Hucath Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Hi All I would be grateful for your advice. I have been offered a job in Syndey (96K inc. Super). They are offering a 457 visa (it is their policy and won;t change to a PR), but I;m concerned about a couple of things: 1) I;m not sure what the current exemption threshold is for school fees. I have 3 primary aged children and I worry that up to $15k of my salary will go on school fees. I can;t find any info on the threshold for exemption in NSW....only a form to complete which goes to an assessment board when you're ready to apply. 2) what is your opionion on my salary for living in Sydney (working in CBD) for a family of 5 (especially if I have to pay for school fees!) My sincere thanks for your time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAW Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Hi Hucath, A fellow newbie! Hi and welcome to PIO! No experiential information from me about surviving on that salary in Sydney as we are still in the UK. But, from what I have read you may struggle on this salary. It all depends on other factors like will your partner work? Where will you live? Close to CBD, suburbs? etc. Sydney is the most expensive city to live in with regard to house prices I believe. I would also be a bit concerned about going on a 457 with young children. It is, as you'll know, a temporary visa with certain conditions if you lose your employment for any reason. I think the last I knew you had 90 days to gain new employment or leave Australia. You note it is their policy and won't change to PR...are you happy with that...i.e. you are going for the experience with no view to making it a permanent move? What type of employment are you in, as the move may be more secure, depending on the industry? I'm sure some more experienced folks will be along in a minute to say a bit more... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Hi @Hucath ok the fee exemption will be granted on income below $57,000. I would love to say jump at the chance as Australia is a wonderful country and a great place to bring up children, but, in Sydney for a family of 5 with no family tax credit or rent assistance available I think you will struggle. If you were heading to Melbourne or if it was a PR visa and you could get it topped up with Family Tax Benefits I think it would just be doable but at a push. Could your wife work? Have you plenty of savings? Are you willing to cut back on all spending, have no luxuries, live away from the city and have a longer commute. Maybe it would work. I've seen people survive on a hell of a lot less. A family of 4 survive on a third of that, so it can but it's hard. Below is the text you were looking for in regards to school fees. http://absoluteimmigration.com/457-visa-holders-to-face-school-fees-from-2017/ From next year, newly arrived 457 visa holders will be required to contribute to the cost of their child’s education, even if they are attending a government school. This rule will then be extended to all 457 visa holders from January 2018 onwards. The government has announced that the amount payable will be determined by family circumstances, and from 2017 will likely be $5,100 each for primary school aged students. While those with children attending high school will need to make a $6,100 annual contribution, this amount will only be charged for the eldest child, with subsequent siblings each receiving a 10% discount. Parents will also be given the option of paying the contribution in regular instalments, upfront annually, or on semester or term basis. 457 visa holders will also be exempt from having to make the contribution if their household earns a combined gross income below $57,000. A means test will be employed to determine the required contribution rate, and will take into account various factors, such as the number of children who will be attending school. Reports have indicated that families with only one school-aged child will not be liable to pay the full contribution fee unless their gross family income exceeds $77,000, with this threshold increasing by $10,000 for each additional child. 457 visa holders are also eligible to apply for a full or partial waiver of fees, however these exemptions are typically only granted in cases of exceptional financial hardship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Including super and having 3 kids to educate, that’s not great. Exemptions are on a case by case basis according to the brochure. As you’d be above the national average salary I don’t think you’d have too much joy. https://schoolsequella.det.nsw.edu.au/file/af2345bd-f02a-4700-9fbb-55338904d1c9/1/fee-exemption.pdf You can do it cheaper by sending your kids to Catholic schools but it’s still going to cost you a huge chunk of change. Other things to bear in mind are that your partner may struggle to find work, especially serious career related work as temp dependents aren’t an attractive proposition to employers. If I had to pick a figure out of the air where you’d get by with reasonable comfort, I’d say $120k exc super. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 3 minutes ago, The Pom Queen said: Hi @Hucath ok the fee exemption will be granted on income below $57,000. I would love to say jump at the chance as Australia is a wonderful country and a great place to bring up children, but, in Sydney for a family of 5 with no family tax credit or rent assistance available I think you will struggle. If you were heading to Melbourne or if it was a PR visa and you could get it topped up with Family Tax Benefits I think it would just be doable but at a push. Could your wife work? Have you plenty of savings? Are you willing to cut back on all spending, have no luxuries, live away from the city and have a longer commute. Maybe it would work. I've seen people survive on a hell of a lot less. A family of 4 survive on a third of that, so it can but it's hard. Below is the text you were looking for in regards to school fees. http://absoluteimmigration.com/457-visa-holders-to-face-school-fees-from-2017/ From next year, newly arrived 457 visa holders will be required to contribute to the cost of their child’s education, even if they are attending a government school. This rule will then be extended to all 457 visa holders from January 2018 onwards. The government has announced that the amount payable will be determined by family circumstances, and from 2017 will likely be $5,100 each for primary school aged students. While those with children attending high school will need to make a $6,100 annual contribution, this amount will only be charged for the eldest child, with subsequent siblings each receiving a 10% discount. Parents will also be given the option of paying the contribution in regular instalments, upfront annually, or on semester or term basis. 457 visa holders will also be exempt from having to make the contribution if their household earns a combined gross income below $57,000. A means test will be employed to determine the required contribution rate, and will take into account various factors, such as the number of children who will be attending school. Reports have indicated that families with only one school-aged child will not be liable to pay the full contribution fee unless their gross family income exceeds $77,000, with this threshold increasing by $10,000 for each additional child. 457 visa holders are also eligible to apply for a full or partial waiver of fees, however these exemptions are typically only granted in cases of exceptional financial hardship. That’s SA I think. NSW is more draconian and they’ve been charging since the year dot. Not all states charge yet - yet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 20 minutes ago, Quoll said: That’s SA I think. NSW is more draconian and they’ve been charging since the year dot. Not all states charge yet - yet! Yes it looks like you are right. How ridiculous that they don't provide this information to people before they arrive. Why have them complete all the paperwork and then say sorry you earn too much. The only other place I can find anything is here on Poms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottieGirl Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Your take home will be about $5900 per month. I spent $1800 a month on bills and food and I am single. Rent was $2800 a month for a 2 bed house about 40 minutes commute from the CBD. So I think you will really struggle with a family of 5. You could look at living a lot further out but you will have a long commute. Check out rental prices on Domain.com.au This will be your biggest expense. Prices quoted will be weekly not monthly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKC Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 A salary of $96k including super would give you a take home pay packet of about $87,600 after tax and super is taken out (just under $1700 per week). Obviously you need to factor in school fees of $15k with three children, so your actual take home after paying for school would be around $72600 (just under $1400 per week). Obviously you've rental costs, transport costs, food, utilities, other school costs (uniforms, school books which you have to pay for, excursions etc) to pay for out of that. Rent will be your biggest expense, but that will depend on where you are based. The more outlying suburbs are cheaper generally, but of course then you have longer commute times and higher transportation costs. We're a family of four, and I would spend approximately $300-350 per week on food and things from the supermarket. Electricity was about $700 per quarter, water about $350 per quarter. Phone and internet was $135 per month, mobile phones were $120-ish. Of course this is just a vague idea of costs, there are other things like insurances, petrol etc on top of this. To be completely honest, on that sort of salary I think you'd struggle, unless your partner could also work (though as Quoll said, employment for the dependent on a 457 can be tricky to find). I'd also be a bit reluctant to move over on a 457 with children, particularly if the company has already stated there is no chance of offering PR. You could treat it as a temporary adventure, depending on where your kids are in the schooling system (i.e. not in the middle of GCSE prep or anything), but unless you had some savings behind you I think you'd find it a struggle. I don't know whether you could apply for PR independently, though? That would depend on your job, but would give you more security (and the benefit of not paying the school fees). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hucath Posted November 1, 2017 Author Share Posted November 1, 2017 Hi Thank you all so much for all your helpful comments. It sounds as if the offer might not be quite as good as I hoped :-( but I am thankful for the reality check. My husband could work - I imagine it would be good for him to secure a job prior to us going but I can see why it may be less attractive to employers. The 457 really appears to be an unwelcoming visa! I will look into the Cathloic school route too thanks. My children are all primary age so we could make it an adventure - which I am very tempted to do! - but I don;t want it ruined by a constant worry of being skint! - saying that we're skint in the UK so at least we would be warm and poor! Thanks so much again for all of your replies, I am sincerely grateful for the time you have taken to get back to me. Please can I ask one more question: Does anyone know if you can convert to a PR visa once in Australia? Best wishes 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evets Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 (edited) As others have said, the salary offered is not great for Sydney. Add to that you are a family of 4, I personally think it would(will) be a struggle. Cost of living is higher than you would expect. The comment: at least we would be warm and poor! You may not be saying that once you have experienced a winter. While you do not get snow, houses have little to no insulation, no double glazing so you will feel the cold much more. Add to this higher electric bills, which are already high, during winter to keep the place warm. The old art deco houses are great in the summer, but shocking in winter. I owned more thermal clothes in Australia than I ever did in the UK. Once you are in Australia on the 457, you could apply for PR, I believe after 2 years, by yourself but not so sure now with all the changes that have taken place this year. Note: I believe your occupation must be on the SOL to apply for yourself and family. So it may be possible. Can you see the salary increasing much in the future. What about your partner, would they work and be able to to help you get past the skintness. EDIT If you and the family are looking for an adventure and some new experiences, go for it. But the reality of packing up and having to head home with no or little savings, will be a lot harder. You mention being skint in the UK, do you own your own property? Sydney is one of the most expensive cities in the world for renting/buying. The Australia dream sold to the UK, is a far cry from the reality of living there. Remember once you get your foot in the door and if eligible for PR, Sydney could be a stepping stone to other (cheaper) parts of Australia. All depending on what you and your family are looking for. Edited November 2, 2017 by evets More info 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hucath Posted November 3, 2017 Author Share Posted November 3, 2017 Hi Evets Many thanks for your reply too. And for your candidness. My apologies, I realise I was being a bit flippant with the poor and cold thing, you're right, I have spent quite some time in Brisbane winters and it gets cold there so Sydney must do! Thanks for the reminder. My husband would work and that is the plan, so finances should be better once we are established, I just wanted to base my calculation on worst case scenario so that we don;t led ourselves along the wrong path. My sister also lives in Sydney and she is away for the first two months after we would arrive (if we go) so that would give us some breahting space to get ourselves a home etc...so that is all positive but my worry is obviously the visa/school issue..... It is good to know that for now at least the PR thing might be a possibility. I will need to make a decision about accepting the job by next week so lots to think about. Again my thanks for your time and input Best wishes All. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 42 minutes ago, Hucath said: Hi Evets Many thanks for your reply too. And for your candidness. My apologies, I realise I was being a bit flippant with the poor and cold thing, you're right, I have spent quite some time in Brisbane winters and it gets cold there so Sydney must do! Thanks for the reminder. My husband would work and that is the plan, so finances should be better once we are established, I just wanted to base my calculation on worst case scenario so that we don;t led ourselves along the wrong path. My sister also lives in Sydney and she is away for the first two months after we would arrive (if we go) so that would give us some breahting space to get ourselves a home etc...so that is all positive but my worry is obviously the visa/school issue..... It is good to know that for now at least the PR thing might be a possibility. I will need to make a decision about accepting the job by next week so lots to think about. Again my thanks for your time and input Best wishes All. Hi again @Hucath to me it sounds like you have a positive attitude and some get up and go, I think this makes a huge difference. Some people have given up hope before they get out here. Do you own your home in the UK, would you be able to keep it in for 12 months to see how things work out. If you do make the move please don't make a decision at 6 months because I think that is the turning point for a lot of people, I worked in relocation down in Melbourne and I would say 80% of our clients had the urge to return home between 4 - 6 months. Some did, maybe 10%, but those who stayed said it was the best move they have made and would never return to the UK. I think we all go through the phase where the honeymoon period is over and It hits home that we still need to work, do the dishes etc and life isn't so much different during the working week. Will you be working for a company that has incentives like free health insurance etc, that would help keep costs down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hucath Posted November 3, 2017 Author Share Posted November 3, 2017 Thanks Pom Queen, That was lovely to get some encouragement, thanks! And for the vauable advice about the 6 month turning point, something to remember. Tbh I have spent so much time thinking about it all, that I've almost forgetten why I applied for the job in the first place which was beacuse I have always wanted to live in Oz, having visiting very many times. I't s real rollercoaster of a decision isn;t it! I know my husband feels conflicted too (though happy to give it a try) and my eldest child is not that keen.....but I know shed love it' once she got there...... The company is a charity working in healthcare and research so I'm not sure they will have many incentives, other than annual pay increments so I don't think I could count on anything like that.....but that does remind me to ask.. (sorry another question) iIth the recipricol health agreement between the UK and Autralia, do you know if that means we can access all heathcare as we would in the UK (bearing in mind a 457 visa?). Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Hucath said: Thanks Pom Queen, That was lovely to get some encouragement, thanks! And for the vauable advice about the 6 month turning point, something to remember. Tbh I have spent so much time thinking about it all, that I've almost forgetten why I applied for the job in the first place which was beacuse I have always wanted to live in Oz, having visiting very many times. I't s real rollercoaster of a decision isn;t it! I know my husband feels conflicted too (though happy to give it a try) and my eldest child is not that keen.....but I know shed love it' once she got there...... The company is a charity working in healthcare and research so I'm not sure they will have many incentives, other than annual pay increments so I don't think I could count on anything like that.....but that does remind me to ask.. (sorry another question) iIth the recipricol health agreement between the UK and Autralia, do you know if that means we can access all heathcare as we would in the UK (bearing in mind a 457 visa?). Thanks again! The reciprocal agreement covers only necessary medical intervention so if you have a kid who might need their tonsils removed for example, that would probably be considered elective so they’d expect you to either pay for it or go home for it. Things like orthodontics aren’t covered by Medicare (ball park $6-8k) and there is a co-pay system where the government actually expects you to pay part of the cost of GP visits (about $35 a time, specialists cost more usually at around $110-150) but Pom migrants, in particular, seem hell bent on finding bulk billing (ie no out of pocket costs) doctors but the cost there is that you don’t usually get continuity of care. Medications will cost you up to about $35 per fill and that’s not covered. Ancillary therapies aren’t covered. I think with kids I would be inclined to take out private health insurance - no idea how much it is now but I would be thinking $300-400 per month. Charities do often actually have some quite generous salary sacrificing provisions whereby you get around $17k extra tax free - there are different set ups for each employer but it’s worth asking about. So you might be able to pay your rent out of pre-tax income for example. If you do give it a try I would suggest taking a career break if you can - especially your husband if he currently has a decent job as he’s going to struggle to find much that’s meaningful and career related unless he has a highly in demand skill set. You never know whether kids will love it or not. Some kids really miss extended family if they are quite close and around year 5 and year 9 breaking into friendship groups at school can be quite tricky (Queen Bee ages for girls) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hucath Posted November 3, 2017 Author Share Posted November 3, 2017 Thanks Quoll, I appreciate it, Yes the do offer the salary sacrifice scheme which will help.But I'll definietly look into the private healthcare and see if there is anything m employer might be able to offer. Am waiting to hear back from them about some other requests that I have so will add that to the list! Many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 I was thinking, as I often do when I read these topics, that only people who earn more than $200 000 a year can afford to bring up a family in Sydney. Both parents working full time is common enough of course, anywhere. I do know some young families too, the couple in my local Cafe bring their two little boys in at the weekend. They are working 7 days too. Their boys chorused "Hello David" when I went in today! I'll ask them tomorrow what their budget is? My brother and his wife struggled at times bringing their two up, paying mortgage, but again that's not unusual. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainR Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 On 05/11/2017 at 17:49, MARYROSE02 said: I was thinking, as I often do when I read these topics, that only people who earn more than $200 000 a year can afford to bring up a family in Sydney. Both parents working full time is common enough of course, anywhere. I do know some young families too, the couple in my local Cafe bring their two little boys in at the weekend. They are working 7 days too. Their boys chorused "Hello David" when I went in today! I'll ask them tomorrow what their budget is? My brother and his wife struggled at times bringing their two up, paying mortgage, but again that's not unusual. I think you need both husband and wife earning $200,000+ a year each to afford to live in Sydney now. Hence why so many people live in the Shire, Outer West/Blue Mountains, Central Coast and commute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKC Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 26 minutes ago, CaptainR said: I think you need both husband and wife earning $200,000+ a year each to afford to live in Sydney now. Hence why so many people live in the Shire, Outer West/Blue Mountains, Central Coast and commute. The Shire isn't that cheap now either. One of the many reasons we decided to leave when we did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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