David Cameron to introduce tough new laws on EU immigration in response to UKIP election wins.

[Guest51810]

After you said it I did wonder but tbh I've read so many similar posts on here it's hard to tell who's joking!

[Parley]

The disabled people get a lot of help. They get those stickers so they get the the best parking spots and they get their own huge toilets.

[Guest51810]

That's true, who cares about paying for food and heating when you have a huge toilet

[Thom]

After you said it I did wonder but tbh I've read so many similar posts on here it's hard to tell who's joking!

 

Oh it was only half in jest. Labour under Bliar dropped it's support of the working man and woman, and became the party of the Guardian reading, inner-city, middle-class-guilt-ridden metrosexual. Their emphasis these days is in trying to be the party which is non-judgmental, PC driven, "come on in everyone, free money for all foreigners, no need to work or be British" "none are responsible for anything they do", "criminals are all misunderstood people who have had hard lives and have mental health issues." :chatterbox:

Edited November 13, 2014 by Thom

[Harpodom]

Oh it was only half in jest. Labour under Bliar dropped it's support of the working man and woman, and became the party of the Guardian reading, inner-city, middle-class-guilt-ridden metrosexual. Their emphasis these days is in trying to be the party which is non-judgmental, PC driven, "come on in everyone, free money for all foreigners, no need to work or be British" "none are responsible for anything they do", "criminals are all misunderstood people who have had hard lives and have mental health issues." :chatterbox:

 

Don't you think the truth lies somewhere between the extremes you've mentioned and the other extreme which you imply to be the 'truth'?

 

Let's take your example of prisoners, I think its no mystery that rates of mental illness are much higher in prison populations than the general public.

 

Or the 'free money for all foreigners', that myth was recently busted by the report showing that European migrants are less of a drain and bring net benefit to the UK economy. As for non EU migrants, am I right in thinking they're NOT allowed to claim welfare benefits?

 

Hey, I know you're only jesting though, right?

[benthomas010]

..duplicate..

Edited November 13, 2014 by benthomas010

[benthomas010]

Don't you think the truth lies somewhere between the extremes you've mentioned and the other extreme which you imply to be the 'truth'?

 

Let's take your example of prisoners, I think its no mystery that rates of mental illness are much higher in prison populations than the general public.

 

Or the 'free money for all foreigners', that myth was recently busted by the report showing that European migrants are less of a drain and bring net benefit to the UK economy. As for non EU migrants, am I right in thinking they're NOT allowed to claim welfare benefits?

 

Hey, I know you're only jesting though, right?

Non EU migrants aren't allowed to claim welfare until they have indefinite leave to remain which takes a minimum of 5 years.

 

In order for my indonesian wife to stay in the country I have to earn in excess on £19k per year, have no reliance on welfare, prove we have suitable accomodation, prove her English language ability.. and pay thousands of pounds in visa fees - and we have to do this in year 1, 3 & 5. .. oh and soon we may have to pay £200 per year for her to access the NHS.

 

Anytime she uses the NHS she has to prove she is entitled to do so by showing her visa.. we even got asked this before being admitted when I rushed her into A & E barely concious through morning sickness.

 

And people think it's a free for all...

[Guest51810]

Someone I know said to me the other day "I hate labour now, I hate Tories so I guess that just leaves our mr farage to vote for". They don't like immigration so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised but I just sort of laughed and shook my head. I'm almost certain she wouldn't be able to tell me one other policy other than on immigration

[Toolbox]

Someone I know said to me the other day "I hate labour now, I hate Tories so I guess that just leaves our mr farage to vote for". They don't like immigration so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised but I just sort of laughed and shook my head. I'm almost certain she wouldn't be able to tell me one other policy other than on immigration

 

 

 

 

 

To be fair, I would say that probably applies to a large percentage of tory and labour voters.

[Guest51810]

To be fair, I would say that probably applies to a large percentage of tory and labour voters.

 

That's true. If people want to vote a certain way then it's none or my business.. I mean I voted a way that a lot wouldn't agree with. I just find it a little worrying that a lot are supporting UKIP without knowing any other policy or maybe it's just they don't care about any other policy other than immigration. Who knows. I don't mean people on here - just in general

[Harpodom]

That's true. If people want to vote a certain way then it's none or my business.. I mean I voted a way that a lot wouldn't agree with. I just find it a little worrying that a lot are supporting UKIP without knowing any other policy or maybe it's just they don't care about any other policy other than immigration. Who knows. I don't mean people on here - just in general

And it is more than slightly ironic that an anti immigration platform party has such a positive following on this, a migration forum.

 

But hold on, there's 'good migration' and 'bad migration', isn't there, apparently?

[grahamffc]

Immigrants have and always will be the easiest political target, usually wrongly. My Dad always says about how there it's s disgrace the is no manufacturing in the UK, well the problem is (as Australia is now finding out) that we cannot compete with Asia without an immigrant workforce.

 

Unemployment is as low as it's ever been and I think people would rather be working in call centres and offices than factories.

[Thom]

 

But hold on, there's 'good migration' and 'bad migration', isn't there, apparently?

 

Some one comes to a country with an offer of work, or recognised skills and professional qualifications to offer, and a desire to integrate and support themselves and the country, and to work to pay their way , that is good migration.

 

Someone with no skills, no intent to work but to bluge off the benefits system, and beg on the streets, to not integrate, but to send begging/benefits money out of the country, that is "bad migration."

 

Agreed?

[Thom]

 

Or the 'free money for all foreigners', that myth was recently busted by the report showing that European migrants are less of a drain and bring net benefit to the UK economy. As for non EU migrants, am I right in thinking they're NOT allowed to claim welfare benefits?

 

Hey, I know you're only jesting though, right?

 

Only half jesting.

 

That report you refer to was busted righteously as ignoring many factors, and basically was a comparison of apples and oranges.

[Lambethlad]

Anyone in Canberra is in for a treat today. They can go to parliament house and see Cameron in action. He's giving a speech to the Australian parliament.

[Harpodom]

Some one comes to a country with an offer of work, or recognised skills and professional qualifications to offer, and a desire to integrate and support themselves and the country, and to work to pay their way , that is good migration.

 

Someone with no skills, no intent to work but to bluge off the benefits system, and beg on the streets, to not integrate, but to send begging/benefits money out of the country, that is "bad migration."

 

Agreed?

 

Yeah in the main I agree, but isn't UKIP anti both? Or at least there is an implied belief that any migrant from eastern Europe comes from the latter group.

 

I think its one of those convenient political footballs for right wing politicians, to smear vast swathes of people with the 'no skills, no intent to work but to bluge off the benefits system, and beg on the streets, to not integrate' $hitty stick, when the truth is very different from the Murdoch/Daily Fail dogma.

[Thom]

Yeah in the main I agree, but isn't UKIP anti both? Or at least there is an implied belief that any migrant from eastern Europe comes from the latter group.

 

I think its one of those convenient political footballs for right wing politicians, to smear vast swathes of people with the 'no skills, no intent to work but to bluge off the benefits system, and beg on the streets, to not integrate' $hitty stick, when the truth is very different from the Murdoch/Daily Fail dogma.

 

 

I bow to your superior experience of UKIP philosophy and Murdoch/Daily Fail dogma. I've not seen any examples of it, care to share.

[Harpodom]

I bow to your superior experience of UKIP philosophy and Murdoch/Daily Fail dogma. I've not seen any examples of it, care to share.

https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1FLDB_enAU522&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=daily%20mail%20eastern%20european%20immigrants

[Harpodom]

Ukip leader Nigel Farage puts threat of immigrant crime wave at centre stage for European elections

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip-leader-nigel-farage-puts-threat-of-immigrant-crime-wave-at-centre-stage-for-european-elections-8827685.html

Edited November 14, 2014 by Harpodom

[Harpodom]

I like this one:

 

Ukip accused of 'hypocrisy' for hiring EU migrants to deliver leaflets in election campaign against immigration

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2622357/Ukip-investigates-tweet-white-indigenous-candidate-Cameron-says-dont-believe-bright-future.html#ixzz3IzsROL2E

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[Thom]

Ok, from the top;

 

Lord Sugar has called for an end to Britain's benefits culture claiming Eastern European immigrants see the country as 'the land of milk and honey'.

The Labour peer said hard-working people found abuse of the benefits system 'demoralising' and that it needed to be 'sorted out'.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Labour peer, not exactly right wing then?

 

Police, border and council officials removed just one homeless Eastern European out of 37 detained in central London this morning despite new 'stricter' rules on problem begging. Out of 37 homeless people screened at Marble Arch just two were put on flights home - with one going voluntarily due to ill health - on £200 flights paid for by the tax payer. The operation was aimed at combating the 'offensive consequences' caused by beggars harassing shopkeepers, local residents and tourists in six boroughs in the capital.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You agreed with this above.

 

But, amid criticism of the fact the report did not include the potential future costs associated with the EU migrants growing older and using more State services, critics pointed to Professor Dustmann’s past history.

Sir Andrew Green, chairman of Migrationwatch, said: ‘It is possible that Professor Dustmann’s enthusiasm is not entirely unrelated to the fact that he was a lead researcher on the 2003 Home Office paper which calculated that immigration from Eastern Europe would be between 5,000 and 13,000 a year.’

In the event, more than one million workers from Eastern Europe arrived between 2004 and the end of 2009 – an average of around 200,000 a year.

 

 

 

Yep, exactly as I said!

 

The figures emerged as a leaked Whitehall memo warned of an eastern European crime explosion on Britain's streets once Romania and Bulgaria become the latest states to join the EU in two months time. The secret Cabinet Office paper sent to Tony Blair and senior ministers highlights the risk of a sharp rise in street violence, people-trafficking, prostitution, cash-machine thefts and fraud.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tony Bliar, which party was he a member of?

 

Non-European migrants living in Britain have cost the public finances almost £120billion since 1995, according to a study.

The report by University College London found that the immigrants had cost the country more in public services and State handouts than they had paid in taxes in every single year between 1995 and 2011. The research by Dr Tommaso Frattini and Professor Christian Dustmann – which comes at a time of huge public concern over migration policy – sought to put an overwhelmingly positive gloss on the economic impact of mass immigration.

 

 

 

 

 

For 12 of the past 17 years, native Britons have taken out more in public services and State benefits than they have paid to the Exchequer.

Millions of workers will have made a net contribution.

But, overall, the drain on the public finances between 1995 and 2011 was more than £541billion – reflecting the significant deficit being racked up in recent years.

Factors include rising unemployment and the large welfare bill during the financial crash, which began in 2008.

The report ends in 2011 just as the economic recovery is getting under way.

 

 

Crucially, this group includes all non-EEA migrants – not just the new arrivals since 2000, who Dustmann and Frattini focus upon.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Indeed, just what i said.

 

You're proving me right, thanks for that.

[Harpodom]

Can you answer every article that came up on that Google search @Thom? Run along now!

[Thom]

Oh come on now that's just silly and childish.

 

You made a claim about a report and about UKIP.

 

You presented a link to a Google search as evidence

 

Your own links show nothing about UKIP, but do show that the report you credited was erroneous, and that Labour not right-wing were behind the comments you claimed were "Murdoch/Daily Fail dogma"

[Harpodom]

Oh come on now that's just silly and childish.

 

You made a claim about a report and about UKIP.

 

You presented a link to a Google search as evidence

 

Your own links show nothing about UKIP, but do show that the report you credited was erroneous, and that Labour not right-wing were behind the comments you claimed were "Murdoch/Daily Fail dogma"

 

Stop being disingenuous, you know exactly what I mean about UKIP/Daily Fail vs Eastern Europeans.

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/01/ukip-stokes-fear-over-bulgarian-and-romanian-immigration-countdown-clock

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2737535/Police-immigration-officers-round-dozens-rough-sleepers-central-London-crackdown-offensive-begging.html

[Thom]

Stop being disingenuous, you know exactly what I mean about UKIP/Daily Fail vs Eastern Europeans.

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/01/ukip-stokes-fear-over-bulgarian-and-romanian-immigration-countdown-clock

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2737535/Police-immigration-officers-round-dozens-rough-sleepers-central-London-crackdown-offensive-begging.html

 

No, what I KNOW is that you have used a vapid cliché, one which does not stand up to a moment's scrutiny, as I proved using quotes from your own links.

 

Now then to your more recent links.

 

Your first one is from January 2013, don't you think politics has moved on some in the nearly two years since that was published? But even so, all it actually tells us is that UKIP are anti-immigration. I don't think anyone is going to be surprised by that revelation.

 

 

Your second one tells us that the police rounded up a group of beggars on the streets of London, and one was sent home. What did you hope to prove by this? Do you think the police should not round up illegal immigrants, or just that it should not be reported?

The same arrests were reported in the ultra-Left-wing Guardian to, so what does that tell us? Does this make it different?