Guest styran Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 U might be able to apply for an offshore ENS visa and still be on the BvA from ur previous 885 visa as i believe you can have multple visas being processed simulataneously... provided you are willing to dish out more cash towards the next visa application. I for one am not going to bother with that even though I can probably meet the salary requirements of 65 K or whatever for the ENS. I paid them good money for the 885... and I either want the visa or my money back !! Same here. Not willing to shell out anymore for something that is more unpredictable than Melbourne's weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheStig Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Important news ! Election Fever: Policy Issues Impacting Australian Migration Let's hope for the best ! Good points raised by the MIA. I hope answered are given to all 13 questions and not skipped to the next because thay are too hard to be answered. Or even worse bulls***t past them and try to mask the issues at hand. Evans is a master at this as we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hajiyama Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 DIAC's argument is a moot point as most pre-2010 ICT grads are actually employed. Telling us to go for ENS as a means to clean up their mess is also another moot point as most of us are on BvA for more than 28 days and as such no longer hold a qualifying visa for onshore ENS. The only option would be to apply for offshore ENS but that would mean leaving the country for that visa to be granted, which would be kind of inconvenient to our employers. Having stayed in Australia for 9 years and worked for various organisations, I thought I’d share some of the most frequently raised arguments regarding the ENS by employers. The below arguments are my actually experience with the HR department of a major Australian telco that I am currently working at. The point is: If the DIAC want us ICT recent grads to go for ENS, shouldn't they make sure that we can actually qualify for ENS first? It is company policy that we can only offer ENS to people above a certain remuneration level. Interesting enough though about a year back, I was running for another role within the IT department at my company which offered a salary of $78,000 per year, and my understanding is that you only need around $68,000 to qualify for ENS. Despite the endorsement from my manager, HR got back to me and said they couldn’t help, and they didn’t want to hear how ENS works either. [*]We can only offer ENS to people with specific skills that are hard to source locally. Fair enough. If this is the case then, tell the DIAC not to recommend this option to us recent graduates. [*]We understand there are experience requirements for an applicant to qualify for ENS, and since you haven’t got it already, we cannot offer ENS to you. Again, if this is the case then why is DIAC trying to advertise ENS as an EASY alternative to us recent graduates to the Australian general public? And this pisses me sometimes (excuse my language) when people at work talk about the immigration / population policy. They often say the country needs skilled migrants, and the reform to demand / ENS driven migration by the DIAC is the way to go, while they have absolute no idea on how ENS work which I don’t blame them because the DIAC never made them aware how difficult it is to get. Ask any recent graduates and you can only count a handful that have the required 3 years experience. [*]We understand there are requirements on the company where we have to offer you an on going position for at least the next 3 years, and we are not prepared to do this since the future is hard to predict. This sounds like a fair argument given the business needs to manage its risks, and offering an ongoing contract for at least the next 3 years may contradict this rule. Then why has the DIAC put this down as a requirement for ENS to recent grads? Ask how many local grads have managed to secure a contract that guarantees them the position for at least the next 3 years? The sole purpose of local companies recruitment formal overseas students is that they can stick to their budget while filling in the skills shortage. Put a brilliant local IT grad in our situation and I don’t think he/she will qualify either. So is the DIAC asking for something that is not possible to be done? CAT (4), 885 applied in MAR 2009, 2231-79 (ICT Recent Graduate), IELTS 8.0, Currently employed as ICT Systems Analyst, Becoming a .NET technical consultant next month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jess1983 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Having stayed in Australia for 9 years and worked for various organisations, I thought I’d share some of the most frequently raised arguments regarding the ENS by employers. The below arguments are my actually experience with the HR department of a major Australian telco that I am currently working at. The point is: If the DIAC want us ICT recent grads to go for ENS, shouldn't they make sure that we can actually qualify for ENS first? It is company policy that we can only offer ENS to people above a certain remuneration level. Interesting enough though about a year back, I was running for another role within the IT department at my company which offered a salary of $78,000 per year, and my understanding is that you only need around $68,000 to qualify for ENS. Despite the endorsement from my manager, HR got back to me and said they couldn’t help, and they didn’t want to hear how ENS works either. [*]We can only offer ENS to people with specific skills that are hard to source locally. Fair enough. If this is the case then, tell the DIAC not to recommend this option to us recent graduates. [*]We understand there are experience requirements for an applicant to qualify for ENS, and since you haven’t got it already, we cannot offer ENS to you. Again, if this is the case then why is DIAC trying to advertise ENS as an EASY alternative to us recent graduates to the Australian general public? And this pisses me sometimes (excuse my language) when people at work talk about the immigration / population policy. They often say the country needs skilled migrants, and the reform to demand / ENS driven migration by the DIAC is the way to go, while they have absolute no idea on how ENS work which I don’t blame them because the DIAC never made them aware how difficult it is to get. Ask any recent graduates and you can only count a handful that have the required 3 years experience. [*]We understand there are requirements on the company where we have to offer you an on going position for at least the next 3 years, and we are not prepared to do this since the future is hard to predict. This sounds like a fair argument given the business needs to manage its risks, and offering an ongoing contract for at least the next 3 years may contradict this rule. Then why has the DIAC put this down as a requirement for ENS to recent grads? Ask how many local grads have managed to secure a contract that guarantees them the position for at least the next 3 years? The sole purpose of local companies recruitment formal overseas students is that they can stick to their budget while filling in the skills shortage. Put a brilliant local IT grad in our situation and I don’t think he/she will qualify either. So is the DIAC asking for something that is not possible to be done? Agree completely...Ive heard similar things from my employer. It does make me mad they way DIAC & Minister Evans make out like we have the 'easy' option of ENS. It just doesn't work that way. Besides you have to have 3 years work experience before you can apply anyway. The option for 2 years experience is only available if accrued on a handful of visas inc 457 and most importantly doesn't include a bridging visa or more ridculously the 485!! I think they are just trying to make it impossible so people just start giving up and leaving. Well its not going to work with me, my whole family is here and I have nothing to go back for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hajiyama Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Agree completely...Ive heard similar things from my employer. It does make me mad they way DIAC & Minister Evans make out like we have the 'easy' option of ENS. It just doesn't work that way. Besides you have to have 3 years work experience before you can apply anyway. The option for 2 years experience is only available if accrued on a handful of visas inc 457 and most importantly doesn't include a bridging visa or more ridculously the 485!! I think they are just trying to make it impossible so people just start giving up and leaving. Well its not going to work with me, my whole family is here and I have nothing to go back for! In addition to my last posting, what really drives me mad is the way DIAC advertises the ENS to the local Australian population which is clearly misleading. They make ENS sounds like a fair and easy options for people who want to come to Australia and work, the reason used is that we have so many unemployable migrants in the past and we want to change that by ensuring only people who had a job lined up will be allowed in. While there is not a word mentioning the requirement / complex process involved in their communication with the Australian general public. For instance, I often get this question from local people who have heard about what is happening with GSM. “Why can’t you go for ENS since you are already working here? I understand it is faster to process.” How could the DIAC release a misleading and deceptive statement to the general public? Aren’t they obligated to tell everyone the full story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guanqunc Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 In addition to my last posting, what really drives me mad is the way DIAC advertises the ENS to the local Australian population which is clearly misleading. They make ENS sounds like a fair and easy options for people who want to come to Australia and work, the reason used is that we have so many unemployable migrants in the past and we want to change that by ensuring only people who had a job lined up will be allowed in. While there is not a word mentioning the requirement / complex process involved in their communication with the Australian general public. For instance, I often get this question from local people who have heard about what is happening with GSM. “Why can’t you go for ENS since you are already working here? I understand it is faster to process.” How could the DIAC release a misleading and deceptive statement to the general public? Aren’t they obligated to tell everyone the full story? Exactlly right, people always ask me, why not get ENS, you already working here...:realmad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hajiyama Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 What a bloody joke....and they still keep clearing Accounting grads with IELTS 7 off the CAT 3 list faster than any others.....TO WORK IN NON ACCOUNTING JOBS!!! :biglaugh: __________________________________________ CAT (4), 885 applied 2008 AUG, ICT - Recent graduate NEC, IELTS 8.0, NAATI qualified, Currently employed as a ICT Project Officer I think the real skill shortage of Australia is accounting graduates that can’t speak a word of English but happens to specialise in toilet cleaning. So that they can keep our toilets clean, while not complaining a single word. IT WORKS!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Seb Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 So is the DIAC asking for something that is not possible to be done? It's a catch-22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Not only ACC with 7,Also Accountants with 6 in IELTS are on the SOL 3 CAt!!!:mad: And they say they will have a policy review in Feb 2011??? Until feb if we will be capped then!!!! They are making a way of cutting the pipeline and this is a result of that!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Seb Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 No wonder DIAC can't get their IT systems right...their IT dept is overrun by accountants :laugh::tongue: No offence to our fellow accountants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zzzsianzzz Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 at the rate of them distributing their PR visas to accounting grads. it will take a decade to reach those below. How many people came over to study accounting but wasn't able to enter accounting firms? get an estimate of how many studying master of accounting or bachelor of accounting.. the numbers that they have in mind will be quickly filled by degree qualified accountants but got a job working as something else, just like the cooks and hairdressers.. omg.. that pisses me off.. so many accountants but still lacking accountants in Australia..? history repeats again.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ddd2010 Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 I don't know but this is what I think is happening. I'm not sure if I'm being too optimistic or not (maybe someone could tell me). I think DIAC is aware of this situation but chooses not to do anything about it just yet because their new boss might not like the current priority processing arrangement and may change it. If that's the case and they come up with some transitional arrangements for ICT Recent Graduates now then after a few weeks, it may not mean anything anymore. The only thing left is that ICT Recent Graduates applicants will be blaming them for all the mess. I do not think they will cap and cease onshore applicants because I think it is very harsh to do so and I'm pretty sure they think the same way (not sure about the boss though). I know quite a few onshore applicants that have been living in Australia for so many years. These people came here for various different reasons. They spent their time during high school here. They spent their teenage years here. They went to university here. Many have their family here. Shall I say they grew up in Australia? A lot of these people are more Australian than many Australian citizens. I know they may not make up a majority of the total number of onshore applicants but if I know a few, I'm sure they are not uncommon. Hopefully I'm not being too optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Manj Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 No wonder DIAC can't get their IT systems right...their IT dept is overrun by accountants :laugh::tongue: No offence to our fellow accountants LOL...goodone mate! ____________________________ CAT (4), 885 applied 2008 AUG, ICT - Recent graduate NEC, IELTS 8.0, NAATI qualified, Currently employed as a ICT Project Officer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Manj Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 U might be able to apply for an offshore ENS visa and still be on the BvA from ur previous 885 visa as i believe you can have multple visas being processed simulataneously... provided you are willing to dish out more cash towards the next visa application. I for one am not going to bother with that even though I can probably meet the salary requirements of 65 K or whatever for the ENS. I paid them good money for the 885... and I either want the visa or my money back !! The salary criteria is set very unfairley - WHat is the market salary for an ICT grad's...it's surly not 65k - Not for profits salary scales are much lower than Commerical organisations even though they make for it using salary packaging SO is a common salary cap of 65k fair.....I SAY NO I made the same point to Evan's secreatary.... I asked him if he could find a employer who is willing to pay 65k for a recent grad with no exp to let me know, cos I have quite alot of poeple to line up for that job..... he did not comment..!!!:biglaugh: _________________________________ CAT (4), 885 applied 2008 AUG, ICT - Recent graduate NEC, IELTS 8.0, NAATI qualified, Currently employed as a ICT Project Officer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zzzsianzzz Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 hey Manj, it depends on the economy, but the $65k defined by them is excluding compulsory super from employers, the actual figures should be around $70k+ if I didnt interpret wrongly usually a grad's pay dependent on economy should be around 45-50 inclusive of super n before tax. engineers n doctors might be higher than this mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Name Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 They did spare the onshores when they culled the September 2007 offshore applications. Not sure if it's because there was none left or they felt were compassionate enough to spare those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Name Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 I know quite a few onshore applicants that have been living in Australia for so many years. These people came here for various different reasons. They spent their time during high school here. They spent their teenage years here. They went to university here. Many have their family here. Shall I say they grew up in Australia? A lot of these people are more Australian than many Australian citizens. I know they may not make up a majority of the total number of onshore applicants but if I know a few, I'm sure they are not uncommon. Hopefully I'm not being too optimistic. I fit in that category. Been here since 2002. Was in year 9 back then. But yeah not many out there like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hajiyama Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 I fit in that category. Been here since 2002. Was in year 9 back then. But yeah not many out there like me. Count me in as I arrived in 2002 for high school then uni then work. I think the reason DIAC did not cease pre 09/2007 onshore applications was because they do not want to attract any legal actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Manj Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Count me in as I arrived in 2002 for high school then uni then work. I think the reason DIAC did not cease pre 09/2007 onshore applications was because they do not want to attract any legal actions. Sort of the thing my lawyer said.....he sais that if they cap and kill the onshores then there could be political issues between Australia and countries like CHINA & INDIA ..... so they have choosen to milk us by getting us to pay taxes like everyone else but not give us any benefits in return.... what a way to run a country!! __________________________________________________ CAT (4), 885 applied 2008 AUG, ICT - Recent graduate NEC, IELTS 8.0, NAATI qualified, Currently employed as a ICT Project Officer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Manj Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 hey Manj,it depends on the economy, but the $65k defined by them is excluding compulsory super from employers, the actual figures should be around $70k+ if I didnt interpret wrongly usually a grad's pay dependent on economy should be around 45-50 inclusive of super n before tax. engineers n doctors might be higher than this mark yep..the Salary they have set for ICT prof's is 65,200 excleduing super...It maybe around 73k with super.... I can't see any employer wanting to sponsor arecent graduate with no work exp. for such a package.... WHY DOES DIAC NOT GET THIS??? ____________________________________________ CAT (4), 885 applied 2008 AUG, ICT - Recent graduate NEC, IELTS 8.0, NAATI qualified, Currently employed as a ICT Project Officer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Name Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 The fact that they they still allow IT grads to go under group C of ACS means that they are not necessarily asking all IT grads to go via ENS route. Mind you all new grads go straight to Cat3 and and can get processed as fast as accountants. We are just unfortunate bunch who fell through the cracks mainly due to DIAC's terrible classification of IT professions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mongobear Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Hopefully the DIAC-flunkeys hear the outcry of the industry very soon. These are just a few of some very recent publications. Election 2010: The ICT industry's stake in the ground - Telstra, onash University senior political lecturer, nbn co, National Braodband Network (NBN), Mike Quigley, Man, IT wokers shortfall, ian birks, election 2010, Dr Nick Economou, Deena Shiff Recruitment companies warn of ICT skills shortage - skills shortage, IT jobs, ICT careers - Computerworld Telstra warns politicians against cutting skilled migration - Tony Abbott, Telstra, shortage of workers, ICT, Deena Shiff - ARN Federal public service hit by technology skills shortage | The Australian There are many more available. Just search Google for "ict shortage site:.au". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Manj Posted August 14, 2010 Share Posted August 14, 2010 Hopefully the DIAC-flunkeys hear the outcry of the industry very soon. These are just a few of some very recent publications. Election 2010: The ICT industry's stake in the ground - Telstra, onash University senior political lecturer, nbn co, National Braodband Network (NBN), Mike Quigley, Man, IT wokers shortfall, ian birks, election 2010, Dr Nick Economou, Deena Shiff Recruitment companies warn of ICT skills shortage - skills shortage, IT jobs, ICT careers - Computerworld Telstra warns politicians against cutting skilled migration - Tony Abbott, Telstra, shortage of workers, ICT, Deena Shiff - ARN Federal public service hit by technology skills shortage | The Australian There are many more available. Just search Google for "ict shortage site:.au". I don't think Evans nor his bunch of followers read these...... maybe these big companies and recruitment agencies should directly talk to Evans and his ministerial heads!! _______________________________ CAT (4), 885 applied 2008 AUG, ICT - Recent graduate NEC, IELTS 8.0, NAATI qualified, Currently employed as a ICT Project Officer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest itprofessional Posted August 14, 2010 Share Posted August 14, 2010 WHen did you apply for 885? I've also applied for 885 in May claiming MODL as i got my skills assess in 2231-79 Oracle specialist. which priority we fall into now ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masochist Posted August 14, 2010 Share Posted August 14, 2010 WHen did you apply for 885?I've also applied for 885 in May claiming MODL as i got my skills assess in 2231-79 Oracle specialist. which priority we fall into now ? Unless u have a case officer, u are in Priority 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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