have you left Oz because of your job?

[Missus B]

I discussed some of the differences in my job on the ''Am I Crazy?'' thread but I'll point out a few more factors in my decision to go home. 75% of my workplace have less than 2 years experience and are fresh out of college, therefore 75% of Paramedic graduates have no life experience. I have 13 years on the road experience. I know people over here who have double that. These young graduates, have swallowed several medical books and regurgitate them regularly. They think that there is always something more to the simplest of jobs. They go to the far end of a fart, with their hospital handovers, even for a sore toe. On the other end of the scale, they miss clues and under diagnose. In my book, 90% of the time, if it walks like a Duck, talks like a Duck, it's a Duck. But the other 10% of the time, I draw upon previous experiences and my gut tells me, I am not getting the full picture and I'm normally right. These young workers see the likes of me as a Veteran, with ancient knowledge that belongs in the 90's. But this is the knowledge that will stop them killing a patient and getting their ass getting the sack someday

 

With this lack of knowledge and inexperience, also comes a sense of arrogance and playing God. They are voyeuristic without respect, when it comes to critically ill patients or a patient in cardiac arrest. They want to have a good look, with no intent on learning and just end up getting in the way with their morbid curiosity. I have already been nudged out of the way by a rookie, whilst I was trying to perform CPR. Needless to say, I chewed her up and spat her out, after the job was over. They do not consider patient care and dignity to be a priority. A lot of them are chasing the glory status and don't give a crap how they make a patient feel in their final moments.

 

It is easy to shine here. But you shine for doing the things you are trained to do because ''most wouldn't remember to do that''. You get praised for having common sense and doing your job like you should. But experience and knowledge is not valued here. Some of the people I work with, know it all already and think their education stopped, when they got their degree. This is a recipe for disaster and an open door to arbitration and compensation claims.

 

So yes, I am returning to the UK, mainly because of my job.

[Rugby Lad]

I discussed some of the differences in my job on the ''Am I Crazy?'' thread but I'll point out a few more factors in my decision to go home. 75% of my workplace have less than 2 years experience and are fresh out of college, therefore 75% of Paramedic graduates have no life experience. I have 13 years on the road experience. I know people over here who have double that. These young graduates, have swallowed several medical books and regurgitate them regularly. They think that there is always something more to the simplest of jobs. They go to the far end of a fart, with their hospital handovers, even for a sore toe. On the other end of the scale, they miss clues and under diagnose. In my book, 90% of the time, if it walks like a Duck, talks like a Duck, it's a Duck. But the other 10% of the time, I draw upon previous experiences and my gut tells me, I am not getting the full picture and I'm normally right. These young workers see the likes of me as a Veteran, with ancient knowledge that belongs in the 90's. But this is the knowledge that will stop them killing a patient and getting their ass getting the sack someday

 

With this lack of knowledge and inexperience, also comes a sense of arrogance and playing God. They are voyeuristic without respect, when it comes to critically ill patients or a patient in cardiac arrest. They want to have a good look, with no intent on learning and just end up getting in the way with their morbid curiosity. I have already been nudged out of the way by a rookie, whilst I was trying to perform CPR. Needless to say, I chewed her up and spat her out, after the job was over. They do not consider patient care and dignity to be a priority. A lot of them are chasing the glory status and don't give a crap how they make a patient feel in their final moments.

 

It is easy to shine here. But you shine for doing the things you are trained to do because ''most wouldn't remember to do that''. You get praised for having common sense and doing your job like you should. But experience and knowledge is not valued here. Some of the people I work with, know it all already and think their education stopped, when they got their degree. This is a recipe for disaster and an open door to arbitration and compensation claims.

 

So yes, I am returning to the UK, mainly because of my job.

 

Really interesting you say that Missus B.

 

As you may know I'm a paramedic with Ambulance Service of New South Wales and we're now the only Ambulance Service in Australia to take non-graduates (the so-called VET route). What you say so sums up the internal discussion within the service of grads v non-grads - we take both, on seperate entry streams.

 

I've only been in just over a year, though worked for 2 and a half months in South Africa (did the Ronin Course, you may have heard of it, as my resettlement from the British Army) and before that was an Infantry Officer for 10 years so I like to think I've got a bit of life experience behind me.

 

Had nothing to do directly with Queensland Ambulance but last month I did a month down in Sydney doing my Level 2 Course. At the school every course was being run so Level 2, P1 (qualified paramedic, after 3 years on road if you go through VET route), ICP, Special Ops, Ambulance Management and an Induction Course. Everyone got on really well except the induction course, because this was not a normal induction course but for those who'd transferred from other services. One was from South Australia, one from the RAN, two from Essex (UK) but the rest were all from Queensland. I've never met such arrogant tossers, wouldn't talk to us, even acknowledge us when we said hello. We did a class with them, I went over to introduce myself, held out my hand - and it was left hanging there!!!!! I've known people who've hated me to the point where they've been trying to actively kill me; but they've had the common bloody decency to shake my hand when I've offered it!!! So I wasn't at all impressed, to say the least. Ignorant ****wits, the lot of them.

 

Completely agree with your assessment of graduates.

 

I've got to say I enjoy working for Ambulance NSW but management above station level is abysmal. I don't know if this is an Australian thing, an ambulance service thing (we have the big problem that management is drawn from a tiny pool - those who are too sh1t to work on road but don't want to leave) worldwide, or even a civilian thing (this is my first proper job after the Army) so won't speculate.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Rugby Lad

[Wellers and Whitehead]

I discussed some of the differences in my job on the ''Am I Crazy?'' thread but I'll point out a few more factors in my decision to go home. 75% of my workplace have less than 2 years experience and are fresh out of college, therefore 75% of Paramedic graduates have no life experience. I have 13 years on the road experience. I know people over here who have double that. These young graduates, have swallowed several medical books and regurgitate them regularly. They think that there is always something more to the simplest of jobs. They go to the far end of a fart, with their hospital handovers, even for a sore toe. On the other end of the scale, they miss clues and under diagnose. In my book, 90% of the time, if it walks like a Duck, talks like a Duck, it's a Duck. But the other 10% of the time, I draw upon previous experiences and my gut tells me, I am not getting the full picture and I'm normally right. These young workers see the likes of me as a Veteran, with ancient knowledge that belongs in the 90's. But this is the knowledge that will stop them killing a patient and getting their ass getting the sack someday

 

With this lack of knowledge and inexperience, also comes a sense of arrogance and playing God. They are voyeuristic without respect, when it comes to critically ill patients or a patient in cardiac arrest. They want to have a good look, with no intent on learning and just end up getting in the way with their morbid curiosity. I have already been nudged out of the way by a rookie, whilst I was trying to perform CPR. Needless to say, I chewed her up and spat her out, after the job was over. They do not consider patient care and dignity to be a priority. A lot of them are chasing the glory status and don't give a crap how they make a patient feel in their final moments.

 

It is easy to shine here. But you shine for doing the things you are trained to do because ''most wouldn't remember to do that''. You get praised for having common sense and doing your job like you should. But experience and knowledge is not valued here. Some of the people I work with, know it all already and think their education stopped, when they got their degree. This is a recipe for disaster and an open door to arbitration and compensation claims.

 

So yes, I am returning to the UK, mainly because of my job.

no

Ha, I did laugh as i'm always on my phone messaging, so never write much, but what you said about regurgitating info from a book is so true, in my experience not using theory and lack of common sense to solve problems, just following the book. I get sooooooo frustrated with the lack of common sense, especially in dealing with child protection, not a good combo. I was actually shocked and appalled that child protection workers aren't always qualified social workers!!? How can you make life changing decisions for people with no or little accredited training!?? Again, therefore missing essential clues, indications of abuse etc. ooh don't get me going! It would appear child protection is not a priority in Oz! With shocking and appalling practices! Ooh my God, I need to breath ;-) ha!

 

the duck thing made me laugh, an Aussie colleague used to say that all the time!

 

I thought Oz would be a great place to live and raise a family, but having worked in Oz and the experiences I have had, the lack of focus on child protection and experience by those working in that field does impact on the average family also.work is not child focused and is pro parent (abusive).

I'll stop...

 

I have read your posts pre and during Oz. shame your not in Sydney, could have caught up! :-)

 

PS..I know I went off on one..I get so frustrated! :-)

Edited December 7, 2012 by Wellers and Whitehead

[Missus B]

Really interesting you say that Missus B.

 

As you may know I'm a paramedic with Ambulance Service of New South Wales and we're now the only Ambulance Service in Australia to take non-graduates (the so-called VET route). What you say so sums up the internal discussion within the service of grads v non-grads - we take both, on seperate entry streams.

 

I've only been in just over a year, though worked for 2 and a half months in South Africa (did the Ronin Course, you may have heard of it, as my resettlement from the British Army) and before that was an Infantry Officer for 10 years so I like to think I've got a bit of life experience behind me.

 

Had nothing to do directly with Queensland Ambulance but last month I did a month down in Sydney doing my Level 2 Course. At the school every course was being run so Level 2, P1 (qualified paramedic, after 3 years on road if you go through VET route), ICP, Special Ops, Ambulance Management and an Induction Course. Everyone got on really well except the induction course, because this was not a normal induction course but for those who'd transferred from other services. One was from South Australia, one from the RAN, two from Essex (UK) but the rest were all from Queensland. I've never met such arrogant tossers, wouldn't talk to us, even acknowledge us when we said hello. We did a class with them, I went over to introduce myself, held out my hand - and it was left hanging there!!!!! I've known people who've hated me to the point where they've been trying to actively kill me; but they've had the common bloody decency to shake my hand when I've offered it!!! So I wasn't at all impressed, to say the least. Ignorant ****wits, the lot of them.

 

Completely agree with your assessment of graduates.

 

I've got to say I enjoy working for Ambulance NSW but management above station level is abysmal. I don't know if this is an Australian thing, an ambulance service thing (we have the big problem that management is drawn from a tiny pool - those who are too sh1t to work on road but don't want to leave) worldwide, or even a civilian thing (this is my first proper job after the Army) so won't speculate.

 

This is a Universal problem in my opinion. My ex boss in England is morbidly obese, always has been. Eventually relatives started to complain that he wasn't efficient on the job because of his size related shortness of breath. He came to treat their loved ones and they were concerned he was gonna drop to the ground. So the hierarchy took him off the road and placed him in a management position, without really testing his suitability for the role. He gets no respect, he lacks authority an initiative and he is still obese. He deals with complaints on a local level and he is essentially the face of the ambulance service, at 37 stone.

 

I see a lot of this going on in the training schools as well. Guys go into wind down mode, gearing up for retirement. They go and do a teaching course and then work in training. It is definitely a case of ''Those who can't teach do''. No wonder young students are coming out of the training schools, full of a load of gobshite.

 

Most Paramedics are narcissistic. It is this very trait that gets us into the job in the first place. For most Para's, this disappears with experience, failures, and learning to work as a team. But for some, it never goes away. The ego's get bigger and they never really learn anything. I have seen a lot of ''Chest puffing'' in the QLD ambulance service. More Alpha males than I care for. So I would agree with your statement about their arrogance. Not all....but certainly most.

[Missus B]

no

Ha, I did laugh as i'm always on my phone messaging, so never write much, but what you said about regurgitating info from a book is so true, in my experience not using theory and lack of common sense to solve problems, just following the book. I get sooooooo frustrated with the lack of common sense, especially in dealing with child protection, not a good combo. I was actually shocked and appalled that child protection workers aren't always qualified social workers!!? How can you make life changing decisions for people with no or little accredited training!?? Again, therefore missing essential clues, indications of abuse etc. ooh don't get me going! It would appear child protection is not a priority in Oz! With shocking and appalling practices! Ooh my God, I need to breath ;-) ha!

 

the duck thing made me laugh, an Aussie colleague used to say that all the time!

 

I thought Oz would be a great place to live and raise a family, but having worked in Oz and the experiences I have had, the lack of focus on child protection and experience by those working in that field does impact on the average family also.work is not child focused and is pro parent (abusive).

I'll stop...

 

I have read your posts pre and during Oz. shame your not in Sydney, could have caught up! :-)

 

PS..I know I went off on one..I get so frustrated! :-)

 

I haven't yet dealt with a vulnerable child, but I have dealt with a vulnerable adult. I went to a Nursing Home the other night and I was shocked at the horrendous standard of care. My patient was lying on a wet sheet. The bed had been changed and newly washed, but not dried, bedding was but on his bed, and him on top of it. I mentioned this to my partner and he just shrugged his shoulders. The room had 2 people in it, not enough room to swing a cat and no privacy for either patient. He shrugged his shoulders and said ''What can you do......I've seen worse places than this!'' There was no sense of moral obligation to this elderly and frail man, who probably helped build Australia in his day. I can only imagine the same level of complacency exists in Child protection as well. I feel your frustration.

[bensdad]

I'm being bullied at work at the moment. Spoke to my boss bout it 8 weeks ago and have been monitoring it since as its been getting worse. This week called in hr who seemed to react however their findings show that this individual has also now received another 6 complaints there solution to performance manage him! Wtf I have now refused to work with him so I'm waiting for a response from my employer. However been told his reason for bullying is due to everybody under performing so now if anyone complains this guy can turn it round and say he moaned due to performance. Place is a joke and this is seriously making think of an alternative work place at the moment.

[Wellers and Whitehead]

I'm being bullied at work at the moment. Spoke to my boss bout it 8 weeks ago and have been monitoring it since as its been getting worse. This week called in hr who seemed to react however their findings show that this individual has also now received another 6 complaints there solution to performance manage him! Wtf I have now refused to work with him so I'm waiting for a response from my employer. However been told his reason for bullying is due to everybody under performing so now if anyone complains this guy can turn it round and say he moaned due to performance. Place is a joke and this is seriously making think of an alternative work place at the moment.

 

Ooh God, so story to hear that! I agree, what a joke! Bullying is bullying! No excuses! As I've said I have seen it happen numerous times in Oz, but what a ##ck, 6 complaints! are hr taking it further? I Hope so! Just out of interest what line of work are you in? Let me know what the outcome is. Sorry limited to what I write as phone is stupid :-) keep smiling!

[flag of convenience]

I'm being bullied at work at the moment. Spoke to my boss bout it 8 weeks ago and have been monitoring it since as its been getting worse. This week called in hr who seemed to react however their findings show that this individual has also now received another 6 complaints there solution to performance manage him! Wtf I have now refused to work with him so I'm waiting for a response from my employer. However been told his reason for bullying is due to everybody under performing so now if anyone complains this guy can turn it round and say he moaned due to performance. Place is a joke and this is seriously making think of an alternative work place at the moment.

 

Not an unusual reply. There's usually a lot of talk and little action. Those supposed to take action don't really give a fig in the end unless it's in danger of biting them...Many would seek an alternative for their own self care,if nothing else. Good luck......sad to say far from unique though.

[newjez]

I was trained as a mainframe cobol programmer in Perth. I took the year 2000 issue as an opportunity to travel the world and make some money at the same time. When I returned to Perth in 2003 - I found that all the mainframe work was on the east coast, and they had all been decommissioned in WA. I got some work with the dept of mines decommissioning their mainframe, but it was a 6 week rolling contract which I hated. By the end of a year I got offered a 6 mth contract at western power, but by then my wife was so unhappy it was leave or get divorced.

 

Since then I am training in C# asp.net - so in theory I could return in a year or two when I get some more experience.

 

The only bad experience I've had at work was at the dept of mines. It was a strange situation with two agencies working together. I was instructed to get in the and get up to speed ASAP. This is what I do - so I went in and started absorbing knowledge from the documentation and the people working there. After 4 weeks, I was dragged into an office and told in no uncertain terms that if I didn't work more intuitively, then I would be out on my ear. I informed them that I read the manuals and used the net to find solutions, but if they weren't readily available, then I would ask. I didn't think this was inappropriate, and I didn't see the point wasting days trying to find a solution if I knew someone had the answer.

 

I was instructed to spend 24 hours resolving issues before seeking assistance. I spent the next week cruising the internet looking for another job. I was then hauled back into the office and told that as I'd shown a vast improvement this week, they would renew me for another 6 weeks. I very quickly saw how the land lay, so I just backed off and did my job quietly. I saw the other agency take down two dba's from our agency because they were too good. It was pretty obvious what was happening, but my boss was too dumb to see it. But I wanted the job so I kept quiet.

 

When the project went live, I got a special mention for the excellent work I did, which was utter crap. I did my job as best I could, but it is so hard working under that political friction. The other agency got the maintenance contract, and so our agency was out on it's ear. It sucked and it was part of the reason we left.

 

Actually - I do remember a bullying incident in the UK. There was a guy I worked with who would constantly have a go about sport. It was funny, as at the time Australia was even winning the netball. But it didn't bother me. He had a passion for rugby, and I patiently explained that it was an eastern states game and I had no interest, but it didn't stop him. It got worse and worse, to the point where he was emailing me anti Aussie crap every day. One day he sent me an email saying that all Aussies were wife beaters. I sent it back, letting him know that I had a folder storing all his emails, and that I found them offensive, and if he sent them anymore, I'd make an official complaint. Never heard from him again. I have since gone back to that company, and I work with the same guy, and not a whisper. We're even on nodding terms. Very strange.

Edited December 7, 2012 by newjez

[MARYROSE02]

As I mentioned once before, working in England in the 1970's before I came to Australia, I was constantly bullied and harassed to the point where a job I loved became a place to dread going to - not unlike my experiences at school in the decade before. I expected to get more of the same, only worse, once I arrived here, as I assumed the Aussies to be a few centuries behind 'us.' What a revelation to find that the people I worked with had no desire to bully, harrass, or take the ****.

 

'Fit in or **** off???!!!

 

Turn it up.

 

Fitting into life in Australia has been the easiest thing I have ever had to do.

[Guest guest76088]

http://www.clement.co.uk/2012/12/restructuring-a-modern-narrative-in-1000-words/

 

BigD

[Chortlepuss]

I'm being bullied at work at the moment. Spoke to my boss bout it 8 weeks ago and have been monitoring it since as its been getting worse. This week called in hr who seemed to react however their findings show that this individual has also now received another 6 complaints there solution to performance manage him! Wtf I have now refused to work with him so I'm waiting for a response from my employer. However been told his reason for bullying is due to everybody under performing so now if anyone complains this guy can turn it round and say he moaned due to performance. Place is a joke and this is seriously making think of an alternative work place at the moment.

 

Sorry to hear that. I was bullied at an organisation supposed to have a reputation for caring!! I identified corruption in the workplace and escalated it, not knowing that the situation was widely tolerated and even encouraged. I fought back, involved HR, got many witnesses. My contract was terminated, the bully (friends in many high places) was promoted. I know you have to live by your values, but if I'd have known the effect it would have on me, I would have got out. If the bully is well connected, then all the integrity in the world won't save you. Sometimes you have to save yourself

[bensdad]

Well it turns out that all that is going to happen is the person is being told about his future conduct. But we are all under the microscope now due to him telling hr he's like it due to consistent under performance from everyone. Even though all of our reviews are good etc.

 

It's evident our director encourages this bullish behaviour and now if anyone complains he will have a diary full of incidents to offset his actions.

 

As for me ive refused point blank to work for him so I will find out my fate on Monday.

[Warm but mild]

Australia is one of the world leaders in my industry, mainly due to excellent research output and graduate programs. Going to the UK would mean a serious step back. The fact that I studied and worked in Australia has helped me achieve career progression in other countries worldwide. But it's specific to my field I believe.

[Guest]

Luckily I didn't migrate to Australia for my job. We got PR before arriving so I just applied for nursing job that fitted in with my plans and timescale to move over here. I have experienced a few of the issues as mentioned by other posters mainly with bullying colleagues and also I found that some of the practices were outdated, unsafe and no one gave a **** if you said anything or suggested change. I couldn't be arsed to fight back with them so just made it clear that the role wasnt for me and started looking around for other roles. I worked casually around other hospitals and health care facilities and was amazed by the variation in care standards and practices. Some great and some utter S***. I'm just about to start a new role in a completely different area of Nursing with much better hours and more autonomy.

 

For those of you reliant on a fantastic career I can see why returning to Europe would have its advantages.

 

Watch this space.

[madgen]

Would you/have you, returned to the UK (left Australia) partly because your chosen career is very different in Australia? Can't get a job you have trained to do? you are losing your skills/knowledge because things are not as progressive in your career in Oz?

 

Oh Yes! For sure, promised a dream and got a nightmare.

[madgen]

We will agree to disagree then, on the poor management /bullying can't be better or worse in different countries. Prior to moving to Oz I read lots of posts on here about bullying/micro management in my line of work. I didn't pay too much attention to it, partly because I didn't want to believe it but also because I didn't think it could happen as often/as much as people reported.

I can understand it now I have seen it for myself.

 

you're not social workers by any chance are you????

[Wellers and Whitehead]

you're not social workers by any chance are you????

 

ha..just looking through some old posts and found this, yes I am a social worker. How's things going back in the UK? Work wise? Where are you based now?

[madgen]

ha..just looking through some old posts and found this, yes I am a social worker. How's things going back in the UK? Work wise? Where are you based now?

Things are going very well thanks, been no problem securing work back in the UK. Currently working as a Guardian in south west London. You still in Oz?

[Wellers and Whitehead]

Things are going very well thanks, been no problem securing work back in the UK. Currently working as a Guardian in south west London. You still in Oz?

 

Yeh i'm still in Sydney, struggling to get a proper job as I don't drive, ill see how it goes in the next six months, then I need to reassess my situation, as i'm wasting my life away but working to survive in a shitty job that pays badly. Guardian jobs sounds fab, what level did you originally leave the UK as?

[madgen]

It's interesting how Oz gives the impression of such a great work life balance when the reality is having to work ridiculous hours just to pay the over inflated prices there. When I was in Oz I felt like I was missing out, standing still while the rest of the world moved on. What work are you doing? Still social work? I have to say that I have never felt so unhappy in a job as I did in Melbourne! Before I left the UK I had worked for local authority in statutory child protection roles for 14 years, that's why I was so miffed that when I got to Oz I was given a role in intake which was really little more than a call centre, I never met a client and wasn't able to offer anyone a service. I just think Australia pays lip services to child protection, their systems and processes are so poorly thought through, non existent or prehistoric! I went to Oz on a generous relocation package, when I left, they threatened me with legal action to recoup their money, I told them to go whistle for it and should they ever bother me again then I'd take them to court for mis selling the role and wasting my time ... Never heard from them again. I would re visit Oz for a holiday but never to live/work there. What are your options?