Sydney............ What a disappointment!!

[Guest The Pom Queen]

On 19/04/2017 at 6:36 PM, SteveandKirsty said:

Sydney is a typical 'big' city.  It was the first Australian place I saw, not only was I overawed by how busy it was but it rained and rained (and then rained some more) I couldn't wait to leave!  Went back again (twice) later on and liked it a lot more (even though it was still raining) but I couldn't ever live there. 

Can I ask where you do live, ie is it one of the other cities?

[themaccas]

I love Sydney, I also love Melbourne, Hobart and Noosa I could live in all of them! However we chose Sydney when we arrived here 5 years ago. There are some beautiful parts most tourists miss as they concentrate on visiting the city icons where no one actually lives. Sydneys main issue is the transport infrastructure which is undergoing major redevelopment but at the moment my commute is painful! Despite this the food is amazing, the jobs (I speak for my family) have worked out better than we could have hoped and we know we made the right choice on where to live. We live south west Sydney, cheaper to buy a house and less populated (at the moment!)


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[Bobj]

Never seen such a schemozzle as the hook turns in Smellbum and the 5 Ways at Camberwell (1963)..Err, umm...except for the ridiculous pommy idea of cutting across the oncoming traffic to get a parking possy, facing the wrong way; then crossing oncoming traffic to get back to the correct side of the road...

Cheers, Bobj.

[MARYROSE02]

On 17/04/2017 at 13:10, Toots said:

I must be the odd one out here.  I really enjoyed life in Sydney for well over 20 years and it was only getting to retirement age that I decided I'd had enough of city living.  I used to spend most weekends with friends on their property near Bathurst where we shared a horse.  After they sold up and moved to Nelson Bay husband and I started looking for a place outside Sydney.  Looked at lots of places south of Sydney and nearly bought a house near Ulladulla but in the end we both preferred Tasmania where we had spent many happy holidays.

Our 2nd son has his own place in Newtown (Sydney) and has a good job and is very content there - good friends and a girlfriend.  Other son overseas.  We were very lucky to buy in Sydney when house prices were"normal".  Wouldn't like to be starting out there all over again now.  I haven't been back since we moved here (over 3 years ago) but it's my turn to catch up with friends - they have been here a couple of times - so I'm looking forward to seeing the place again.  

 

 

 

 

I never intended to come to Sydney when I was planning for Australia, Perth being my preferred destination, and I would still be there now if I'd got a job because I loved it from the moment I arrived. I was going back to England and then I thought "I'd better see the Harbour Bridge, Opera House and Bondi Beach in case I never get the chance again." Now It's home and moving to Melbourne or Brisbane, however nice they might be, would be tantamount to ditching Tottenham to support Arsenal or Chelsea.

Bondi Beach is tacky in places and with some ugly buildings but the beach itself is magnificent and that is what people go for. Personally, I prefer Bronte or Clovelly or the Harbour beaches but I recently rediscovered Bondi, or more specifically North Bondi and I didn't even mind paying to park there. Also, a couple of years ago, I went to Bondi on Xmas Day for the first time and that was an experience (unlike the drunken mayhem at Coogee last Xmas!) Perth has some great city beaches but I'm pretty sure that neither Brisbane nor Melbourne have surf beaches in the city itself, not that beaches are the be all and end all but I'm used to living close to the beach ever since I was in England.

I was in the city on Saturday arvo and was shocked to see what a shambles George Street is with the light rail works, though it's the same here in Surry Hills in Devonshire Street.

I don't want to get into one-upmanship (up person?) about Sydney but there's no denying the Harbour Bridge and Opera House (and Bondi Beach) are world-famous. I guess it's cheaper to buy a home in Melbourne or Brisbane but I imagine the traffic and crowds are much the same. Yes, Sydney is expensive to live in but then so are the other great cities, London, New York, etc. People sometimes forget what the Sydney Opera House was built for, not a tourist attraction but to attract the world's top opera and classical music performers. The Sydney Opera has its rehearsal room near me and I often see musicians and singers around and in the local cafes. I spoke to an American guy not long ago who told me he was here to play Don Giovanni.

I think it's time for me to carry out another straw poll amongst the young guys and girls I know from overseas and ask them what they like or dislike about Sydney and whether they would move. I was talking to a young guy from Perth in the pub who told me he misses Perth but as an aspiring chef Sydney is where the top restaurants are. I often ask young and not so young people if they like it here meaning OZ as a whole but as we are in Sydney I guess it means the same thing and they alway say the same thing. Yes, they love it here! Who am I to argue with them

[Petals]

I lived in Sydney for a few years and then moved to Melbourne.    Melbourne is not as scenic and the centre can be described as bricks and mortar dull.   However there is no comparison to the lifestyle.    I was single then and when my friends and i moved to Melbourne it was so much easier to get somewhere to live.   The places we had lived in Sydney at the time, Neutral Bay, McMahons Point had been furnished apartments.    Much more choice in Melbourne.     Still here after all this time and still think its the best place to live out of the larger cities.      I will probably move at some stage but it will be up to the Murray or somewhere like that, somewhere where I can get back to Melbourne.

[Guest263228]

On ‎16‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 13:55, ScottieGirl said:

I did live in a harbourside suburb but I moved there 15 years ago when the dollar was worth 33p. I completely agree that Sydney is about the harbour and beaches. If you can't afford to live in the inner harbour zone what's the point. I am also struck by how much more relaxed people are back home where the cost of housing is so much less.

I agree. I certainly find countries/cities without the housing tensions around affordability far more consistent to relaxed living. Even in economically poorer countries. The ability to be able to socialise outside without having to almost sell an organ assists as well.

I suspect any nation that 'grounds' itself so much in material pursuit will never enable a relaxed population either. As such I really find it largely a myth the relaxed nature of Australian cities. Perceptions may well lead towards that conclusion for visitors and more 'newly arrived' on these shores, but the reality suggests something else.

[Toots]

14 minutes ago, Pura Vida said:

I agree. I certainly find countries/cities without the housing tensions around affordability far more consistent to relaxed living. Even in economically poorer countries. The ability to be able to socialise outside without having to almost sell an organ assists as well.

I suspect any nation that 'grounds' itself so much in material pursuit will never enable a relaxed population either. As such I really find it largely a myth the relaxed nature of Australian cities. Perceptions may well lead towards that conclusion for visitors and more 'newly arrived' on these shores, but the reality suggests something else.

I used to think rent control was a good idea such as happens in some European countries but apparently it does have its pitfalls too. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/19/why-stockholm-housing-rules-rent-control-flat

[Guest263228]

1 hour ago, Toots said:

I used to think rent control was a good idea such as happens in some European countries but apparently it does have its pitfalls too. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/19/why-stockholm-housing-rules-rent-control-flat

Interesting article. The thing is without rental controls it becomes close to impossible for working people. That happened in London. We have rental controlled flats in Europe, and I can tell you the rents have been stable for years.  Problem being the costs around them grow by the year with minimal opportunity to pass any to the occupier. Property Management companies are a complete rip off. They have advised of another step increase for the coming year, for doing near enough nothing. More often than not have to solve the problem from here and instruct them what to do. Not that easy to change company either.

Our tenants are all long termers of years standing, though one was giving 'trouble' the first year, with demands, he has quietened  down being made aware of the shortage of ideally located, very fair priced, high demand apartments.

Without rent protection though these people would have little chance to live in inner locations, close to jobs and education. The lack of affordable accommodation is having a heavy cost in numerous cities like Amsterdam and Berlin as well. Governments and local city councils of a more 'free market' persuasion are given greater free reign to developers to redesign neighbourhoods once the habitat of a wider cross section of the population.  

Sweden I believe went through a price boom in housing that impacted on the overall market. With a rather high immigration intake along with expensive housing , unfortunate issues appear to have risen.  

Edited May 18, 2017 by Pura Vida

[MARYROSE02]

On 16/04/2017 at 09:30, MissionMelbourne said:

 

I liiked Benidorm and the last time I went there my hotel was full of Spaniards and I also remember seeing a drunken band of guys in swimming trunks and thinking "Bloody Pommies" and then I realized they were Spanish.

The truth is, seaside resorts are as much a part of a country as anywhere else unless you are going to argue that Blackpool, Bournemouth, Newquay, Ilfracombe, Bude, St Ives, etc, etc, are not really "true" British towns or cities.

[MARYROSE02]

On 06/05/2017 at 05:30, themaccas said:

I love Sydney, I also love Melbourne, Hobart and Noosa I could live in all of them! However we chose Sydney when we arrived here 5 years ago. There are some beautiful parts most tourists miss as they concentrate on visiting the city icons where no one actually lives. Sydneys main issue is the transport infrastructure which is undergoing major redevelopment but at the moment my commute is painful! Despite this the food is amazing, the jobs (I speak for my family) have worked out better than we could have hoped and we know we made the right choice on where to live. We live south west Sydney, cheaper to buy a house and less populated (at the moment!)


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I was looking at the works in Devonshire St between Chalmers St and Elizabeth St and thinking for the 1000th time "What the **** are they doing there?" But the tracks are on Elizabeth Street now outside the Strawberry Hills pub.

This is my home. I suspect peoiple who don't like Sydney don't like Australia. Would they like London or New York or any other city that is crowded with horrible traffic and endless commuting? "London is MUCH better than Sydney,. I JUST adore driving on the M25 in the peak hour."

Amazing food? Yes, you are right. Within a kilometre of my home there is an United Nations of food, from A to Z.

Bottom line, Sydney is the Big Apple of Australia.

[MARYROSE02]

On 16/04/2017 at 09:50, Toots said:

So many gorgeous beaches around Sydney and Bondi is definitely the worst.  It seems to still attract loads of UK and European backpackers though.

You are confusing the beach itself with the human infrastructure which applies to most places with magnificent beaches - Benidorm - what are they called? Sunrise and Sunset?: I can't remember. I loved Newquay because it reminded me of Sydney with the surf beaches and even Aussie life guards but in the town centre, ugh, the worst of Pommie Saturday night chavs.

I've never been to Rio but I imagine people aren't thinking of the favelas when they wax lyrical about the beaches and Bondi has nothing like them .

Bottom line, from reading these posts, people are not really happy with their lives in Sydney. It happens, occasionally,, but as I said before Sydney is the Big Apple, Melbourne, as good as it is, is still Chicago by comparison.

[aconcannon]

Being a Sydneysider myself I'm probably being a little biased, but to judge a gigantic city based on 5 days in the CBD is just crazy! I've visited every capital city in Australia and without a doubt Sydney is my favourite. The scenery is so incredibly beautiful and diverse, from the northern beaches through to the eastern suburbs. I'm guessing you didn't leave the inner city suburbs if your entire opinion & post is based on that?

[MARYROSE02]

On 16/04/2017 at 04:16, InkBlots said:

Bondi Beach was my biggest disappointment with Sydney, world famous, but grossly overrated.
I haven't lived in Sydney, only Melbourne and Adelaide, and like them both.
 
 

Perhaps you just went to the wrong parts of Bondi. If you are a local you know that North Bondi RSL is nicknamed "The Rathouse" because it was started by former members of the Desert Rats in North Africa. Tourists assume that nobody lives in Bondi but backpackers but they are a minority (albeit a noisy one.) North Bondi RSL has a great view over the beach as does the road above the club where I always stop if I'm driving. At the other end of the beach is Bondi Icebergs which also has a brilliant view over the beach

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Edited May 20, 2017 by MARYROSE02
Add some text.

[MARYROSE02]

On 19/04/2017 at 11:49, Smiths said:

Sydney requires local knowledge as its so big.  Takes years to get to know it well.

Isn't that part of the fun. I did not get to know Penrith until I worked there and it's been the same with Parramatta, both places I knew superficially of course, but never had reasons to go there.

Also, when I lived with my brother, i used to go out every afternoon either by car or public transport, choosing a suburb at random, then exploring it, including going for coffee or beer in any cafe or bar I could find.

On holiday in London I liked to do the same thing, getting on the first bus that arrived at the stop and travelling to its destination.

[MARYROSE02]

On 19/05/2017 at 15:38, aconcannon said:

Being a Sydneysider myself I'm probably being a little biased, but to judge a gigantic city based on 5 days in the CBD is just crazy! I've visited every capital city in Australia and without a doubt Sydney is my favourite. The scenery is so incredibly beautiful and diverse, from the northern beaches through to the eastern suburbs. I'm guessing you didn't leave the inner city suburbs if your entire opinion & post is based on that?

Yes there are some jaundiced views of Sydney in this thread, some of them expressed by people on short visits, others by people who tried to live there but were unable to adjust. I think I saw a comment somewhere asking what the point is of living in Sydney if you don't live on the harbour or ocean but Sydney only "started" on the harbour. The true geographical centre of greater Sydney is at Parramatta 20 kilometres west of Sydney CBD. People who live at Penrith or Campbelltown, for example, are 60 kilometres from Sydney, which means, in the case of Penrith, closer to 70 to get to Bondi, Coogee, Bronte, and Clovelly. I think if you live in Campbelltown you can cut across to the coast south of Sydney. All the state capitals are on the coast but with lots of people living far from the beaches.

If you are in any place where you are not happy you often pick out the perceived bad points. I had a wonderful week in London once staying at the Strand Palace Hotel, and an equally awful week staying in a grotty hostel type hotel when I did not want to be there. All the great attractions of London were nearby and I went to most of them, National Portrait Gallery, National Gallery, Imperial War Museum, British Museum, etc, but I was ill and lonely and I hated being there, but of course I'm not judging London on that unpleasant week.

Come to think of it I did not like Sydney at first sight, or Adelaide, because I had fallen in love with Perth but I'd never dismiss Adelaide as a dump on that basis. Sydney is my home, warts and all, and I'm not blind to those "warts". Taking nearly two hours to drive from Surry Hills to Campbelltown in the Friday arvo rush (sic) hour for instance. The traffic was appalling, taking over a hour to get from Moore Park to the southern end of the main tunnel. People do that journey ten times a week too. I don't suppose it's too different to the M25 though.

I'm not knocking Melbourne either and although I've not been there very much myself I know many people who have told me they love it and prefer it to Sydney! I love watching AFL for one thing which is reason enough to live there. But being a similar size to Sydney (and Brisbane not far behind, perhaps more if you include the Gold Coast) I'm sure the traffic jams are horrible there and people waste hours of their lives commuting.

Basically, it usually takes anybody time to settle into a place wherever it is. It would be perhaps interesting to find out if "new chums" who whinge about one place in OZ are happy when they move to another part or they whinge the same or worse.

[themaccas]

Sounds like you do a similar journey to me, south west Sydney to randwick return via the tunnel 5 days a week[emoji30] waiting for light rail to finish then that's what I will use! You get used to the commute though, radio helps, phoning my friends also commuting home helps pass the time!


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[MARYROSE02]

My usual commute is much easier, leave home at 410, walk to Central, get the 4.19 to Parramatta and I'm in my office at 5pm. Friday I had a day off and I was going to visit a friend for dinner in Campbelltown. On my two previous meetings I've taken the train but this was a first trial of hiring a Go Get Car and I thought i would drive out there. The last time I went from Surry Hills to, on that occasion, Camden, I also left on a Friday but at 6pm expecting traffic jams but even the tunnel was clear and I was there in an hour.

The Go Get trial had mixed results. I should have booked the car for 8 or 9 hours and extended it, rather than booking for 24 hours but, as I said, it was a trial. The car pod is right outside my unit, closer than my garage, "Dagmar the Yaris." I had no idea how it would work but it's simple, smart card on the window opens the car, keys and petrol card are inside (they pay for petrol). I did not know until I tried when I got home that you can't bring a car back early but you can extend it so the car was parked outside my unit for a wasted few hours until I took it out again on Saturday.

I told my friend that if I'd been meeting anyone else I would have turned off at the airport and gone home and I meant it. I think my bill for the car was about 90 dollars but I don't regret that because it was a test run and I love the concept of it, brand new car outside my unit, and there are sometimes cheaper deals depending upon the pod. I shan't be driving out to see my friend any more though not when it's $2.50 on the train (Gold Opal) and the places we want to go are all right outside the stations.

There is a guy comes in my local cafe for lunch who lives near Windsor and he has a horror commute which he alleviates listening to JJJ. I actually moved to Surry Hills (in 1987) so I could walk to work but since I came back to Sydney my jobs have involved even longer commutes, sometimes anyway - Penrith - but Parramatta is much easier.

Have you tried listening to story CD (or cassettes)? I used to borrow them from the library in the UK to listen to at work but they are just as good in the car. I see the light rail work every day in Devonshire Street. I read in our local paper that one of the cafes in D St has gone bust because they don't get customers any more.

[path2aus]

On 19/04/2017 at 11:27, Pura Vida said:

Surely same could be said for any big city? But surely Sydney less so than many? It is hardly New York or London or Mumbai for that matter. (hardly an Alpha city) I have never lived there, but have visited it on a number of occasions over the years(know quite a few living there as well) and certainly don't find it that hard to know. Obviously don't know, nor need to, every suburb , but know most places worth knowing (many as well that are not)

Never been to London, but NY is a horrible city. I couldn't wait to get out of there. I worked there for 3 months and I hated every bit of it. It is good to visit as a tourist but I will think twice about living there. It is just a concrete jungle with people rushing everywhere, pushing you, shoving you along the way. Highly overrated and overpriced city.

[path2aus]

I love Adelaide, will live here for ever if I get a chance. Really don't want to live in another NY type city, so will try to avoid Sydney as a place to live. I will surely visit though.I went to Melbourne to activate my visa and really loved the vibe of the CBD. Adelaide is the kind of place I like, good city for a family. Less crowded, beautiful beaches.

[Guest263228]

3 minutes ago, path2aus said:

Never been to London, but NY is a horrible city. I couldn't wait to get out of there. I worked there for 3 months and I hated every bit of it. It is good to visit as a tourist but I will think twice about living there. It is just a concrete jungle with people rushing everywhere, pushing you, shoving you along the way. Highly overrated and overpriced city.

I've never lived in New York, much to my regret as at a certain age I think I would have loved the place. Certainly did London anyway. (a slower version for sure) Those days are past and even London grates after a few weeks. It has moved onto another place without me.

Sydney is far more liveable I suspect with far less haste and aggression than New York, but the cost of doing so should not be under estimated. It is very expensive. Under those circumstances one does wonder at the quality of life prevailing.

[Guest263228]

5 minutes ago, path2aus said:

I love Adelaide, will live here for ever if I get a chance. Really don't want to live in another NY type city, so will try to avoid Sydney as a place to live. I will surely visit though.I went to Melbourne to activate my visa and really loved the vibe of the CBD. Adelaide is the kind of place I like, good city for a family. Less crowded, beautiful beaches.

Have you been to Brisbane and/or Perth? Adelaide is fine enough for what it is but many find it wanting. Not a lot in the way of work, but that goes for Perth as well. Good city for a family in early years but later not so sure. All three people I knew from there left at some stage to gain opportunity else where. This can amount to a situation in the future where the parents remain while the kids have relocated. Is there enough to occupy yourself as well?. After, if what seems apparent you are coming from NY then the contrast may be far greater than anticipated.

[path2aus]

12 minutes ago, Pura Vida said:

Have you been to Brisbane and/or Perth? Adelaide is fine enough for what it is but many find it wanting. Not a lot in the way of work, but that goes for Perth as well. Good city for a family in early years but later not so sure. All three people I knew from there left at some stage to gain opportunity else where. This can amount to a situation in the future where the parents remain while the kids have relocated. Is there enough to occupy yourself as well?. After, if what seems apparent you are coming from NY then the contrast may be far greater than anticipated.

I have not visited Perth or Brisbane yet. At this point I find we are okay to start here. The opportunities in terms of work is surely a problem but I have found a decent length contract to start things off. You are right that the contrast between NY and Adelaide is like chalk and cheese. That's what excites me here. I feel that Melbourne is a good compromise between Sydney and Adelaide. It is neither too expense nor is it boring. Lets see what the future holds, my daughter is just 8 months now, so we still have some time to decide where we want to live.

[path2aus]

22 minutes ago, Pura Vida said:

I've never lived in New York, much to my regret as at a certain age I think I would have loved the place. Certainly did London anyway. (a slower version for sure) Those days are past and even London grates after a few weeks. It has moved onto another place without me.

Sydney is far more liveable I suspect with far less haste and aggression than New York, but the cost of doing so should not be under estimated. It is very expensive. Under those circumstances one does wonder at the quality of life prevailing.

When I visited NY with my wife from Chicago, I loved the place. It was fun, we enjoyed our time there. So when I got a job there both were excited, but once we landed there within few days we felt that we wanted to get out. Not sure why. I guess it is kind of an acquired taste to live in such big cities. I lived in San Francisco too, beautiful place. It was expensive but a great place to live if you had the money. NY is nothing like that. If you like big cities, you should probably look at SF, fantastic city with great weather.

[ScottieGirl]

I have lived in the UK, Aus and the US.  I have never bothered with reccies as in my opinion living in a place is very different to spending a few weeks there.

[Guest263228]

On ‎19‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 01:25, MARYROSE02 said:

You are confusing the beach itself with the human infrastructure which applies to most places with magnificent beaches - Benidorm - what are they called? Sunrise and Sunset?: I can't remember. I loved Newquay because it reminded me of Sydney with the surf beaches and even Aussie life guards but in the town centre, ugh, the worst of Pommie Saturday night chavs.

I've never been to Rio but I imagine people aren't thinking of the favelas when they wax lyrical about the beaches and Bondi has nothing like them .

Bottom line, from reading these posts, people are not really happy with their lives in Sydney. It happens, occasionally,, but as I said before Sydney is the Big Apple, Melbourne, as good as it is, is still Chicago by comparison.

Having spent time in Rio a few months ago I must say I prefer Sydney beaches. Not that a lot of Rio are not great, just a number of bad hombre's around , especially, but not confined to the evenings/night. The favelas are not far (not all bad by any means) and locals claimed far saver since the Olympic Games. Still caution is required in parts, something not needed in Sydney.

I do like the bays  in Sydney and usually do the great walks there. Sydney is the Big A in Australia, the place most recognised outside of the country and of course the financial centre. It is rather spread out though, so some people wanting/expecting   a more intense urban environment may well find wanting.