eu referendum update

[Gbye grey sky]

Britain is in Europe and needs to be part of the Union to have any influence. Anyone that thinks Britain will not be dealt with ' harshly' in terms of agreements and what have you are deluding themselves.

 

There would be little reason for any country to remain if could obtain the same benefits remaining out. Pure common sense. Lost on any number of the Little Englanders that frequent forums as this, sad to say.

 

Main supporters for out are those with the most to gain. Dirty little nationalist parties with severe right wing agendas and inward looking conservatives whom could never focus their mind across the channel.

 

If anything UK should be reasserting in rightful place at the centre of Europe and push with vigour for desired reforms. Which are numerous.

In this day and age, most every school kid should have another European language. Even more in fact.

 

Common sense is surprisingly uncommon unfortunately.

[flag of convenience]

The Germans beg to differ, they have made it clear a deal will be done, the people deluding themselves are the looney left who think the EU is some kind of Pan European people's Republic, a left wing wet dream.

 

Don't understand what you are attempting to infer. I wonder if you know? As for the Germans , most are in favour of EU. In fact a mayor of the leading (conservative) party at present in power, that I know, is a staunch supporter of the Union and Britain remaining. As is his party. Only the deluded and right wing nationalists desire getting out.

 

Obviously the left knows the correct way in this instance. Few would say things are ideal or there is not room for change. But remaining far more preferable than getting out.

[flag of convenience]

Common sense is surprisingly uncommon unfortunately.

 

Nothing at all common about and that's for sure.

[BacktoDemocracy]

What the hell are you talking about Pommie? The Leave side is offering an alternative. You're advocating the status quo. There will be no fundamental change to the EU! That has been clear for years and even the EU leadership has made that clear with the quote I posted. This belief that Britain will be able to influence great change in the EU is pure fantasy. No more than Ukraine, Kazakhstan or any of the other territories had in the USSR.

 

BTW there's a hell of a lot more wrong with the EU than just migrant benefits. The EU is absolutely broken. The solution for those running it is more of the same. Absolute lunacy. The EU will fail. That I'm absolutely certain of. The question is do we want to try and prolong the misery or do we want to distance ourselves from the danger. For me the choice is clear. Independence please.

 

I am sorry to raise a rather pedantic point but I note you are in Canada and seem to be emigrating to Australia, is it reasonable to pose the question of why the issue of the UK in Europe is raising your blood pressure so and why you are so adamant for it to be outside of Europe when it has it has been ruled by kings with their origins in Europe for the last 250 years.

I find all this rejection of Europe amusing when our royal family had a German name up to the 1st WW and Victoria's family were were part of the royal families of a large part of Europe, and England and French lands were fought over for 500 years or more by the Kings of England after the successful French invasion

Edited June 23, 2016 by BacktoDemocracy

[Wooba]

I am sorry to raise a rather pedantic point but I note you are in Canada and seem to be emigrating to Australia, is it reasonable to pose the question of why the issue of the UK in Europe is raising your blood pressure so and why you are so adamant for it to be outside of Europe as it has been for the last 250 years.

 

I'm a Pom in Canada and soon to be a Pom in Oz.

[BacktoDemocracy]

What the hell are you talking about Pommie? The Leave side is offering an alternative. You're advocating the status quo. There will be no fundamental change to the EU! That has been clear for years and even the EU leadership has made that clear with the quote I posted. This belief that Britain will be able to influence great change in the EU is pure fantasy. No more than Ukraine, Kazakhstan or any of the other territories had in the USSR.

 

BTW there's a hell of a lot more wrong with the EU than just migrant benefits. The EU is absolutely broken. The solution for those running it is more of the same. Absolute lunacy. The EU will fail. That I'm absolutely certain of. The question is do we want to try and prolong the misery or do we want to distance ourselves from the danger. For me the choice is clear. Independence please.

I'm glad I've got your assurance on that, I think I might back the 250 or so international and national economists, the several hundred international and national leading academics and the 1000 or so business and finance leaders on their assessment leaving the EU will catapult us into a recession for the next 10 years and fatally stunt our economy fo the foreseeable future.

[BacktoDemocracy]

I'm a Pom in Canada and soon to be a Pom in Oz.

Yes but not living in the UK, and not having to endure the dustbin full of c*ap which is about to fall on us here if Brexit happens.

[starlight7]

Don't worry- they will stay in I am sure. Whole thing is a bit of a public relations thingo to make people think they are being heard. Good old Britain.

[BacktoDemocracy]

Really?

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36534802

 

If you don't like their ideas, that's one thing, but don't say there's no alternative. The alternative is clear and there's a potential road map laid out for it.

 

I wonder if you felt the countries in the Warsaw Pact should have remained because they didn't have a plan?

The alternatives are all hedged around with IFS, if the rest of Europe are nice to us, if the pound doesn't crash, if overseas investment stays invested in the UK, if the immigrants that substantial parts of industry and the NHS rely on can stay.

You mean that plan!!!??.

[BacktoDemocracy]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/682561/david-cameron-eu-referendum-european-union-brexit-germany-boris-johnson-brussels

The man making the statement was an industrialist with no control over the actions or policies of the German govt or the EU

[Quokka2005]

Don't worry- they will stay in I am sure. Whole thing is a bit of a public relations thingo to make people think they are being heard. Good old Britain.

 

I think we'll leave

[BacktoDemocracy]

The Germans beg to differ, they have made it clear a deal will be done, the people deluding themselves are the looney left who think the EU is some kind of Pan European people's Republic, a left wing wet dream.

The German finance minister claude Junker has said Britain will be dealt with harshly if we vote to leave, this deal business must be one of Farage's dirty little fantasies getting out from under the bedclothes again or maybe his German wife has heard some pillow talk.

Edited June 23, 2016 by BacktoDemocracy

[Fisher1]

Don't worry- they will stay in I am sure. Whole thing is a bit of a public relations thingo to make people think they are being heard. Good old Britain.

 

I do hope you are right Starlight. I worked for the EU for twenty four years, and really felt that the European Union was a force for good, even though it is very far from perfect. I feel really sad at the thought of leaving, but have a horrible feeling that's exactly what's going to happen. I'm tempted to place a bet on a leave vote so I can afford a really good bottle of wine to drown my sorrows with if the worst happens ...

[Wooba]

I'm glad I've got your assurance on that, I think I might back the 250 or so international and national economists, the several hundred international and national leading academics and the 1000 or so business and finance leaders on their assessment leaving the EU will catapult us into a recession for the next 10 years and fatally stunt our economy fo the foreseeable future.

 

I remember in the mid 2000's there a very small group of those experts warning that the US was in incredible financial danger. The majority of the experts not only disagreed with them but publicly ridiculed them. We all know how that turned out.

I'm not a conspiracy theory type of guy, but generally speaking if a line up of bankers are loudly cheering for something it's very likely to be because it's in their best interests.

[Wooba]

Yes but not living in the UK, and not having to endure the dustbin full of c*ap which is about to fall on us here if Brexit happens.

 

You realize where you are right? A lot of the people you're discussing this with are not in the UK. If this is your concern then go start up pomsinuk.com and discuss it there.

Virtually everyone I'm related to lives in the UK. This impacts me as much as any of the members of this forum.

[Wooba]

The alternatives are all hedged around with IFS, if the rest of Europe are nice to us, if the pound doesn't crash, if overseas investment stays invested in the UK, if the immigrants that substantial parts of industry and the NHS rely on can stay.

You mean that plan!!!??.

 

Nobody is being kicked out. It's never been suggested by ANYONE that people will be kicked it. In fact I've heard if quite clearly stated that those who are here (or Brits in Europe) can stay. I believe (but am not sure) it's part of the Geneva convention.

 

As for markets.. they are volatile all the time. Anyone who panic sells it going to get burned. Those who stay calm and realize it's just a blip and will be fine. If a country like Iceland can not only survive, but come back strong from the hell they went through I am positive the UK will come out great from this. No businesses are running away from the UK. The market is just too big. Any belief they will is either naivety or fear mongering.

[Wooba]

The German finance minister claude Junker has said Britain will be dealt with harshly if we vote to leave, this deal business must be one of Farage's dirty little fantasies getting out from under the bedclothes again or maybe his German wife has heard some pillow talk.

 

What a patriot Juncker will be. Sticking up 2 fingers to the British while the economies around him collapse. If he was stupid enough to actually do that, then he's clearly someone you don't want leading you in any capacity.

This is pure fantasy.

[Wooba]

I worked for the EU for twenty four years, and really felt that the European Union was a force for good, even though it is very far from perfect.

 

There's no question about it. The intentions behind it are very noble indeed. It's just grown into an insatiable monster, homogenizing the continent and ignoring the concerns of its citizens. It needs incredible reform which the elite running clearly have no interest in attempting. A pity...

Edited June 23, 2016 by Wooba

[BacktoDemocracy]

You realize where you are right? A lot of the people you're discussing this with are not in the UK. If this is your concern then go start up pomsinuk.com and discuss it there.

Virtually everyone I'm related to lives in the UK. This impacts me as much as any of the members of this forum.

I fail to see how it impacts you, you are not dependent on the value of the pound for your future movements so I feel that you trying to convince all and sundry to vote Leave is more than a little disingenuous, if you were returning to the UK and would have to endure the fantasies peddled by PrimeministertobeBojo , MaoGove and GoebbelFarage then I might think that you had some skin in the game but otherwise I just think it's a bit rich to be telling me their "little Englander" fantasies are anything more than just that.

The EU is not perfect but it gives us access to a giant market and continent wide stability that has never been known before in Europe.

Has anyone asked the prospective emigrants on here how they will feel when the pound is at 1,5 Aus dollars and their house value has dropped 10%

People won't have to leave but they may be subject to visa requirements and work permits and may lose their rights to benefits such as medical care and pensions in exactly the same way that English émigrés may do on the continent.

Edited June 23, 2016 by BacktoDemocracy

[winter1]

"

 

If we were leaving the EU to become loosely entwined in the USA, economically I wouldn't have such an issue.

 

If the UK were leaving the EU to become loosely entwined in the USA it would be called Australia.

I hate the Americanisation of Aus including the way politics is going here I just hope that Medicare is safe, and I am not spruiking for either the LNP or ALP.

[Wooba]

I fail to see how it impacts you, you are not dependent on the value of the pound for your future movements so I feel that you trying to convince all and sundry to vote Leave is more than a little disingenuous, if you were returning to the UK and would have to endure the fantasies peddled by PrimeministerBojo , MaoGove and GoebbelFarage then I might think that you had some skin in the game but otherwise I just think it's a bit rich to be telling me their "little Englander" fantasies are anything more than just that.

The EU is not perfect but it gives us access to a giant market and continent wide stability that has never been known before in Europe.

Has anyone asked the prospective emigrants on here how they will feel when the pound is at 1,5 Aus dollars and their house value has dropped 10%

People won't have to leave but they may be subject to visa requirements and work permits and may lose their rights to benefits such as medical care and pensions in exactly the same way that English émigrés may do on the continent.

 

Do you know me personally? How do you know what my future plans are? How do you know what my financial ties to the UK are? Don't lecture to me on that ground on a forum called POMSINOZ.

I may be a lowly electrician but I'm also an investor. I have a stake in this vote whether you want to accept that or not.

 

Your implication that being outside of the EU will severe all trading ties with the EU as being inside "gives us access to a giant market". That is never going to happen. It will hurt them far more than it hurts us. If you believe that then I don't think there's anything more that can be said to you on the matter.

 

As stated, people already in the UK will be allowed to stay and will enjoy the same rights and privileges they already have. Comparing that to what people voluntarily accept when the move to Australia is silly.

[bunbury61]

I fail to see how it impacts you, you are not dependent on the value of the pound for your future movements so I feel that you trying to convince all and sundry to vote Leave is more than a little disingenuous, if you were returning to the UK and would have to endure the fantasies peddled by PrimeministerBojo , MaoGove and GoebbelFarage then I might think that you had some skin in the game but otherwise I just think it's a bit rich to be telling me their "little Englander" fantasies are anything more than just that.

The EU is not perfect but it gives us access to a giant market and continent wide stability that has never been known before in Europe.

Has anyone asked the prospective emigrants on here how they will feel when the pound is at 1,5 Aus dollars and their house value has dropped 10%

People won't have to leave but they may be subject to visa requirements and work permits and may lose their rights to benefits such as medical care and pensions in exactly the same way that English émigrés may do on the continent.

 

If the vote does go the way of " LEAVE,lets see how democratic this country and the e.u really is ...because I think its the club you cannot leave .

The special interest groups ,the bankers ,the bureaucrats will see to it .

To call this a once in a lifetime chance is absolute bollox.

 

The next step will be

FUTHER INTEGRATION WILL BE A CONDITION TO REMAIN ..

JOINING THE EURO WILL BE A CONDITION TO REMAIN

TURKEY WILL BE JOINING THE E.U ..PLANS ARE ALREADY IN PLACE .

Oh yes they are !

 

The lunatics have taken over the asylum ..the organisation who accounts are unaccountable ...

[BacktoDemocracy]

Do you know me personally? How do you know what my future plans are? How do you know what my financial ties to the UK are? Don't lecture to me on that ground on a forum called POMSINOZ.

I may be a lowly electrician but I'm also an investor. I have a stake in this vote whether you want to accept that or not.

 

Your implication that being outside of the EU will severe all trading ties with the EU as being inside "gives us access to a giant market". That is never going to happen. It will hurt them far more than it hurts us. If you believe that then I don't think there's anything more that can be said to you on the matter.

 

As stated, people already in the UK will be allowed to stay and will enjoy the same rights and privileges they already have. Comparing that to what people voluntarily accept when the move to Australia is silly.

I'm sorry but I don't recognise any of this as an answer to the points I was making and that seems to be commonplace when the Brexit camp is actually called upon to explain their position with real facts rather than assertions.

Anyway it's too late "the die is cast," we'll just have to wait and see what kind of world we wake to tomorrow and see where the pound is and where the markets are.

[Wooba]

I'm sorry but I don't recognise any of this as an answer to the points I was making and that seems to be commonplace when the Brexit camp is actually called upon to explain their position with real facts rather than assertions.

Anyway it's too late "the die is cast," we'll just have to wait and see what kind of world we wake to tomorrow and see where the pound is and where the markets are.

 

Since your comment that I was replying to used the word "may" instead of "will" that makes us equally guilty then.

[BacktoDemocracy]

Since your comment that I was replying to used the word "may" instead of "will" that makes us equally guilty then.

 

'May,' has been the devil of this campaign but visas are an almost certainty if we leave because the EU cannot allow it to be seen that leaving is going to benefit any country otherwise Spain , Greece, Hungary, Austria, Poland , even France, all with their own extreme right , populist parties will want to exit and that is not going to be allowed without first making an example of the UK in the same way Greece has been made an example of..

They will impose visa restrictions on us and we will be forced to impose them in retaliation and as a control on immigrants and that will mean that the present immigrants will have to have work permits, tit for tat

Edited June 23, 2016 by BacktoDemocracy