Should I stay or should I go?

[evets]

In an attempt to get the thread back on track I am going to actually try and answer the OP's question!

My view is that you have a huge amount to lose and not that much to gain. You haven't moved, for whatever reason, in the last 4.5 years so the drive to get to Australia can't be that great.

Yes, I love the lifestyle here and I think that it is better than the UK

for my family

. In answer to your questions

will Oz provide me the quality of life now and in the future I currently have in the UK?

Probably not. Your quality of life will probably be quite poor to start with if you don't have a job lined up. Your kids may settle really well, or they may not - they are at a slightly tricky age and may be resentful of a move. If you have a good job, happy life and happy children then why move?

 

You may feel that you have missed an opportunity, and you probably will always have that thought if you stay, but life is about choices not regrets. You are unlikely to truly regret not moving to Australia - it is more likely to be a slight yearning for what might have been.

 

Brexit is a sore point but the UK should recover and your kids have a bit of time before they will be in the job market and it certainly isn't carefree on the job market over here.

 

I have been lucky and would encourage almost anyone to move, but in your case you seem to want assurance that all will be okay with a move. It may not be; my advice - don't do it!!

 

 

Agreed, it would have been so much easier on the family if you made the move many years earlier. Your eldest child is the one who will feel this the most, IMO.

 

 

Aside from offering your children a better future, Brexit could be a god send for the UK or not. Only time will tell. What are your reasons for moving, you appear to be in a very good position. Do you want to move your self or is this just for the kids?

[Keith and Linda]

My children were 16 and 18 when we arrived, they did struggle the most but have certainly come out and admitted that their life is better here in Aus than it would have been staying in the UK and this is them comparing to their old friends in UK.

The eldest eventually ended up going to Uni as a mature student and getting his masters. Daughter married to an Aussie, has a brand new home, so all good there too.

So whilst folk say it would be bad for the children due to their age, I can, with experience, say it is not always the case. Regarding the 11 year old then a read of Goodbyegreyskies post, things aren't always bad!

[flag of convenience]

My children were 16 and 18 when we arrived, they did struggle the most but have certainly come out and admitted that their life is better here in Aus than it would have been staying in the UK and this is them comparing to their old friends in UK.

The eldest eventually ended up going to Uni as a mature student and getting his masters. Daughter married to an Aussie, has a brand new home, so all good there too.

So whilst folk say it would be bad for the children due to their age, I can, with experience, say it is not always the case. Regarding the 11 year old then a read of Goodbyegreyskies post, things aren't always bad!

 

The opportunities that existed last century are far from evident in todays Australia. Even a good education will be no guarantee of anything.

[Keith and Linda]

The opportunities that existed last century are far from evident in todays Australia. Even a good education will be no guarantee of anything.

 

Flag you are unbelievable! can you only read every other word that is written? We were only here for six months of the last century, my first employment only lasted for that century, the kids and wife were struggling last century and into this one! All the good things have come well into this century, but then I am a baby boomer so everything was handed to me on a plate! apparently.

[Quoll]

To return to the OP. Baldly, I think you are too old - over 50 in Australia is over the hill and getting a decent job is going to be really hard unless you have some majorly in demand skill set and working to build up a half decent retirement pot is probably not going to be possible (they reckon it takes 40 years). Whilst your kids are just about young enough to move into the Australian education system it wouldn't be doing them any favours on an international stage, better than the situation they have now. And if you decided to return because you couldn't get work then you will have screwed them up with the UK education system. It's not magically a "better" life for kids, it's just another first world country.

 

Draw a line and be done with it, it hasn't been an impressive for the past 4.5 years, it doesn't sound like it's an imperative now.

[anoh]

We came out 4 years ago at the age of 55. Our visa only had 4 months to go and we knew that our eldest son who had just qualified in the UK as a doctor had every intention of emigrating to Australia. So we arrived leaving both sons behind to stay for a year.

The eldest needed to complete his first foundation year to enable registration in Australia. The youngest then aged 21 stayed because he loved Cornwall and struggled to come to terms with leaving. They were both on our visa and managed to get a residents return visa for 1 year. My husband and I travelled up and down the East coast trying to find somewhere we wanted to settle and also to get work. We have occupational work pensions which aren't big but we needed to capitalise on some savings as we were unable to buy a house outright here as we brought our money out at the wrong time.

I was a Health Visitor and my husband was a teacher in the UK. Work was difficult to come by but that was more to do with us feeling devastated by what we thought was a wrong decision and could not settle.

Anyway after 6 months we ended up in Cairns. My husband has plenty of supply work teaching(his choice). I could not find anything in my field and work as a support worker which I am happy with. My eldest did manage to find a hospital position and is now a registrar studying for a consultant's position. He loves Australia and said he can't believe how lucky he is to live here. My youngest could not find any work for 8 months and was completely demoralised. He worked in a bank but just kept getting knocked back. Roll on 3 years and he is now a policeman and enjoys it. He said the pull of Cornwall has never gone away and he could be just as happy there.

I think for us we left it too late to come. We loved Cornwall and enjoyed our jobs and could have retired.It is so difficult to start again and you need the right mindset.

The youngest son suffered incredibly and he felt he had to come as the visa would have expired and his family would be in Australia.

We have settled in a sort of way now. The boys have done well and will become citizens in another year. Would they have done as well in the UK, yes of course they would.

We all have to work out what is right for each us.

Sorry for the ramble, you can tell I am still homesick!

[starlight7]

Unless you are 100% committed I think you wouldn't be able to cope with such an upheaval. As we can all tell you, those of us who have taken the plunge- it is never easy and to make a go of it you have to be very, very positive about it all- as we were, back in the day. I think Australia is a wonderful country but it has its drawbacks depending on where you go and who you are fortunate ( or unfortunate!) enough to meet.

[bunbury61]

I was awarded my skilled visa in 2012 at the age of 44, and immediately validated it with a visit to Oz.

The reason for applying for a visa in the first place was not my untold desire to go to Oz but wondering it if might provide a better future for my children than the UK.

After 4 1/2 years ticking over quite nicely in the UK in a well paid quite secure job, my (5 year) visa will expire next Summer.

In the 4 1/2 years since being granted the visa, a lot of things have happened in the UK, not least Brexit. The future, even though I am still in a well paid secure job, is far from certain in the UK and I worry more about my children's future because of Brexit.

I am now at that crossroads where I have a hard fought and valuable visa that will expire and be gone forever if I don't take up this opportunity. Or I could go to Oz, not find a job or a job not as well paid and could be very quickly financially crippling. With my children at the difficult ages of 11 and 15, schooling and exams would also be risk.

The question is, will Oz provide me the quality of life now and in the future I currently have in the UK?

I am 49, and well aware of how lucky I am to have a granted visa when it is now so difficult to come by one, and do not want to waste it! UK or Oz?

The 'just give it go' attitude and 'what have you got to lose' is not the answer I am looking for, there is too much at stake!

 

There was a time not so long ago 70s,80s ,90s for a young family it was almost a no brainer .

Australia had high wages and cheap housing .

Iam afraid with " globalisation " its a different story for most of us now .

I brought my daughter back to the u.k aged 2 ....would she have been happier in oz ....who knows ...would she have done more with her life in oz ....probably not .

She's been all over the world from the u.k ...she has just come back from that grew Aussie haunt ..bali .

Why she didn't go the extra few hours to iz is beyond me ?

Her younger sister has done even more travelling .

Plus they are keeping their nan going .

Its a tough call ,but if you have any modicum of stability ,oz or u.k ...stick with it

[BacktoDemocracy]

I was awarded my skilled visa in 2012 at the age of 44, and immediately validated it with a visit to Oz.

The reason for applying for a visa in the first place was not my untold desire to go to Oz but wondering it if might provide a better future for my children than the UK.

After 4 1/2 years ticking over quite nicely in the UK in a well paid quite secure job, my (5 year) visa will expire next Summer.

In the 4 1/2 years since being granted the visa, a lot of things have happened in the UK, not least Brexit. The future, even though I am still in a well paid secure job, is far from certain in the UK and I worry more about my children's future because of Brexit.

I am now at that crossroads where I have a hard fought and valuable visa that will expire and be gone forever if I don't take up this opportunity. Or I could go to Oz, not find a job or a job not as well paid and could be very quickly financially crippling. With my children at the difficult ages of 11 and 15, schooling and exams would also be risk.

The question is, will Oz provide me the quality of life now and in the future I currently have in the UK?

I am 49, and well aware of how lucky I am to have a granted visa when it is now so difficult to come by one, and do not want to waste it! UK or Oz?

The 'just give it go' attitude and 'what have you got to lose' is not the answer I am looking for, there is too much at stake!

 

I can only tell you what I ended up feeling when we left Brisbane Australia 2.5 years ago, we were there for 9 years roughly, I'm now 69 and my OH is now 53 we both have degrees, my OH has a Masters and a handful of prof quals, and in the UK she was CEO of a fairly biggish charity and I ran a maintenance section in Social Housing.

 

Not trying to big note ourselves but just to give you the background.

 

It took me 6 months to get a temp job at a level that I was doing 20 odd years earlier and it took my OH 2 years before she got a job at a level that she was doing 15 years earlier, now I know that you cannot expect to automatically walk into a comparable job if you emigrate but it becomes dispiriting to get knocked back because you don't have Aus experience or you don't have Aus qualifications and then when you do get a job you find its so low level that you wonder why the job actually exists.

 

Anyway my OH did after 4 years get a job as a CEO but it was of a charity which was about to roll over and die because previously it had been used by the management board to fund favourites of the chairman and the accounting was not what could be called clear cut, anyway after 3 years and a new chairman it was going forward and fund raising was good and new financial protocols were in place and then in the 4th year the chairman changed and it became clear that the new man wanted a change of management because he was for ever finding fault with everything that was done, it became clear that he did not like working with a woman.

 

When I got to 62 I gave up looking for work because I couldn't even get an interview for a job as a repairs inspector for a lettings agency.

From discussions with other people we knew we became aware of how ageist QLD was and also how sexist it was, the chairman who employed my OH was a real oddity, he was a one off, a real gent who was senior in a law firm and ddid not have to conform, it was only later that we realised how much of a one off he was as my wife had run in after run in with prejudice, she left and we felt unequal to getting her another job in that kind of atmosphere and sure enough the new chairman immediately appolnted a local bloke with very limited experience who he could control.

 

All of this is to give a little bit of the flavour of how it is in Qld, we left and came back here to the UK, we loved the environment, we loved the sense of freedom, we loved being able to go up the coast to the beaches, especially in the winter, we loved the wildlife, we even got used to the spiders, but I really felt the stranglehold of the bureaucracy in everything, the resistance to accepting that skills and qualifications from outside of Australia were relevant or applicable and the ageism was to my mind quite incredible, people seemed to stay in the same job for years and work their way up and then sit in the job until they got their pension (usually early).

It seemed that you had to get a job in your 20's get known then brown nose your way up, stay schtum and keep your nose clean.

I would emphasise this was our experience and we were trying to break into management type positions, not people with technology backgrounds or specific specialist skills, but I do know that people from those kinds of backgrounds have had problems with how resistant Australia is with recognising overseas quals and experience and how long it can take to get the Australian qualifications that make you attractive to a Australian employer which is why making the move at the beginning of your career is beneficial.

 

Don't want to put obstacles in your way but I really wouldn't want you to risk things and find yourself out on a limb with no way back, especially if jobs get tight here with brexit.

 

Another factor is how dependent the Australian economy is on agriculture and extractive industries so their is no guarantee that their economy will be better long term as climate change and emission controls impact carbon fuels.

'

Edited October 24, 2016 by BacktoDemocracy

[calNgary]

Thank you to the members who tried to get the thread back on track. However a few posts after that have still had to be removed.

Answer the OP, any other discussion can be done via a new thread.

 

Cal x

[flag of convenience]

I can only tell you what I ended up feeling when we left Brisbane Australia 2.5 years ago, we were there for 9 years roughly, I'm now 69 and my OH is now 53 we both have degrees, my OH has a Masters and a handful of prof quals, and in the UK she was CEO of a fairly biggish charity and I ran a maintenance section in Social Housing.

 

Not trying to big note ourselves but just to give you the background.

 

It took me 6 months to get a temp job at a level that I was doing 20 odd years earlier and it took my OH 2 years before she got a job at a level that she was doing 15 years earlier, now I know that you cannot expect to automatically walk into a comparable job if you emigrate but it becomes dispiriting to get knocked back because you don't have Aus experience or you don't have Aus qualifications and then when you do get a job you find its so low level that you wonder why the job actually exists.

 

Anyway my OH did after 4 years get a job as a CEO but it was of a charity which was about to roll over and die because previously it had been used by the management board to fund favourites of the chairman and the accounting was not what could be called clear cut, anyway after 3 years and a new chairman it was going forward and fund raising was good and new financial protocols were in place and then in the 4th year the chairman changed and it became clear that the new man wanted a change of management because he was for ever finding fault with everything that was done, it became clear that he did not like working with a woman.

 

When I got to 62 I gave up looking for work because I couldn't even get an interview for a job as a repairs inspector for a lettings agency.

From discussions with other people we knew we became aware of how ageist QLD was and also how sexist it was, the chairman who employed my OH was a real oddity, he was a one off, a real gent who was senior in a law firm and ddid not have to conform, it was only later that we realised how much of a one off he was as my wife had run in after run in with prejudice, she left and we felt unequal to getting her another job in that kind of atmosphere and sure enough the new chairman immediately appolnted a local bloke with very limited experience who he could control.

 

All of this is to give a little bit of the flavour of how it is in Qld, we left and came back here to the UK, we loved the environment, we loved the sense of freedom, we loved being able to go up the coast to the beaches, especially in the winter, we loved the wildlife, we even got used to the spiders, but I really felt the stranglehold of the bureaucracy in everything, the resistance to accepting that skills and qualifications from outside of Australia were relevant or applicable and the ageism was to my mind quite incredible, people seemed to stay in the same job for years and work their way up and then sit in the job until they got their pension (usually early).

It seemed that you had to get a job in your 20's get known then brown nose your way up, stay schtum and keep your nose clean.

I would emphasise this was our experience and we were trying to break into management type positions, not people with technology backgrounds or specific specialist skills, but I do know that people from those kinds of backgrounds have had problems with how resistant Australia is with recognising overseas quals and experience and how long it can take to get the Australian qualifications that make you attractive to a Australian employer which is why making the move at the beginning of your career is beneficial.

 

Don't want to put obstacles in your way but I really wouldn't want you to risk things and find yourself out on a limb with no way back, especially if jobs get tight here with brexit.

 

Another factor is how dependent the Australian economy is on agriculture and extractive industries so their is no guarantee that their economy will be better long term as climate change and emission controls impact carbon fuels.

'

 

I can identify with aspects of this post word for word. Wildlife and nature great. Working life in general sucks big time.

[BacktoDemocracy]

Trouble is the negatives always voice a stronger opinion. almost to the point that it is in their belief the only correct version of how things are. Also those with negatives do tend to post more often than those with positives views.

I would hazard a guess that more emigrants remain than return.

 

OK just googled some statistics a random pick and it gave 2011/12............PR visa and 457 visa approx. 25,000 entries from UK, with approx. 7,000 with same visa returning which is roughly a 75% satisfaction rate! something which is not reflected in the posts on this forum.

That's still somewhere around 27% return rate, not exactly a huge vote of confidence, I did not realise the return rate was so high and the statistics may under record the actual level because not everyone states that they are not returning when they leave.

I'm not arguing one way or another but I must say those statistics are a bit of a eye opener.

[Guest parleycross2]

I can only tell you what I ended up feeling when we left Brisbane Australia 2.5 years ago, we were there for 9 years roughly, I'm now 69 and my OH is now 53 we both have degrees, my OH has a Masters and a handful of prof quals, and in the UK she was CEO of a fairly biggish charity and I ran a maintenance section in Social Housing.

 

Not trying to big note ourselves but just to give you the background.

 

It took me 6 months to get a temp job at a level that I was doing 20 odd years earlier and it took my OH 2 years before she got a job at a level that she was doing 15 years earlier, now I know that you cannot expect to automatically walk into a comparable job if you emigrate but it becomes dispiriting to get knocked back because you don't have Aus experience or you don't have Aus qualifications and then when you do get a job you find its so low level that you wonder why the job actually exists.

 

Anyway my OH did after 4 years get a job as a CEO but it was of a charity which was about to roll over and die because previously it had been used by the management board to fund favourites of the chairman and the accounting was not what could be called clear cut, anyway after 3 years and a new chairman it was going forward and fund raising was good and new financial protocols were in place and then in the 4th year the chairman changed and it became clear that the new man wanted a change of management because he was for ever finding fault with everything that was done, it became clear that he did not like working with a woman.

 

When I got to 62 I gave up looking for work because I couldn't even get an interview for a job as a repairs inspector for a lettings agency.

From discussions with other people we knew we became aware of how ageist QLD was and also how sexist it was, the chairman who employed my OH was a real oddity, he was a one off, a real gent who was senior in a law firm and ddid not have to conform, it was only later that we realised how much of a one off he was as my wife had run in after run in with prejudice, she left and we felt unequal to getting her another job in that kind of atmosphere and sure enough the new chairman immediately appolnted a local bloke with very limited experience who he could control.

 

All of this is to give a little bit of the flavour of how it is in Qld, we left and came back here to the UK, we loved the environment, we loved the sense of freedom, we loved being able to go up the coast to the beaches, especially in the winter, we loved the wildlife, we even got used to the spiders, but I really felt the stranglehold of the bureaucracy in everything, the resistance to accepting that skills and qualifications from outside of Australia were relevant or applicable and the ageism was to my mind quite incredible, people seemed to stay in the same job for years and work their way up and then sit in the job until they got their pension (usually early).

It seemed that you had to get a job in your 20's get known then brown nose your way up, stay schtum and keep your nose clean.

I would emphasise this was our experience and we were trying to break into management type positions, not people with technology backgrounds or specific specialist skills, but I do know that people from those kinds of backgrounds have had problems with how resistant Australia is with recognising overseas quals and experience and how long it can take to get the Australian qualifications that make you attractive to a Australian employer which is why making the move at the beginning of your career is beneficial.

 

Don't want to put obstacles in your way but I really wouldn't want you to risk things and find yourself out on a limb with no way back, especially if jobs get tight here with brexit.

 

Another factor is how dependent the Australian economy is on agriculture and extractive industries so their is no guarantee that their economy will be better long term as climate change and emission controls impact carbon fuels.

'

 

But would a 62 year old be able to get a job in the UK ?

 

I'm sure in most countries it is very difficult at that age.

Most companies want younger workers who they assume will have more drive and energy and willing to learn new things.

[BacktoDemocracy]

But would a 62 year old be able to get a job in the UK ?

 

I'm sure in most countries it is very difficult at that age.

Most companies want younger workers who they assume will have more drive and energy and willing to learn new things.

I have been contacted by my old recruitment agents wanting me to apply for jobs in the 2 years I've been back, they obviously think my experience makes up for the age, no guarantee of getting the job, but a couple of them were management jobs.

Edited October 24, 2016 by BacktoDemocracy

[Guest parleycross2]

But have you actually secured a job at that age with an employer ?

[Keith and Linda]

That's still somewhere around 27% return rate, not exactly a huge vote of confidence, I did not realise the return rate was so high and the statistics may under record the actual level because not everyone states that they are not returning when they leave.

I'm not arguing one way or another but I must say those statistics are a bit of a eye opener.

 

One would need to know the reasons, of which there would be several including naivety, as to why they return. Must say though I have not heard of one family returning because of schooling for children, no Ribinsons cordial yes but not schooling.

[BacktoDemocracy]

But have you actually secured a job at that age with an employer ?

No but at least I got contacted for management jobs, in Australia I couldn't even get a response to a repairs inspectors job.

Anyway none of this is of any concern to the poster, it is no use always maintaining that Australia is free of defects and is perfect when so many people's experience proves the contrary.

[Petals]

The answers provided are in line with the last sentence in the op post I quote

 

"The 'just give it go' attitude and 'what have you got to lose' is not the answer I am looking for, there is too much at stake!"

 

If the post had not said this the answers would have been very different.

 

The op is concerned and needs guarantees and this is never good if thinking of migrating. Its a challenge for everyone and if we feel we are giving up a lot before we go, then failure usually follows.

[BacktoDemocracy]

Look the poster wants some advice about whether to make a, what to some of us seems to be a risky, choice, and the point I am making is that there are some serious obstacles to making a successful transition to Australia when you are older and I emphasised it was our experience.

But no you all have to make it about how marvellous Australia is and there are no structural defects in the systems and in society in Australia, how it's all milk and honey.

You don't do people any favours by giving them the rose tinted picture you have when they are trying to get real info on which to make a crucial decision.

[Keith and Linda]

Look the poster wants some advice about whether to make a, what to some of us seems to be a risky, choice, and the point I am making is that there are some serious obstacles to making a successful transition to Australia when you are older and I emphasised it was our experience.

But no you all have to make it about how marvellous Australia is and there are no structural defects in the systems and in society in Australia, how it's all milk and honey.

You don't do people any favours by giving them the rose tinted picture you have when they are trying to get real info on which to make a crucial decision.

 

You are just making these things up now!

[BacktoDemocracy]

One would need to know the reasons, of which there would be several including naivety, as to why they return. Must say though I have not heard of one family returning because of schooling for children, no Ribinsons cordial yes but not schooling.

It's always the individuals fault that Australia doesn't work for "them", never that Australia has some serious downsides which people realise and decide they don't want to tackle.

If it works for you, marvellous, but it doesn't for everybody and sometimes it doesn't work because of Australian rules and attitudes and not because people are naive, unprepared, stupid or soft or just want exactly what they had at home.

[Guest parleycross3]

The 2 countries aren't that different from each other though.

[BacktoDemocracy]

The 2 countries aren't that different from each other though.

 

I'm glad you think so, makes no point to highlight any differences or problems with changing countries does it then?

[Keith and Linda]

It's always the individuals fault that Australia doesn't work for "them", never that Australia has some serious downsides which people realise and decide they don't want to tackle.

If it works for you, marvellous, but it doesn't for everybody and sometimes it doesn't work because of Australian rules and attitudes and not because people are naive, unprepared, stupid or soft or just want exactly what they had at home.

 

Folks with axe's to grind and spout extreme opinions do not help the OP either!

most folk on here give balanced opinions negative or positive, but I do find it strange how some of those that have the negative opinion just add things in to bolster their negative views, not balanced at all!

[Guest241083]

..........if it ain't broke......!

..........gone are the days we could just move around the world.....

.........find the job we wanted or something to tide us over....

..........the worlds changed......not just the uk or Australia....

...........age limits us......

...........children at a crucial school point need careful consideration.....

...........if you could guarentee your needs with the move OP.....

...........why not.......

............but could you and yours enjoy that life if few of them where met...?

............I wish you luck.....wherever life takes you.....the choice ultimately yours.....as to which path you follow...