what if we split up?

[whichway1]

Hi folks it's me again. Sorry to come back straight in with a problem but I'd really love anyone's knowledge or help on this. I haven't been on because my life has just been a total rollercoaster!!

 

So we've only been back in the UK 2 months, and I know it is the right move. I have much more support with the baby and some friends (not many) but better than none. However, I have still have the horrible d-e-p-r-e-s-s-i-o-n word. Of course I knew it would still be there.

 

My relationship with my husband, I feel is really bad. He lives on another planet and does not feel like that. TBH we have been struggling for a long time but of course I had no intention of taking his baby away from him to return to the UK while he was in Oz. (although again tbh I think he'd cope just fine). I thought things would pick up here and for me they have. He has been invited to 2 social events with me, both he didn't come and last night my parents booked us a table at a cheap wee pub with the baby.

She has a wee bit of a cold so was a wee bit whingy but really nothing too bad. As soon as we got there his face was all screwed up and I asked him what was wrong and he said he didn't want to be here. So I told him to go the **** home. Of course he didn't and instead he sat there with a ****ing face on him, didn't say a word to anyone except his dinner was crap and at the end stood up and said his anxiety levels are through the roof and went home. I feel like I hate him.

 

Now I know to most that this is a trivial little domestic, but put into perspective, this is only the second time he has ever been anywhere with us as a family in the 18 months since the baby was born (apart from flights over obviously, and the occasional walk with the dog). This is not how I want my family to be. Me and my child/ren doing stuff while the dad sits at home and watches tellie. Which is what he'd quite happily do for the rest of his life. I get SO jealous when I see other people out with their families and I know I will never do that. Of course, you might be thinking I am being harsh and I am a bit, but I am well and truly pissed off cos i have been telling him to get help for ages (if this is an anxiety/depression thing). I have put up with this for years we have never ever gone out as a couple even before the baby! I don't think this is going to change.

 

Now, I promise, I did not come back to the UK with the intention of leaving him, but does anyone know if I did, would his spouse visa become invalid and would he have to go back, and what about our child? I really don't want it to come to that but I would like to know my options. Thanks x x

 

[whichway1]

Oh and I have been trying to get him to go to couple counselling for a long long time too.

[whoiam]

Hi folks it's me again. Sorry to come back straight in with a problem but I'd really love anyone's knowledge or help on this. I haven't been on because my life has just been a total rollercoaster!!

 

So we've only been back in the UK 2 months, and I know it is the right move. I have much more support with the baby and some friends (not many) but better than none. However, I have still have the horrible d-e-p-r-e-s-s-i-o-n word. Of course I knew it would still be there.

 

My relationship with my husband, I feel is really bad. He lives on another planet and does not feel like that. TBH we have been struggling for a long time but of course I had no intention of taking his baby away from him to return to the UK while he was in Oz. (although again tbh I think he'd cope just fine). I thought things would pick up here and for me they have. He has been invited to 2 social events with me, both he didn't come and last night my parents booked us a table at a cheap wee pub with the baby.

She has a wee bit of a cold so was a wee bit whingy but really nothing too bad. As soon as we got there his face was all screwed up and I asked him what was wrong and he said he didn't want to be here. So I told him to go the **** home. Of course he didn't and instead he sat there with a ****ing face on him, didn't say a word to anyone except his dinner was crap and at the end stood up and said his anxiety levels are through the roof and went home. I feel like I hate him.

 

Now I know to most that this is a trivial little domestic, but put into perspective, this is only the second time he has ever been anywhere with us as a family in the 18 months since the baby was born (apart from flights over obviously, and the occasional walk with the dog). This is not how I want my family to be. Me and my child/ren doing stuff while the dad sits at home and watches tellie. Which is what he'd quite happily do for the rest of his life. I get SO jealous when I see other people out with their families and I know I will never do that. Of course, you might be thinking I am being harsh and I am a bit, but I am well and truly pissed off cos i have been telling him to get help for ages (if this is an anxiety/depression thing). I have put up with this for years we have never ever gone out as a couple even before the baby! I don't think this is going to change.

 

Now, I promise, I did not come back to the UK with the intention of leaving him, but does anyone know if I did, would his spouse visa become invalid and would he have to go back, and what about our child? I really don't want it to come to that but I would like to know my options. Thanks x x

 

 

 

Lots of Hugs whichway. Can imagine the stress all this is having on you. Btw is OH an australian? Is it possible for you both to have a quiet chat without the kids around--just a quiet one to explore your issues avoiding recriminations(a bit) or yelling(not at all) and maybe a few tears.--Believe me it helps!

Though I cant do much just praying for you--hoping you will both be able to find a happy middle which just kind of works.

[ali]

I can't answer the visa question and of course am only giving an opinion on what you have written ... but my first thought was that I think your OH may also be depressed which sometimes goes hand in hand with anxiety (and you mentioned this in your post). The life changes that you have experienced have also been experienced by him, whilst he didn't give birth he's become a father, he's also had to move countries and support you when you became depressed in Aus. It is sadly a fact that depression in males goes relatively un diagnosed because they don't go and visit their GP's and sometimes have more difficulty than females discussing emotional stuff with strangers (Dr's/friends). You've mentioned that he found being out quite anxiety provoking and I wondered if that's why he has avoided going to the social events - not because he doesn't want to ... but that he's avoiding them (anixety behaviour) because of anxiety.

 

Just my thoughts.

[Quoll]

Oh dear, that doesnt sound too good at all. It sounds like you need to take the bull by the horns and start relationship counselling on your own to start with - hopefully your counsellor will then work with you on ways to invite him in to the process but you guys really do need to have some clear air and clear thinking time to discuss where you are both going. He should perhaps go and see his GP but he's a bloke and blokes dont want to do that much of the time.

 

I know it isnt any consolation to him but at least you are with your kids in the place where you can get a lot of support - if this situation had occurred in Australia then you wouldnt have been able to leave with the kids as I know you are only too well aware. You might want to talk to a lawyer about what the impact would be on his visa if you split up - it doesnt sound as if he would want to stay in UK anyway.

 

(((hugs))) it sounds like a horrible situation to be in.

[Petals]

I agree with Ali, not wanting to go out is way to avoid anxiety. I know I suffer from it and used to do it all the time, from the time I was invited out to the time we had to go was consumed with a reason to be able to pull out. Being in UK away from home to would be hard for him.

 

As has been said men are harder because they feel they are supposed to be the strong one. However with help and meds life can get a whole lot better. Just have to get to the first step.

 

Good luck.

[whichway1]

I can't answer the visa question and of course am only giving an opinion on what you have written ... but my first thought was that I think your OH may also be depressed which sometimes goes hand in hand with anxiety (and you mentioned this in your post). The life changes that you have experienced have also been experienced by him, whilst he didn't give birth he's become a father, he's also had to move countries and support you when you became depressed in Aus. It is sadly a fact that depression in males goes relatively un diagnosed because they don't go and visit their GP's and sometimes have more difficulty than females discussing emotional stuff with strangers (Dr's/friends). You've mentioned that he found being out quite anxiety provoking and I wondered if that's why he has avoided going to the social events - not because he doesn't want to ... but that he's avoiding them (anixety behaviour) because of anxiety.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

I entirely agree. The only thing I disagree in is that he did not support me at all until I was broken.

 

However, yes he definitely has symptoms of depression and anxiety. My problem is, that he is not really any different in terms of socialising than he has been in our seven years together. I suppose I did think he may want to do things together as a family. The other thing is, I cannot live like this. I have tried and tried and tried to get him to see the GP and if this were to go for the rest of eternity how can this be good? If he doesn't want to fix himself I cannot do it. This is why I am starting to wonder if much of it is his personality. eek:sad:

[whichway1]

Of course, perhaps, instead of telling him to eff off home I should say "well darling if you don't feel up to it then off you go". And I know he is obviously not right but there is only so much we can take. He is like this because this is what his father was like, I do not want my daughter to be like this. He used to tell me to stop dancing ( i am talking sitting on a chair bobbing your head) in the pub. This is the same thing, attention being drawn to him, but that will happen when you have kids. I mean who wants 2 ****ed up parents!

[ali]

I entirely agree. The only thing I disagree in is that he did not support me at all until I was broken.

 

He wouldn't be the first partner that didn't know what to do to help someone and sometimes the support that someone is asking for or needs isn't easily provided by the other person, they just might not have the physical or emotional capacity.

 

 

Just as you found difficulties dealing with your depression, suddenly overcoming anxiety and being able to do things as a family won't be an easy task, thinking of how to avoid things becomes second nature and anxiety is just as debilitating as depression and as I said previously often goes hand in hand with it ... so he's been dealt a double whammy if this is the case. Perhaps he may have been suffering from it for a long time?

 

I think the suggestion of councelling is a good one and as Quoll suggested you can start the relationship councelling on your own.

[whichway1]

He wouldn't be the first partner that didn't know what to do to help someone and sometimes the support that someone is asking for or needs isn't easily provided by the other person, they just might not have the physical or emotional capacity.

 

 

Just as you found difficulties dealing with your depression, suddenly overcoming anxiety and being able to do things as a family won't be an easy task, thinking of how to avoid things becomes second nature and anxiety is just as debilitating as depression and as I said previously often goes hand in hand with it ... so he's been dealt a double whammy if this is the case. Perhaps he may have been suffering from it for a long time?

 

Again, I fully fully agree. He has had a **** time and I do believe this is a thing he has long been experiencing. I know I am being horrible, but he will not take any action. At one point, years ago he got prescribed some venlafaxine but he wouldn't take it for more than a week and as far as he was concerned the issue was over. I actually feel like perhaps we need to split for a while for him to realise that this is ruining us.

 

Sometimes, I think I don't mind us living entirely separate lives and most of the time I am fine with that, as is he. But every now and then I would have liked a bit of normality. I suppose as he is 'happy' or at least content with sitting in the house while we do things then I should let him be so. It was his idea to go to Oz which we did and it all went so bad because he wanted to spend his life watching tellie. 5 years I wasted doing that when he could have done that just as easy here in the UK and now I am blaming him for doing just what I kept saying he could do here!

[Petals]

I wish I had the answer how to get men to seek help. My oh at the present time has a lung problem, he is in a lot of pain and its been weeks, he has had tests, seeing specialist on Friday but will be go back to the doc for pain killers no, I am man, I am strong. Silly B

 

Problem is finding the right person to talk to, so important for you oh, I took a long while to find the right GP

[whichway1]

Lots of Hugs whichway. Can imagine the stress all this is having on you. Btw is OH an australian? Is it possible for you both to have a quiet chat without the kids around--just a quiet one to explore your issues avoiding recriminations(a bit) or yelling(not at all) and maybe a few tears.--Believe me it helps!

Though I cant do much just praying for you--hoping you will both be able to find a happy middle which just kind of works.

 

Thanks:wubclub:

 

I think one of the things we are most sad about is our lack of light hearted conversations. All we ever seem to be discussing is our problems.

[whichway1]

I wish I had the answer how to get men to seek help. My oh at the present time has a lung problem, he is in a lot of pain and its been weeks, he has had tests, seeing specialist on Friday but will be go back to the doc for pain killers no, I am man, I am strong. Silly B

 

Problem is finding the right person to talk to, so important for you oh, I took a long while to find the right GP

 

That sounds very frustrating for you and sore for him:sad:! I understand entirely what you are saying, they are funny people:wubclub:

[3FatCats]

:hug: Have sent you a wee message xxx

[RockDr]

Thanks:wubclub:

 

I think one of the things we are most sad about is our lack of light hearted conversations. All we ever seem to be discussing is our problems.

 

When my parents were having problems, they set aside couple of hours a week to discuss problems, and then the rest of the time they could concentrate on having those light hearted conversations and enjoy themselves, safe in the knowledge that there'd be the opportunity to discuss the issues at another time. Might be worth a try?

 

In terms of what would happen wrt your husband's visa, I'm not sure. However your daughter is currently considered resident in the UK for the purposes of the Hague convention. This basically means that your husband can't take her out of the UK without your permission and vice versa.

[whichway1]

When my parents were having problems, they set aside couple of hours a week to discuss problems, and then the rest of the time they could concentrate on having those light hearted conversations and enjoy themselves, safe in the knowledge that there'd be the opportunity to discuss the issues at another time. Might be worth a try?

 

In terms of what would happen wrt your husband's visa, I'm not sure. However your daughter is currently considered resident in the UK for the purposes of the Hague convention. This basically means that your husband can't take her out of the UK without your permission and vice versa.

 

We actually did a similar thing for a while and it worked. Everytime we just about had a serious conversation we stopped and said no we are not going to talk about this now. We stopped doing it, we will start again.

 

It is so awful to think about someone taking her anywhere and not all living in the same country.

[Guest Pixie10]

Sounds like a really hard situation- I can understand he has anxiety issues etc but if he's always been like that as you say even before the baby and the big move I think honestly I would be much less sympathetic- I would defo be getting to the point of saying to him change or you will lose us. Even more so if you have repeatedly asked him to go get help and hes refused.

 

I would give him a few chances- say that you would like a family day out and he needs to plan it (even if only to the park and lunch or something) but explain that you will not live you life like this and do not want your daughter to be like that.

Goodluck but please dont waste your life on someone who refuses to get help and wants to like that.

Sorry if im a bit harsh but my cousin (best friend) spent years with someone the same and honestly it just brought her down.

[whichway1]

Sounds like a really hard situation- I can understand he has anxiety issues etc but if he's always been like that as you say even before the baby and the big move I think honestly I would be much less sympathetic- I would defo be getting to the point of saying to him change or you will lose us. Even more so if you have repeatedly asked him to go get help and hes refused.

 

I would give him a few chances- say that you would like a family day out and he needs to plan it (even if only to the park and lunch or something) but explain that you will not live you life like this and do not want your daughter to be like that.

Goodluck but please dont waste your life on someone who refuses to get help and wants to like that.

Sorry if im a bit harsh but my cousin (best friend) spent years with someone the same and honestly it just brought her down.

 

 

Thank you for understanding. I think it is right that it is hard to be sympathetic for YEARS when he won't help himself. Unfortunately I feel the other night I was a bit harsh and feel guilty, however, I have not apologised yet as I always do and then say it doesn't matter anyway and we go back to the beginning. And I do feel sorry for him most of the time but I also have my own life to think of and my daughters. You are so right thank you so much x x

[Wendy Thorp]

Hi, i apologise in advance as this will be a long one, but i hope it helps

 

i have been through this, obviously not in the same context but hopefully if a explain my situation you may beable to pick up bits that will help you with yours. I understand completely with what you are feeling, total and utter frustration and sheer exhaustion and with no hope of anything ever getting any better!! men you could really just shake them to get some sence into them! we as a couple were in the same position as you and for sooo long, it ends up feeling like you cannot remember if anything was ever ok!? every conversation just turns into a shouting match of who is the loudest and threats of leaving and this is it, cant take it anymore etc... followed by days of no communication at all. nothing ever being resolved, and this just goes around in cycles feeling that the only way everything can be calm and ok, is to stay away from one another, the frustration of this builds to another all out battle and the cycle begins again! sound familiar?

 

the reasons we were there were different to yours. Now what you are hearing above is developed over such a long time, and my two children now are 9 and 14! and i remember feeling as you did when mine were both small, so i am hoping you can get this sorted way before we did. The first thing you need to ask is, do you love him? you obviously want to be happy, would you prefer to be happy with or without him? i am getting the feeling from what you are writing that you would prefer to be happy with him, but just dont feel that it is possible. Well once you no what you want, you make it happen. When a man is depressed/anxious he also feels ashamed, he feels he is meant to have the stiff upper lip and get on with it, be the strong one, cant rely on any one as that is a sign of weakness etc... etc....

 

until he deals with himself and gets himself to an ok place, he cant even contemplate a family life, and married life he is too consummed within himself, unable to get out on his own issues, but to ashamed embarrassed to ask for help, especially from the experts, how would that look. (when i was depressed i could not even answer the phone, let alone go out socially!)

 

My advice for what it is worth, is to have your daughter? go to your parents, and have the house free for the two of you. Sit him down, and tell him, in a calm slow voice, possible make a meal so not all the attention is fully on him, and give him time to take in what you are saying and consider, do not have any alcohol, and possible put on some calming aromathearpy oils, such as bergamot and clary sage, to set a calm conducive environment.

 

a) how you love him

b) what you wish for him (for him to be ok)

c) what you wish for yourself ( a loving family life, his involvement, hugs etc... whatever)

d) what you wish for your daughter...............

 

Then tell him that things can not, and will not carry on as they have, explain how it makes you feel sad unhappy etc...

 

and that there are two routes you can go down, be clear that one of the routes, will be happening, also explain that he should be wanting to do this for himself, but if not himself, for you, and then if not for you then for your daughter.

 

1) the positive route ....Then go down the route of how you think this could happen, firstly he needs to be ok, so first port of call the doctors, say you will go with him, explain to him how strong someone has to be to admit when they need help and to go and get it, that it is the opposite of weak, and how him doing this will make you feel, so happy, glad in your heart etc.. that you could be on the first step to recovery as a family

 

Then say when he is feeling stronger more positive you would like to do counselling, and in the mean time you will start to go on your own. when you do go into counselling, make sure you are clear, that this is not about deciding whether you should stay together, that you already no you want to stay together and this is about finding away to do that, to getting back to the positives that you saw in each other when you first met.

 

or....

 

 

2) the negative route (you need to say this route for you is not what you want, but if he is not able to choose route 1 you are left with no choice) that you seperate, but go into detail of what this means, interms of housing, time with daughter, if he meets someone else in the future and having issues of one child by one mother and possible another by another etc etc... paint a bad awful picture!!

 

Tell him that he has 2 days to consider all this, and at a certain time, you require a decision from him, of which route he would like to go down, let him feel in control. But once he has made the decision that you require him to sign a contract saying he will do this, and you sign to, you need to ask him if there is anything that he needs from you, and also put this in the contract, and both of you sign as a symbol that you are both wanting a better future and are willing to do whatever is required to get it.

 

We have been to counselling, but it took our daughter to be ill, for it too happen, for him to come to his sences, my daughter was diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome, and as such she gets very tired extreme pain very anxious and emotional, in order for her to be ok, she had be in a calm environment, (dont believe for a second, that an environment with no communication between parents is calm, children pick up on everything) so she had nothing to worry or be anxious about, as every emotion uses up energy she does not have and then she gets extreme pain, as her muscles are unable to work as no energy.

 

as part of her treatment, we were put into counselling, and as awful as it sounds, are daughters illness ended up being the best thing that ever happened to us, it is amazing what parents will do for there children. For along time i blamed myself for my daughters illness feeling that we made it happen, however i now no this to not be the case, but were we making it worse yes definitely. I could hug are counsellor for what she has done for us, it took over 18 months of seeing her every month, it is not a quick process, and you will not come out each time feeling positive, i spent alot of the time crying in there, but she was so clever in how she brings out the best in each of you, and by applying her techniques it really over time works!! we are now the happiest i can ever remember to be and have a great positive future together, we went to australia for our 40th's beth was much better over there and we now intend to move there and for the first time in forever, we are both on the same page and both have the same goal, and it feels great.

 

Remember if there seems like there is no light at the end of the tunnel, then bloody well march down there and turn it on yourself!! you can do anything you put your mind to, i am not saying it will be easy, it wont there will be heartache and tears, but the end result however far off will be worth it, just stay focused on what you want.

 

If you need to show him this, show him how it is not just him, my husband was also depressed ( he lost his job) and so many couples can be in this position, but it is the strong ones that look and search for the route out. you can do this. you take control of your life and future, do not let it control you.

 

I wish you all the luck in the world, and if you ever need to speak just contact me, because believe me i know exactly how you are feeling.

 

wendy xxxxx

[Surf N Turf]

Hi Whichway, it's good to see you back on the forum. I was wondering how things were going for you. I have no great answers so I can only send you my best wishes. I also have nearest and dearest struggling with anxiety and depression but the difference being that they sought help and tried to reduce the impact on those around them. It doesn't found like your hubby is able to do that right now. Without the hope of that, I'd be struggling in your shoes too. International moves are brutal and you've had two in a relatively short space in time. I hope that once the dust has settled he becomes more open to accepting help and the need for some things to change.

[whichway1]

Wow!! What great advice and support. You know I have visited other forums briefly like forums on PND, depression and anxiety and of all of them PIO still comes up best!!

 

It is amazing to hear some stories of how long people stay in unhappy relationships . Relationships that could be fixed with some help. Wendy, thanks for all that advice and that story. I am definitely going to have a think about it and get a plan in action. Unfortunately lately I have been focusing more on the negative route, and he sees it as a threat but it really isn't I feel it is a reality and haven't been able to see another course. Either that or we both live unhappily together when we could be happy on our own. I will definitely try for a little longer, until I can probably take no more as the only one who makes effort. Sometimes I feel like I do not want to be with him, but it is so hard to know the truth when the relationship is rubbish. Like I say I will def give it some thought and make a plan.

 

I have discovered though, That in these circumstances, it seems that the British govt does not automatically chuck people out. They give each case an consideration and exceptions can be made in compassionate circumstances, which I think a child together would be one. the thing is we have been together for 7 years and we only got married 6 months ago (embarrassing) I feel like we should not have done that and somehow this has worsened our issues. 6 months is such a short time for this to deteriorate so much. Maybe before I could handle his ways because somewhere deep down I thought I could just leave but now I feel permanently stuck.

 

Once again thanks folks x x

 

x x

[fizzybangs]

You seem to know yourself well enough and I respect your honesty. It is true that you are not helping him with him with his anxieties and are probably exacerbating his problems with your frustration, so accept that you won't change him as he is the only person who can do that. If you cannot accept who he is and respect him for who he is, then for both your sakes it is probably time to move on. As everyone else is saying, you need to get yourself sorted first - take control of YOUR life, for the sake of your child. One happy parent is better than two miserable ones. Look at your support network too - who do you have around you that you love and trust because it is not easy to be a single parent at times which is all the more reason for you to get stronger and to seek the help you need to clarify your thoughts. You are already contemplating leaving him and therefore are asking others to ratify your thoughts. First you really do need to find out what it is that you want that is realistic and it is not realistic to expect him to change.

[JoandJon]

Hi Whichway,

 

** big hugs **

 

I think you've had some great advice from people, and you're looking for solutions - which is great

 

I love the idea of starting counselling by yourself and then inviting him to join you when (or if) it feels right. The counsellor will have definitely encountered the 'He doesn't want to come' problem before and will probably have some techniques to help

 

I wonder (and this really is just me wondering, might be totally wrong - only you will know! I'm not a shrink) if he might be more willing to come along to 'your' sessions to help 'you' instead of calling it 'our' sessions.

 

I have NFI if my advice is any good or not - I'm definitely a physics boffin not psych !

[chickibabes]

Hey,

 

I am sorry to hear about your problems, and wish you well in whatever path you decide to go down.

 

I think you have been given some good advice from people here but only you can decide which advice or action to take.

 

Relationships are all about teamwork at the end of the day, and communication is key. The best thing you can do is talk to each other, either alone or through a counsellor. And remember, that although he might know how you feel at the end of the day about how his actions, moods etc are affecting your children, you and your relationship as a whole, only he can change himself, and to do this, he has to want to change himself.

 

People can only usually change or do something about something if they actually admit that they have a problem in the first place, otherwise they are in denial. I am only a nurse and by no means a psychologist or expert or anything but from personal experience with family, this has been the case, otherwise you may as well bang your head against a brick wall.

 

It would probably be a lot easier for you to make a decision about your future too if there was only you to consider and children weren't involved, but obviously their needs have to be taken into consideration too.

 

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

 

Danielle xxx

 

Again, I fully fully agree. He has had a **** time and I do believe this is a thing he has long been experiencing. I know I am being horrible, but he will not take any action. At one point, years ago he got prescribed some venlafaxine but he wouldn't take it for more than a week and as far as he was concerned the issue was over. I actually feel like perhaps we need to split for a while for him to realise that this is ruining us.

 

Sometimes, I think I don't mind us living entirely separate lives and most of the time I am fine with that, as is he. But every now and then I would have liked a bit of normality. I suppose as he is 'happy' or at least content with sitting in the house while we do things then I should let him be so. It was his idea to go to Oz which we did and it all went so bad because he wanted to spend his life watching tellie. 5 years I wasted doing that when he could have done that just as easy here in the UK and now I am blaming him for doing just what I kept saying he could do here!

[Guest Bazinga]

I think you've had some great advice but only you know you. Get counselling for you. Leave your husband. He can get permission to stay in the country because you have a child. However, where was the child born? How long has she spent in both countries? He could take you to court to get permission to take her back to oz but right now he can't remove her from the UK without your permission like others have said.