How have you found the Aussies?

[mungbean]

Hey Manda,

 

You possibly hit the nail on the head there... London is very integrated compared to many other global cities. Looking at Diversity alone doesn't address this of course.

 

Great to hear you're in Sydney. Hope you're getting used to the idea of Autumn in April... it's doing my head in a bit! ;-)

[vickyplum]

[...] I used to enthuse about how everyone said thank you to bus drivers in Scotland, only to arrive in Sydney to find they also say good morning or g'day to the driver when they get on as well. Good vibes never hurt anyone. [...]

 

I'm pleased to hear this! When I lived outside of London [but still in the South of England] most people would greet the bus driver or thank them on the way off. Of course, none of that in London. I also noticed that it happens in Scotland [on a recent visit to Edinburgh], so I threw myself into it again, much to the amusement of my partner [who has lived in London for nearly 15 years].

[mungbean]

Unfortunately I have to say that I find the Sydney buses pretty unreliable (mainly the 433, which has left me high and dry too many times in only 2 months).

 

And if you've been in Edinburgh then Lothian buses have won bus-of-the-year or something for the last million years. Trains seem good in Sydney though.

 

I'm hoping to buy a bike in the next week or so... So far been way too busy with all the other gubbins: medicare card, driving licence, bank accounts... as well as - oh yes - actual work!

[MARYROSE02]

Im not in the habit of saying to aussies (and my kids are aussies btw)"Australia is a teenager"MR2! I meant it in a kind of non threatening nice way,not at all patronising,which is what you assumed I was doing.That sat more about you than me!

 

Well, if I thought it was patronising, why do you assume Aussies would NOT think it is patronising? How would you 'sweeten the pill' for them?

[vickyplum]

Unfortunately I have to say that I find the Sydney buses pretty unreliable (mainly the 433, which has left me high and dry too many times in only 2 months).

 

And if you've been in Edinburgh then Lothian buses have won bus-of-the-year or something for the last million years. Trains seem good in Sydney though.

 

I'm hoping to buy a bike in the next week or so... So far been way too busy with all the other gubbins: medicare card, driving licence, bank accounts... as well as - oh yes - actual work!

 

Sydney has never struck me as particularly cycle friendly, but I guess if you are in Balmain/Rozelle (?) then at least it's not as hilly as across the other side of the harbour bridge...! But still not my idea of easy going.

[Guest51810]

I always say thanks to the bus drivers even if it's the one guy I really don't like because he's grumpy. I think it's weird when people don't do it. I can't remember if people on the London bus said anything or not, it wasn't very busy. The driver that takes me home at night calls me flower!

[MARYROSE02]

Hardly. Not worthy of consideration. Neither are aggressive in the normal context rather the opposite in fact. Here it tends more to be suppressed aggression especially in the work place which rises to the surface from time to time.

 

But didn't you say that Aussies think you are aggressive? Now you say you are aren't like that, but why do you think Aussies think you are?

[MARYROSE02]

Hi Mungbean,

 

I'm based in Sydney, had found it more culturally diverse then I thought it would be but still not as diverse and integrated as London, which is still taking some getting use to. Growing up in an extremly diverse family and communities, it's easy to forget that in other parts of the world still have old fashioned views on social standings when it comes to racial backgrounds. It's definitely been educational.

 

I would not have thought that London's version of diversity and integration is something for Sydney to emulate. Does that include race riots and hate crimes and endless inquiries. Perhaps in Sydney we learnt to integrate without going through the really nasty stuff first.

[MARYROSE02]

Aussies do a pretty fair job at patronising others themselves. Only fair we cop a bit back.

 

Two wrongs make a right? I thought the Poms were supposed to be above that?

 

[h=4]Description of Two Wrongs Make a Right[/h] Two Wrongs Make a Right is a fallacy in which a person "justifies" an action against a person by asserting that the person would do the same thing to him/her, when the action is not necessary to prevent B from doing X to A. This fallacy has the following pattern of "reasoning":

 

 

1. It is claimed that person B would do X to person A.

2. It is acceptable for person A to do X to person B (when A's doing X to B is not necessary to prevent B from doing X to A).

 

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because an action that is wrong is wrong even if another person would also do it

 

[MARYROSE02]

Im not in the habit of saying to aussies (and my kids are aussies btw)"Australia is a teenager"MR2! I meant it in a kind of non threatening nice way,not at all patronising,which is what you assumed I was doing.That sat more about you than me!

 

But you said that Aussies were teenagers compared to the rest of the world. Why do you think that Aussies would find that to be a non-threatening and nice way of desribing them? Not unlike 'Flag' admitting that Aussies say he is aggressive, yet denying that is how he really is. Perhaps I find it patronising because it IS patronising. We trust those 'teenagers' to fly our planes, and take care of all our medical needs, and a thousand other things, yet they are still 'teenagers' 'What is wrong with you. Can't you see I'm just making a joke in a non threatening and nice way!

[MARYROSE02]

Sydney has never struck me as particularly cycle friendly, but I guess if you are in Balmain/Rozelle (?) then at least it's not as hilly as across the other side of the harbour bridge...! But still not my idea of easy going.

 

No, it certainly is not bike-friendly, but then again, since cyclists have taken over the pavements, it's not particularly pedestrian-friendly either!

[MARYROSE02]

Hardly trapped in a new world of hate. Being deluded and happy though may well be a strategy even if unintentional that results in happiness. Others may consider it an illness of sorts none the less.

 

So you do accept that we are all happy even if we are unconsciously ill, although of course we do not consider ourselves to be ill? Sounds like the sort of Utopia that I would like to live in. Hang on, I AM living in it!

[Bobj]

[h=3]How have you found the Aussies?[/h]

By looking under shady trees in The Darwin, The Katherine, The Alice, Kununurra and in Wyndham...:wink:

 

Cheers, Bobj.

[JockinTas]

Unfortunately I have to say that I find the Sydney buses pretty unreliable (mainly the 433, which has left me high and dry too many times in only 2 months).

 

And if you've been in Edinburgh then Lothian buses have won bus-of-the-year or something for the last million years. Trains seem good in Sydney though.

 

I'm hoping to buy a bike in the next week or so... So far been way too busy with all the other gubbins: medicare card, driving licence, bank accounts... as well as - oh yes - actual work!

 

I used to get the 412 bus in Sydney - totally unreliable. I was forever ringing up and complaining - not that it made any difference. I asked a driver what the problem was and he said they were short of drivers :mask: Also on a hot day, getting on a non air-conditioned train was sheer torture. It must have been 50C inside those trains.

[MARYROSE02]

Not sure if that is something to be admired or skimmed over lightly. Others of course think the whole thing has become overdone.

 

??? Who are these 'others?'

[MARYROSE02]

Sorry for the use of red, I just wanted my response to stand out, it's not meant to be a teachers mark or any thing.

 

But you yourself will have to agree that racism and peoples perception of racism will come from their socio-economic group, the lower down on the scale the more likely they are to experience it and the higher up they will experience less.

 

If that argument is true, then it means that poor white people will experience the same level of racism from rich non-white people, and of course poor non-white people will experience the same level of discrimination at the hands of rich non-white people. 'Untouchables' for instance in an society operating the caste system.

[BacktoDemocracy]

Well, if I thought it was patronising, why do you assume Aussies would NOT think it is patronising? How would you 'sweeten the pill' for them?

 

I find it kind of odd the way that umbrage is taken at any hint of criticism of Australia or Australian mores or customs, there seems to be lot of anger swerling around with the whole of the rest of the world for expressing how they experience Australia and Australians who as we know are 30% liklier to be an immigrant than most other countries so criticism is likely to be about another migrant as about a native Australian, excuse the use of native in its widest sense..

[MARYROSE02]

I find it kind of odd the way that umbrage is taken at any hint of criticism of Australia or Australian mores or customs, there seems to be lot of anger swerling around with the whole of the rest of the world for expressing how they experience Australia and Australians who as we know are 30% liklier to be an immigrant than most other countries so criticism is likely to be about another migrant as about a native Australian, excuse the use of native in its widest sense..

 

Except we are not talking about 'the whole of the rest of the world' and how they view Australia, but the negative opinions of a handful of unhappy migrants who make assertions about 'all' Australians.

 

'I don't like Australians, so nobody must like Australians.'

 

Take a poll of 1,000 people on PIO and see what they say about Australians, and you might have a point.

 

And you might like to look at some of the words used to portray Australians and substitute 'Australians' for. say 'Indians' or 'Africans.'

[Quinkla]

... the negative opinions of a handful of unhappy migrants who make assertions about 'all' Australians.

 

'I don't like Australians, so nobody must like Australians.'

 

I have read the whole thread and I don't think I am reading any posts that are saying this. It's really a bad habit to misrepresent opinions you disagree with purely to make it easier to offer counter-arguments.

[pob]

If that argument is true, then it means that poor white people will experience the same level of racism from rich non-white people, and of course poor non-white people will experience the same level of discrimination at the hands of rich non-white people. 'Untouchables' for instance in an society operating the caste system.

 

Or I could put it another way, just to clarify it for you because I don't seem to be easily understood.

If you are at the bottom of the ladder you are more likely to be abused, when rising up that ladder you will find that the more obvious forms of abuse start to fade away and they become more veiled.

But I said this in the next quote that you didn't choose to quote me on.

I never mentioned the "caste" system either.

[akiralx]

The British habit of running down their own country really makes me sick. I love that Australians are partriotic. Bring it on. The British have so much to be proud of, what's wrong with them that they don't shout it from the rooftops?

 

Well, there's a fine line between patriotism and jingoism. The Australian penchant for the latter stems from insecurity: they have a beautiful country (until the miners have finished with it) but there's a nagging recognition that in global terms the country is a backwater, politically and economically at least.

 

One of the most recognised nations on earth, but excluded from the G7, UN Security Council and NATO (obviously). Slightly irrelevant, though popular. A huge landmass but with a small population - an isolated oddity.

 

This insecurity festers and is manifested in the 'Screw you' attitude towards other nations or global organisations who dare to point out shortcomings.

[pob]

So you do accept that we are all happy even if we are unconsciously ill, although of course we do not consider ourselves to be ill? Sounds like the sort of Utopia that I would like to live in. Hang on, I AM living in it!

 

Happy to be unconsciously ill?

Happy to be deluded?

 

Happy to lead a blinkered life.

[akiralx]

But you said that Aussies were teenagers compared to the rest of the world. Why do you think that Aussies would find that to be a non-threatening and nice way of desribing them? Not unlike 'Flag' admitting that Aussies say he is aggressive, yet denying that is how he really is. Perhaps I find it patronising because it IS patronising. We trust those 'teenagers' to fly our planes, and take care of all our medical needs, and a thousand other things, yet they are still 'teenagers' 'What is wrong with you. Can't you see I'm just making a joke in a non threatening and nice way!

 

It was the country that was described as a teenager, not the inhabitants. All its post-settlement history is very new, just a few hundred years. Compared to most European countries, it is a teenager. There's been no Renaissance, Industrial Revolution, Enlightenment here. There are no Australian equivalents of Shakespeare, Beethoven, Goethe, Dickens, Voltaire, Newton or Brunel.

[Quinkla]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that Mary Rose might actually be quite lonely but is in denial. On previous threads, he has indicated that his life is solitary and his company is a bit of a revolving door or people who happen to come into his local pub or cafe and with whom he strikes up a conversation. There doesn't seem to be any emotional engagement or depth to these encounters. Every day starts off just like the last one - with a blank sheet. Mary Rose claims to be happy and gets emotional and defensive if anyone says something that might cause him to question his happiness. You are not going to win an argument with him based on reason because he has too much emotional investment in not ceding the point.

 

I could be wrong, of course, but this is the strong impression that is conveyed from having read his posts over an extended period of time.

[MARYROSE02]

It was the country that was described as a teenager, not the inhabitants. All its post-settlement history is very new, just a few hundred years. Compared to most European countries, it is a teenager. There's been no Renaissance, Industrial Revolution, Enlightenment here. There are no Australian equivalents of Shakespeare, Beethoven, Goethe, Dickens, Voltaire, Newton or Brunel.

Yet more patronising comments about Australia dismissing its history and culture as irrelevant because it is so 'new.' I guess you dismiss Joan Sutherland as a 3rd rate opera singer because she was Australian and The Bell Shakespeare Co as similarly 3rd rate because they are just Australian directors and actors without the history to put on real Shakespeare. And of course authors with real international reputations like Tom Kenneally, Patrick White, Tim Winton, Clive James, Germaine Greer, all rubbish.

 

In any case what difference does it make if Australia has not had its own experience of history's great events? They are as much the descendants of the people who experienced this events as people in Europe.

 

Australian doctors, lawyers, dentists etc are just as competent as their European counterparts. They should be well behind If your argument holds true.

 

Not bad for "teenagers."