goingtoz Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Recently I have been offered a better post with the relocation to Australia from my home country. The company will sponsor my visa 457 application, but I think I will have to submit some documents from my side like 1660 form. The problem is I have had criminal record before (almost 3 years ago) but I was not imprisoned. I only had to attend a 12-month probation service. It was not related to any serious crime like drug / murder, it was something related to silly 'stealing' due to stress. I believe here are a few options for me when filling out the criminal record part in the 1660 form, please correct me if i am wrong. 1) Do not report my criminal record, because a police check is not a must until the DIAC ask me to do so (but it may be more complicated if I don't record in the first place?) Also, if I want to apply PR later, DIAC may be able to check the record in my country and asked me why I didn't submit in the first place? Is that correct? Or DIAC cannot find out my criminal record without me submitting my police check paper? 2) Report my criminal record in the 1660 form with a proper police check, but would my employer know about this? Or is everything under my 1660 form protected by privacy? I really don't want to let my employer know about my past criminal record, would they find out from my visa application? Please help! Thank you very much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 you have to declare in on landing so watch what you are doing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goingtoz Posted November 11, 2016 Author Share Posted November 11, 2016 The problem is, would my employer find out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evets Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Report it as you need to do a police check and it would more than likely come up and not reporting it would/could cause complications and worst case scenario no visa. If it was over 10 years ago then it would be a different matter as would not be on your record. And if you decide to want to apply for PR and citizenship, you would need to report it again. I had to explain to my manager about a conviction I had over 20 years ago for a visa for Canada, I forgot to report it for my 457 but remembered for my PR and citizenship, if you have a good relationship with your manager and the conviction was minor then just discuss it and let them know. Sometimes things happen. The visa process is complicated and no point lying as just will make it harder for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goingtoz Posted November 11, 2016 Author Share Posted November 11, 2016 Hi Evets, Thank you! My criminal record is almost 3 years ago, due to thieving. My company would NOT apply PR / citizenship for their employees, so if I am being honest and report it for my 457 visa, would my employer knows if I don't tell them? It is a job transfer within the same company so I don't want gossips to spread around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evets Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Hi Evets, Thank you! My criminal record is almost 3 years ago, due to thieving. My company would NOT apply PR / citizenship for their employees, so if I am being honest and report it for my 457 visa, would my employer knows if I don't tell them? It is a job transfer within the same company so I don't want gossips to spread around. No worries. I do not think so as from my own experience I am only dealing with the immigration company and unless anything major came up they do not have any communication with my manager/company even then no communication as I would have to resolve it. I spoke to my manager about it as the process was dragging on, and he was asking why, and required more paper work and additional costs(this part you cannot hide if your company is paying). The visa process for Canada appears to be a lot more complicated than Australia. Double check if they require a police check, as during my process I had my house burgled so lost a lot of the documentation/records and cannot actually remember of a police check was required. I know it was required for PR and citizenship. The only reason I can see that your company would know is if your manager was to disclose it and you chatted to him and filled him in. The extra expense you could cover it up as needing extra paperwork. Please remember if you are coming out on a 457 visa and they are not going to sponsor you for PR, you have upto 4 years potentially on a temp visa with returning back to the UK unless you decide to try for yourself for PR. If you come out do you have the same job to return to, if you decide not to apply for PR. Will they cover cover relocation costs to and from Australia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goingtoz Posted November 11, 2016 Author Share Posted November 11, 2016 Thanks again! I am pretty sure visa 457 do not need a police check unless they ask me to , so I guess my plan is to declare my criminal record in my 1660 form and hopefully they would not ask me for a police check document, even if they do, I am happy to do so as long as they don't tell my company. But you said that they won't contact my company unless something major. Not sure if there will be any immigration agent / company for me apart from DIAC, and my company is paying for all of my 457 visa cost. I guess only an online form would be needed for me to fill out because my company will do the sponsor and nomination form beforehand? I am actually from China and I completed my bachelor in Australia before, technically I should be able to apply for a PR after an IELTS test and I guess the whole application process for the PR and citizen would be on my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Recently I have been offered a better post with the relocation to Australia from my home country. The company will sponsor my visa 457 application, but I think I will have to submit some documents from my side like 1660 form. The problem is I have had criminal record before (almost 3 years ago) but I was not imprisoned. I only had to attend a 12-month probation service. It was not related to any serious crime like drug / murder, it was something related to silly 'stealing' due to stress. I believe here are a few options for me when filling out the criminal record part in the 1660 form, please correct me if i am wrong. 1) Do not report my criminal record, because a police check is not a must until the DIAC ask me to do so (but it may be more complicated if I don't record in the first place?) Also, if I want to apply PR later, DIAC may be able to check the record in my country and asked me why I didn't submit in the first place? Is that correct? Or DIAC cannot find out my criminal record without me submitting my police check paper? 2) Report my criminal record in the 1660 form with a proper police check, but would my employer know about this? Or is everything under my 1660 form protected by privacy? I really don't want to let my employer know about my past criminal record, would they find out from my visa application? Please help! Thank you very much! Just because you were not imprisoned that doesn't mean you can forget it! Its a criminal record, you MUST declare it to DIBP and they will probably ask for a police check. The information you give to DIBP will not be shared with your employer directly, it is covered by privacy laws, but there is always a chance that the record (whatever it was) could come to light at work so I would not suggest lying to your employer either. Its a breach of trust. If you employer asks if you have a record you should be honest with them. The question may well be on the paerwork for the job somewhere, many Australian employers do ask the question these days. If you apply for PR later DIBP will ask you to provide a police check from your home country. If the then find that you lied about having a record in order to get a 457, the chances of you getting PR are pretty slim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 First, lying to an employer is not a great idea. Many employers will down the line ask for a criminal background check and if you had lied it would be grounds for automatic dismissal. And of course end of visa. If you lie to immigration - which you would have to do to pass through on arrival, then you would eventually be found out as even if a check isn't required for your visa, any permanent visa would require it and at which point you would be refused and likely banned from re-applying. From what you have posted, declaring it to immigration now is unlikely to prevent them issuing a visa, they will just want more clarification on the background. Your employer is unlikely to be that bothered if the role isn't one that demands a clean record and I would recommend being honest and up front Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goingtoz Posted November 11, 2016 Author Share Posted November 11, 2016 Ok yes I think will declare it when applying. Hopefully my employer won't find out since it should be protected by privacy law. If they asked, I will give them a good answer to keep them feel comfortable. Hope immigration won't ask for a police check after my clarification! Fingers cross I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 as would not be on your record It certainly would be. For Australian immigration purposes you must declare all police matters, even those that resulted in no sentence being imposed, for example cautions and also convictions that have been 'stood down' due to lapse of time. Failing to declare an offence in an application, or on an incoming passenger card, can result in worse outcomes than the offence itself. Australian immigration will not disclose your police matters to your employer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungo Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Ok yes I think will declare it when applying. Hopefully my employer won't find out since it should be protected by privacy law. If they asked, I will give them a good answer to keep them feel comfortable. Hope immigration won't ask for a police check after my clarification! Fingers cross I guess Employers have a right to know about past criminal records until spent. They usually ask and I am surprised they don't already know. Even if you got away with concealing this now, you will not be able to if you ever go for PR because a police check will be requested, it would then come to light that you lied for the 457 application. It is better to answer the questions truthfully and I would not advise that you call stealing "silly" or blame it on stress - DIBP will want to see that you have remorse and do not make light of your crimes. Nobody likes a thief and stress does not make most people steal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goingtoz Posted November 12, 2016 Author Share Posted November 12, 2016 Got it. I will report everything with a true heart that I felt deeply regret of what I have done. And it's a relief to hear that they would not disclose my record to my employer. I am a new man now and I hope my criminal record would not affect my 457 visa and probably my PR later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 From an employer point of view. If i employed someone and found out a conviction had not been disclosed i would not be best pleased. It breeches trust and i would find it difficult to keep said person employed. I would rather the person was open and upfront. Just something to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goingtoz Posted November 12, 2016 Author Share Posted November 12, 2016 Not sure how to bring that up suddenly. If they ask, I may tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booma Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Got it. I will report everything with a true heart that I felt deeply regret of what I have done. And it's a relief to hear that they would not disclose my record to my employer. I am a new man now and I hope my criminal record would not affect my 457 visa and probably my PR later. im not sure how much of a new man you are when you are not being up front with your employer. it seems to me you are just as dishonest as before. trustworthy people dont hide things from there employers or from immigration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight7 Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 When I was at work we used to record check all employees and volunteers ( even if they were only temporary) and I have to say absolutely everything used to come up- even so called 'spent' convictions and juvenile things like minor drug offences. Just a word of warning- sooner or later they find out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonflygecko Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 You need to apply for the police check even for 457. You don't need to tell your employer unless you are asked. On your police record it will have 'no live trace'. Your employer cannot hold it against you if it does come up as everyone who has a conviction has the right not to be discriminated against because of this. If it were a more serious crime and your job involved vulnerable adults or children obviously this would be an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungo Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 You need to apply for the police check even for 457. You don't need to tell your employer unless you are asked. On your police record it will have 'no live trace'. Your employer cannot hold it against you if it does come up as everyone who has a conviction has the right not to be discriminated against because of this. If it were a more serious crime and your job involved vulnerable adults or children obviously this would be an issue. Employers have every right to "discriminate" against people with a police record! That is why they can ask. There ought to be consequences for committing crime you know. Such as spoiling your job prospects, a deterrent for many of us. Only when the crime is "spent" does the employer not have a right to know about it. Of course for immigration, criminal record is never spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 (edited) You need to apply for the police check even for 457. You don't need to tell your employer unless you are asked. On your police record it will have 'no live trace'. Your employer cannot hold it against you if it does come up as everyone who has a conviction has the right not to be discriminated against because of this. If it were a more serious crime and your job involved vulnerable adults or children obviously this would be an issue. An employer has every right to choose not to employ someone with a conviction. You'd be hard pressed to get a discrimination case successfully upheld on the grounds of a criminal conviction. In fact i don't think it would go anywhere if you even tried. Employers have every right to ask and expect the person to be honest. Edited November 14, 2016 by Guest Fixed quote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northshorepom Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 You need to apply for the police check even for 457. Only if they ask, which they probably won't; they don't usually. You should disclose though, because it won't stop you getting the visa, and if you do ever apply for PR you will definitely need a check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonflygecko Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 I was talking about spent convictions in regards to rehabilitation of offenders. I'm not sure if that applies after only 3 years. Just saying- if I am interviewing someone we have a 'declaration of offences' form. A staff member discloses that they were convicted of stealing we would obviously discuss this and find out the reasons why, when etc but I cannot discriminate and not employ them on that basis alone. Of course if there were more incidents or the persons behaviour towards it was not what I would expect then that's different. I thought 457 offshore you need a police check? For all temporary and PR visas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 I was talking about spent convictions in regards to rehabilitation of offenders. I'm not sure if that applies after only 3 years. Just saying- if I am interviewing someone we have a 'declaration of offences' form. A staff member discloses that they were convicted of stealing we would obviously discuss this and find out the reasons why, when etc but I cannot discriminate and not employ them on that basis alone. Of course if there were more incidents or the persons behaviour towards it was not what I would expect then that's different. I thought 457 offshore you need a police check? For all temporary and PR visas? You only need a police check on a 457 if they ask for one - usually only if you have declared convictions. PR visas all need a police check but a 457 isn't PR . Rehab of Offenders is a bit more complicated than just saying "after 3 years" - depends on the offence, the sentence, previous offending history etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goingtoz Posted November 13, 2016 Author Share Posted November 13, 2016 If I declare my conviction, and somehow immigration asked me for a police check, would that lengthen my visa process? And I believe I will need an IELTS test as well, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungo Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 If I declare my conviction, and somehow immigration asked me for a police check, would that lengthen my visa process? And I believe I will need an IELTS test as well, right? Yes of course it would lengthen your visa process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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