David Cameron to introduce tough new laws on EU immigration in response to UKIP election wins.

[flag of convenience]

What happens to all the Brits abroad in Spain etc? Would they still be allowed to stay?

 

Become an imposition on NHS not to say local councils for those in need of shelter.

[Guest51810]

I was waiting on someone saying it was a dumb question, I just genuinely wondered. There's so many Brits abroad. Your right though - if they had to come back then I imagine elderly services are going to be a total strain

[flag of convenience]

I was waiting on someone saying it was a dumb question, I just genuinely wondered. There's so many Brits abroad. Your right though - if they had to come back then I imagine elderly services are going to be a total strain

 

Not such thing as a dumb question on this forum. You must know that. Even less of a dumb reply.

[Parley]

I think English people were living in Spain prior to the eu anyway.

I don't think Britain will leave the EU. Referendums always fail.

[Guest51810]

I think English people were living in Spain prior to the eu anyway.

I don't think Britain will leave the EU. Referendums always fail.

 

I hope the EU pull the big guns out and we hear constantly about how the sky will fall down if the UK leave the EU :laugh:

[MARYROSE02]

Remind me after how many had crossed the border. Turkey had in a week or so what Australia had in a year.It would equate Indonesia in turmoil and hundreds of thousands fleeing to come here. Australia failed to cope with the relative low numbers that came by boat, interesting how air arrivals are never mentioned, as such no comparison at all.

 

At least I know now you do favour some controls over who comes into Australia. The only question now, is how many before you would turn back the boats?

 

And it was the ALP government who failed to cope. The Lib government knew just what to do!

[MARYROSE02]

The immigration Ponzi scheme feeds into shoring up the housing sector, which in turn is about the only viable sector growing at the moment. As such excess immigration is encouraged to make up in part the short falls as a result of the declining ore sector. Hence a Ponzi scheme. One feeds into another but neither is sustainable. It has been debated just to what degree there is a housing shortage and how much is hype. The hype certainly called the bluff of a number of speculators here in WA. Down quids. The small flow of refugees could have actually filled some of those empty houses in country locations as well as restoring vitality and life to areas so badly in need of people.

 

If it's a Ponzi scheme, then at some point, we will have masses of empty houses and blocks of units, and thousands of investors, home owners, and developers all bankrupt. That could happen, but not because of some Ponzi scheme, just the normal up and downs in the economy.

 

I don't understand what it is about the present immigration flow into Australia? Is it massively larger than in previous decades? The developers who build the homes are mostly the same companies who always build them - Meriton for example, who have building and developing blocks of units here in Sydney for as long as I've been here.

 

I presume that in WA, as mining grew, and the number of people who moved there to work, assuming they lived there rather than 'FIFO', needed homes to live in. I remember reading about rental prices skyrocketing because there were no homes available in some parts of WA.

 

I'm no economist. I admit that. Don't Ponzi schemes eventually collapse leaving everybody except the luck few who got in early broke? How often in the past has the real estate industry in OZ resulted in Ponzi schemes? I know people have ended up with negative equity in their homes, which is bad, but hardly the same as a Ponzi scheme.

[MARYROSE02]

I have mixed feelings about the EU. Perhaps it has grown too large? The one thing I do like about it is that for the last seventy years the French and Germans have been at peace. In the previous seventy years, they fought three ruinous wars, only one of which did not involve Britain.

[flag of convenience]

At least I know now you do favour some controls over who comes into Australia. The only question now, is how many before you would turn back the boats?

 

And it was the ALP government who failed to cope. The Lib government knew just what to do!

 

It was the ALP that started detention centres. Not a matter of turning the boats back as such, That is polly talk. A mater of seeking intelligent solutions to an international matter within that context. Not repetitive Tory party political broadcasts as has been the case.

[flag of convenience]

If it's a Ponzi scheme, then at some point, we will have masses of empty houses and blocks of units, and thousands of investors, home owners, and developers all bankrupt. That could happen, but not because of some Ponzi scheme, just the normal up and downs in the economy.

 

I don't understand what it is about the present immigration flow into Australia? Is it massively larger than in previous decades? The developers who build the homes are mostly the same companies who always build them - Meriton for example, who have building and developing blocks of units here in Sydney for as long as I've been here.

 

I presume that in WA, as mining grew, and the number of people who moved there to work, assuming they lived there rather than 'FIFO', needed homes to live in. I remember reading about rental prices skyrocketing because there were no homes available in some parts of WA.

 

I'm no economist. I admit that. Don't Ponzi schemes eventually collapse leaving everybody except the luck few who got in early broke? How often in the past has the real estate industry in OZ resulted in Ponzi schemes? I know people have ended up with negative equity in their homes, which is bad, but hardly the same as a Ponzi scheme.

 

As I have already stated if you chose to read what I have written over the months. This is already the case. The place WA's North West region. Scores of empty houses mostly built within the past two or so years laying empty. WE handed back the last of three at the end of October. Rented for $1,500 a week in prime and down to $500 a week after negotiation for final six months. Now even less but empty.

 

No the economy at the moment has replaced housing activity as a replacement for declining mining activity. The low rates of credit for now has maintained a housing boom especially in the biggest cities as investors are very active. The price has passed ordinary people by and greatly distorted the market as a whole.

This is far removed from normal boom to bust cycles as housing has gone out of reach for average Australians in most cities unless severely compromising but living in the distant outskirts in poorly located, in many instances, housing.

 

The foreign investor explosion is said to have risen Sydney pieces by at least 10%. Locals are being out bid at almost every action in prime Sydney locations by outsiders, and now developers complain that they to are being out bid to the tune of 25% on development sites in Sydney and Melbourne.

 

The Australian the mouth piece of business and banking interests and pro government policy takes a pedestrian view of all this. To find out what is really happening you will need to dig deeper.

 

Ponzi schemes do indeed collapse. Thing being with government backing and bank over exposure to the housing market can the powers that be allow it to? If the banks look to be in trouble it is fairly obvious who will bail them out. The safest way if not too late would have been the allowing of slow deflation after the 08 GFC.

Now prices have escalated to such a degree no government is likely to do what is necessary due to voter back lash. The result will be very interesting. When the rates do increase at some future stage the shock waves will be massive to those that have bought using low credit , often interest only loan payments, to enable them to jump on the buy to rent band wagon.

[flag of convenience]

I have mixed feelings about the EU. Perhaps it has grown too large? The one thing I do like about it is that for the last seventy years the French and Germans have been at peace. In the previous seventy years, they fought three ruinous wars, only one of which did not involve Britain.

 

Without doubt it became to large. It didn't have time to digest the earlier additional members from the South. I always thought it was impossible for countries like Greece to compete with the high living standards of Germany and Netherlands for example without a considerable cost to all involved. I saw how prices escalated in Portugal, one of my favourite countries over a period of years of fairly regular visits. It impacted on the fabric of the country. People went out far less. Places I used to go and drink and eat, full a few years before were greatly reduced in patronage after the price rises after EU entry. But Lisbon changed. Massive refurbishment and construction as that city underwent development paid for by EU funding.

[MARYROSE02]

As I have already stated if you chose to read what I have written over the months. This is already the case. The place WA's North West region. Scores of empty houses mostly built within the past two or so years laying empty. WE handed back the last of three at the end of October. Rented for $1,500 a week in prime and down to $500 a week after negotiation for final six months. Now even less but empty.

 

No the economy at the moment has replaced housing activity as a replacement for declining mining activity. The low rates of credit for now has maintained a housing boom especially in the biggest cities as investors are very active. The price has passed ordinary people by and greatly distorted the market as a whole.

This is far removed from normal boom to bust cycles as housing has gone out of reach for average Australians in most cities unless severely compromising but living in the distant outskirts in poorly located, in many instances, housing.

 

The foreign investor explosion is said to have risen Sydney pieces by at least 10%. Locals are being out bid at almost every action in prime Sydney locations by outsiders, and now developers complain that they to are being out bid to the tune of 25% on development sites in Sydney and Melbourne.

 

The Australian the mouth piece of business and banking interests and pro government policy takes a pedestrian view of all this. To find out what is really happening you will need to dig deeper.

 

Ponzi schemes do indeed collapse. Thing being with government backing and bank over exposure to the housing market can the powers that be allow it to? If the banks look to be in trouble it is fairly obvious who will bail them out. The safest way if not too late would have been the allowing of slow deflation after the 08 GFC.

Now prices have escalated to such a degree no government is likely to do what is necessary due to voter back lash. The result will be very interesting. When the rates do increase at some future stage the shock waves will be massive to those that have bought using low credit , often interest only loan payments, to enable them to jump on the buy to rent band wagon.

 

Why do you have to be so good at economics, never my strong point? Mind you, one of my brothers has been saying the same thing, not about Ponzi schemes, just that, ever since 2000, 'the property market is going to crash tomorrow, if not sooner, so you'd better sell your home right now, rent it back, and then buy it back when the market comes back up.

 

I don't know what the answer is in those remote mining towns. First they have insufficient homes, then too many. But then again, not every small town goes bust, and historically too, it is not unusual, hence the 'ghost' towns, following previous 'gold rushes' and the like.

 

People have always used 'negative gearing' to invest in property, or shares, using interest only loans. Some get 'burned', of course, and there will always be recessions. Perhaps, you are right after all, and 'we are all going to die.'

 

The NSW economy has picked up of late, and the WA economy gone down of late? But then the two states have different sorts of economies? We have our own coal mining industry of course, and. as Harpo knows, 'what is good for NSW is bad for the rest of the planet!'

 

Didn't I read somewhere that one of the reasons the US is going to be able to reduce its carbone emission is by large-scale investment in the hated (in OZ) fracking. Plus they will probably invest more in the equally hated nuclear and hydro-electric schemes.

[flag of convenience]

I think English people were living in Spain prior to the eu anyway.

I don't think Britain will leave the EU. Referendums always fail.

 

They were but in nowhere the numbers. The EU made living anywhere in the EU a formality. Also the type of person moving changed. Spain attracted a vast number with limited economic potential outside od an Aged Pension, with little to no knowledge or interest in learning the language, to form like minded communities which was not the case prior to EU entry.

[MARYROSE02]

Without doubt it became to large. It didn't have time to digest the earlier additional members from the South. I always thought it was impossible for countries like Greece to compete with the high living standards of Germany and Netherlands for example without a considerable cost to all involved. I saw how prices escalated in Portugal, one of my favourite countries over a period of years of fairly regular visits. It impacted on the fabric of the country. People went out far less. Places I used to go and drink and eat, full a few years before were greatly reduced in patronage after the price rises after EU entry. But Lisbon changed. Massive refurbishment and construction as that city underwent development paid for by EU funding.

 

I thought the Greeks brought it on themselves, not wanting to pay tax, and / or wanting to retire at 50. Lots of countries are probably/possibly going to get stung eventually by not investing enough to be able to pay pensions to an aging population.

 

The Germans, most of the time, have just been so much more efficient than the rest of us, even just about (?) managing to absorb all those bludgers from the East. (The wonders of a truly socialist economy finally revealed to an astonished Western Europe?)

[flag of convenience]

Why do you have to be so good at economics, never my strong point? Mind you, one of my brothers has been saying the same thing, not about Ponzi schemes, just that, ever since 2000, 'the property market is going to crash tomorrow, if not sooner, so you'd better sell your home right now, rent it back, and then buy it back when the market comes back up.

 

I don't know what the answer is in those remote mining towns. First they have insufficient homes, then too many. But then again, not every small town goes bust, and historically too, it is not unusual, hence the 'ghost' towns, following previous 'gold rushes' and the like.

 

People have always used 'negative gearing' to invest in property, or shares, using interest only loans. Some get 'burned', of course, and there will always be recessions. Perhaps, you are right after all, and 'we are all going to die.'

 

The NSW economy has picked up of late, and the WA economy gone down of late? But then the two states have different sorts of economies? We have our own coal mining industry of course, and. as Harpo knows, 'what is good for NSW is bad for the rest of the planet!'

 

Didn't I read somewhere that one of the reasons the US is going to be able to reduce its carbone emission is by large-scale investment in the hated (in OZ) fracking. Plus they will probably invest more in the equally hated nuclear and hydro-electric schemes.

 

In 2000 there was little evidence of anything like a collapse. The Sydney market had overheated but cooled down for a few years and some voices were warning but the rest of Australia was not in that position. Purchased first house in 2000, one of the first to profit from the $7000, as it was at the time First Home Owners Grant. Why do you think the government brought that out? Not because the market was going bangers it wasn't'. It was in decline. I could have purchased a one bedroom unit, with spitting distance to city for $32,000. I could bargain down tradies at the time on quotes. No 2000 was another period. Last of the good years in my book.

 

The Housing Grant had the desired impact in turning around the dead market and around 04 the mining boom began its continuous assault on house prices. Now we have got to where we are in territory never before entered. The price of housing in Australia is said to be the third most expensive in the world.

 

We have not always had negative gearing and it was stopped by Keating for a short period but he got cold feet over the reaction. It would appear unsustainable in its present form creating greater unaffordability. Possibly too hot a potato to touch for any government and it may not until more of the locked out generation becomes more numerous than the entitlement generation before change comes. Although I think the situation will warrant change before then and it will become a political issue for a minor party to focus on.

[flag of convenience]

I thought the Greeks brought it on themselves, not wanting to pay tax, and / or wanting to retire at 50. Lots of countries are probably/possibly going to get stung eventually by not investing enough to be able to pay pensions to an aging population.

 

The Germans, most of the time, have just been so much more efficient than the rest of us, even just about (?) managing to absorb all those bludgers from the East. (The wonders of a truly socialist economy finally revealed to an astonished Western Europe?)

 

You cannot have a poor economy matched with a rich economy and expect the same result. That was the outstanding issue on joining. Greece developed a taste for the good life after entry in 81. Prior to that it was casual, easy going but rather poor.

[Thom]

British population of Spain in 2014 was estimated to be about 297,229

 

Not huge when compared to the numbers from the EU coming into the UK.

[MARYROSE02]

You cannot have a poor economy matched with a rich economy and expect the same result. That was the outstanding issue on joining. Greece developed a taste for the good life after entry in 81. Prior to that it was casual, easy going but rather poor.

 

Some of that I agree with, and in The Australian today, there was an article about the difficulties the present Indian PM faces trying to reform the Indian economy (to try and catch up with China) without upsetting various groups which prefer the status quo, public servants, food subisidies to the rural sector, much of it still illiterate but with a a huge percentage of the vote - 40 per cent I think, and a 'first past the post' electoral system.

 

You are assuming that in the case of Greece, and some other countries, that if they had not joined the EU, they would have maintained a pleasant status quo. I doubt if it was very pleasant, hence the large numbers of Greeks, Italians, etc, who migrated, to Australia and other countries.

 

Perhaps their economy would have collapsed anyway, as the Warsaw Pact economies collapsed? If people don't pay enough tax, then how does the government find the funds to pay for services? I guess lots of people are going to find this out - painfully - when they come to retire? (including me!?)

[Paul1Perth]

Knee-jerk politics appears to be the way the UK is run now. Another example of how the parties in power are not representative of public sentiment.

 

I would think it's exactly the opposite peterc. The pollies are trying to react to public sentiment by making these knee jerk reactions. They know from recent local election results how the majority of people are thinking and they think they have their finger on the pulse as far as public sentiment goes.

 

Most people I've met in the UK wish their pollies could do a lot more to control immigration. Trouble is there is very little they can do being in the EU.

[Paul1Perth]

Immigrants have and always will be the easiest political target, usually wrongly. My Dad always says about how there it's s disgrace the is no manufacturing in the UK, well the problem is (as Australia is now finding out) that we cannot compete with Asia without an immigrant workforce.

 

Unemployment is as low as it's ever been and I think people would rather be working in call centres and offices than factories.

 

Even factory work takes a certain amount of skill and training and used to pay a bit more than call centres and office work. Usually because the factories were producing something worthwhile and profitable rather than just bothering people around meal times or walking around with a piece of paper in a hand trying to look like you are actually doing something.

[bunbury61]

Why do you have to be so good at economics, never my strong point? Mind you, one of my brothers has been saying the same thing, not about Ponzi schemes, just that, ever since 2000, 'the property market is going to crash tomorrow, if not sooner, so you'd better sell your home right now, rent it back, and then buy it back when the market comes back up.

 

I don't know what the answer is in those remote mining towns. First they have insufficient homes, then too many. But then again, not every small town goes bust, and historically too, it is not unusual, hence the 'ghost' towns, following previous 'gold rushes' and the like.

 

People have always used 'negative gearing' to invest in property, or shares, using interest only loans. Some get 'burned', of course, and there will always be recessions. Perhaps, you are right after all, and 'we are all going to die.'

 

The NSW economy has picked up of late, and the WA economy gone down of late? But then the two states have different sorts of economies? We have our own coal mining industry of course, and. as Harpo knows, 'what is good for NSW is bad for the rest of the planet!'

 

Didn't I read somewhere that one of the reasons the US is going to be able to reduce its carbone emission is by large-scale investment in the hated (in OZ) fracking. Plus they will probably invest more in the equally hated nuclear and hydro-electric schemes.

 

just reading your last paragraph MR .......that U.S is now fully back in control of the global economy ....working in conjunction with the saudis ......oil is traded in dollars , and the U.S has massive oil reserves built up , plus its huge ongoing gas supply due to fracking .

The u.s is driving the russian economy into the floor by artificially dropping the oil price ...russias economy is heavily linked to this ...its their way of saying ..." we told you to stay out of crimea and ukraine , and not to get involved in syria ...plus you have been supplying the iranian nuclear project , so we are going to take you down " .

Watch the yanks move over this north korean hacking scandal as well

 

In relation to property , i watched a programme about 60 luxury apartments , built on the south bank of the thames ....22 were held back for hong kong investors ...not even up for grabs in london .....

i Know the same is going on in sydney and melbourne ....chinese investors flying in ...i will have that one ...that one ...and that one

[bunbury61]

I thought the Greeks brought it on themselves, not wanting to pay tax, and / or wanting to retire at 50. Lots of countries are probably/possibly going to get stung eventually by not investing enough to be able to pay pensions to an aging population.

 

The Germans, most of the time, have just been so much more efficient than the rest of us, even just about (?) managing to absorb all those bludgers from the East. (The wonders of a truly socialist economy finally revealed to an astonished Western Europe?)

 

The greeks should never have been allowed into the E.U anyway , they failed all the fiscal tests ....but the e.u was desperate for them to join .

If the e.u was solely the northern european countries it would be a roaring success ....u.k ...denmark ...germany etc ......the southern european countries live by a different set of fiscal rules......that dont add up .

 

i was taliking to a bloke at a party the other week ....his wife is standing as a prospective tory councillor in a strong white working class labour area of the west midlands .....they keep getting the same reply on most doorsteps .... WE WILL BE VOTING UKIP

[Guest51810]

just reading your last paragraph MR .......that U.S is now fully back in control of the global economy ....working in conjunction with the saudis ......oil is traded in dollars , and the U.S has massive oil reserves built up , plus its huge ongoing gas supply due to fracking .

The u.s is driving the russian economy into the floor by artificially dropping the oil price ...russias economy is heavily linked to this ...its their way of saying ..." we told you to stay out of crimea and ukraine , and not to get involved in syria ...plus you have been supplying the iranian nuclear project , so we are going to take you down " .

Watch the yanks move over this north korean hacking scandal as well

 

In relation to property , i watched a programme about 60 luxury apartments , built on the south bank of the thames ....22 were held back for hong kong investors ...not even up for grabs in london .....

i Know the same is going on in sydney and melbourne ....chinese investors flying in ...i will have that one ...that one ...and that one

 

My last boss was a Chinese. He bought a big hotel in Lake District for a good price and then holiday cottages too. Plus properties back in china. Only in his 30's. Not bad!