How much does the ping pong affect kids?

[Zed]

Hi All,

We've lived in Aus for 13 years now. Originally from Yorkshire. 11 years in Melbourne which was great but we always felt the pull some what. We had one child when we came, he was only 1 so basically Aussie and another here a year later. We moved a year and a bit ago from Melbourne to Geelong to get in the housing market and I'm not settled. I'm questioning everything and just want to belong, and feel happy like I did in the UK. I know I'm probably thinking through rose tinted glasses but the feeling just doesn't go. I'm also trying desperately to be happy here and greatful for what we have and have achieved. Maybe it just takes time to make friends etc but I can't see it happening as my kids are older now. Anyway my question is what affect do you think moving around has on children 13 and 10??? They are settled in Geelong but fo miss melbs friends. How do they cope long term with multiple moves? Is it good for them? Damaging? I keep thinking about going back to the UK, back to melb, trying Perth etc but up routing them stops me. Plus the grass been green effect. Any thoughts welcome. Thanks

[Marisawright]

Children are resilient.  It will start to be a problem once they're over 15, when moving will begin to disrupt their education.  So you have a window, I think.  However I think you have to sort out your own feelings before you spend more money moving around Australia.

One thing I've learned from these forums:  Some people are nomads, like me, who can make anywhere their home.  We're the minority who can migrate around the world without a qualm.  But most people feel an attachment to their homeland. It's not logical, it's not a choice, it's just how most human beings are made.  There's a sense of "belonging" that most people aren't even aware of, until they move to another country and realise that it's missing.   

If that's truly how you feel, then please talk to your partner seriously about moving back to the UK in the next two years.  I say two years, because once your oldest is in Year 10, you'll feel the pressure to stay, "just until they get their HSC".  But if they want to go to uni, then you'll have to stay in Australia for them to do that, because youll have to pay full international fees if they go to a British university.  By the time they're finished uni, chances are your oldest won't want to move to the UK -- they'll feel 100% Australian, they'll have all their friends, a boyfriend or girlfriend, they might even be married. Plus your younger child is getting to a serious point in their education, so you're stuck again...and so it goes on.  Eventually they're both old enough not to need you, so you could move back in theory -- but would you want to be separated from them?  From the grandkids, if there are any?  

Maybe that's the question to think about.  If I said to you, "Either move back to the UK before 2025, or you'll be stuck in Australia till the day you die" -- how does that make you feel?  If it makes your heart sink, then I think you've got your answer.  You may be better off financially in Australia but money isn't everything. 

I know that sounds dramatic but just take a browse through the UK Chat section and you'll read some heartbreaking stories which reflect exactly that experience, so please don't underestimate it.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Marisawright

[Quoll]

7 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Children are resilient.  It will start to be a problem once they're over 15, when moving will begin to disrupt their education.  So you have a window, I think.  However I think you have to sort out your own feelings before you spend more money moving around Australia.

One thing I've learned from these forums:  Some people are nomads, like me, who can make anywhere their home.  We're the minority who can migrate around the world without a qualm.  But most people feel an attachment to their homeland. It's not logical, it's not a choice, it's just how most human beings are made.  There's a sense of "belonging" that most people aren't even aware of, until they move to another country and realise that it's missing.   

If that's truly how you feel, then please talk to your partner seriously about moving back to the UK in the next two years.  I say two years, because once your oldest is in Year 10, you'll feel the pressure to stay, "just until they get their HSC".  But if they want to go to uni, then you'll have to stay in Australia for them to do that, because youll have to pay full international fees if they go to a British university.  By the time they're finished uni, chances are your oldest won't want to move to the UK -- they'll feel 100% Australian, they'll have all their friends, a boyfriend or girlfriend, they might even be married. Plus your younger child is getting to a serious point in their education, so you're stuck again...and so it goes on.  Eventually they're both old enough not to need you, so you could move back in theory -- but would you want to be separated from them?  From the grandkids, if there are any?  

Maybe that's the question to think about.  If I said to you, "Either move back to the UK before 2025, or you'll be stuck in Australia till the day you die" -- how does that make you feel?  If it makes your heart sink, then I think you've got your answer.  You may be better off financially in Australia but money isn't everything. 

I know that sounds dramatic but just take a browse through the UK Chat section and you'll read some heartbreaking stories which reflect exactly that experience, so please don't underestimate it.

I'm not on top of GCSEs but going by my grandson's age, I think they may start studying for GCSEs when they are 14 (going into year 10) so a move back to UK should be sorted before a child gets on the GCSE merry go round otherwise they are going to be behind the 8 ball so the window of opportunity might not be quite as large.  I agree with everything else that has been said though!!!  Basically, if you dont go now you will never find the right time to go.

[FirstWorldProblems]

@Quoll is correct. GCSE’s run two years. Starting September when the child is aged 14/15 and concluding with final exams dropping in late June/early July when the child is 15/16. 
 

The school year is based on the child’s age as of 31 August.   
 

A-levels are the common next step. Also 2 years. 
 

The Australian system does not align to this at all, so moving with minimal disruption for education should take place before GCSE starts or after A-levels conclude. 
 

We are in that situation ourselves (though moving the other direction). 
 

I’ll share our personal experience (but of course this might just be us, not you)…..

Son is now 18 and in the middle of his A-Level exams.  Youngest daughter is in 1st year of GCSE’s.    Plan is to move when she finishes A-level in 2026
 

2015-2021 Son (independent to any influence from us), always insisted he was going to uni in Australia and living with his nan. 
2022 Son says he wants to consider UK and Aus Uni’s.  But then only actually applies to U.K. ones. 
2023 Son says “I think I’ll stay in the U.K. after uni. Just for a couple years to get some work experience.” 
1 week later Daughter says “I’m going to Uni in the U.K. “

You might have been able to hear my wife yelling “no you will not” all the way from the other side of the world   

No idea how it will play out for us, but if I was you I’d make the move before your kids get into that phase of education, because as young adults they might have strong independent will and might refuse. 
 

 

[Tulip1]

38 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

@Quoll is correct. GCSE’s run two years. Starting September when the child is aged 14/15 and concluding with final exams dropping in late June/early July when the child is 15/16. 
 

The school year is based on the child’s age as of 31 August.   
 

A-levels are the common next step. Also 2 years. 
 

The Australian system does not align to this at all, so moving with minimal disruption for education should take place before GCSE starts or after A-levels conclude. 
 

We are in that situation ourselves (though moving the other direction). 
 

I’ll share our personal experience (but of course this might just be us, not you)…..

Son is now 18 and in the middle of his A-Level exams.  Youngest daughter is in 1st year of GCSE’s.    Plan is to move when she finishes A-level in 2026
 

2015-2021 Son (independent to any influence from us), always insisted he was going to uni in Australia and living with his nan. 
2022 Son says he wants to consider UK and Aus Uni’s.  But then only actually applies to U.K. ones. 
2023 Son says “I think I’ll stay in the U.K. after uni. Just for a couple years to get some work experience.” 
1 week later Daughter says “I’m going to Uni in the U.K. “

You might have been able to hear my wife yelling “no you will not” all the way from the other side of the world   

No idea how it will play out for us, but if I was you I’d make the move before your kids get into that phase of education, because as young adults they might have strong independent will and might refuse. 
 

 

I agree, do it while the kids are younger.  When they are at an age you can force the move you stand a good chance of them settling and remaining.  They may not remain but it’s your best chance.  FirstWorldProblems,  I don’t envy your situation.  It’s very likely you and your wife will either end up remaining stuck in the UK or move leaving one or two adult kids behind.  There’s nothing we can do about it when they are old enough to make their own decisions.  It’s the same as someone’s adult child moving to another country as I guess you did and millions of others have (my kids included)  You just have to respect their decisions, support them and be happy for them. 

Edited June 4, 2023 by Tulip1

[InnerVoice]

Contrary to the above comments, I'd be more concerned about how another move so soon would affect the children's well being rather than the disruption to their education. 'Children are resilient' is a very general statement, and indeed many are, but some really struggle with change. No one will be better judge of how they will fare than you.

You don't feel a sense of belonging, but are unsure whether you want to move elsewhere in Australia or back to the UK. I'm sorry that you don't feel settled here, but I'd seriously be weighing up the pros and cons before making another move. Having worked so hard to get where you are, I'd be asking myself can I grow to love my current life before I gave it up.

[InnerVoice]

14 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

I agree, do it while the kids are younger.  When they are at an age you can force the move you stand a good chance of them settling and remaining.  They may not remain but it’s your best chance.  FirstWorldProblems,  I don’t envy your situation.  It’s very likely you and your wife will either end up remaining stuck in the UK or move leaving one or two adult kids behind.  There’s nothing we can do about it when they are old enough to make their own decisions.  It’s the same as someone’s adult child moving to another country as I guess you did and millions of others have (my kids included)  You just have to respect their decisions, support them and be happy for them. 

In this case they aren't toddlers, so it might be wise to consider their feelings before making a decision. You don't have to wait until they're adults to respect their opinions. 

[Marisawright]

49 minutes ago, InnerVoice said:

You don't feel a sense of belonging, but are unsure whether you want to move elsewhere in Australia or back to the UK.

However, I think that for a lot of migrants, it's the thought that "we've worked so hard to get where we are, how can we give it up now?".

Again, it's human nature.  We make a big expensive decision and then realise it was a mistake -- but rather than admit it was a mistake and undo it, we'll keep throwing more money at it to try and fix it.  

[Tulip1]

1 hour ago, InnerVoice said:

In this case they aren't toddlers, so it might be wise to consider their feelings before making a decision. You don't have to wait until they're adults to respect their opinions. 

I agree but I was responding to FirstWorldProblems who was explaining his position with what will be adult kids who can make their own decisions.  He will likely be in a situation that his family will be split between two countries.  Had he moved five years ago that wouldn’t be the case so the answer is move while the kids have no choice.  It sounds tough and it is but if parents have decided to move the kids move with them.  The parents are in charge.  As for respecting their opinions, definitely.  It probably wouldn’t change most parents minds if they’d made the decision but yes, respect them just the same.  My comment on respecting their choices was in relation to the FirstWorldProblems saying his wife yelled oh no you will not to their daughter.   If the daughter wants to remain in the UK as an adult that should be respected as it’s her choice.  Had she been five years younger her feelings should still have been respected but she’d still be moving with her family.   

[Bulya]

What were your hobbies/pastimes in the U.K? 

[Quoll]

3 hours ago, InnerVoice said:

Contrary to the above comments, I'd be more concerned about how another move so soon would affect the children's well being rather than the disruption to their education. 'Children are resilient' is a very general statement, and indeed many are, but some really struggle with change. No one will be better judge of how they will fare than you.

You don't feel a sense of belonging, but are unsure whether you want to move elsewhere in Australia or back to the UK. I'm sorry that you don't feel settled here, but I'd seriously be weighing up the pros and cons before making another move. Having worked so hard to get where you are, I'd be asking myself can I grow to love my current life before I gave it up.

Yes and no. Under a certain age and I'd suggest the kids in this case are still under that age, parents make the decisions. Once the kids have finished school education then they can make their own decisions about where they want to be, and it's a 50/50: they may choose Australia or they may choose UK. I think parents who make the big move should expect that their kids might well end up on the other side of the world from where they are and, as parents, we should be proud that we've given them the wings and the confidence to fly solo no matter how uncomfortable it is for us as parents.  However, adults need to make decisions based on their adult lives and living somewhere you don't being doesn't make for happy parents and good models of happy adults. If the thought of ending your days in Australia fills you with dread then moving on is probably done sooner rather than later because the older you are, the harder it becomes to get yourself organised ready for retirement. As always, being a parent isn't easy.

[Eera]

My parents were ping-pongers and moved from Aus to the UK when I was 13. I resented the move at the time but long term there was no affect on me whatsoever - my age cohort at school had a lot of questions due to my accent (mainly along the lines of "what's happening on Neighbours?" - this was when the UK was 2 years behind), but there was never any bullying or anything.

My autistic brother adapted very well also - he would have been 16 but because of his special education exams and things weren't an issue.

As previously said, you know your kids and how adaptable they are.

[InnerVoice]

21 hours ago, Marisawright said:

However, I think that for a lot of migrants, it's the thought that "we've worked so hard to get where we are, how can we give it up now?".

Again, it's human nature.  We make a big expensive decision and then realise it was a mistake -- but rather than admit it was a mistake and undo it, we'll keep throwing more money at it to try and fix it.  

I agree that it's easier to settle for the status quo when life 'isn't that bad' because change requires both commitment and risk, but I think one needs to have a solid plan when making life-changing decisions. The OP said they felt unsettled, missed UK life, but wasn't sure they wanted to return there, move back to Melbourne or try somewhere new in Australia, like Perth. That's essentially the catalyst for a ping-pom experience, which will burn through far money until than staying where you are until you've worked out what you really want.

[Marisawright]

13 hours ago, InnerVoice said:

I agree that it's easier to settle for the status quo when life 'isn't that bad' because change requires both commitment and risk, but I think one needs to have a solid plan when making life-changing decisions. The OP said they felt unsettled, missed UK life, but wasn't sure they wanted to return there, move back to Melbourne or try somewhere new in Australia, like Perth. That's essentially the catalyst for a ping-pom experience, which will burn through far money until than staying where you are until you've worked out what you really want.

Yes that's essentially what I said in my first post.  It's important to be as sure as one can be, BUT it's also important not to keep delaying the decision, because there IS a point of no return, as FirstWorldProblems is discovering.  There are some (indeed many) situations where we can never be sure which is the best choice.  We mustn't forget that staying put is also a choice and it may be the wrong one.

[Zed]

Thanks all for your posts/insight. 

Its such a hard decision. We can't move anywhere at the moment as we need to grow equity so for now we have to stay put and try be happy here. If by the time we have enough equity to move it will be back to Melbourne. At least there we and the kids have our old connections. I think the thought of trying somewhere new in Aus is just too much and the wrong knee jerk idea to being unhappy here. 

UK is always going to have that pull but we chose Aus for a reason and I think moving from Melbourne to Geelong and not liking it made me just want to give up and move back to the UK when I think in hindsight it's actually Melbourne we miss. 

 

[Marisawright]

22 minutes ago, Zed said:

UK is always going to have that pull but we chose Aus for a reason and I think moving from Melbourne to Geelong and not liking it made me just want to give up and move back to the UK when I think in hindsight it's actually Melbourne we miss.

That's a good realisation.  

I think, if you like Melbourne, that moving elsewhere in Australia wouldn't be a solution anyway.   I'd say Melbourne is very different from other Australian cities.  

Edited June 6, 2023 by Marisawright