The Golden Rules Of Australia

[fleabo]

Australia is a great country that has its fair share of bigots.

 

Scotland is a great country that has its fair share of bigots.

 

England is a great country that has its fair share of bigots.

 

It sucks when you have a bad experience. Good luck to you in your future endeavours.

[Guest guest36762]

Australia is a great country that has its fair share of bigots.

 

Scotland is a great country that has its fair share of bigots.

 

England is a great country that has its fair share of bigots.

 

It sucks when you have a bad experience. Good luck to you in your future endeavours.

 

you forgot IN ZID

.....a rather mediocre country with its fair share of bigots?

[Guest guest30038]

its Poms who have been the most hated immgrant over the years, only recently surpassed in some places by muslems and some Africans.

 

Is that your opinion or fact?

 

kev

[Guest guest30038]

For some it works and for some it doesn't, it's all very well to wax lyrical about how wonderful Australia and Australians are but the same doesn't apply to everyone.

 

Exactly. For those who don't wax lyrical, and give their opinions (accuse Aussies [as a nation] of racism and bias) based only on their experience, is misleading to those who may not experience the same when they get here.

 

kev

[Skani]

It appears that the Poms are not being tolerated in most places, what do you think the solution could be Skani please:huh:

 

It's obvious - they should all come and live in Tasmania :biggrin:

They'd have 4 seasons and autumn leaves, frost and fog, ice and snow, Scottish mizzle, log fires in pubs, jonquils and daffodils, pork pies, Scotch eggs, hawthorn hedges and so many other things they say don't exist in Australia. There's even a Lincolnshire windmill grinding flour for the bakery below in Oatlands. Oh - and so many other English accents, no one would even notice :cute:

[Guest siamsusie]

Im happy for you. However my, and my wifes, along with many others experiences are real, neither of us has ever been made to feel welcome or at home, especialy in the work place, tollerated at best. Neither of us is aggressive or rude nor do we complain about the land of Oz to anyone, regardless of the constant bombardment of anti pom sentiment. Tell me, do you have a dutch accent?. Remember its Poms who have been the most hated immgrant over the years, only recently surpassed in some places by muslems and some Africans. Also remember you are hitched to an Oz which is of great benefit socially and adds qudos when applying for a job etc.

 

Hi Steve,

 

Ok.... Its miserable when you encounter this sort of attitude, and my sympathies! I really dont know in what field you are /were working in and which state.

I only have my own experiences to go on Steve, apologies to repeat the same old.....

but my husband is an Electrician/Sparky Tech on the railways, originally working in Karratha for 25 yrs and seconded to KL at present, but the Poms he works with are well respected and form a very strong unity in the working environment. Hand on heart there is absolutely no animosity whatsoever, which did rather surprise me, because basically they are all rather hard headed "Bush Men" working in 45+ on the railways in the desert!

I do however, sense some racism ... namely with Asians who would be on 457's . There is a resentment there I feel, and its understandable if the native Aussie finds it hard to extract employment for him or a trade for his son/daughter.

Many Australians are unaware of the "immigration process" , they would be ignorant of the fact that, that Asian might be subjected to lower wages, impossible working conditions etc all in aid of having to send monies home for family!

My husband is Tasmanian and it goes without saying the butt of many a joke :SLEEP:, but then so are the Poms, the Kiwis, the Slavs etc etc, but I do see comradeship which is commendable.

 

No being married to an Australian didnt score me any brownie points, my employment was gained on my own merits, dutch accent or whatever...but in Van Diemen's land the accent is not uncommon...

Socially my contacts are from far and wide, and luckily my Australian friends as is my husband are broad minded and well travelled which might make a difference...

 

Maybe I am just lucky who knows......:wubclub:

 

 

NB Edited to add, and this is not to be taken personally Steve, you ( I am sure ) as I have have seen some atrocious immigrants /tourists in our lifetime, total embarrassments and unfortunately in many cases.... peoples memories are long and judegmental... it can take time to prove yourself.

[fleabo]

you forgot IN ZID

.....a rather mediocre country with its fair share of bigots?

 

Never been there so I will refrain from commenting.

[Skani]

Anything else:wubclub:seriously I firmly believe that there are a section of the population that shouldnt travel!

 

Reminds me of a quote from Grumpy Old Men: The trouble with mass travel is that the masses travel:wink:

[Guest siamsusie]

It's obvious - they should all come and live in Tasmania :biggrin:

They'd have 4 seasons and autumn leaves, frost and fog, ice and snow, Scottish mizzle, log fires in pubs, jonquils and daffodils, pork pies, Scotch eggs, hawthorn hedges and so many other things they say don't exist in Australia. There's even a Lincolnshire windmill grinding flour for the bakery below in Oatlands. Oh - and so many other English accents, no one would even notice :cute:

 

No No No! you cant subject them to Tasmania! Brings back memories of the Port Arthur Penal Colonies:huh:

[Guest siamsusie]

Reminds me of a quote from Grumpy Old Men: The trouble with mass travel is that the masses travel:wink:

 

:notworthy: Irony!

[Skani]

you forgot IN ZID

.....a rather mediocre country with its fair share of bigots?

 

It's actually a stunning country with wonderful, funny people.

Sorry if others don't get the humour.

I wonder if Dame Vera Lynn regrets having migrated to a mediocre country?

[Guest guest36762]

It's actually a stunning country with wonderful, funny people.

Sorry if others don't get the humour.

I wonder if Dame Vera Lynn regrets having migrated to a mediocre country?

 

I certainly don't get your humour

did DVL go to INZID?

[RobandCatherine]

why 'fresh air' when someone says something positive about Australia on MBTTUK?

I admit it beats the cliquey exchanges............

 

 

Apologies for still being positive but I have seen none of the negative behavior that is being described on here, I'm not saying that Australia is better or worse than the UK either - both have advantages & dis-advantages for different reasons and at the end of the day if it doesn't work out I'll ship back & put it down to experience, but it will be down to me not settling here- not due to Australians, Kiwis, Muslims or Alf Garnett.

 

This forum is no doubt a fantastic aid when making the move to Aus but I'm guessing that the ones who are happy & just getting on with it stop coming on whilst those it isn't working out for ( or left years ago ? ) hang around to "prevent" others making the same mistakes.

 

For some it will be ok & others not - at least you had a go, unfortunately though its work, bills & mortgage wherever you live.:SLEEP:

[Guest PinkyDog]

I have to agree somewhat with the original poster. It does seem that if you have a pomie accent that you will be regarded as somewhat second class and that your opionion is also somewhat irrellevant. As for getting jobs, my inlaws are constantly barking about how they cant get enough people to do the work (ones an electrician and another runs a line in a steel mill) and yet numerous times I have put my self forward (I have UK elec quals) it seems that unless its Ozzie experience((as an assistant not a qualified electrician), it is some how not up to scratch and only an Ozzie could possibly learn the rules. Dito the steel mill, they currently need operators but once again, it would be more than my BIL's job is worth to put forward a pom for the job.. and this is not a reflection of my attitude, personality or abillities, my sister finaly addimited that it would be an embarresment to her husband (an Oz of course) in the workplace to be associated with a pom, amazing as he is married to one, but then again she doesnt have the accent. My wife found it very difficult some years ago when she first arrived and they pointed out to her that on account of not having worked in $$$ and cents she wouldnt be able to understand Australian accounts. This of course was pure nonsense, they really didnt like poms stealing their jobs. This was during a recession and I think this is where potential problems might be lurking for those brits currently riding high in Aus, when things get tough, you will find it to be a very different country with very different attitudes. In the UK pepole by and large dont blame the Poles for taking their jobs, they blame the government, In Austraila they will blame each and every pom for ever turning up here, both myself and my wife have been through this in the 90's recession.

 

 

I have been following this thread with interest. I moved here in July 2010 and have since found it very difficult to secure employment, even though I have what many recruiters have said to me was very good experience. BTW more than 80% of recruiters are pommies!!! So if you can't get a job through a recruiter - perhaps need to look closer to your own backyard? It came down to a few things - not sure how true - but seemed to be the feedback I get - so I am summarising it here (1) my qualification is not recognised (need to do a conversion) (2) senior positions are very limited (3) employers are conservative - they really only want people with Aussie experience. (4) age - whilst not written - matters. Please any feedback would be useful - particularly any suggestions would be welcomed.

 

I did secure a short contracting work but this was from an immigrant who said he was willing to give people a fair go. So still tolerable for now - just.

 

The other thing I found is people here are very motivated by money, looks etc - its a bit similar to American culture - so if you are not used to this way of doing business then it is not for you. Not surprising - just turn on the tele - what programmes are on? Also over the last few years the booming economy and the flood of cashed up migrants from Asia have cultivated a perception that migrants are good for cash - nothing else. I met a few Chinese migrants who paid cash for their properties (and these are in the millions...) but could not find any decent employment.

 

Anyway any comments gratefully received.

[fleabo]

(3) employers are conservative - they really only want people with Aussie experience.

 

You made some interesting points particularly this one which I agree with. Employers here are quite conservative - often you get jobs via personal contacts. Human nature - would you rather employ someone you knew (or was recommended) or a stranger.

 

Would an Aussie firm rather employ an Aussie or a migrant (assume both meet the person specification and essential criteria).

 

Would an English firm employ an Aussie or an English person (assume both meet the person specification and essential criteria).

 

Good luck in your search.

[Steve99]

Is that your opinion or fact?

 

kev

Fact. You just have to go back pre the 1980's in particular. In your face aggression and rudness. Even Germans who had fought us in the war then immigrated were considered superior immigrants. A prevellent saying back in the 'good old days' was 'the only good pom is a dead pom'. This is how it was and an element of that still exists.

[Guest guest30038]

Fact. You just have to go back pre the 1980's in particular. In your face aggression and rudness. Even Germans who had fought us in the war then immigrated were considered superior immigrants. A prevellent saying back in the 'good old days' was 'the only good pom is a dead pom'. This is how it was and an element of that still exists.

 

"Fact" should have it's basis in research and conclusion, not anecdotal comments from those, who because of their experiences, consider it to be the experience of others and therfore the norm. Have you any research and conclusion to offer to back up your "facts"?

 

kev

[Steve99]

I have been following this thread with interest. I moved here in July 2010 and have since found it very difficult to secure employment, even though I have what many recruiters have said to me was very good experience. BTW more than 80% of recruiters are pommies!!! So if you can't get a job through a recruiter - perhaps need to look closer to your own backyard? It came down to a few things - not sure how true - but seemed to be the feedback I get - so I am summarising it here (1) my qualification is not recognised (need to do a conversion) (2) senior positions are very limited (3) employers are conservative - they really only want people with Aussie experience. (4) age - whilst not written - matters. Please any feedback would be useful - particularly any suggestions would be welcomed.

 

I did secure a short contracting work but this was from an immigrant who said he was willing to give people a fair go. So still tolerable for now - just.

 

The other thing I found is people here are very motivated by money, looks etc - its a bit similar to American culture - so if you are not used to this way of doing business then it is not for you. Not surprising - just turn on the tele - what programmes are on? Also over the last few years the booming economy and the flood of cashed up migrants from Asia have cultivated a perception that migrants are good for cash - nothing else. I met a few Chinese migrants who paid cash for their properties (and these are in the millions...) but could not find any decent employment.

 

Anyway any comments gratefully received.

 

A fair view of how it is. My particualar problems are somewhat more difficult right now, for a start I am now over 50, been out of work for more than 2 years (apart from a few house painting jobs Ive done) have no references at all on account of my last 2 companies in the UK have effectly shut down and gone. And my IT qualifications require around $50,000 worth of courses to upgrade, or at least a solid year of study at home. All of these issues are in effect 'crimes' as far as potential employers go, but even low level jobs require youth, experience and references. Ultimately will have to be self employed of course in some form or other.

(and can you believe I have been knocked back for 2 volunteer charity positions on account of not having work references)

As my nephew said, 'who would let thier business fall apart by employing and old cnt like you' .. cheeky monkey.

[Steve99]

"Fact" should have it's basis in research and conclusion, not anecdotal comments from those, who because of their experiences, consider it to be the experience of others and therfore the norm. Have you any research and conclusion to offer to base up your "facts"?

 

kev

Just personal experience, they didnt and still dont do statistics on such subjects. When you and your family are verbaly and sometimes physicaly assulted by someone every day for the stated reason of being a 'pom' then you can be sure it was at the time a pretty major aspect of the national psyche, dont you think?

You dont have to like what Im saying but it is true as many immigrants from the old days will say if you ever meet them. Have you the stats to prove otherwise?

[Guest guest30038]

Just personal experience, they didnt and still dont do statistics on such subjects. When you and your family are verbaly and sometimes physicaly assulted by someone every day for the stated reason of being a 'pom' then you can be sure it was at the time a pretty major aspect of the national psyche, dont you think?

You dont have to like what Im saying but it is true as many immigrants from the old days will say if you ever meet them. Have you the stats to prove otherwise?

 

No I haven't, which is why I don't make sweeping generalisations about a whole race just because I have experienced something. A "national psyche" as you put it can only be affirmed, if an experience of the whole (race) is (honestly - born of fact) attributable to the actions of a whole (other) race.

 

kev

[Guest guest30038]

A fair view of how it is. My particualar problems are somewhat more difficult right now, for a start I am now over 50, been out of work for more than 2 years (apart from a few house painting jobs Ive done) have no references at all on account of my last 2 companies in the UK have effectly shut down and gone. And my IT qualifications require around $50,000 worth of courses to upgrade, or at least a solid year of study at home. All of these issues are in effect 'crimes' as far as potential employers go, but even low level jobs require youth, experience and references. Ultimately will have to be self employed of course in some form or other.

(and can you believe I have been knocked back for 2 volunteer charity positions on account of not having work references)

 

 

Yes, I can. Would you employ someone without references? Could your "image" of prospective Australian employers be blighted by the fact that you fail to meet their criteria and their actions are not one of racism/bigotry/bias/nepotism etc but based on sound business practice?

 

kev

[Steve99]

No I haven't, which is why I don't make sweeping generalisations about a whole race just because I have experienced something. A "national psyche" as you put it can only be affirmed, if an experience of the whole (race) is (honestly - born of fact) attributable to the actions of a whole (other) race.

 

kev

 

Obviously Ive trodden on a nerve somewhere but I am only speaking the truth. The old days, eg pre the 1980's were horrendous for many immigrants, the attitudes prevelent at that time were agressive and negative in every possible way, this is a fact. You may not like it but as stated it is a fact. Bye bye

[Steve99]

Yes, I can. Would you employ someone without references? Could your "image" of prospective Australian employers be blighted by the fact that you fail to meet their criteria and their actions are not one of racism/bigotry/bias/nepotism etc but based on sound business practice?

 

kev

 

2 years ago, I had recent expericence and references, things have changed, previous employers have dissapeared. I have mentioned other reasons that I may not be employed, but I can tell you that my attitude to work in every respect has always been good and I cant remember dissapointing any employer. It seems you have taken a dislike to me on account of grating with some of your beliefs and obvious predjudices, if so thats your problem

end of.

[Paul1Perth]

'Not tolerated' was a quote from a New Zealander working with me in London.

 

But my experience of what New Zealanders have said, and this is educated ones in the UK and Poms who have lived over there find that they, more so than poms in oz, find it very difficult to get on with New zealanders. One of the big reasons being the lack of humour in the NZ psyche as opposed to the massive and very well developed sense of humour in the average Brit. The brits in NZ have one advantage and that is that there a lot more of them these days in proportion to the overall population. Also to note that both myself and wife have been on the receiving end of NZealder negative attitudes both in Australia and in the UK. We recently chose to move out of a caravan park we were staying in on account of the arrogant attitude of the Kiwi manager, hated poms and said so, dont know but perhaps this is a way of ingratiating themselves with the Ausie natives, who know?

Im sure there are decent NZs who are not so biggoted just like there are many decent Australians of which I have known quite a few, however never a New Zealander without a massive sense of self importance nor an easy going attitude or a sense of humor. (dito my wife and even some Australians we know have said this).

 

I don't think kiwis are worried about "ingratiating themselves with the Ausie natives". They probably hate Aussies more than poms. In the nicest possible way, of course.

 

Every race has it's idiots, you seem to have met more than your fair share, unfortunataly.

[Guest guest30038]

Obviously Ive trodden on a nerve somewhere but I am only speaking the truth. The old days, eg pre the 1980's were horrendous for many immigrants, the attitudes prevelent at that time were agressive and negative in every possible way, this is a fact. You may not like it but as stated it is a fact. Bye bye

 

Bowing out? From a civil debate? I'm still curious as to how you can tarnish a whole nation based purely on your experience?

 

You used the word "many" not "all". You've simply proven my point. What is "many"? The majority of poms? By whom? The majority of Aussies? Why did poms continue to come here? Why did rellies follow their familes out? Were all those disenfranchised early migrants unable to tell others back there not to come because it was so bloody awful?

 

You've not trodden on a nerve Steve, just triggered my curiosity :biggrin:

 

I'm amazed at how so many badly treated Poms have managed to survive and prosper, and how the old 'uns that I encounter have nothing but praise for what Australia has given them and how they have been treated. I can understand why migrants are peeved nowadays with the exchange rate 'n all, but all those 10 pound poms who are still here, and happy, being treated appallingly? I'm amazed!

 

kev