Why comparisons between British and Australian health systems are distorted

[newjez]

Quite amusing

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/17/world/europe/uk-nhs-france.html

[Guest The Pom Queen]

Last week I was rushed back in to hospital with a brain leak I arrived at A and E at 2:30 and had been operated on by 4:30. Even my neurologist was shocked how fast they had me in. It cost me $175 and that included my stay in a private room, meds, CT, bloods etc

[Guest The Pom Queen]

On 14/03/2018 at 08:05, Bulya said:

I can walk into a health centre on a Sunday and get an X-ray without an appointment for no charge.  That simply isn’t going to happen under the NHS

Same here, Chris seems to think 5 days for a scan is good whereas for me they have always been the same day, same for X-rays etc,

[Bulya]

5 minutes ago, The Pom Queen said:

Same here, Chris seems to think 5 days for a scan is good whereas for me they have always been the same day, same for X-rays etc,

He’s an Aussie trying to be a Pom.  Kinda weird really

[Guest The Pom Queen]

16 minutes ago, Bulya said:

He’s an Aussie trying to be a Pom.  Kinda weird really

I think deep down he loves Australia don’t you Chris (hug)

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, The Pom Queen said:

Last week I was rushed back in to hospital with a brain leak I arrived at A and E at 2:30 and had been operated on by 4:30. Even my neurologist was shocked how fast they had me in. It cost me $175 and that included my stay in a private room, meds, CT, bloods etc

Glad to hear they're looking after you!

[Guest The Pom Queen]

1 minute ago, Marisawright said:

Glad to hear they're looking after you!

Cheers hun and lovey to see you back on here .

[ssiri]

In the end it all comes down to personal experiences, we have twin boys, one broke their arm at school in Brisbane and the other broke the opposite arm in Hereford. The difference in treatment was night and day. In Brisbane our eldest was left waiting on a trolley for hour after hour literally until we almost had to drag a doctor to see him and she wasn't at all impressed. Bear in mind this was a 6 year old child in a lot of pain. Because it was at school he had to be taken by Ambulance, I asked the Paramedics whether they were going to the local Logan Hospital and he said 'Oh god no, we won't take him there' so I assumed the Brisbane Children's Hospital was the better option. As it turned out it really wasn't. My other son sent into Hereford Hospital and his treatment was bloody brilliant quite frankly. My wife after having the twins was sent home next day after fainting a couple of times and still being clearly unwell. Following an operation on my lower back in Brisbane I was released with the would infected and had to go back in for intravenous antibiotics.

Of course these things can and do happen everywhere but I'm afraid no-one will convince me that the Australian system is better than here. My wife is having a health issue at the moment, at every stage she has been seen promptly and the care has been 2nd to none. Next day to see a specialist, 5 days for a full body scan, no excessive waiting and not a single penny out of pocket etc etc. 

Now I realise there will be those who think I am making this up of course as part of my agenda, afterall I read on here only yesterday that I hate Australia.

Clearly in BOTH countries the treatment you get depends on where you live, that is very obvious. It certainly isn't restricted to just the NHS or indeed to out in the country in Australia as for us it was right in the centre of Brisbane.

Based on our personal experiences if it has to come down to which is better then the choice is very easy indeed, the NHS wins hands down..for us.

 

 

It may also be age related/skewed as well - especially in the UK. I find that the GP gatekeepers will prioritise retirees/those who are in their 50s/60s and beyond and the very young over everyone else - where as in Australia - access to tests, referrals and follow on is available. Yes we may have to pay for it via insurance or on Medicare (in part), but the focus is on diagnosis and prevention (so far in my experience here in Aus).

 

Lots of things that would have gone unnoticed with my health in the UK until the issues manifested late on in the next 5-10 years, have been tested for, rules out or identified over here. I’m now on a prevention/management plan to control my eating, exercise etc.

 

My eating and expertise etc has always been good, but in the NHS I was assessed on the basics/statistics - eat healthily, exercise a lot, not obese, working age ergo not a risk. Here in Aus, as a new comer, presenting with a family history of this and that (which was also available on my NHS records), meant a plethora of tests to baseline my state of health. It’s now prevention strategies from here on in - no medication (and long may that continue).

 

Yes it is possible to have health insurance privately in the UK, but unless cajoled, pushed or pressured, it seems to be NHS policy to not offer treatments to patients privately, if they aren’t available via the NHS. I love the NHS, the consultants, nurses and surgeons are top notch - I’ve had to use outpatient services for surgeries, many a time. I can’t fault that level of care. Maybe they need to think of offering people options, (even if it costs people) rather than turning them away - which means a fundamental re-think of the free at point of source principle, in some circumstances.

 

Hence I also think the GP gatekeeper processes seem to be wanting in the NHS, given the current funding model, ageing population and other pressures. Aus has the same problems, although at a diminished rate of growth perhaps, but the options to go private and get access at the first point of contact, aren’t all bad. Something perhaps for the NHS to ponder.

[ssiri]

Probably not then.
But why would I need one on a Sunday if it wasn't an emergency?
I thought most people had to pay for X ray outside of hospital?

I haven’t paid for any of my CT, ultrasound or X-ray tests here in Aus. Either via my GP or my other half via hospital.

[Booma]

1 hour ago, ssiri said:

 

 

It may also be age related/skewed as well - especially in the UK. I find that the GP gatekeepers will prioritise retirees/those who are in their 50s/60s and beyond and the very young over everyone else - where as in Australia - access to tests, referrals and follow on is available. Yes we may have to pay for it via insurance or on Medicare (in part), but the focus is on diagnosis and prevention (so far in my experience here in Aus).

 

Lots of things that would have gone unnoticed with my health in the UK until the issues manifested late on in the next 5-10 years, have been tested for, rules out or identified over here. I’m now on a prevention/management plan to control my eating, exercise etc.

 

My eating and expertise etc has always been good, but in the NHS I was assessed on the basics/statistics - eat healthily, exercise a lot, not obese, working age ergo not a risk. Here in Aus, as a new comer, presenting with a family history of this and that (which was also available on my NHS records), meant a plethora of tests to baseline my state of health. It’s now prevention strategies from here on in - no medication (and long may that continue).

 

Yes it is possible to have health insurance privately in the UK, but unless cajoled, pushed or pressured, it seems to be NHS policy to not offer treatments to patients privately, if they aren’t available via the NHS. I love the NHS, the consultants, nurses and surgeons are top notch - I’ve had to use outpatient services for surgeries, many a time. I can’t fault that level of care. Maybe they need to think of offering people options, (even if it costs people) rather than turning them away - which means a fundamental re-think of the free at point of source principle, in some circumstances.

 

Hence I also think the GP gatekeeper processes seem to be wanting in the NHS, given the current funding model, ageing population and other pressures. Aus has the same problems, although at a diminished rate of growth perhaps, but the options to go private and get access at the first point of contact, aren’t all bad. Something perhaps for the NHS to ponder.

my father is a consultant in uk & he says the way oz uses preventive medicine is outstanding. he thinks if the same was done in uk it would save billions & be better for patients outcomes but nhs is under so much strain it can barely cope with treating people who are already seriously ill. he thinks nhs needs a big shake up but doesn't think the average Brit is ready for the changes that would be needed.

[newjez]

1 hour ago, ssiri said:

 

 

I haven’t paid for any of my CT, ultrasound or X-ray tests here in Aus. Either via my GP or my other half via hospital.

 

 

I was under the impression that anything in hospital was free but you paid for outpatient stuff, but I may have had it wrong.

[newjez]

1 hour ago, ssiri said:

 

 

I haven’t paid for any of my CT, ultrasound or X-ray tests here in Aus. Either via my GP or my other half via hospital.

 

 

I'm confused now.

Could we establish what exactly you pay for in Australia please?

Not under insurance, and not using some sort of health care card, and even if you get some back on Medicare.

I think it could be of interest to those migrating to know exactly what they are in for, and whether they should go private.

It would also be of interest to those migrating how much extra private people have to pay.

Also, prescriptions.

I'm confused as hell and I've lived there for thirty years.

[NickyNook]

I think almost all diagnostic testing (x-ray, ultrasound, CAT, MRI and the like) are bulk billed nowadays if you go to one of the big companies.  

I certainly haven't paid for any medical tests for years, here in Sydney.

[Marisawright]

55 minutes ago, newjez said:

I'm confused now.

Could we establish what exactly you pay for in Australia please?

Not under insurance, and not using some sort of health care card, a

You pay for everything.  Medicare has a schedule listing the approved price for all services (prescriptions, tests, GP and specialist visits etc).   You get that fee as a refund, either by claiming yourself, or by authorising the GP or pathology lab to claim on your behalf.  The only question is how much money you get back from Medicare.

It's confusing because nowadays, more service providers choose to "bulk bill".   So instead of you paying the service provider a high fee, and getting part of it back, the provider charges just the schedule fee, and bills it straight to Medicare.  So it might seem to you as if it's free, but in fact it's just that the price you paid matches your refund.

 

Edited March 18, 2018 by Marisawright

[bristolman]

2 hours ago, ssiri said:

 

 

It may also be age related/skewed as well - especially in the UK. I find that the GP gatekeepers will prioritise retirees/those who are in their 50s/60s and beyond and the very young over everyone else - where as in Australia - access to tests, referrals and follow on is available. Yes we may have to pay for it via insurance or on Medicare (in part), but the focus is on diagnosis and prevention (so far in my experience here in Aus).

 

Lots of things that would have gone unnoticed with my health in the UK until the issues manifested late on in the next 5-10 years, have been tested for, rules out or identified over here. I’m now on a prevention/management plan to control my eating, exercise etc.

 

My eating and expertise etc has always been good, but in the NHS I was assessed on the basics/statistics - eat healthily, exercise a lot, not obese, working age ergo not a risk. Here in Aus, as a new comer, presenting with a family history of this and that (which was also available on my NHS records), meant a plethora of tests to baseline my state of health. It’s now prevention strategies from here on in - no medication (and long may that continue).

 

Yes it is possible to have health insurance privately in the UK, but unless cajoled, pushed or pressured, it seems to be NHS policy to not offer treatments to patients privately, if they aren’t available via the NHS. I love the NHS, the consultants, nurses and surgeons are top notch - I’ve had to use outpatient services for surgeries, many a time. I can’t fault that level of care. Maybe they need to think of offering people options, (even if it costs people) rather than turning them away - which means a fundamental re-think of the free at point of source principle, in some circumstances.

 

Hence I also think the GP gatekeeper processes seem to be wanting in the NHS, given the current funding model, ageing population and other pressures. Aus has the same problems, although at a diminished rate of growth perhaps, but the options to go private and get access at the first point of contact, aren’t all bad. Something perhaps for the NHS to ponder.

That just isn't our experience at all, my wife has an issue that is in the family if you like and she is sent for regular scans and also various other tests. My GP has bought me in for regular health checks. It took a year almost to the day for my GP to finally send me for a scan which led to me finally being treated for a double herniated disc. We can only talk about our own experiences and obviously those living in one country are going to say it's better in that country whereas there doesn't seem to be anything to back it up other than meaningless anecdotes. If you prefer to think a certain aspect is better that's fine but I can tell you judging by recent experience no-ne will convince me there is a better system somewhere else. 

[bristolman]

5 hours ago, The Pom Queen said:

I think deep down he loves Australia don’t you Chris (hug)

It's not deep down and it's not as if it's a secret ?

[bristolman]

52 minutes ago, newjez said:

I'm confused now.

Could we establish what exactly you pay for in Australia please?

Not under insurance, and not using some sort of health care card, and even if you get some back on Medicare.

I think it could be of interest to those migrating to know exactly what they are in for, and whether they should go private.

It would also be of interest to those migrating how much extra private people have to pay.

Also, prescriptions.

I'm confused as hell and I've lived there for thirty years.

My wife had to have regular scans (prevenstive) and they cost us around $600 each time. Other than that for many xrays etc are usually free. Prescription costs can be a killer depending on your financial situation. 

[Guest The Pom Queen]

4 minutes ago, bristolman said:

My wife had to have regular scans (prevenstive) and they cost us around $600 each time. Other than that for many xrays etc are usually free. Prescription costs can be a killer depending on your financial situation. 

Well you must have been unlucky, I’ve had around 50 MRI/CT scans and some other whacky ones and I’ve only ever had to pay for one but I got most of it back from Medicare. 

[Guest The Pom Queen]

6 minutes ago, bristolman said:

. Prescription costs can be a killer depending on your financial situation. 

Now that is something we do agree on, $480 a month is my current bill, although saying that once I reach the safety net it will be a third of that.

[bristolman]

2 minutes ago, The Pom Queen said:

Well you must have been unlucky, I’ve had around 50 MRI/CT scans and some other whacky ones and I’ve only ever had to pay for one but I got most of it back from Medicare. 

Not unlucky, she just had to pay it.

[bristolman]

1 minute ago, The Pom Queen said:

Now that is something we do agree on, $480 a month is my current bill, although saying that once I reach the safety net it will be a third of that.

That is ridiculous for someone in your position. 

[Wa7]

I have never quite got my head around it.

Doctors have mostly been bulk billed but anytime we have seen a specialist for a child we have been billed then small refund. Have had x - rays/ ct scans bulk billed but had a MRI and got billed..............thankfully we are a healthy family in general

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, newjez said:

I was under the impression that anything in hospital was free but you paid for outpatient stuff, but I may have had it wrong.

Like I said, you pay for everything.  The only question is whether Medicare refunds less than the hospital charges.

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, bristolman said:

That just isn't our experience at all, my wife has an issue that is in the family if you like and she is sent for regular scans and also various other tests. My GP has bought me in for regular health checks. It took a year almost to the day for my GP to finally send me for a scan which led to me finally being treated for a double herniated disc. We can only talk about our own experiences and obviously those living in one country are going to say it's better in that country whereas there doesn't seem to be anything to back it up other than meaningless anecdotes. If you prefer to think a certain aspect is better that's fine but I can tell you judging by recent experience no-ne will convince me there is a better system somewhere else. 

However, previously you have conceded that your experience, in a lower-populated area where doctors are less under pressure, is different to the experience in large cities in the UK.

[bristolman]

2 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

However, previously you have conceded that your experience, in a lower-populated area where doctors are less under pressure, is different to the experience in large cities in the UK.

Of course, I can only comment on my own experiences. Our experiences in a large city (Brisbane) was very different and probably 50% positive at best. When someone says 'in the UK you have to wait months for this' or similar comments nothing is said, it's just accepted as applying to the whole country but because we have had good experiences it is questioned. Many of our recent experiences have been in Cheltenham so not really rural.