Guest The Pom Queen Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 "We are concerned for those that come after us. It's not enough to say we got through the gates and to hell with the rest." That was the concerned message of multicultural community leaders in Canberra rallying against proposed changes to the citizenship test at public forum held at the Theo Notaras Multicultural Centre on Wednesday. Chair of the Canberra Multicultural Community Forum Diana Abdel-Rahman rejected the government's rationale that introducing a university level english requirement and providing applicants with just three chances would have any impact on national security. "What really irks me about all of this is some of the politicians who are pushing for a citizenship test actually are the children of migrants," she said. "Their families would not have spoken English when they arrived to Australia. That's the hypocrisy of it all." She said her father arrived from Lebanon by boat in 1951 with just a handful of phrases he'd picked up in conversation with ANZAC soldiers. He learnt English without instruction whilst running several successful businesses. The legislation, if enacted, would fundamentally change how Australia defined itself, Federation of Ethnic Community Councils Australia director Emma Campbell said. "Australia's multicultural society is successful and harmonious because it welcomed people as citizens early on in their migration journey," she said. "This replaces that successful model ... with a model that has failed in Europe. Where you have generations of people who are a permanent underclass because they are not ethnically German, because not enough of their generations have been born in Switzerland." Many in attendance spoke of how the changes would exacerbate pressure on migrants struggling to establish themselves and didn't account for the realities of trauma, and gaps in education which were so common. "A young person who has been in a refugee camp in Kenya, who has missed out on any schooling is given three chances, three strikes and you are out," CMCF deputy chair Harry Opperman said. "Why set the barrier to make the feeling that one is not wanted, not part of society, excluded?" Member for Canberra Gai Brodtmann said Labor opposed the package and urged those at the forum to put forward their views to the Senate inquiry into the citizenship law changes. "This announcement affects real people's lives and the decisions they've made for their families, I am very aware of the unnecessary distress this is causing the community." Ms Brodtmann said those applying for citizenship had already been subject to strict character and security checks and the government's claim this was a national security issue was "absurd." Ms Abdel-Rahman said 2016 census figures showed not having a migration story, either personally or through your family, was the minority Australian experience. The "us and them" rhetoric was too easy to see through, she said. "We need migration to enable Australia to move forward. Australians are savvy. We will not be fooled, we will fight this, but we will not be fooled." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 What a lot of rubbish spouted by a pressure group. University level English is not required. That's a blatant and deliberate lie. Your not out if you fail the test. Another blatant lie. Many people don't take citizenship. On the forum we have members who have been in Australia decades and not bothered. The reason Europe, including the UK has an underclass of migrants is because they can't speak English. If someone can't speak English in an English speaking country it severely limits opportunity. If anything, it should be a requirement at much earlier stages and across all visas. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 What is the source of the article? Is there a link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike@Bonbeach Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 The chair of a Multicultural Community Leaders Forum would say that, wouldn't she? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicF Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 16 hours ago, VERYSTORMY said: What a lot of rubbish spouted by a pressure group. University level English is not required. That's a blatant and deliberate lie. Not according to the ABC it's not http://www.abc.net.au/news/factcheck/2017-06-28/tony-burke-citizenship-test-university-level-english-dutton/8656754. Basically people wanting to become citizens will have to have the same level of English as people wanting to study at University in Australia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silencio Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 (edited) I wish to add another blatant lie by the 'Multicultural Leader". Germany for example didn't allow dual nationality per se by law like the UK or Australia (only limited dual citizenship is allowed in Germany to members of the European Union) and let people obtain citizenship but it's mandatory for the individual to revoke the person's citizenship of origin but only if from non-European countries.Most migrants from those non-European countries simply don't want to give up their citizenship of their home country! It's easy for them to obtain a German passport if they really want to but don't want to pay the price. The same is true for Norway which doesn't allow dual nationality and some other European countries like Austria, Poland, France (but only for French nationals) don't allow dual citizenship. Many migrants from certain countries simply prefer to have stronger ties to their country of origin and therefore see no need to take out citizenship of their 'adopted' country. So this article is just an unverified empty platitude. Edited July 2, 2017 by silencio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 13 hours ago, NicF said: Not according to the ABC it's not http://www.abc.net.au/news/factcheck/2017-06-28/tony-burke-citizenship-test-university-level-english-dutton/8656754. Basically people wanting to become citizens will have to have the same level of English as people wanting to study at University in Australia. No, it means you have to have functional English. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicF Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 3 hours ago, VERYSTORMY said: No, it means you have to have functional English. Well maybe you should contact the ABC and tell them they are wrong and people do not need to have the same level of English as students studying at Australian Universities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 54 minutes ago, NicF said: Well maybe you should contact the ABC and tell them they are wrong and people do not need to have the same level of English as students studying at Australian Universities. There is no 'level of English' for students studying at Australian Universities. Most of those students can just sign up for courses, no English test required. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicF Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Nemesis said: There is no 'level of English' for students studying at Australian Universities. Most of those students can just sign up for courses, no English test required. For domestic students maybe, but there is for International students. University of Adelaide English requirements http://international.adelaide.edu.au/apply/admission/ University of South Australia English language requirements https://www.unisa.edu.au/Study-at-UniSA/International-students/How-to-apply/English-language-requirements/ Univeristy of Melbourne English language requirements https://futurestudents.unimelb.edu.au/admissions/entry-requirements/language-requirements I haven't checked the other Australian Univeristies but don't see why they would be any different. Edited July 3, 2017 by NicF Added a bit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, NicF said: For domestic students maybe, but there is for International students. University of Adelaide English requirements http://international.adelaide.edu.au/apply/admission/ University of South Australia English language requirements https://www.unisa.edu.au/Study-at-UniSA/International-students/How-to-apply/English-language-requirements/ Univeristy of Melbourne English language requirements https://futurestudents.unimelb.edu.au/admissions/entry-requirements/language-requirements I haven't checked the other Australian Univeristies but don't see why they would be any different. agreed, but its misleading to say that there is a level of English required for study at Australian universities. The statement itself is wrong and should have had more detail. I worked with some ozzies studying for Masters degrees and they struggled to put together decent sentences at times. Certainly would never have passed IELTS at a high level! Edited July 3, 2017 by Nemesis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottieGirl Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 I agree. There are many excellent overseas science and technology students at UTS but there English is somewhat poorer than their maths. One reason they study here is to improve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight7 Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 My husband often gets work correcting the English of Masters and PHd students studying engineering. Their maths is usually good but the English ..bleugghh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johndoe Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 7 hours ago, ScottieGirl said: I agree. There are many excellent overseas science and technology students at UTS but there English is somewhat poorer than their maths. One reason they study here is to improve it. Couldn't resist and I'm not a spelling/grammar Nazi but............. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottieGirl Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 2 hours ago, Johndoe said: Couldn't resist and I'm not a spelling/grammar Nazi but............. :-) No but I am so you are allowed ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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