Guest241083

...........children.....? ............innocents.......caught up in something they cannot help...... ............there are lots of Australian children needing help.....I agree .............but these children also deserve some compassion...... ..............to be treated as we would treat any other child......... ..............would you keep all the hungry....the desperate........the frightened behind bars..... ..............I hope not.....tink X

..........I hope you find what you need..... ..........though sometimes circumstances rule our choices.....for a time... ........and all we can do is search for the good in where we are........ ..........I spent over 20 years north of Brisbane and am now in the UK..... .......... With a bit of jiggery pokery........I hope to stay.... ..........because sometimes you just have to do what makes .....you.....happy....... .............I wish you the best of luck...... ...........but it's your journey....... ...........your choice...... .............and your life will depend on how you live it...... ...........the where sometimes just has to be secondary.....for a while at least...... .............look for the joy...... ...........and follow your heart............tink X

......this dilemma is a constant question for any one who moves..... .......area to area.....country to country..... ........again I say consider your needs and wants...... ........where gives you most..... ........but IMO it's not so much the place.....it's where your at in life....your mind set.... ........some will fit in were ever they go.... .........others struggle.... .........to move away from ...."home" .........means letting go of the safety net......leaving the support of the ..known.... .........and stepping out with sometimes nothing more than determination and hope.... .........some then cut ties.....look back through dark glasses.... ..........others cling.......and their specs are rose tinted...... ..........it's not about comparing countries ,cities............ ..........the place won't matter if your not content with what you have...... ..........each place has its merits.....it's faults..... ...........and often it's not till you live there.....experience life..... ...........and even then time changes your perceptions......your needs..... ...........too often we look for......the dream.....utopia..... ...........when in all honesty it's inside us if we're ever going to find it..... ...........so OP.......weigh up what you have........look at what you can get..... ...........go with determination......and realise..... ...........there is no answer...... ............only choice..... ............choose for which you perceive to fill your needs......go with joy....... .............and remember each and every place / experience is the book of your life..... .............it's up to you how it will read at the end...... .............the best of luck to you and yours......tink X

.......worth a read.......IMO....... ....ASYLUM SEEKERS10 Jul 2014 Confronting The Awful Truth About Our Politics On Asylum Seekers By Ben Eltham Keywords: scott morrisonben elthamasylum seekerselizabeth o'shea As the legal standoff continues, Ben Eltham examines the political implications of the Sri Lankan asylum seeker crisis. On Tuesday, I looked at how Australia had reached such a dismaying situation. Today, I want to examine why. War, repression, chaos and poverty have ever been the cause of people on the move. The current international architecture of refugee law, framed by the Refugee Convention, arose in the aftermath of the vast mass migrations that followed the Second World War. The refugee flows we see today are no different in quality, and certainly less in quantity than those experienced globally 60 years ago. The Syrian civil war, for example, has seen millions flee to neighbouring Jordan. In central America, the collapse of internal security in Honduras and Guatemala is spurring similar refugee flows north. And in our own region, war and insurgency in Sri Lanka and Afghanistan have similarly spurred large numbers to leave their homelands seeking safety. Writing in Overland, Elizabeth O’Shea notes the uncomfortable parallels between the boats that Australia now refuse, to the refugees fleeing Nazi Germany in the 1930s and 1940s. “The Refugee Convention originated from the plight of the MS St Louis, a German transatlantic liner that set sail from Hamburg, Germany, for Havana, Cuba in 1939,” O’Shea reminds us. The St Louis carried mainly Jewish passengers fleeing the Nazi regime; the Cuban and US governments both refused to accept most of them as refugees. Eventually, the St Louis was forced to sail back to Europe, where a significant proportion later perished in the Holocaust. That’s worth remembering as we struggle to understand the current crisis. One way to do so is to look at the way certain sections of Australia’s public, media and political classes have reacted to the asylum seeker issue, and what that means for the future. Reaction to the latest cruelty by the Australian government against asylum seekers on the high seas falls into roughly three categories. The first is outrage. For those motivated by empathy and generosity towards innocent people fleeing persecution, the actions of the Australian government are nothing short of state-sponsored torture. This is the position of much of the liberal left, including many lawyers and human rights activists. A large group of lawyers signed a letter this week stating that Operation Sovereign Borders “clearly violates international law”. For those who lament the hard-heartedness of the current system, recent developments have been in equal parts depressing and affronting. The second kind of reaction is befuddlement. This is essentially Labor’s position, as it twists and squirms in response to the obvious truth that the Rudd and Gillard governments laid the groundwork for the oppression we’re now seeing. Watching Labor frontbenchers like Richard Marles and Tanya Plibersek in recent days has been a dispiriting affair. Trapped in the contradictions of its own brutal policies, Labor is trying to maintain the fiction of holding the government to account, even while it pursues policies only slightly worse than those of the Coalition. Labor in opposition is only just managing to keep up appearances, as it simultaneously argues that the government has been secretive and brutal, even while reiterating its commitment to mandatory detention, offshore processing, Manus Island and all the rest. The third reaction is satisfaction. This, roughly, describes the Coalition’s position, and indeed much of the voting public. For those hostile to immigration itself, or at any rate the kind of immigration which brings people we don’t like to our shores in ways we don’t approve of, current developments are simply a matter of just desserts. Send them back, the faster the better. You can find this view in any focus group or social media forum – even in the comments section of New Matilda. As with other emotive issues like climate change, no cries of anguish or patient explanations of the facts will budge ingrained prejudice or shift self-satisfied confirmation bias. For the xenophobes and the political hard-heads, the issue is the simple: deterrence will work. It’s the familiar transmogrification of guilt into blame. This is why both major parties have clung so tightly to the justification of saving lives at sea. Confronted with the dreadful death toll of those drowning on the way to Australia, the psychological response has been to blame the people smugglers, and by extension, anyone who advocates for a humane response. Such nostrums fit well with the conservative tendency to divide the world into in-groups and out-groups, and to circle the wagons against perceived threats. They also play well with the process argument, which makes the entirely flawed argument that seaborne asylum seekers are jumping the queue. And, of course, there’s the racism. When politicians talk about “controlling borders” and the need for an “orderly” immigration process, they are in fact dog-whistling to those who fear the unregulated invasion of teeming Asian masses. It’s a fear as old as White Australia itself. Parsed in this way, we can see why asylum seekers are such a divisive, and simultaneously insoluble political issue. While it is probably true that harsh policies towards asylum seekers are far from the electoral trump card they are often portrayed, you can hardly point to a deep reservoir of sympathy and popular support for those travelling to Australia by boat. As long as the satisfied and the befuddled outnumber the outraged by a fair margin, it seems clear that there will be little popular will to restore a more liberal and generous system for those seeking refuge on our shores. As a result, Australia is currently at risk of sacrificing many of the hard-won liberal freedoms that so many of us take for granted. It’s not just repression of those travelling here by boat. The ongoing brutality of the current system is slowly corrupting the executive as well, as the government seeks ever more inventive ways to circumvent the rule of law. The very fact that we are only finding out key facts about the current situation via a High Court injunction tells you just how seriously key values of democratic scrutiny and accountability have already been compromised. There are lessons here for all of us, if we care. Australian progressives must confront the uncomfortable reality that it was the Australian Labor Party – the only party of the centre-left capable of forming government – that put in place much of the architecture of the current brutality. Some Labor supporters will inevitably leak to the Greens over the issue. But the hard truth remains that many ALP voters applaud tough measures on asylum seekers. The progressives who support asylum seekers remain a small minority. No diatribes about the “political classes” can conceal this fact. For Australian liberals of the “small l” variety – if there are any left worthy of the name – the current impasse must also confront. The values of liberalism – individual freedom, the rule of law, and the enterprise of individuals - are precisely what we are denying asylum seekers, openly and blatantly. We’ve long known there aren’t many liberals in the Liberal Party. Nothing explains better the emptiness of the freedom loving rhetoric of groups such as the Institute of Public Affairs than their shameful silence over the illegal incarceration of innocents seeking a better life. Tim Wilson, Commissioner for Freedom: where are you now? For conservatives, the satisfaction of “solving” the asylum seeker problem may prove fleeting. This issue will go on to cause the Coalition endless trouble. It won’t be a vote winner in 2016. Asylum seekers are a stain on this government, just as on the last government, and soon there will be a horrible tragedy that will make even hardliners appalled. Moreover, the brutality that the government seems to revel in risks highlighting its other policies of brutality closer to home. If voters start to connect the dots between a government monstering vulnerable asylum seekers, and a government monstering vulnerable middle Australia, it may find the issue blowing back in a most uncomfortable manner. Nor have the boats actually stopped. The current legal showdown in the High Court is all about that fact: a direct consequence of the government’s desperation to prevent a boat arriving at Christmas Island, thereby disproving Scott Morrison’s empty boast that he is the boat stopper. If Morrison thinks he is winning the politics of this issue, he is sadly mistaken. Rather than a pathway to higher glory in the conservative cause, the most likely outcome for Scott Morrison is further scandal, followed by an ignominious reshuffle. Immigration is the graveyard of ministers; only Morrison’s hubris prevents him from realising this. Asylum seekers are a complex, multifaceted and hugely difficult issue. As I argued two years ago, there is no easy solution or quick political fix that can “solve” the asylum seeker problem. In fact, it can’t be solved.

.........I too have followed this thread......... .........and have tried to read as much ,from as many different sources.......to gain an understanding..... .........so please forgive me if you recognise a phrase......thought......idea..... ........it's one that must of stuck in my mind......! .......the sad plight of the asylum seeker....... .......the desperate situation they are put in..... .......fleeing persecution...... .........and finding a life of detention.......uncertainty.......and ultimately despair...... .........Australia has much to be ashamed if in its treatment of the vulnerable people that risk so much...... .........it is in breach of human rights..... ..........to not be able to see the end ......the finish of your term in detention......must and does have negative mental consequences.....! ........children growing up......locked behind fences.......! ..........to of escaped one life of horror.........to experience another....... .........perhaps we all need to pop our heads above the parapet....... .........and say no.....to the treatment of our fellow man....... ........because there but for the grace of..... ..........do as you would be done by...... ..........do no harm...... ...........all qualities we teach our children.....live by...... ...........and IMO......it should encompass all....... ...........these are people.....families......children....... ............just like us.....and ours.......tink X

.......bump......! .......welcome.....hopefully some Gold Coast residents will see your post..... .......meet up .com is a useful site...... ........best of luck.....tink x

......bump.....and welcome.....! ......hopefully some young mums near you will see this ..... .......the best of luck to you and yours......tink X

........so often this kind of ...reporting is used to fuel hatred..... ........how dare these refugees asylum seekers challenge our views.... ........they should be cowed,.... .........grateful for any thing thrown at them,.... .........in date or not.....! .........good grief are they not desperate..... ..........and they own an iPhone.... ..........they dont have a home......clothes....a place to feel safe..... ...........but an iPhone.... ............perhaps to acess news...? ............tide times....? ............or face book....? ............you choose......not the gutter press....!

.......how sad......! ........when the truth is.......Poor countries host vastly more displaced people than wealthier ones. While anti-refugee sentiment is heard loudest in industrialised countries, developing nations host 80 per cent of the world’s refugees.” .........no room....?

.........and there are reasons why they choose to travel.....safety.....sanctuary.....freedom from persecution.....! ....Although the Refugee Convention says they must come directly from a territory where their life or freedom is threatened (as opposed to ‘skipping through’ a country like Indonesia), the 2001 Geneva Expert Round Table organised by the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees concluded that: Refugees are not required to have come directly from territories where their life or freedom was threatened… Article 31(1) was intended to apply, and has been interpreted to apply, to persons who have briefly transited other countries or who are unable to find effective protection in the first country or countries to which they flee.” (p.2, 10b, 10c)

.........just a thought...... ..........but could perhaps politicians be useing the asylum seekers as a scapegoat for our economic insecurity....? ...........for the few......compared to migrants that do come and stay ...... ...........what impact do they really have on the economy,....? ............we are ..fed......by political tabloid fodder ....the stealing our jobs.....taking extra centre link ....... ..............but what of those who go on to be assets....? ................well documented and news worthy....? .................not usually.......just the assumption they are a economic strain..... .................economic failings nothing to do with poor political decision......... ....................must be all these asylum seekers.....! ............surely empathy .....sympathy......there but for the grace of god..... ............should come into play for the ordinary australian,.... .............as migrants we ....cherry picked Australia...... ...............shouldn't we be honoured others too think the same..... ................taken from....http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/01/15/comment-why-do-we-hate-asylum-seekers ..............a view I share......tink x

........I will send you a message later today........ ........because your story is/was.......mine......... ........and I would like to share with you,.,.........achievements......failures.......and thoughts of where I am now......!

........it ends when we do something....... ........all to easy to just use supermarkets..... ........accept that the money borrowed ........ .........has accrued extra interest due to circumstances out of our control........ .........if we don't do something....... .........we will loose the privilege of choice......IMO.... ........just to add ...... ..........banks are controlling the world we live in...... ...........often manipulating.......by....controlling ..........businesses across the country by unnecessarily engineering a default to move the business out of local management and into their turnaround divisions, generating revenue through fees, increased margins and devalued assets. ..........then once in this part of the bank, the business is trapped with no ability to move or opportunity to trade out of the position – ...............they are forced to stand by and watch anr otherwise successful business be sunk by the decisions of the bank. ..............The bank extracts maximum revenue from the business, beyond what can be considered reasonable and to such an extent that it is the key contributing factor to the business’ financial deterioration...........another small business bites the dust......!

.......sorry PC but its this attitude that lets it continue..... ........until people vote with their feet.... ........use the small shops..... ........farmers markets...... ........don't use credit....... ........we will continue to be ripped off..........

...........if you don't have your health...... ...........living anywhere is challenging....... ...........and if your wife is going to need some support.....( and I sincerely hope she's ok) ............perhaps moving across the world is not going to be a good idea..... .............your life quality......support........family and close friends.... ..............are going to be important in times of illness and stress.......ime... ...............sort out her health...... ................and the best of luck with the journey you choose...........tink x

.......I agree PC......... .......it was more the fact that ...' Money lending'......has become big business..... ........credit cards a way of life... ........I don't have one......and find being able to buy something's difficult.... ........and it's this.....I have issues with...... .........to be caught in the web of finance.....increasing interest rates..... .........on an amount that initially was manageable.... .........can all to easy become financially crippling.......... .........though.....needs....and wants......need identifying,,,,,,,IMO....tink x .......but to the OP.......... ........I hope you find your answer and commend you on your sense of fair play........

........since perceptions of what's honest and what isn't have widened........ ........it's a sad state of affairs...... .........but society has become selfish..... .........how long do some have to turn the other cheek.... ...........let others ride roughshod over situations taken out if their control....... ............I can see why some would just leave the debt and go......tbh..... ..............but each and every circumstance is personal to that person...........

........not melodramatic...... ........becoming aware maybe......? .......though I'm sure your hernia is soon fixable.............tink x

.......bump... .........got some PIO'ers near lismore should be able to help........best of luck........tink x