djames2012 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Hi all I'm completely new to this site and am in need of help pretty quickly.... I am an electrician currently living in QLD and have been for just over 2 years, on a 457 sponsored visa. On 6th June 2014 I lodged my application for a subclass 189 Permanent Residency visa and am currently still waiting to be assigned a case officer (nearly 17 weeks ago!) However....... I have been very foolish, extremely stupid actually, and I am now in limbo as to what to do... I went to court for drink driving in July 2012, when in Australia (marginally over the legal limit), I was fined and was also granted a Work Licence and was restricted to driving at certain times for 9 months. When I received my Australian Federal Police Certificate, this did not show up - my record was clean, so I did not declare this as it wasn't a conviction. Should I have declared it? However, this is not the end........ After I submitted all documents for my PR...... In July 2014 I was then convicted of drink driving again, this time a high reading. I received 15 months suspension and a $1500 fine. However, At the same time, "restricted drugs' (not mine) were found in my possession (some sort of viagra type, without a prescription). I was fined $500 for this but no conviction was recorded. I am waiting for a new police certificate to arrive to send to the DIAC, but the restricted drugs thing I have been told by Police will again not show up. Back in 2006 in the UK I also had a drink driving conviction amongst other things, but 457 was granted quickly. I know I have been extremely stupid and most of you will be thinking what was I thinking, but I can assure that nothing like this will ever happen again. Should I immediately tell the DIAC about all things, even if not a conviction?? And do they do more than just look at the documents submitted, for example go on the national police database? I am aware there are Forms 1023 and 1022 that allow me to do this before a decision is made (maybe its a good thing I haven't had a C/O assigned yet). And also, will these offences prevent me from getting my Permanent Residency granted? Any advice is greatly appreciated and I am fully aware of my stupidity and realise it is a messy situation. Thanks in advance for any constructive comments/replies. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blossom Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Mod hat on. There will be a few people wanting to tell the op he has been an idiot. That is not what this thread is for. Any insulting posts will be removed and warnings given. Helpful advice only please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeelD Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Hi djames2012, Maybe wait what the police check comes back with. If its clear then there is nothing for you to stress about. You have made a mistake or few and hopefully have learnt from that. In my opinion if you tell DIAC something which you has no impact on your record, they might go against granting you PR visa...this all depends on who your CO is. If your report comes back clear then leave it our and you don't need to mention it. Also with the amount of people that apply for a visa, DIAC will have no time to go into a database to check on individual records hence they depend on the PCC. Just apply and fingers crossed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djames2012 Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 Hi djames2012, Maybe wait what the police check comes back with. If its clear then there is nothing for you to stress about. You have made a mistake or few and hopefully have learnt from that. In my opinion if you tell DIAC something which you has no impact on your record, they might go against granting you PR visa...this all depends on who your CO is. If your report comes back clear then leave it our and you don't need to mention it. Also with the amount of people that apply for a visa, DIAC will have no time to go into a database to check on individual records hence they depend on the PCC. Just apply and fingers crossed Thank you so much for your reply. I received a letter from QLD Roads etc stating I have got a conviction now, never had one on the last occasion. Im just wondering if I submit the new AFP check with a conviction on, will they look further into my history and the dilemma I have is should I declare everything now....... hmm Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blossom Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Well they only ask for convictions, not just fines etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djames2012 Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 Hi blossom79 Yes on the immi.gov website is does state all recorded offences must be declared, but on Form 80, which I filled out and submitted before I received a conviction and did not declare previous DUI as I was not convicted, it asks if I have "been charged with any offence or if there are any proceedings against me"... I have added a screenshot just incase you haven't filled this form out. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenLozza Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Just wait until you have been granted a CO, and then you can contact him/her and forward on your uptodate police certificate, Oz law is slightly different from the UK, I think they fine you without conviction a bit like our fixed penalty notice as this didn't actually appear on your record, so just declare what's on the police certificate! Oh and ps stay away from booze and it seems you are not learning from your mistakes. I don't think it'll hinder your application since you haven't been to jail for it, but your CO may ask for a UK police certificate, my 1 came back with No Live Trace but this means that there has been a conviction but is now considered "spent" again should declare your UK convictions and then write a Sob story on how you have learnt your lesson etc and make sure you write down you know how foolish you've been and there was no excuse for this sort of behaviour, your CO will see this more favourable rather than you defending your actions, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djames2012 Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 Hi StevenLozza Thank you very much for your reply. i am just concerned that if I don't declare everything now if this will go against me at Citizenship stage when they do the police check (if it gets that far). Yes, since this happened again it has really affected me and I have hardly been out drinking since, maybe 1 or 2 with dinner. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal2 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 just reading StevenLozza post it appears that if you have been charged with any offence you need to declare it, and certainly the UK offence is classed as a charge and conviction - not sure about the Australian side, I'd be tempted to consult an MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djames2012 Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 Hi yes Ive always declared my UK convictions, and also for PR here. I just didn't the first DUI as it didn't show up on AFP check, and it was only until after PR was submitted the 2nd happened.... I have since ordered another AFP check and will forward on and declare the other charges - just to be safe. I know it will come back to haunt me on Citizenship..... Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainC Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Hi yes Ive always declared my UK convictions, and also for PR here. I just didn't the first DUI as it didn't show up on AFP check, and it was only until after PR was submitted the 2nd happened.... I have since ordered another AFP check and will forward on and declare the other charges - just to be safe. I know it will come back to haunt me on Citizenship..... Thanks I think you're doing absolutely the right thing. You could neglect telling them in the first place then have to explain why you didn't mention it and then they might start delving and make matters worse so I believe honesty is the best policy, especially with DIBP because you never know when it might come back to bite you in the backside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveinmunich Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Mate the Convictions wont stop you getting your PR, best declaring them. its really only jail time.. drug tarfficing involvment with guns and the like that would stop you. I would seriously Sort that driving home drunk thing out though bud, i know the temptaion is to easy, but one day it could affect not just your criminal record, but another life. Best of luck mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djames2012 Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 Hi CaptainC and steveinmunich Yes I agree with you both. It's always to be better to be honest. Yes the drink driving is incredibly stupid...... really let myself down and don't want to be another "Brit/European abroad" and give us an even worse reputation. Luckily I have had an email from immigration requesting "Clarifaction" regarding my PR application/documentation, so no decision has been made yet. If this isn't anything to do with my character (as it will take upto 5 working days to receive this email), then I can send my new AFP check and form 1022/3 for "changes in my circumstances/application" Thanks guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenLozza Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Hi CaptainC and steveinmunich Yes I agree with you both. It's always to be better to be honest. Yes the drink driving is incredibly stupid...... really let myself down and don't want to be another "Brit/European abroad" and give us an even worse reputation. Luckily I have had an email from immigration requesting "Clarifaction" regarding my PR application/documentation, so no decision has been made yet. If this isn't anything to do with my character (as it will take upto 5 working days to receive this email), then I can send my new AFP check and form 1022/3 for "changes in my circumstances/application" Thanks guys Your CO will defo ask you to explain what happened with your convictions, and like I said just be willing to call yourself down and how you've learned from your mistakes etc, Good luck with the application, I'm sure it'll be all good, maybe even add a couple of state decs from some aussie mates stating how good a person you are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raul Senise Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 The issue may not be straight forward. Many are under the impression that as long as you have not gone to goal for 12 month you are fine. This is not the case. Depending on what was disclosed and when, you may have an issue meeting Public Interest Criteria 4020 – “providing information that is false or misleading in a material particular.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Here is an excellent 4020 case: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/FCAFC/2014/42.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djames2012 Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 Thanks for your comments and help Steven Lozza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djames2012 Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 Hi Paul Senise and wrussell Thanks for your input and the link, very interesting reading. Would I avoid a situation like this if I lodged a Form 1022 and Form 1023 immediately, followed by the new AFP check when it arrives, as I have not had a decision off imigration yet? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 As already mentioned. I think you need professional advice. You can wait until immi make a decision and risk it is one you won't like - possibly not only a refusal but also decoration / ban from Australia (which also effects travel to any country even for holidays) or seek some assistance now to get it sorted prior. Both of the agents that have commented are highly respected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacaranda Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I don't know anything about this possibly affecting your application,but I do know,if it were me,I'd rather disclose it and be honest.If your visa is still granted,atleast you can move forward,with confidence,and start your new life afresh!If you don't disclose it,and you still get your visa,you might not be able to relax/settle in as well,thinking "What if immi find out". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrussell Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Hi Paul Senise and wrussell Thanks for your input and the link, very interesting reading. Would I avoid a situation like this if I lodged a Form 1022 and Form 1023 immediately, followed by the new AFP check when it arrives, as I have not had a decision off imigration yet? thanks If you do not lodge a 'change of circumstances form' you could fall foul of section 104, but from what has been posted, probably not 4020. Do not take this as professional advice. I am not advising you, only commenting. You might want to have a look at this link: http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2014B00191/Explanatory%20Memorandum/Text Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnAndGraeme Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Here is an excellent 4020 case: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/FCAFC/2014/42.html Makes for a good read Ouch. shouldn't have cheated then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dean1909 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 How did your application go in the end? Partner in simular situation so just trying to see where we stand . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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