I am out at work).

[Quoll]

I know that states do honour other states school starters but I don't think you will have much luck with international starters. Perhaps you should whizz up to Albury and enrol her in a NSW school for a term then move back down to Melbourne (tongue in cheek there, it's what loads of ACT parents do, enrol their kids in Queanbeyan for a term then move them over). Alternatively you could get her psychometrically assessed and put a case or gifted and talented early entry combined with social and emotional readiness.

 

failing that, you could just accept that it's a foreign country with its own rules and regulations and your daughter just fits in with the other millions of kids of her age and meanwhile you continue to do the fabulous job of parenting you have always done, along with long day care if necessary and lots of extracurricular input. Early entry isn't necessarily a great idea but you might also be able to put a case if you are planning on returning to UK at the end of your temporary visa and the need for her to be in step with her UK age peers.

 

edited to say, I found this on the Vic Ed site - I don't fancy your chances much

 

Early age entry must be:

 

 

requested in writing to the regional director by parent/guardians

approved in writing by the regional director

approved by the principal, where students are transferring from an interstate school to a Victorian government school, and on receipt of evidence (to their satisfaction) of previous enrolment and full time school attendance.

Note: The regional director will only grant early entry in exceptional circumstances when there are strong grounds for believing long-term educational disadvantage would otherwise occur.

 

 

On admission schools consider the following in determining a student’s school readiness:

 

 

entry assessment from kindergarten;

informal observations to assess development, literacy and numeracy and academic and social needs, see: School Entry Assessment Kit (Curriculum Press) in Other resources.

[Peach]

I am often amazed at the high percentage of gifted children that British emigrants produce.

[Sammy1]

We are in WA. My son was born just before the cut off date, which has meant he is and always has been the very youngest in his year and all his classes.

 

I did actually ask for him to stay back a year due to medical issues and speech difficulties from being on life support for weeks, but they said no due to his height ( very tall) and that he was a bright boy. If we had lived in another state he would be in a lower year than he is now.

 

On reflection, even though I worry because most of the other children in his year are a year older than him, he has done very well. Whilst emotionally he is younger, his academic work puts him right in the middle to upper of the class. He is in the talented and gifted arts program and that's where he shines. Very happy with that- because he is happy and loves school and that is all that matters.

 

I am also a teacher, so I have to really try and put my natural parenting worries away sometimes and think of it in logical teaching terms. We all love our kids and want the best of course, but the schools here are good and do know their 'stuff'.

 

Your best option is to contact the Principal of the school and have a chat about your concerns. Do go in with lots of notes that you can refer to and that have valid facts that can back up your wishes. However, there is a very strong tendency not to put up or hold back students in Australia.You are likely to be quoted current research that backs this up when you make your request - so be prepared.

 

There will definitely be other students the same age as your child in the class.

 

Also, do consider that many schools have split classes anyway. For example the school I teach in has pre-primary/year1 together and years 2/3,4/5,6/7 etc throughout the school. So you may well find that your daughter is with older or younger children throughout primary school anyway.

 

Don't stress, she will be fine ( and so will you).

[northshorepom]

I am often amazed at the high percentage of gifted children that British emigrants produce.

 

Don't be a div, that isn't the issue here and you're just using the thread as a vehicle for your prejudices.

 

Had the OP's daughter not been at school in the UK, then I reckon it would be more a case of recommending they just put her with her age cohort and accept that it's a different system. But I think if a kid's already started school then it's a different matter - first few weeks of school is about learning how to learn and about school routines more than anything else. Going back from that to a much less formal pre-school environment, and then starting again re-learning routines a year later, I reckon is a totally fair and legitimate thing to be concerned about.

 

I reckon they'll have to live with it anyway fwiw- but it's worth a try (for them)

[Guest Bazinga]

My sister in law was gifted and got put in the year older than her. I'm not going into details here but her parents deeply regret it, mainly because of how it was for her as a teen.

 

Guess you'll just have to see what the Victorians say.

[starlight7]

Some of the pre schools in Victoria teach reading and writing skills-not officially but certainly unofficially, maybe you could put her in one of these so that she will be with her peer group? Also, there are a few private schools which have early learning centres- off hand I could think of Tintern, MLC, Trinity but I know there are others. I think you might find it hard to get a government school to accept her.A year isn't long in the scheme of things- maybe mid term entrance would be good for her?

[Peach]

Don't be a div, that isn't the issue here and you're just using the thread as a vehicle for your prejudices.

 

At the risk of taking the bait - what prejudices have you judged that I have? You know nothing of my personal circumstances.

[northshorepom]

At the risk of taking the bait - what prejudices have you judged that I have? You know nothing of my personal circumstances.

 

You expanded a very specific issue the OP has with their daughter already having started school and probably having to go back - and in this specific case I think going to pre-school after having been at school very much is going back, it's not just a simple question of when to start your child - into a general point about how many people think their kids are gifted. Which was obviously aimed at the OP, otherwise why make it? If that's not displaying prejudices YOU have on the matter, I don't know what is.

 

And it's more than a bit rich you getting all huffy about internet randoms judging you when they know nothing about you, when that is *precisely* what you did to the OP.

[Peach]

Actually, I made no direct reference to the OP. Merely I shared my observation that British emigrants to Australia often feel that little Johnny or Jane are gifted.. I'm not huffy

[Sammy1]

Actually, I made no direct reference to the OP. Merely I shared my observation that British emigrants to Australia often feel that little Johnny or Jane are gifted.. I'm not huffy

 

To be honest I read it exactly the same way as northshorepom, your comment did come over as quite sarky.

 

As parents we all think our children have special qualities - that's natural.It is also understandable for a new immigrant to be worried about their child's happiness.

 

I think the main issue is that Brits are concerned that after having started formal schooling in the UK, they then find that their younger children may have to go back to a less formal pre - school setting and thus are worried that the child's education or emotional well-being will suffer.

 

Generally teachers in these early child hood settings pick up within the first four weeks which children need extending ( yes, even in a pre-primary ) and which need extra help in a variety of areas whether that is fine motor skills or speech etc etc. There is a huge range of development at this age for sure and programmes that are play based in nature are still especially tailored to cater for children that may be early readers or shown as gifted in other areas.

[northernbird]

I would not be taking my child out of their age cohort, I have seen the effects this has when you get to years 11 and 12.

[northshorepom]

I would not be taking my child out of their age cohort, I have seen the effects this has when you get to years 11 and 12.

 

What are they? Straight question, having done it myself and not had a problem at all - quite the reverse tbh, certainly from my PoV. I'm genuinely curious as to the issues people have at teenage years when this is done

[Sammy1]

I went to secondary school in the UK at the usual age, but then took my exams two years early.I stayed in my year level, but went to different classes for certain subjects. I have seen this done in some schools in Australia and it works well.

For those that are worried about their children dropping back a year, I feel this is only really an issue if you are planning to go back to the UK, simply because in Australia they will be with children of similar, or the same age. In the grand scheme of things one year will not make a great difference.Like I said earlier my youngest son is is the very youngest in his year ( born just before the cut off date) and it did worry me and I also realise that years down the track if/when he goes to uni he will not even be 18.....

 

The Principal of the school has the final say, however, if a parent pushes hard enough they do have a chance of moving their child up a year. I just question if it is really worth it.

[northshorepom]

I agree that in general it's not worth it. And I don't think rules should be routinely bent/broken just because of pushy parents, that's not where I'm coming from

 

I think there is a specific issue when it comes to starting ages. Kids in the UK go to school earlier, generally 6-12 months depending on where their birthday lies, sometimes up to 18 months in extreme cases. I'm not saying that's the way it should be, seen different education systems where kids start early and late and I don't think there's any correlation between that and them being "good". But it's just a fact

 

If your child has started formal school in the UK then I think it's quite difficult to accept sending them back to pre-school and then to go through the "first weeks at school" rigmarole again a year down the track. If you're unlucky with ages and the time you migrate though, you might just have to suck it up. I have quite a bit of sympathy for the OP because we were almost in a similar position with our son. It's only because we live in NSW that we didn't have to do what they probably will have to, in most states he would have been too young to go to school in Jan 2012 despite having started in a school environment in England over a year previously. This has got nothing to do with us thinking he's special, nor the OP likewise - it's just an unfortunate circumstance of timing.

 

I'm still genuinely interested in the perceived (or observed) issues teenagers who've been moved up might have. Also in what any issue in going to Uni before 18 is. Is this a problem? Again, straight question - it wasn't a problem for me

[gwolst77]

I am often amazed at the high percentage of gifted children that British emigrants produce.

 

Yep I totally agree with you, probably the reason why they had an empire that spanned the globe, started the industrial revolution and invented the very items you used to post your sarky remarks with!

 

I did not say my daughter was gifted, but if you have come to that conclusion by the mere fact that I stated "Both physically and mentally she has always been ahead of the curve kids her actual age" then thank you for the compliment.

 

For all the others that posted comments regarding my question a big thank you (especially northshorepom)

 

At the end of the day I am in a foreign country and if the system is different then so be it (we are no special case). However if there is a chance we can get her into school at some point this year that would be our preferred option for the following reasons...

 

A. We both think she should be in (and can handle) full time education, she was excelling in a school environment in the UK (with kids older than her) so why not here?

 

B. She wants to go to school and is already asking when she can go back

 

C. We have already noticed a change in her behaviour at home because she does not have the routine school life brings (both physically and mentally).

 

There are other posts in the thread that mention that she should wait another year and stick with her peer group. IMO she is with her correct peer group.

 

Whilst I do see the logic in this point if she was 6 - 9 months from the cut off point, she is only approx 70 days from the cut-off point and has already completed 3 months of full time education (and has been in full time nursery / pre -school from the age of 13 months). She is use to having full days of activities with other children and is missing the interaction, also it would be great way for her to make new friends (even though see can do this at Kindie/playgroups if need be).

Remember if we were in NSW I would not even be posting this thread, as her birthday would be within the cut-off date (gifted child or not).

 

:wink:

[Sammy1]

Yep I totally agree with you, probably the reason why they had an empire that spanned the globe, started the industrial revolution and invented the very items you used to post your sarky remarks with!

 

I did not say my daughter was gifted, but if you have come to that conclusion by the mere fact that I stated "Both physically and mentally she has always been ahead of the curve kids her actual age" then thank you for the compliment.

 

For all the others that posted comments regarding my question a big thank you (especially northshorepom)

 

At the end of the day I am in a foreign country and if the system is different then so be it (we are no special case). However if there is a chance we can get her into school at some point this year that would be our preferred option for the following reasons...

 

A. We both think she should be in (and can handle) full time education, she was excelling in a school environment in the UK (with kids older than her) so why not here?

 

B. She wants to go to school and is already asking when she can go back

 

C. We have already noticed a change in her behaviour at home because she does not have the routine school life brings (both physically and mentally).

 

There are other posts in the thread that mention that she should wait another year and stick with her peer group. IMO she is with her correct peer group.

 

Whilst I do see the logic in this point if she was 6 - 9 months from the cut off point, she is only approx 70 days from the cut-off point and has already completed 3 months of full time education (and has been in full time nursery / pre -school from the age of 13 months). She is use to having full days of activities with other children and is missing the interaction, also it would be great way for her to make new friends (even though see can do this at Kindie/playgroups if need be).

Remember if we were in NSW I would not even be posting this thread, as her birthday would be within the cut-off date (gifted child or not).

 

:wink:

 

When you make contact with the Principal, arrange an interview and take some well prepared notes to back up your reasons for your daughter going into the next year ( they really will help). From experience, if a parent comes well prepared with facts and a valid argument, then they will have more chance of making a change.Whilst I was unable to get my son into a younger year level, I did get him into the class I wanted by doing this.

 

If you have the time, do some research to add to your argument. I think you may have a fight on your hands to get the result that you want, but if you can make a calm well informed case then the odds are better.

[Quoll]

The problem is that, yes, she is your daughter and, yes of course you want the best for her but lines are drawn in the sand for a reason - it'd be a dogs breakfast if all parents of kids within the 70 day period all decided that their little sweetie was ready for school, wanted to go to school and would be bored with a part time school/home stimulation environment etc etc. I have given you a link to the early entry policy statement. Go through the process, get the assessments done then make your case to the decision makers -easy!

 

i do agree with those who have said that whilst being younger isn't so much of an issue in primary school it often does become a big issue in the older teen years when the social cohort can and does start doing things that the youngster cannot and should not (but often does) do.

[Alaska]

It's a short term v long term issue really.

 

In the short term, in my experience, I would argue that she would be better off going to the year ahead. She has started school in the UK and I assume completed pre-school too. I have found Prep here in my son's school in Queensland to be pretty similar to pre-school in the UK in terms of what they are doing academically. I am not saying it's better or worse but academically has been much lower (but other things have been excellent like practical learning). My son did several months in Reception in the UK and even Prep was a step back in maths and English skills (like I say I am not saying if that's a bad thing but just different) so I would've been reluctant for him to go back to Kindy if he had missed the cut off here.

 

The other issues are the fact it's a 457 so not guaranteed to be staying, and also a lot of people do end up going back anyway.

 

Longer term though I agree with the others and would prefer a child to be with their peers in high school and to be able to remain "a child" just that bit longer.