Is emigration selfish?

[Tulip]

I recently saw a comment that stated that 'Emigration is a selfish process'. I can understand if one person doesn't want to leave their home in England/Australia to move to one or the other, but does so because their OH wants to. I don't understand how that groups all emigration as selfish? There are plenty of families that move over together, both wanting the same thing. Myself included, my OH and I are moving to Aus where he was raised and it certainly won't be a selfish move on my part because we are both in a loving and trusting relationship and talk about the things we want, we don't hide anything. So I'm sorry but I don't understand how such a generalised statement can be made? Certainly sounds like a very uneducated one.

 

Aside from selfish partners, how is emigration itself selfish? Perhaps you could argue that it's selfish because you're taking children or future children away from their grandparents or uncles, etc. But would you consider family and friends selfish to ask you to stay because of that? Are children happier with their parents, or with their grandparents? I certainly know that had I had a child in Australia after moving there, the child wouldn't miss people it hadn't met before.

Perhaps selfish because you're taking away from people in the UK/Aus? Because they can't enjoy you or your kids anymore whilst you're there? Seems like that's a selfish act on the people who are staying though... if you love something, let it go and be happy.

 

So I agree that in some aspects you could say that people who emigrate that are taking loved ones with them would be a selfish act, but certainly not all, and I do think selfish is too strong a word. Is it selfish to follow what we'd like? With one set of grandparents in Aus and one in the UK, I know I couldn't stay in either country without being accused of being selfish because I would always be depriving one or the other of future grandchildren.

 

But surely a black and white statement like 'emigration is a selfish process' isn't necessary. Especially not on a forum that's directed at poms in Australia, whether they want to return or not. Certainly not very open-minded to make others think that by emigrating they will be selfish people making a selfish decision... A little like telling someone not to get the bus, because you might be taking up someone's seat who will aboard later on in the journey. Sometimes you have to think about what's best for your partner and yourself and not let other people try to keep you from your dreams. Because that might make those people the selfish ones.

[Perthbum]

Depends how much you are liked in your country of birth, some relatives might be glad to see the back of you.

[Guest51810]

I dont think selfish is the right word, I know sometimes you have to just do what you think is right no matter how your family feel about it which some people might see as selfish. I think its worse when some family's beg them to stay and try and guilt trip them but i can see why it would be hard for the family, so glad my family would never do that to me. they'd just be glad to get rid of me :laugh:

[Tulip]

:laugh: LOL Perthbum, true enough!!

[Guest51810]

Depends how much you are liked in your country of birth, some relatives might be glad to see the back of you.

 

you beat me to it lol that must be why none of mine seem bothered :cry:

[Guest Andy]

Depends how much you are liked in your country of birth, some relatives might be glad to see the back of you.

 

Yeah i agree :unsure:

[Guest sh7t man no way]

its not selfish to want a presumably a better life,and experience different things--the selfish attitude comes from those people who's comfort zone you are disturbing by having that dream of a different life:daydreaming:

[Rupert]

I think a successful emmigration does require a certain amount of selfishness. But I don't mean this as a bad thing, but simply that the migrant puts and is able to put their own wants and needs before anything else.

 

Interesting comment on future children not knowing family, my parents lived in a different country to the rest of their families and did not particularly keep in touch either, so growing up I had no extended family. So no of course I don't literally miss people I didn't ever know, but I always wished I had that extended family and even now as a 40 something, I still do and I still think I missed out on something. It is too easy to take these things for granted or even see it as a burden.

[rikyuu]

Our priorities were for our young children so we moved here in the hope it would be a better life for them and if it was also better for us, it was a bomus. It has been much better for my wife as there's so much for her to do with the kids and so much socialising, my kids love it here too. I have found it difficult with work pressures, financial pressures and terrible commutes, but try to make up for it at the weekend. I also feel bad that my (small) family in the UK can't see the kids, so we Skype as much as possible (my wife's family is in Japan) and that I can't see my ederly grandmother. That makes me feel a bit selfish. But my kids are the priority and I have to remember that.

[Murta]

yes the statement can be argued as it has been here. seflishness becomes the word used when your life plans are exposed to the public in the most obvious way immigrating, so its hard to avoid being called selfish as a higher percentage of people 9family friends and community) are sad or will feel the void your departure will have on their lives so the only way of licking that wound is to name the immigrating person as "selfish". we are easier targets as it is us that are upping the apple cart so to speak.

 

But all said and done I still firmly consider that my decision to remove my children from their extended family, culture values and identity could

possibly be THE MOST selfish thing I can do and I do question deep down if this is worth the upheaval. I see it in my work little kids how are settled in their school fair enough but are cut from their extended family soley dependant on their nuclear family who are working damn hard to make it working living in ireland...in child protection/welfare jargon we could view them as socially isolated families as when the chips are down families that work together are needed and get you out of messes sooner. i degress but all in all i feel selfish is the closet word that is universal in many immigrants minding when making the decision an dif not in their in many of the family's minds they leave behind.

[twinsmom65]

I think a successful emmigration does require a certain amount of selfishness. But I don't mean this as a bad thing, but simply that the migrant puts and is able to put their own wants and needs before anything else.

 

Interesting comment on future children not knowing family, my parents lived in a different country to the rest of their families and did not particularly keep in touch either, so growing up I had no extended family. So no of course I don't literally miss people I didn't ever know, but I always wished I had that extended family and even now as a 40 something, I still do and I still think I missed out on something. It is too easy to take these things for granted or even see it as a burden.

 

 

Totally agree with you on this, you do have to put your needs before others and it that way it is selfish. Also with respect to not growing up with an extended family, if you are a self reliant family you will be fine as a migrant.

 

Personally myself, I have enjoyed my kids having that special bond with their grandparents, enjoying that cuddle time when they were younger.

 

I have often said that I would have stayed in Australia longer if we had family around.

[twinsmom65]

I also find it ironic that people will accuse a person of being selfish if that person is not in love with Australia and wants to move back home and yet says nothing about the person who was the driving force in the emigration.

 

I guess in some people's eyes their burning desire to emigrate does not preclude them to being selfish, even though they are taking their family away from family, friends and the familiarity that they know.

[fairystar32]

We moved for OUR family and children and Yes, I think we were selfish. We put our childrens future and our future first at the cost of my extended family. I was very close to my sister and miss her dreadfully.

We were discussing family last night and my kids said after 3 yrs and 4 mths of living here they love it, they would not go back to the Uk if they had the chocie but they miss their family. They miss particullary their auntie and cousins, whom they were close too. This made my daughter tear up thinking about her..

 

They wish they could come here to live too, to them it would then be perfect.

I do believe it was selfish, In my personal opinion, but I had to think of us for the long term.

I do regret that my children do not have the bond they had and are loosing that extended family connection but hoping that as they grow (my eldest is 18) and they have their children, the extended family here, will grow..

[northshorepom]

But surely a black and white statement like 'emigration is a selfish process' isn't necessary. Especially not on a forum that's directed at poms in Australia, whether they want to return or not. Certainly not very open-minded to make others think that by emigrating they will be selfish people making a selfish decision... A little like telling someone not to get the bus, because you might be taking up someone's seat who will aboard later on in the journey. Sometimes you have to think about what's best for your partner and yourself and not let other people try to keep you from your dreams. Because that might make those people the selfish ones.

 

I think what the person who posted meant was that there is an element of self-interest in emigration, as is highlighted by the words I've put in bold

 

In other words, what Rupert said on page 1. In different other words, I think you're over-reacting to the term "selfish". Most emigration decisions are driven by a desire to change/improve things for the nuclear family and there is an inherent selfish aspect to this. It doesn't make you a bad person. Anything else you do to improve your lot could also be construed as selfish. If you worked hard to get qualifications or to progress in your career and were paid more as a result, you wouldn't give all your pay rise away to someone else for fear of being though "selfish", would you?

[Guest Guest72037]

This is a very apt discussion as I was wondering just yesterday whether I was being selfish wanting to move with my young family to the UK. This would take my child away from extended family, which is exactly what my parents did to me when we moved to Australia when I was a child. I have always felt something was missing and I don't even like much of my extended family! I worry that my child will feel the displacement I felt and will resent me during the teenage years as I did my parents. However, I believe I would regret not taking a chance and moving to England. I guess one could be called selfish for wanting to live out a hope or dream or yearning for a life they deem better for the family they have created when it will negatively effect the lives of the people they hold dear. Yet I also believe that most decisions we make are in our own best interests and, to that end, I will continue to do what I think is right for my family. This doesn't mean I will feel any less guilty when we book the tickets. I just hope that I stand strong in my convictions when the time comes to tell my mum I'm taking her only grandchild away and that I will understand if my child comes to me one day and tells me she is moving to another country.

[BritChickx]

you beat me to it lol that must be why none of mine seem bothered :cry:

i bet they are bothered, probably just hiding it cos they don't want you to leave. I got it from my family! Well most anyway.

 

I don't think it's selfish. If one doesn't want to go then they shouldn't really sacrifice their happiness just to keep their OH happy.....though might be different with kids aswell. Luckily me and of course Paul want to move! So we are doing what makes us happy....whether other people like it or not....got to live for yourself not other people.

[Quoll]

It was me that said it. It is unfortunate that selfishness is interpreted in a negative way but to be a successful migrant you do have to be very focussed on what you and yours want to do. If you wallow in what other people think about your actions and how they affect them then you will flounder. To that extent it is very much about thinking about number 1 and what is going to work for you and too bad for anyone else whose lives are affected by your departure. It's a shame that the word selfishness does have that negative connotation because in the matter of migration it is a survival skill.

 

However there are some who take selfishness to a new level and bully partners into making changes which really screw up their lives all because they want to "live the dream" and then bully their partners by the exertion of spiteful control to stay in a place they dont want to be - now that is despicable selfishness!

 

So, in essence, yes, you do have to be selfish and very self sufficient to be a successful migrant

[Alaska]

It was me that said it. It is unfortunate that selfishness is interpreted in a negative way but to be a successful migrant you do have to be very focussed on what you and yours want to do. If you wallow in what other people think about your actions and how they affect them then you will flounder. To that extent it is very much about thinking about number 1 and what is going to work for you and too bad for anyone else whose lives are affected by your departure. It's a shame that the word selfishness does have that negative connotation because in the matter of migration it is a survival skill.

 

However there are some who take selfishness to a new level and bully partners into making changes which really screw up their lives all because they want to "live the dream" and then bully their partners by the exertion of spiteful control to stay in a place they dont want to be - now that is despicable selfishness!

 

So, in essence, yes, you do have to be selfish and very self sufficient to be a successful migrant

 

I agree with your sentiment but don't really like the word selfish because of its negative connotations. It's very difficult to be wrestling with a big decision like emigrating and to come on here to read that you are selfish for doing so.

I truly know what you mean though - I think you have to be very capable of facing forward without too many glances back to be able to succeed.