Options for bringing over future spouse

[mikesmyth]

Is it possible to bring my partner over for a visit visa (assuming she doesnt get the no further stay condition) - get married to her through the official channel in Oz (BDM Victoria) and then apply for her partner visa while she is in the country, so a bridging visa can come into effect.

 

[wrussell]

Yes. If you are qualified.

[mikesmyth]

On 10/10/2018 at 23:26, wrussell said:

Yes. If you are qualified.

Qualified in what sense?

Can you please elaborate? I have permanent residency in Australia.

[paulhand]

In the sense that she meets all the criteria for a partner visa. Marriage in and of itself does not mean she would necessarily qualify for a visa. 

[mikesmyth]

23 hours ago, paulhand said:

In the sense that she meets all the criteria for a partner visa. Marriage in and of itself does not mean she would necessarily qualify for a visa. 

She got a multiple entry 3 month visa without a "no further stay" condition

i will not marry her once she is here, because it considered a breach of tourist visa conditions (it was never mentioned in the intention for visiting when applying for the visa)

once she is here, I will apply for the PMV.

question is - what happens then? does she get bridging or not?

Edited October 23, 2018 by mikesmyth

[Nemesis]

17 minutes ago, mikesmyth said:

She got a multiple entry 3 month visa without a "no further stay" condition

i will not marry her once she is here, because it considered a breach of tourist visa conditions (it was never mentioned in the intention for visiting when applying for the visa)

once she is here, I will apply for the PMV.

question is - what happens then? does she get bridging or not?

There is nothing to stop you marrying her while she is on a tourist visa

She cannot apply for a PMV onshore. That must be done offshore.

[paulhand]

55 minutes ago, mikesmyth said:

She got a multiple entry 3 month visa without a "no further stay" condition

i will not marry her once she is here, because it considered a breach of tourist visa conditions (it was never mentioned in the intention for visiting when applying for the visa)

once she is here, I will apply for the PMV.

question is - what happens then? does she get bridging or not?

I suggest you get some professional advice from an RMA, who can explain how this all works based on your circumstances. 

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, mikesmyth said:

She got a multiple entry 3 month visa without a "no further stay" condition

What WRussell means is that your relationship must meet the criteria for a partner visa.  Just being married will get you nowhere.

If you bring her to Australia, marry her and apply for a PMV, but you haven't lived together long enough and you can't supply the evidence they require, then the visa will be refused and all your efforts will backfire. 

[Nemesis]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

What WRussell means is that your relationship must meet the criteria for a partner visa.  Just being married will get you nowhere.

If you bring her to Australia, marry her and apply for a PMV, but you haven't lived together long enough and you can't supply the evidence they require, then the visa will be refused and all your efforts will backfire. 

The PMV is the Prospective Marriage Visa anyway, and is for travelling to Australia in order to get married and then apply onshore for the Spouse Visa. It must be applied for offshore. 

If they get married with her on a tourist visa there is no need for a PMV, they apply straight for the Spouse Visa 820/801

[mikesmyth]

3 hours ago, Nemesis said:

There is nothing to stop you marrying her while she is on a tourist visa

Except for the fact, that it wasnt mentioned in the reason on why she intends to visit australia. Because if she intended to come to Australia to marry, she should apply for PMV and not tourist. If it was mentioned in the reason for visitng Australia, the immi guys would have refused the tourist visa.

1 hour ago, Nemesis said:

The PMV is the Prospective Marriage Visa anyway, and is for travelling to Australia in order to get married and then apply onshore for the Spouse Visa. It must be applied for offshore. 

If they get married with her on a tourist visa there is no need for a PMV, they apply straight for the Spouse Visa 820/801

Wont the authorities feel that they have been taken advantage of. Like that they werent told the whole story of her intent to travel. They obviously wont believe the girl fell in love in 3 months and wanted to marry.

It might backfire on both of us

Edited October 23, 2018 by mikesmyth

[mikesmyth]

This was from another forum:

  Quote

If you don't tell them the marriage plans, then be very careful about little details like why she is visiting. Don't mention fiancé or even BF, just a friend etc.

I had a mate who got caught out in this with his UK GF, and they refused to let her into the country, put her straight back on a plane and told him to apply for the right visa. This was all because of a casual question at immigration on where she was going to be staying. She said "with my fiancé" – and that was it. off for a chat in an office.

If you do tell them about the marriage plans they 100% will deny you a tourist visa and make you apply for a prospective marriage visa – they can also start talking about temporary bans for attempt

Quote

It's a bit of a grey area I think. As others have pointed out, if the intention of the trip is to come here to get married, and you apply for a tourist visa you are technically lying to immigration and risk having the visa cancelled and being banned for years (and getting on Border Security)

 

[Marisawright]

43 minutes ago, mikesmyth said:

Except for the fact, that it wasnt mentioned in the reason on why she intends to visit australia. Because if she intended to come to Australia to marry, she should apply for PMV and not tourist. If it was mentioned in the reason for visitng Australia, the immi guys would have refused the tourist visa.

Wont the authorities feel that they have been taken advantage of. Like that they werent told the whole story of her intent to travel. They obviously wont believe the girl fell in love in 3 months and wanted to marry.

It might backfire on both of us

Exactly so why are you even suggesting it

[mikesmyth]

52 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Exactly so why are you even suggesting it

Didnt know PMV was strictly offshore. Also someone else in the thread said they got married while his wife was on a tourist visa and didnt have any issues. And also learning new stuff, so possibly when i posted the original query i did not know about it

[Nemesis]

1 hour ago, mikesmyth said:

Except for the fact, that it wasnt mentioned in the reason on why she intends to visit australia. Because if she intended to come to Australia to marry, she should apply for PMV and not tourist. If it was mentioned in the reason for visitng Australia, the immi guys would have refused the tourist visa.

Wont the authorities feel that they have been taken advantage of. Like that they werent told the whole story of her intent to travel. They obviously wont believe the girl fell in love in 3 months and wanted to marry.

It might backfire on both of us

If she arrived at Immigration on a tourist visa and announced her intention to marry they would quite possibly refuse her entry, not so much due to her intent being marriage, not tourism, but due to the fact they might suspect after marrying she would just overstay her tourist visa. 

If she arrives intending to just holiday in oz, then changes her mind because you two are getting on so well, so you get married now instead of in several months as you might have originally have planned, that's perfectly fine, Her INTENT was to have a holiday, she just changed her mind after arrival.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with marrying in oz while on a tourist visa. 

You even have two agents on the thread and they would soon have shouted if it was not allowed.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Nemesis

[Nemesis]

15 minutes ago, mikesmyth said:

Didnt know PMV was strictly offshore. Also someone else in the thread said they got married while his wife was on a tourist visa and didnt have any issues. And also learning new stuff, so possibly when i posted the original query i did not know about it

Yes, a PMV is strictly offshore as it is designed to allow entry n order to marry and remain in the country.

If you search this and other specialist forums dealing with Australian Immigration you will find thousands of people who have married while on tourist visas. The vast majority will have no issues. It does put pressure on though as you would ned to organise the wedding and get the paperwork together for the Spouse Visa all before the tourist visa expires.

Getting a PMV offshore gives you longer to plan and get all the papers sorted.

 

 

 

 

, 

[mikesmyth]

14 hours ago, Nemesis said:

Yes, a PMV is strictly offshore as it is designed to allow entry n order to marry and remain in the country.

If you search this and other specialist forums dealing with Australian Immigration you will find thousands of people who have married while on tourist visas. The vast majority will have no issues. It does put pressure on though as you would ned to organise the wedding and get the paperwork together for the Spouse Visa all before the tourist visa expires. 

Getting a PMV offshore gives you longer to plan and get all the papers sorted.

 

Fair enough.

So if I marry her lets say by mid-Feb (end of Feb her visa will expire). And apply immediately for the spouse visa? Will it not be suspicious. Im afraid could result in a ban, or a rejection. And if it is rejected wont it be an issue for future applications? I want to play safe.

Ive been in contact with her since March 2018. Visited her in May. Will conduct an engagement ceremoney in Nov. She will visit Nov, and then again in Dec to Feb.

Families involved from both sides.

Ive heard immigration step in and say "not genuine" enough.

Edited October 24, 2018 by mikesmyth

[Marisawright]

49 minutes ago, mikesmyth said:

So if I marry her lets say by mid-Feb (end of Feb her visa will expire). And apply immediately for the spouse visa? Will it not be suspicious

So you are now discounting the PMV altogether, I think?

For the spouse visa, you  have to prove that you have ALREADY  been living together, as the equivalent of a married couple, for at least twelve months.  Getting married only a few weeks before applying isn't likely to help in proving the relationship is genuine, IMO.

When you say you've been "in contact with her" since March 2018, what do you mean?

Edited October 24, 2018 by Marisawright

[Nemesis]

54 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

So you are now discounting the PMV altogether, I think?

For the spouse visa, you  have to prove that you have ALREADY  been living together, as the equivalent of a married couple, for at least twelve months.  Getting married only a few weeks before applying isn't likely to help in proving the relationship is genuine, IMO.

When you say you've been "in contact with her" since March 2018, what do you mean?

If they are married, they do not have to prove cohabitation before marriage - that allows for people with religious/family/etc objections to cohabiting without marriage. You can apply before you  even move in together, as long as you have that marriage certificate.

However without cohabitation they will need as much evidence as possible of the relationship, and should move in together as soon as possible.

Two years down the line, when they go for PR they will be expected to show cohabitation, thats one of the reasons why the Spouse Visa has two stages,to allow for couples to marry, move in, and then prove they are still together. 

 

Edited October 24, 2018 by Nemesis

[Nemesis]

1 hour ago, mikesmyth said:

Fair enough.

So if I marry her lets say by mid-Feb (end of Feb her visa will expire). And apply immediately for the spouse visa? Will it not be suspicious. Im afraid could result in a ban, or a rejection. And if it is rejected wont it be an issue for future applications? I want to play safe.

Ive been in contact with her since March 2018. Visited her in May. Will conduct an engagement ceremoney in Nov. She will visit Nov, and then again in Dec to Feb.

Families involved from both sides.

Ive heard immigration step in and say "not genuine" enough.

Keep as much info as you can from the visits, boarding cards, evidence of visits to places together, joint invites and tickets to events. All that sort of thing prove the relationship.

Families on both sides can write a stat dec supporting the marriage and talking about meeting each of you and welcoming you to the family.

Everything sounds good. Get engaged (preferably with a party and invites!), do the trips together, get married and apply for the visa. She MUST apply before her tourist visa expires. She will then get a Bridging visa, on which she can work. You can continue to add documents to the application, so can build up a history as she gets a job, you add her to the lease of your house, add her to joint bils, make joint purchases etc. By the time they look at it you will have a good file there.

You can also do things like making wills in favour of each other,list her on the Next of Kin file at your work, when she next comes on holiday open a joint bank account and put some money in occasionally - yes, she can do that on a tourist visa.

All this is based on what I have seen hundreds of other couples do over the years, its all legit. 

 

[wrussell]

Intention to make a further application in Australia
If an applicant applies for a visitor visa but intends to make a further visa application in
Australia (whether this intention is stated or not), this does not necessarily indicate that
the applicant does not intend a genuine temporary stay and is not a reason in and of
itself to refuse the visitor visa. If the Regulations allow an application to be made in
Australia by an FA-600 visa holder in Australia, s65 delegates should not be seeking to
block this pathway.
In addition, an intention to apply for a further visa in Australia does not necessarily
indicate that the person will not leave Australia before the FA-600 visa ceases. The
question to consider is not “will this person apply for a visa in Australia” but rather, “if this
person does not apply for another visa in Australia, or if they apply and are refused, will
they abide by the conditions of the visa and will they leave Australia”. The answer to this
will help to determine if the applicant intends a genuine temporary stay.
If there is a stated intention to apply in Australia for a visa (such as a Partner visa), s65
delegates should focus on assessing if the applicant intends a genuine temporary stay in
relation to the FA-600 visa for which the person have applied – the focus is not on
assessing any relationship:
• The genuineness of a relationship will be assessed if and when a Partner application
is made. Applying for a Partner visa in Australia is a legitimate visa pathway.
• It is acceptable for a person to apply for an FA-600 visa in order to be with their
partner to maintain an established relationship.
• An applicant who discloses an intention to continue a relationship (or, enter into a
relationship (as they have not met before)) should not be disadvantaged as a result
of that disclosure
Taking a fair and reasonable approach
Officers should take a fair and reasonable approach to the genuine temporary stay
requirement, particularly if the applicant is in a continuing partner relationship with an
Australian citizen or permanent resident and/or there are children involved – refer to In a
partner relationship with an Australian citizen/resident.
The focus should be on the current intentions of the applicant. Consequently, the
genuine temporary stay requirement can be satisfied, even if there is a possibility that
the applicant might later attempt to make a further application in Australia, seek
permanent residence and/or return to Australia.
If the period of stay requested raises concerns about an applicant’s ability to meet the
genuine temporary stay requirement, case officers should consider whether a shorter
period of stay would enable them to be satisfied that the visa criteria are met.

[Mcguinnessp1968]

So you are now discounting the PMV altogether, I think?
For the spouse visa, you  have to prove that you have ALREADY  been living together, as the equivalent of a married couple, for at least twelve months.  Getting married only a few weeks before applying isn't likely to help in proving the relationship is genuine, IMO.
When you say you've been "in contact with her" since March 2018, what do you mean?

Marisa you really can be a fount of misinformation on here at times

[MaggieMay24]

There's absolutely no reason she can't come to Australia on a visitor visa in order to get married.  People have destination weddings all the time.

The issue you need to deal with is building enough evidence to show your relationship is genuine and ongoing for a partner visa application.  The advantage of the PMV is that it requires a lot less evidence.  You must be over 18 years old, you must have met in person, you must be committed to a genuine married life together.  That's pretty much it.  A partner visa (either 309/100 or 820/801) requires you to prove you are already in that genuine life together with shared finances, shared household, shared social lives, etc. and you need to prove that.

[mikesmyth]

20 hours ago, Marisawright said:

When you say you've been "in contact with her" since March 2018, what do you mean?

been talking with her every day, and visited her family in May 2018. no cohabitation.

 

19 hours ago, Nemesis said:

If they are married, they do not have to prove cohabitation before marriage - that allows for people with religious/family/etc objections to cohabiting without marriage. You can apply before you  even move in together, as long as you have that marriage certificate.

However without cohabitation they will need as much evidence as possible of the relationship, and should move in together as soon as possible.

Two years down the line, when they go for PR they will be expected to show cohabitation, thats one of the reasons why the Spouse Visa has two stages,to allow for couples to marry, move in, and then prove they are still together.

so how do I go about proving cohabitation? sorry if it sounds like a silly question. i stated on the tourist visa (as a letter address to immigration) that the girl will be staying at my place during her visits.  does that automatically imply cohabitation - esp since it was her relationship to me is listed as a "friend"

thanks for your valuable advice in the next post on how to prove a genuine relationship

 

18 minutes ago, MaggieMay24 said:

There's absolutely no reason she can't come to Australia on a visitor visa in order to get married.  People have destination weddings all the time.

The issue you need to deal with is building enough evidence to show your relationship is genuine and ongoing for a partner visa application.  The advantage of the PMV is that it requires a lot less evidence.  You must be over 18 years old, you must have met in person, you must be committed to a genuine married life together.  That's pretty much it.  A partner visa (either 309/100 or 820/801) requires you to prove you are already in that genuine life together with shared finances, shared household, shared social lives, etc. and you need to prove that. 

its just that intended marriage was not mentioned in the "reasons to visit" Australia. admittedly our fault, but we were afraid it would risk a rejection.

it looks like PMV is a better method at this point in time - hopefully it wouldnt take a full 18 months to process

[Nemesis]

4 hours ago, mikesmyth said:

 

 

its just that intended marriage was not mentioned in the "reasons to visit" Australia. admittedly our fault, but we were afraid it would risk a rejection.

it looks like PMV is a better method at this point in time - hopefully it wouldnt take a full 18 months to process

Really, stop worrying abut that one. it makes no dfference at all that it wasn't mentioned on the tourist application. or on entry. 

[mikesmyth]

Another question is the medical test... I was thinking of getting it it done in advance, but I recollect that the dept gives you a HAP ID and then you have to book it.

She will have roughly 2.5 months to stay in Australia, will it be enough time to get a medical done and submitted in time?