HappyHeart Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 It is totally wrong.....we were assessed when in the UK as a couple, when eldest DD wanted to go to uni.All they looked at was payslips, not outgoings, we had a stupidly high mortgage repayment, due to our business going bust because of the GFC. Maybe we would have been better off going bankrupt, but we Didnt, we took it on the chin, trying to do the right thing. Its no better in Aus. I've been looking at retraining....costs for courses are ridiculous . Further education for those that want to better themselves, Should be for all. not just for some:mad: I was lucky to find out about a scholarship. All my tuition fees are covered. Look around there may be help you are unaware of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Yes agreed Graham. It is not the taxpayers problem if someone chooses to take on a big house and mortgage or their business isn't doing well. Everyone has the ability to attend tertiary education if they have the ability and desire to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyHeart Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 the UK is well and truly "open for business" we are performing better than any other European nations and the outlook is for that to continue.....there are plenty of jobs available and everyone still goes on holiday...... That is a truly insulting statement to millions of Britons and blatantly untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi69 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Yes agreed Graham.It is not the taxpayers problem if someone chooses to take on a big house and mortgage or their business isn't doing well. Everyone has the ability to attend tertiary education if they have the ability and desire to do so. For us, we Didnt have a big house!! Just a normal semi, in an average estate!! The mistake we made was buying a business, giving it our all, working all hours. Our mortgage was big because we took the £50,000/$100,000 hit ourselves by adding the debt to our mortgage, just so we could keep a roof over our daughters head, keep them at the school they were used too, keep the familiarity. Our problem were the banks not willing to help small businesses at the time. We never have asked for help from any government source. We've worked hard all our life's, but would have still struggled to help our daughters thru uni. Is that too hard for "I'm alright Jack" people to understand?? 5 years later, we are doing fine. Thanks:yes:. We got a good gig in Aus. Daughters are doing well. We made that happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 My best friend emailed me yesterday telling me it was unlikely my Godson would get to go to Uni ( he has predicted a* for gcses this year). Apparently changes to funding ect. Fees set to far exceed what a family earning little over minimum wage can afford. So much for education for all. Back to opportunities for the already over privilegedWell maybe the poor wee soul will have to get a part time job to help fund his University Life instead of relying on his parents, his choice to go to Uni, its not as if they are in classes all week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi69 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 What is it that is 'wrong' with the situation? It sounds as if you are suggesting that someone who has an expensive lifestyle (eg lives in a big house, has a brand new car, shops at waitrose etc) is more deserving of a funded education than someone who earns the same salary but has a thrifty lifestyle. This isn't meant to sound personal as it must be heartbreaking to see your business go bust after so much passion and hard work but the concept of what you're suggesting would be hugely unfair and counter productive. I have always had a thrifty lifestyle. Don't own any credit cards/ store cards etc. anything we have ever wanted we have worked hard for and paid for it outright, with the exception of mortgage and car. Further education should be attainable for those that want it. Nothing to do with what your parents earn!! By the time you leave school, your an young adult, capable of making a choice, but if your choice is uni and your parents can't afford the fees, lodgings etc because the government in charge says only the rich can afford uni places, what do you do?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 That's the point we have been making, they don't. You don't have to pay any fees up front. The student fees are a loan that the student pays back later when earning a good salary. It doesn't affect you at all if you don't want it to. That is lefty propaganda which doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi69 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 That's the point we have been making, they don't.You don't have to pay any fees up front. The student fees are a loan that the student pays back later when earning a good salary. It doesn't affect you at all if you don't want it to. That is lefty propaganda which doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Ive been looking at courses....the price $9,000 a semester. Paid up front. That's for me....a mature student:err: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 you can get a student loan can't you for a uni course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi69 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 you can get a student loan can't you for a uni course. Im not looking at uni?? These are tafe courses!! im still only PR... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Ive been looking at courses....the price $9,000 a semester. Paid up front. That's for me....a mature student:err: the discussion is about fees in the Uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifi69 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 the discussion is about fees in the Uk Calm down...was only answering Parleys question:mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kungfustu Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 [/b][/color]That is a truly insulting statement to millions of Britons and blatantly untrue. I know....its outrageous isn't it........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoDemocracy Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Yes I realise that but apparently they have scrapped the non repayable grant of upto 4k, raised tuition fees and made it all a loan. I do feel it will put off the very lowest income families. It's certainly put my friend off and she is a very sensible woman but I think they have enough debt for now. They both work full time, he's unskilled as such she's in education support, works with young people in a tafe so knows the system. The working class, those on lower incomes are certainly still doing it tough in some circumstances. She feels her hands are tied, has looked to retrain, impossible. Either no funding or can't afford the wage drop. Ill be gutted if he doesn't get to uni his talents will be wasted. I've offered him a year here with us as I don't want him to end up like a lot of others from our home town stuck in a dead end job working his butt off till he's old and grey with the odd overseas holiday to look forward to. Having been back 18mths now i am surprised that anyone still believes that going to uni has any benefits when the goalposts have moved so much, if you want a well paid job with a future you now need a masters, a first degree will get people a dogsbodies job that might eventually lead to something, but as under 25s are not going to be protected by the 'living wage' gambit i don't see employers going to be queing up to take 22yr olds and have them on a career progression when they can have a revolving door of cheap labour, unis are offerring endless courses because they get paid for numbers now and they aren't telling the poor sods that there is complete overproduction of people in professions and occupations which means only the best from the most prestigious unis are going to get employment in their chosen field. And forget training to do anything to do with public service or 'green/environmental issues' because you are signing up for penury and a pool of jobs which will continue to shrink and shrink. The big problem in the uk is productivity levels, because employers find it cheap to employ staff to disguise the lack of investment into infrastructure and advanced technology and still produce goods relatively cheaply with staff in low tech industries so they are not worried about whether the staff have degrees or not, they say they are but really all that a degree ensures now is that people are technology savvy, not that they can be thinking self actuating people. So unfortunately going to uni is no longer a highway to a well paid CAREER, it's a step into a job which might or might not have a future and any longevity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyHeart Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Well maybe the poor wee soul will have to get a part time job to help fund his University Life instead of relying on his parents, his choice to go to Uni, its not as if they are in classes all week! The poor wee soul already has a part time job. He uses his income to pay for things Mum and Dad just can't stretch to, like a pair of Vans or the latest x box game. The point is, less well off families have often relied on that grant to help offset the costs of seeing a child through Uni. He can't work full tiem and study so kiss goodbye to any board. He can't afford to move away and pay for a room so options are limited there....tuition fees and books etc are just part of the overall costs. An already overstretched family just dos not have the capacity to absorb the extra costs of sending an 18 year old to UNI. Lets face it, not many parents refuse to help out financially leaving the young person fully responsible for fees. there's usually an agreement of some sort, Fact is the loss of that grant to the poorest families who depended on it to help offset some of the costs WILL further disadvantage young people from poorer families. It will discourage and make people think twice. I can only assume that people who dismiss this have no comprehension whatsoever of what its like living just above the poverty line. The family in question think themselves lucky to get a 'Sun' mini holiday a year from collecting the vouchers to stay in a caravan for 3 or 4 days. So when posters proclaim 'there's plenty of jobs and everyone can still go on holiday'. It tends to make me a bit upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunbury61 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 http://www.smh.com.au/business/comment-and-analysis/mitchell-column-20150710-gi8mnn Trying to keep a balance.....i work in the midlands . Everyone I meet seems to be doing o.k ....when I say o.k ,I mean they are getting by ,not living the dream ,but getting by.,hardly Las Vegas. Are most of the people I meet swimming in money ...no ...will they ever be ...no Is that dream over for most of us ...yes...is the "American dream " over ...yes I work right across the board ....posh and poor .....the best thing about the u.k is the people . I carried out a job in Wolverhampton the other day ....by oz standards the lady hadn't got a lot ....but she i sisted I have a breakfast and 4 cups of coffee ...oh the black country people ....just lovely. In relation to London ...it operates different to the rest of this island .....i call It the "capital of the world " for good reason . It bears little resemblance to the tired and grubby place ee visited in the 70s and 80s. Its busy ,its multi cultural ...but the money is pouring in ,dare I say flooding in . Its not everyone's cup of tea,but I bloody love it Why ?...because when iam there ,I feel iam somewhere that matters ..steeped in history .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARYROSE02 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I have always had a thrifty lifestyle. Don't own any credit cards/ store cards etc. anything we have ever wanted we have worked hard for and paid for it outright, with the exception of mortgage and car. Further education should be attainable for those that want it. Nothing to do with what your parents earn!! By the time you leave school, your an young adult, capable of making a choice, but if your choice is uni and your parents can't afford the fees, lodgings etc because the government in charge says only the rich can afford uni places, what do you do?? Get a job and study at the same time? That's what I did in the 80's and 90's at UNSW - working full time and studying part time, and that is what I'm doing again in the 21st century via the Open University where the Australian government pays my fees and takes it back through the tax system. As a tax payer, why should I be expected to contribute to somebody else's university education? If you want it bad enough then work for it. It's the same with saving for a home, saving for a pension, paying for nursing home care, and governments can no longer afford to pay for it. Worst case scenario is Greece, with countries like Spain and Ireland getting their act together to avoid that sort of situation. It does not matter whether you are in the UK or Australia. The government cannot and will not pay for everything any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeepingTom Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 Trying to keep a balance.....i work in the midlands .Everyone I meet seems to be doing o.k ....when I say o.k ,I mean they are getting by ,not living the dream ,but getting by.,hardly Las Vegas. Are most of the people I meet swimming in money ...no ...will they ever be ...no Is that dream over for most of us ...yes...is the "American dream " over ...yes I work right across the board ....posh and poor .....the best thing about the u.k is the people . I carried out a job in Wolverhampton the other day ....by oz standards the lady hadn't got a lot ....but she i sisted I have a breakfast and 4 cups of coffee ...oh the black country people ....just lovely. In relation to London ...it operates different to the rest of this island .....i call It the "capital of the world " for good reason . It bears little resemblance to the tired and grubby place ee visited in the 70s and 80s. Its busy ,its multi cultural ...but the money is pouring in ,dare I say flooding in . Its not everyone's cup of tea,but I bloody love it Why ?...because when iam there ,I feel iam somewhere that matters ..steeped in history .... excellent bunbury61, my feelings precisely (regarding London)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janlo Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Sorry but it's true! Back in the UK for a short time and yes, Trafford Centre packed, Chill Factor packed, restaurants full (on Sunday night?) everyone going to Spain in a couple of weeks. Kind of feel like the poor relation form Oz! Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janlo Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 .....but ok, it's cold and wet and the middle of summer! Can't have it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kungfustu Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Sorry but it's true! Back in the UK for a short time and yes, Trafford Centre packed, Chill Factor packed, restaurants full (on Sunday night?) everyone going to Spain in a couple of weeks. Kind of feel like the poor relation form Oz! Lol So lets get this right.....are you saying that even our friends tup north are working and enjoying their 2 week holidays in spain.....that is just outrageous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janlo Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 That's what I thought! IN a couple of weeks (during the school summers hols) not for a couple of weeks, I think some are going for just one week :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kungfustu Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I have always had a thrifty lifestyle. Don't own any credit cards/ store cards etc. anything we have ever wanted we have worked hard for and paid for it outright, with the exception of mortgage and car. Further education should be attainable for those that want it. Nothing to do with what your parents earn!! By the time you leave school, your an young adult, capable of making a choice, but if your choice is uni and your parents can't afford the fees, lodgings etc because the government in charge says only the rich can afford uni places, what do you do?? I do not know anyone that can afford to pay for their childs university education upfront or even after they have finished their degree.....a university education has always been paid via grants and loans.....that is unless you attended Harrow or Eton and your parents are extremely well off which if we are being honest does not include the vast majority of normal people in the UK.....so traditionaly a university education is paid in most by the student with the use of government grants and loans once they have finished their degree.....the government in charge is saying......we are no longer offering a 4k grant to the lowest earners.....in its place we will offer loans that will give as much and if not more that can be paid back after the degree has finished and once the student is in full time work earning 21k or more....if after 30 years they have not been paid off they will be wiped clean.....is that difficult to understand?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoDemocracy Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I do not know anyone that can afford to pay for their childs university education upfront or even after they have finished their degree.....a university education has always been paid via grants and loans.....that is unless you attended Harrow or Eton and your parents are extremely well off which if we are being honest does not include the vast majority of normal people in the UK.....so traditionaly a university education is paid in most by the student with the use of government grants and loans once they have finished their degree.....the government in charge is saying......we are no longer offering a 4k grant to the lowest earners.....in its place we will offer loans that will give as much and if not more that can be paid back after the degree has finished and once the student is in full time work earning 21k or more....if after 30 years they have not been paid off they will be wiped clean.....is that difficult to understand?? It has not always been the case, in the seventies a degree (or mine as a mature student was)was free as it was considered that your input would help to improve functioning of the country and its economy. I know quite a few people who can easily afford for their darlings to go to the right uni and do so to make sure they make the right connections and meet the right marriage partner and support them to go on to do either a masters or a Phd just so that they are at the head of the queue, and if you haven't worked that one out then I'm afraid you not in the real world pof mummy and daddy buying a flat near their college so the little dears don't get groped on the train, oh i forgot they usually have a car. And i really don't think that it's character building to work and study and then work for free as an intern in the hope that it might lead onto something like a permanent job on just enough to buy essentials and still be relying on handouts from your parents to make ends meet, there has to be some responsibility borne by someone , somewhere about what the value of a degree is, in the uk and oz everyone is being told they have to have a degree to get on but increasingly jobs for graduates are poorly paid with poor career prospects but everyone from the politicians to the universities to the employers are benefiting but not the students but everyone carries on with the same mantra, partly because everyone believes that you go up in the english class system with a degree and because there is no apparent alternative, yet on the Continent tradesmen and women earn as much as white collar workers and have equal status, a first year apprentice in the uk can be legally paid £2.38 an hour, and then everyone moans on about how there are no tradespeople in the uk. The other issue that i have is the concentration on degrees at present is the emphasis on training rather than education, a modern degree at a middling uni is more about people being able to parrot out info rather than use ideas and extrapolate from understanding ideas to form their own solutions to problems, if that is what doing a degree is about then why should the student be made to pay to become a simple unit of production ready for the industrialist to screw into their machine. The right wing have really screwed the working class , they make them pay for an education which only fits them for the role ordained for them and does away with any part of education which might make them think about what their position is in this perverse world, right from the first tests they do in infancy, right up to trying to get a job which will pay enough for a mortgage, which with new regulations to help the banks stay out of trouble, they are never going to qualify for because their student loan is taken into account as an outgoing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunbury61 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 excellent bunbury61, my feelings precisely (regarding London)! Couldn't live there tom ...and the inner city areas are a bit ropey ...but the tourist bits are first class .... I watched a video of " musical youth" singing pass the dutchie ...that was set in London ,some of the video by the area that now houses the " London eye ". All London had then was its memories and nostalgia ... In 2015 its buzzing ...the tube is clean ,trains are new ...streets are kept clean ....and you would have to spend a month there tobscratch the surface . We can jump on the train in Solihull ....2 adults ..2 kids ..with a tube ticket ...£50 for the day .... Why shop in brum ,when you can do carnaby st ...its a no brainer. Love it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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