Guest sh7t man no way Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 having a read of the thread cal to me it seems like a bit of a grey area--but regardless it seems like some progress has been made in the fight against the big C--any progress is good progress in my book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GilraenH Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 If Autism and MMR were directly related there would be a different set of stats than there is. Statistically it is not evidential but anyone can produce anything from the internet to support their theory. There remains no research which has proven the link between MMR and autism. There is a lot of supposition. And a lot of people making money from parents fears. I make no apologies for being concerned about public health. But vaccines are administered on an evidence based premise to individuals by trained and educated professionals to protect individuals. :biggrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jaycube Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Its a good initiative by the government to support the youth of this country, i would like to say its good announcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 The reason that autism "appears" shortly after the MMR is because that period of time is when the child's "hard wiring" takes place, and again during teens. Autism is likened to throwing a switch in the hall and the bedroom light comes on.......the "electrical circuits" (for want of a better word) are invariably beiing assembled around the time, or after, that MMR vaccine is administered. If autism could be detected earlier, the MMR theory would be totally debunked. First it was MMR and then it was mercury fillings........parents will always look for reasons as to why their children are not neurotypicals, but accepting none proven theories as gospel/likely, is of no help whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairystar32 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I did read a while back that a woman who was scared of adverse effects waiting until her child went to school for the MMR vaccination, she did not have it at all until 5 yrs old. her child was developing completly normally, she thought she was 'over' the danger area, where she would know by now if there was a chance of autism, so decided to have the vaccination ebfore school. her child shut down not long after, was diagnosed with autism. She knows it was the vaccination. its stories like this that scare me and the reason my son hasnt been vaccinated yet... I am so confused by the whole thing and cannot find any information which is not totally for or totally against, with horrifying stories, so makes it difficult to filter out whats truth, cover up or exageration.. I also have come to know some of these mothers, you know your child as a mother and know if they have been effected so differently by something. That makes it harder. I also worry about the denials. I know a child who collapsed after a vaccination at 14, collapsed within a hour of it and then was ill for over a month. he didnt eat, always slept and went from being a 7 am riser, to being dragged out of bed, he since recovered but still suffers from frequent exhaustion episodes. He was 14 at the time it was administered and they swore blind it wasnt the vaccination and refused to aknowledge the reaction as connected.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisleylass Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 This is great news. Guys don't just carry HPV, they can also suffer throat cancer from the virus. I will have to tell my hubby's cousin, she suffered terribly with HPV cancers but is a strong lady and is doing great now. She has been campaigning for the HPV vaccine to be given free to boys in the UK, in fact I think she already paid for her son to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoiam Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 There are a lot of things in medicine that we do not yet know. Likewise there are a lot we do know. Vaccines have had an enormous role in wiping out to near extinction killer diseases globally.take for instance Small pox. With the oral polio vac drive in countries like India--which I have been part of--its helped reduce the incidence of polio to near negligible levels. And this is mostly in part due to the herd immunity. And that is again why its better vaccinating boys and girls for the HPV. But those in the medical field especially should never succumb to the lure to only glorifying something whilst failing to see the side effects.-- that is calamitous. Neither is scaremongering useful. The issue nowadays is that in the eyes of the Global leaders the benefits of the vaccines far outweigh the potential side effects it may have, and they fear therefore that anything drawing attention to something like autism etc will be counter productive. This much is clear for anyone to see. But unfortunately for the mum or dad or for the kid who suffers from a side effect the gospel of herd immunity is not going to provide any succour. This goes above and way beyond the question of the integrity of Dr. Andrew Wakefield. The voices of those in the medical profession who do have doubts are either crushed or sidelined. This is simply not a fear that exists in the minds of the scaredy mums. There are a lot of medical professionals the world over who want to see more unbiased research into the field of immunity / immune response etc. Even in the Uk Dr. Wakefields research and publication went unchallenged until the vaccine uptake rates started to go down. It was then , several years after publication , that several of the 13 authors of the paper started to withdraw their support to the paper they co-authored! I'm sure most people, especially doctors, when faced with the possibility /threat of losing their right to practice will succumb to pressure. I am not against vaccines per se. But I am against the use of power to hide and thwart the search for truth however unpleasant that may be. It only goes to show that fanaticism exists not only amongst the religious:wink:! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GilraenH Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I did read a while back that a woman who was scared of adverse effects waiting until her child went to school for the MMR vaccination, she did not have it at all until 5 yrs old. her child was developing completly normally, she thought she was 'over' the danger area, where she would know by now if there was a chance of autism, so decided to have the vaccination ebfore school. her child shut down not long after, was diagnosed with autism. She knows it was the vaccination. its stories like this that scare me and the reason my son hasnt been vaccinated yet... I am so confused by the whole thing and cannot find any information which is not totally for or totally against, with horrifying stories, so makes it difficult to filter out whats truth, cover up or exageration.. I also have come to know some of these mothers, you know your child as a mother and know if they have been effected so differently by something. That makes it harder. I also worry about the denials. I know a child who collapsed after a vaccination at 14, collapsed within a hour of it and then was ill for over a month. he didnt eat, always slept and went from being a 7 am riser, to being dragged out of bed, he since recovered but still suffers from frequent exhaustion episodes. He was 14 at the time it was administered and they swore blind it wasnt the vaccination and refused to aknowledge the reaction as connected.... The problems with these stories is that they are just that, some ones stories. Facts for vaccination are based on clinical trials and reported adverse events by parents and professionals. The largest piece of evidence for the safety of the MMR is the Finnish study, this was a longitudinal study where parents reported any problems after the vaccination. The Finnish study followed 1.8 million individuals for 14 years from the start of the MMR vaccination programme in 1982 (Pediatric Infectious Disease Journal 2000;19:1127-34). By the end of 1996 almost three million vaccine doses had been given, and 173 potentially serious reactions had been recorded as having possibly been caused by the vaccine. The most common event was febrile seizure.The study's authors, from the Hospital for Children and Adolescents in Helsinki, reported that 45% of these events proved to be probably caused by some other factor, giving an incidence of serious adverse events of 3.2 per 100<thin>000 vaccine doses.No case of inflammatory bowel disease or autism was detected, and the authors say that if there were an association between either of these conditions and the MMR vaccine, this prospective study design would undoubtedly have disclosed at least some cases. I have no vested interest in you vaccinating your child. I only want you to make your decision based on facts, not stories. It is very hard to make these decisions as you only want the best for your children. Read as much as you can and talk to professionals who are ethically bound to report facts not media stories designed to make money for them by selling papers. As to denials. If within an hour of a vaccination someone was run over by a bus would the vaccine have caused it? MMR is a live vaccine and the designed reaction takes place around 10days later, with a mild temperature etc. That is a good sign that it is working. Good luck with deciding. :biggrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanuts Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I am so confused by the whole thing and cannot find any information which is not totally for or totally against, with horrifying stories, so makes it difficult to filter out whats truth, cover up or exageration.. I also have come to know some of these mothers, you know your child as a mother and know if they have been effected so differently by something. That makes it harder. Trust your instincts as a mother. It is so hard trying to do what is "best" by your kids all the time, but I feel that this is an issue which deserves endless hours of study and research before deciding what to do. In the UK kids have 34 vaccines (some combined) by the age of 4. That is a staggering amount, and I am certain few adults would line up and take that many one after the next. I know this post is about the HPV vaccine, but I admire you for asking the question parents are often lambasted for asking. There are many informative books available online. Good luck with your decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritChickx Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I had the vaccine done when I was 18 (you had to wait for a letter from your doctor to be invited to have it done).....no hassle or side effects. Might have been a different 'brand' of vaccine having it done in the UK tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritChickx Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Also of course had all the MMR and other childhood vaccines....and i'm perfectly fine. Never got chicken pox altho am apparently immune to it. Only vaccine i've not had done was my BCG ....was too busy having fun in Ibiza and missed out on it and then the schools stopped doing it after that. Gonna be a pain in the bum getting it done when I do my nursing. i've had one hep b jab out of the 3 done so not sure if i have to have the first one done over again as it's meant to be done over 6 months.....going a bit off topic here now lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GilraenH Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I am so confused by the whole thing and cannot find any information which is not totally for or totally against, with horrifying stories, so makes it difficult to filter out whats truth, cover up or exageration..I also have come to know some of these mothers, you know your child as a mother and know if they have been effected so differently by something. That makes it harder. Trust your instincts as a mother. It is so hard trying to do what is "best" by your kids all the time, but I feel that this is an issue which deserves endless hours of study and research before deciding what to do. In the UK kids have 34 vaccines (some combined) by the age of 4. That is a staggering amount, and I am certain few adults would line up and take that many one after the next. I know this post is about the HPV vaccine, but I admire you for asking the question parents are often lambasted for asking. There are many informative books available online. Good luck with your decision. With all research do make sure that the books are evidenced based and not all one sided or simply material written to make money from other peoples misery. There are many of these. As peanuts say trust your instincts but also ask professionals for material to read too that way you can make 'informed' choices. As to 34 vaccines, many of these are combined in a single injection so no need to line up for 34 injections. :eek: Immunisations improve the immune system particularly when developing as a child. Travellers often take many many immunisations to visit a far off country. We give these to children to potentially save their lives or reduce the complications. Immunisation is one of the most effective public health measures in our history. No one has lambasted you for asking the questions here I hope? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairystar32 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 The problem is my instinct. All my older kids have had the mmr and for whatever reason my mind and body has been screaming at me NOT to give my youngest the vaccination, I do not know why but I am terrified to give it him. This was before reseacrhing it. I have studied the illnesses And feel less worried about the illness than the instinct not to get the vaccination. I am keeping my options open and have Been in turmoil about it for 3 yrs now. On a side note he HAS had all his vaccinations upto12 mths old except hep b and chickenpox as we do not do them in the UK anyway and I had no issue giving him them... I am so confused by the whole thing and cannot find any information which is not totally for or totally against, with horrifying stories, so makes it difficult to filter out whats truth, cover up or exageration..I also have come to know some of these mothers, you know your child as a mother and know if they have been effected so differently by something. That makes it harder. Trust your instincts as a mother. It is so hard trying to do what is "best" by your kids all the time, but I feel that this is an issue which deserves endless hours of study and research before deciding what to do. In the UK kids have 34 vaccines (some combined) by the age of 4. That is a staggering amount, and I am certain few adults would line up and take that many one after the next. I know this post is about the HPV vaccine, but I admire you for asking the question parents are often lambasted for asking. There are many informative books available online. Good luck with your decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supa Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Our instinct with the MMR was that we had a choice, so if there's a doubt, why have it done. We opted for single jabs with a 6 weeks gap between. There was a nagging doubt about whether or not he was autistic at the time (thank god he's not) but we figured that if we had the MMR and he was then diagnosed as autistic, then we'd never live with ourselves. Personal choice. Ref cancer jab, we're a way off that with our kids yet, but will be doing a whole lot of research nearer the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelP Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 My kids have had all their vaccinations but the HPV for boys vaccine program is a bit premature, I think. Being 'world first' is not always a good thing - especially for untried medical ideas! The Australian government is really pushing Gardasil because it is an Australian invention. However, there are a few unanswered questions about this vaccine. I don't think it's unsafe, but there are a lot of assumptions being made about it's efficacy. Yes, the HPV vaccine does prevent the change from cervical abnormalities (CIN) to cancer. The same cannot be said with certainty for the transition for anal lesions to anal cancer (one of the two main HPV cancers in males). There is little or no evidence for the effects of HPV vaccine on oropharyngeal cancer. Australian researchers have shown that most of the benefit (ie about 75%) of HPV vaccination is derived form the current young female vaccination program - extending it to boys would add only a little extra benefit - and that's assuming that all boys have the vaccine and that it works as expected. It would have been far better to spend this $20 million on immunisation programs against whooping cough or flu, both of which cause many easily preventable serious illnesses and deaths in Australia. I suspect the Gardasil funding is more to do with supporting its maker CSL (a Victorian manufacturer) than about good science or health policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanuts Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 GilraenH I completely agree that research done via books etc should be evidence based. I didn't insinuate that the OP had been lambasted at all in this thread- in the contrary actually I feel everyone has been very fair in looking at this issue from both sides. I meant that many parents are made to feel guilty for doubting something that should be a choice as a parent. I did say that the 34 vaccinations were often given in combination (often 5 in 1), but if you add them up singly the amount of individual strains given either singly or in combination does add up to over thirty, which is a lot. However this post was about a specific vaccination so perhaps that's not completely relevant here. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I'm sorry but the doubts some people have over vaccines are not founded in science but in pure paranoia. The MMR vaccines is safe, it is not associated with autism. Refusing to have MMR or subjecting your child to seperate vaccines is bonkers, and selfish IMO. The whole point of MMR is 'herd immunity', so by not having it there is a higher chance of sporadic cases of measles occuring. Dont forget measles can kill, or cause serious complications which may result in permanent disability like encephalitis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairystar32 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 It's never that simple, I have read a lot of herd immunity... Putting YOUR OWN child first Is not my opinion of selfish... Sorry... Calling parent who are in turmoil deciding what todo, selfish, solves nothing and puts people backs up and switches them off. No vaccination is 100% safe, ever, period. Just like anything else. MMR may be reasonably safe, but saying blanket statement is safe, when they are paying out for damages, is therefore untrue. if I had the choice to vaccinate him for measles separately I would. I'm sorry but the doubts some people have over vaccines are not founded in science but in pure paranoia. The MMR vaccines is safe, it is not associated with autism. Refusing to have MMR or subjecting your child to seperate vaccines is bonkers, and selfish IMO. The whole point of MMR is 'herd immunity', so by not having it there is a higher chance of sporadic cases of measles occuring. Dont forget measles can kill, or cause serious complications which may result in permanent disability like encephalitis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Longdog Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Australia seems to be leading the world in the field of medicine. I read recently that they have developed a cure for arthritis using stem cell therapy. Thats got to be good news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calNgary Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 I will admit Dom, i am a bit paranoid about my kids having the Cancer injections, probably more so than i was over the MMR. I know there is loadssss of stuff out there about the MMR both good and bad but because this new injection , especially for the boys, hasnt been around as long then there obviously isnt as much 'feedback' (for want of a better word) out there. On the flip side maybe thats not a bad thing or my head really would be mashed,lol Cal x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairystar32 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Thank you Its nice to actually be able to discuss this, some people are so pro or against or turn it nasty, that us mums scared and trying to find out get a little stuck in the middle, often ending up more confused and unsure where to turn...your made to feel stupid for questionning and Not vaccinating, or stupid to even think of putting toxins into their bodies !!! but I admire you for asking the question parents are often lambasted for asking. There are many informative books available online. Good luck with your decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I releived my own tormoil on the injections by taking the cowards way out.......I did what I was medically advised to do and my children have all had what I was advised to give them. If something went wrong it would then be entirely the fault of the medical practitioners and I feel I would feel less guilty than if I didnt follow their advise then something happened, then I really wouldnt forgive myself. My son will be having it, when its time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calNgary Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 I releived my own tormoil on the injections by taking the cowards way out.......I did what I was medically advised to do and my children have all had what I was advised to give them. If something went wrong it would then be entirely the fault of the medical practitioners and I feel I would feel less guilty than if I didnt follow their advise then something happened, then I really wouldnt forgive myself. My son will be having it, when its time. That does make total sense really..Thankyou Id feel guilty if they had it and something went wrong, but id feel really guilty if they didnt and developed Cancer.. hence your post makes a lot of sense to me. Cal x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Our instinct with the MMR was that we had a choice, so if there's a doubt, why have it done. We opted for single jabs with a 6 weeks gap between. There was a nagging doubt about whether or not he was autistic at the time (thank god he's not) Why? I thank God that my son is exactly who he is...............autistic or not....................in many respects, he's a damn sight happer than many neuro typicals, and although his life is challenging in that he has to live in a neurotypical world, he meets those challenges head on, and puts many neurotypicals to shame in his efforts to make sense of an alien world. He sees things that we could never appreciate..................sunlight glinting off a car wing mirror woulkd be an annoyance to an NT driver...........he sees it as thing of beauty. Birds singing on the roof which we do not hear.........he revels in. Red hot sand that is such an anooyance to our bare feet on the beach, he will sieve through his fingers and see every drop of sunlight glistening off each granule.................sometimes I envy him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landv Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Thank you Its nice to actually be able to discuss this, some people are so pro or against or turn it nasty, that us mums scared and trying to find out get a little stuck in the middle, often ending up more confused and unsure where to turn...your made to feel stupid for questionning and Not vaccinating, or stupid to even think of putting toxins into their bodies !!! Can I just ask if your children had any of the other childhood vaccinations or is it just the MMR jab that you're against? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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