Sponsored my partner previously does it count towards the sponsorship limit?

[TruthSeeking]

About a decade ago we had applied for a Partner 820 visa gaining a Bridging Visa. It was a slow process which is normal, but at the time we changed the bridging visa and flew to the USA in order to visit my wife's family. While there we decided to stay and do the US immigration for the green card which was fast and approved. Because we didn't go back to Australia for the application, the application was refused, obviously. But over the years I've really  missed home, which is Australia. My wife and I have children now which we got them Aussie Citizens by Descent through my Citizenship.

So here is what I'm wondering. We are currently trying to do the Partner 309 Visa, and there is a question that asks if the Sponsor (myself) has previously sponsored someone.
Do we answer YES or NO? I had previously sponsored my wife around a decade ago and now would sponsor my wife AGAIN, being the same partner applicant. Do I answer YES, I have sponsored someone else previously and then just give the details or answer NO cause does this question really relate to if I sponsored someone ELSE  other than my wife?

Any direction would greatly help on this. Thanks in advance.

[Marisawright]

I'm not an expert, but I'd have thought the answer is yes, you did sponsor someone.  It doesn't ask, "Did you sponsor someone ELSE"

Edited August 5, 2020 by Marisawright

[TruthSeeking]

@Marisawright, be good to know for certain. I don't want to answer the question wrong at all.

The online application states:
"Has this sponsor previously sponsored/nominated a spouse, de facto, prospective spouse or interdependent partner?"

So YES, if my wife counts being the same spouse I sponsored previously and will be sponsoring again.
Or NO if the question is for someone else which then would not apply to us.

I've included a screen show below of the online application and chose YES as it shows the different examples. I don't see any examples related to us but the question could apply to us as YES but wouldn't if we go by the examples given. Seems to be a gray area and I want to be honest but not say YES if I'm not supposed to.

[TruthSeeking]

When I go further to write previous sponsorship of my wife, it asked about Date Marriage ended and to give details of how and why the relationship ended.
Our marriage never ended and we're still married. This is starting to really look like the question refers to someone else.

Can anyone confirm this at all?

Below is the screenshot of this:

Edited August 5, 2020 by TruthSeeking

[Marisawright]

Why are you applying now?  I thought you said, on another thread, that you want to go to Australia now.    If that's the case, then your best option is to move to Australia (with your partner on an ordinary tourist visa) then apply for a partner visa once you're onshore.  Then she'll be granted a bridging visa which will allow her to stay until the partner visa is granted.

Whereas if you apply now and then travel to Australia with her on a visitor visa, there's a very good chance her visitor visa will run out before the 309 is granted, and she'll have to leave the country.

You would be well advised to have at least one consultation with a registered migration agent to be sure you're doing the right thing.

Edited August 5, 2020 by Marisawright

[TruthSeeking]

 

9 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

your best option is to move to Australia (with your partner on an ordinary tourist visa) then apply for a partner visa once you're onshore.  Then she'll be granted a bridging visa which will allow her to stay until the partner visa is granted.

Good point. Only problem is Australia has temporarily suspended normal route that we would have gone. And the Visa you're talking about has a Mandatory No Further Stay Condition 8503 automatically applied to the Visitor visa (subclass 600) Sponsored family stream. This means that if we do this route then then there will be no Bridging Visa permitted or any other visa application making our trip pointless. I've seen posts from others that you can apply for the 309 and then while that is submitted waiting for a CO, you can then get a Visa 600 while you're waiting but then would have to leave when they make a decision.

You are right about talking to a registered migration agent as probably a good idea. As we're doing the application before submission, we've been getting our questions gathered for talkign to an agent. But right now seeing if anyone else knows some of the answers to these questions. I do appreciate you time.

Edited August 5, 2020 by TruthSeeking

[Marisawright]

5 minutes ago, TruthSeeking said:

. I've seen posts from others that you can apply for the 309 and then while that is submitted waiting for a CO, you can then get a Visa 600 while you're waiting but then would have to leave when they make a decision.

...but that's assuming the 600 visa lasts long enough.  It's very likely that it will expire before a decision is made. What will you do then?  

Are you sure the 600 visa is the only tourist visa available to you?

[Jon the Hat]

22 minutes ago, TruthSeeking said:

 

Good point. Only problem is Australia has temporarily suspended normal route that we would have gone. And the Visa you're talking about has a Mandatory No Further Stay Condition 8503 automatically applied to the Visitor visa (subclass 600) Sponsored family stream. This means that if we do this route then then there will be no Bridging Visa permitted or any other visa application making our trip pointless. I've seen posts from others that you can apply for the 309 and then while that is submitted waiting for a CO, you can then get a Visa 600 while you're waiting but then would have to leave when they make a decision.

You are right about talking to a registered migration agent as probably a good idea. As we're doing the application before submission, we've been getting our questions gathered for talkign to an agent. But right now seeing if anyone else knows some of the answers to these questions. I do appreciate you time.

Are you sure the Visitor Visa route is closed to you?  I was under the impression that spouse of Australian Citizens could qualify for an excemption.

[TruthSeeking]

24 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

...but that's assuming the 600 visa lasts long enough.  It's very likely that it will expire before a decision is made. What will you do then?  

Are you sure the 600 visa is the only tourist visa available to you?

I've exhausted endlessly looking for other options. There was the other but that has been suspended due to covid. So no longer can we apply for the 820.
So as of now the plan is to submit the Partner 309 application, and after submitted, apply for the Visitor 600. According to average wait times last I checked, it takes about 2 months for that one alone to be approved. The other (309) takes much longer. Once the Visitor 600 is approved, then we apply for the exemption.

If you know of another visa that might be available to us, let me know as I'd rather pick one that has more flexibility.

10 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Are you sure the Visitor Visa route is closed to you?  I was under the impression that spouse of Australian Citizens could qualify for an excemption.

Yes, a spouse qualifies for an exemption, but the condition for an exemption states that your spouse must have a valid visa in order to get an exemption.
https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/immediate-family-australian-citizen-or-permanent-resident

They recommend we do the Visa 600 on their website to travel to Australia, but that visa shows there is a an automatic No Further Stay condition attached to these visas.

If you are aware of any other visas we can use that doesn't have No Further Stay on it, then if we qualify for it then we'd go that route.

Edited August 5, 2020 by TruthSeeking

[paulhand]

1 minute ago, TruthSeeking said:

They recommend we do the Visa 600 on their website to travel to Australia, but that visa shows there is a an automatic No Further Stay condition attached to these visas.

If you are aware of any other visas we can use that doesn't have No Further Stay on it, then if we qualify for it then we'd go that route.

I've answered this question in another thread.

I do suggest that you get a professional opinion, based around your specific circumstances, on how to take this forward in the most efficient manner.

[TruthSeeking]

@paulhand, thanks. You're probably right in us going to a professional on this. I searched the internet for these different things but no much discussion on it. Thought it might be good to ask and maybe by asking it gives others in our same position some sort of path as well.

[lepea]

I’d consider applying for the visitor visa 600 and see what you’re granted then decide whether to lodge your parent visa on or off shore.

As a parent of Australian citizens you are likely to be given a 12 month stay without a no further stay condition. 
I applied for mine on the 26th July and it was granted 4 days later - 12 month visa and no ‘no further stay’. I applied for my 309 last September but various reasons mean we need to get to Australia ASAP. 
Hindsight being a wonderful thing we should have gone down the 600 then onshore application but who knew the world would lockdown

[TruthSeeking]

3 hours ago, lepea said:

I’d consider applying for the visitor visa 600 and see what you’re granted then decide whether to lodge your parent visa on or off shore.

As a parent of Australian citizens you are likely to be given a 12 month stay without a no further stay condition. 
I applied for mine on the 26th July and it was granted 4 days later - 12 month visa and no ‘no further stay’. I applied for my 309 last September but various reasons mean we need to get to Australia ASAP. 
Hindsight being a wonderful thing we should have gone down the 600 then onshore application but who knew the world would lockdown

My concern is the intentions. They specifically state our intention isn't to stay in Australia if we use the Visa 600. We've already got police checks, stat declarations etc. for the 309 and are nearly ready to submit it. Wouldn't going on the 600 then applying for the 820 go against those intentions? Paying for tickets etc. for a family gets expensive and not be good to be turned back on arrival.

You mean the Partner visa on or off shore?
I'm assuming that as a parent of Australian Citizens, those children can be any age. This would be a huge benefit to the process.
Be a lot more easier to come in and do it all on shore vs. off shore. There is no embassy or consulate near us and renewing passports etc would just be expensive and a headache since they require us to physically come in with the children we'd have to drive across states in order to satisfy this burden. It'd end up costing thousands extra. Thankfully passports are current, but they will expire in the near future and would like to go before that happens.

[TruthSeeking]

@lepea, we're really thinking the route you went is the safest bet for us. I have no issue applying for a 309 then the 600 and have to leave with my spouse for a short time to a near country while leaving the children in Australia with my own family I grew up with. But be a lot easier to be on an 820 and bridging visa during that time.. Again, intentions. Because of that, I can't help but think it'd be safer to submit 309 and straight away apply for the 600. We have been working hard on a Decision Ready Application. A decade of records to prove our relationship is genuine isn't hard, but there is a lot of records. We plan to submit our 309 within a few days and can then submit for the 600 within the week.

Yes, our circumstances also are requiring we go. Being in the USA isn't a place I want our family to be and I think many fellow Aussies would understand.

The whole covid thing has made things complicated and hard. I've seen some people have a go at Aussies stranded overseas as somehow their fault, but for us, we don't have the luxury of jumping on the next plane. As you are fully aware of, many have to get visas, exemption, etc.and that can be costly. We have to make sure kids have their citizenships, passports, etc. as well. Lots of fun.

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by TruthSeeking

[Marisawright]

35 minutes ago, TruthSeeking said:

My concern is the intentions. They specifically state our intention isn't to stay in Australia if we use the Visa 600. We've already got police checks, stat declarations etc. for the 309 and are nearly ready to submit it. Wouldn't going on the 600 then applying for the 820 go against those intentions? Paying for tickets etc. for a family gets expensive and not be good to be turned back on arrival.

No it would not.  That is a common misconception.   If you are arriving in Australia with the intention of applying for another visa and the hope that you'll then be able to stay permanently, that is not illegal.  It's illegal to arrive in Australia with the intention of staying forever even if your attempts to get another visa are refused.

I am pretty sure that if you consult an agent, that route is what they would recommend.  Covid makes it more difficult, but agents are being kept up to date in ways that we are not.  Give a good agent like Paul Hand a call.  The first consultation is free, so you  have nothing to lose, and you are just wasting time trying to go it alone. 

My big concern, which you haven't addressed, is the length of a 600 visa vs the wait time for a partner visa.   If you're planning to apply for the 309 now, wait 6 months and then get a 600 visa for 12 months, that might be OK.   But if you're planning to apply for the 309 and then the 600 and fly as soon as possible, what happens when the 600 runs out and you still have 6 months or more before the 309 comes through?  Where will you go?

Edited August 6, 2020 by Marisawright

[TruthSeeking]

5 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

No it would not.  That is a common misconception.   If you are arriving in Australia with the intention of applying for another visa and the hope that you'll then be able to stay permanently, that is not illegal.  It's illegal to arrive in Australia with the intention of staying forever even if your attempts to get another visa are refused.

My big concern, which you haven't addressed, is the length of a 600 visa vs the wait time for a partner visa.   If you're planning to apply for the 309 now, wait 6 months and then get a 600 visa for 12 months, that might be OK.   But if you're planning to apply for the 309 and then the 600 and fly as soon as possible, what happens when the 600 runs out and you still have 6 months or more before the 309 comes through?  Where will you go?

You got a good point. You've given me some things to think about and I'll ask about this very thing to an immigration lawyer. Just to schedule to talk to one requires a wait of up to a week and every day we don't submit an application means further  delays.

[Marisawright]

5 minutes ago, TruthSeeking said:

You got a good point. You've given me some things to think about and I'll ask about this very thing to an immigration lawyer. Just to schedule to talk to one requires a wait of up to a week and every day we don't submit an application means further  delays.

NEVER use an immigration lawyer.  Use a MARA registered migration agent.   Paul Hand is one and highly recommended (Suncoast Migration) @paulhand.  If he can't respond quickly, give Go Matilda a try, or Pinoy Australia.     All the work is done online or by phone so there's no need for the agent to be in your home country.

If you submit the 309 now and it turns out to be the wrong decision (which I think it is), you've just wasted your money.

For clarity, an immigration lawyer is useful if you've had a visa refused and you need to go to court.  They're not appropriate for applications, even though they may try to claim they are.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Marisawright

[TruthSeeking]

1 minute ago, Marisawright said:

For clarity, an immigration lawyer is useful if you've had a visa refused and you need to go to court.  They're not appropriate for applications, even though they may try to claim they are.

Well we have had a visa refused before as stated in the beginning of this thread, but that we cause we abandoned the application for me to migrate to the USA. A the time it was cheaper and quicker and seemed like the best option available to us at the time. So this would be one reason I'd consider talking an agent or lawyer.

[Marisawright]

2 hours ago, TruthSeeking said:

Well we have had a visa refused before as stated in the beginning of this thread, but that we cause we abandoned the application for me to migrate to the USA. A the time it was cheaper and quicker and seemed like the best option available to us at the time. So this would be one reason I'd consider talking an agent or lawyer.

Like I said, you’d use a lawyer if you need to go to court. Don’t waste your money on one for a visa application - you need an agent for that

Edited August 6, 2020 by Marisawright

[TruthSeeking]

8 hours ago, lepea said:

I’d consider applying for the visitor visa 600 and see what you’re granted then decide whether to lodge your parent visa on or off shore.

As a parent of Australian citizens you are likely to be given a 12 month stay without a no further stay condition. 
I applied for mine on the 26th July and it was granted 4 days later - 12 month visa and no ‘no further stay’. I applied for my 309 last September but various reasons mean we need to get to Australia ASAP. 
Hindsight being a wonderful thing we should have gone down the 600 then onshore application but who knew the world would lockdown

Did you apply for the full 12 months or less? I'm seeing on the 600 application that if you do 12 months then they can require or will that you have a medical examination. Wondering on your experience on this.

[lepea]

@TruthSeeking I applied for 12 months. 

there is a section to attach document about why you want a 12 month stay - I attached my children’s citizenship by decent approval and their UK birth certificates. 

Edited August 6, 2020 by lepea

[TruthSeeking]

@lepea, did you have to get a medical?

I recall you applied for the 309 already by the time you applied for the 600?

[lepea]

I have already done my medical for the 309 and so I attached the HAP-ID number for it. I don’t think you need to have a medical but I guess it could be requested if something flagged in your application when you answer the health questions. 

Edited August 6, 2020 by lepea