pablo Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 I told you I have no idea what they are all used for so I can't give an educated answer. As as for the hand outs I asked what hand outs? Are you deeming things like entertaining foreign leaders as hand outs? If so I think that the tax payer should pay for such things. Forget about sidetracking re entertaining foreign leaders,do you think it right she has 330 mill in the bank,yet scrounges from the public purse?disgusting in my eyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny842003 Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Forget about sidetracking re entertaining foreign leaders,do you think it right she has 330 mill in the bank,yet scrounges from the public purse?disgusting in my eyes It's not a side track if this is what your 'hand outs' are sp not on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srg73 Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 There is nothing more entertaining then left and right arguments. The left leaning case is usually bitter and twisted, full of envy. The right wing case is usually more measured but does have a snobby feel to it. My my opinion is that anybody on this site has conservative tendencies as one of their founding principles is to reduce the level of restriction and allow people to plan and proceed with their own lives ie moving to Australia? Currently looking back at the UK from the outside, there are major issues, too many restrictions, too many people, too much commercial pressure, too expensive and yes too few people with too much influence. There are many positives including the Royal Family (who are constantly in the news here), the history, freedom of expression etc. S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 There is nothing more entertaining then left and right arguments. The left leaning case is usually bitter and twisted, full of envy. The right wing case is usually more measured but does have a snobby feel to it. My my opinion is that anybody on this site has conservative tendencies as one of their founding principles is to reduce the level of restriction and allow people to plan and proceed with their own lives ie moving to Australia? Currently looking back at the UK from the outside, there are major issues, too many restrictions, too many people, too much commercial pressure, too expensive and yes too few people with too much influence. There are many positives including the Royal Family (who are constantly in the news here), the history, freedom of expression etc. S There is nothing more entertaining than amateur psychologists who put people in neat little boxes,re affirms their sheltered but comfortable beliefs maybe,gnite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 As someone who comes from a working class area and has worked since I was 16 I would be more than happy to see less generous social spending. Ah, the 'drawbridge mentality'.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Forget about sidetracking re entertaining foreign leaders,do you think it right she has 330 mill in the bank,yet scrounges from the public purse?disgusting in my eyes The Queen pays tax on her personal income and money received from tax payers is not for her personal wealth but is for paying staff and other expenses of the office of the Head of State. I believe it costs about £30million a year so if she had to pay it out of her personal wealth, then she would have been bankrupt a long time ago. A presidency would also cost money, probably a lot more. The Queen has dedicated her life to serve this country and she is still going and she will until the day she dies. Unlike many of the real scroungers in the country, who probably haven't worked a single day in their lives, that bothers me a lot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpodom Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 There is nothing more entertaining then left and right arguments. The left leaning case is usually bitter and twisted, full of envy. The right wing case is usually more measured but does have a snobby feel to it. My my opinion is that anybody on this site has conservative tendencies as one of their founding principles is to reduce the level of restriction and allow people to plan and proceed with their own lives ie moving to Australia? Currently looking back at the UK from the outside, there are major issues, too many restrictions, too many people, too much commercial pressure, too expensive and yes too few people with too much influence. There are many positives including the Royal Family (who are constantly in the news here), the history, freedom of expression etc. S Everyone (well, everyone who actually stops to reflect on their place in society and whether they feel a compulsion to give or to take from it) lies somewhere on the political spectrum. And by your own admission you're right of centre. Hope that helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali B Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 It's sickening really....so many aspire to wealth but I think many realise it is not the answer. Wealth and greed, the root of all evil IMO Yes. And in this world nowadays there are a frightening number of nasty things happening (environmental, political, social, religious, biological) through poverty, ignorance and lack of access to some basic human needs. We are rapidly getting to the point IMO where we will ALL be affected and suffer unless we can all start watching out for one another, irrespective of income. An ebola virus won't give a stuff whether you are a streetbum or a kardashian... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srg73 Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Pablo, I don't know why I am wasting the energy to acknowledge your reply as you don't know the first thing about me and simply make assumptions which are incorrect. I am working class with the drive to do well as did my parents who left school at 14 and 15, have always worked extremely hard to earn what they have got. They have instilled the same mentality in their 4 children who have also worked very hard throughout their education and working lives to become successful in their own right. Not one of us has taken from the state with my dad being unemployed for a weekend back in the 80's. My personal opinions are for me whether right or left although being Catholic you can guess which way my personal opinions lean towards. Im sure the above give you further amunition to attack me with your left wing opinions. You continue to live your life and I will continue to enjoy my life, yes that is a conservative principle compared to the big state tick box society of the socialists. S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 There is nothing more entertaining then left and right arguments. The left leaning case is usually bitter and twisted, full of envy. The right wing case is usually more measured but does have a snobby feel to it. My my opinion is that anybody on this site has conservative tendencies as one of their founding principles is to reduce the level of restriction and allow people to plan and proceed with their own lives ie moving to Australia? Currently looking back at the UK from the outside, there are major issues, too many restrictions, too many people, too much commercial pressure, too expensive and yes too few people with too much influence. There are many positives including the Royal Family (who are constantly in the news here), the history, freedom of expression etc. S Rather the reverse. The left tend to be less inclined towards envy than the right and seek only a more equitable world with less greed and more focus on what really matters in life. Class plays less a part than days gone with the working class more than capable of civil war from within their ranks. Well Australia is by nature a conservative country but fraught with restrictions. Regulations abound. As for population Australia has one of the fastest growths of anywhere. In fact it has under developed nation growth. Expensive. Yep some of the most expensive real estate in the world in recent times. Influence? Well yes again. A lot is who you know of course. Not a great deal of difference looking from that angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Yes. And in this world nowadays there are a frightening number of nasty things happening (environmental, political, social, religious, biological) through poverty, ignorance and lack of access to some basic human needs. We are rapidly getting to the point IMO where we will ALL be affected and suffer unless we can all start watching out for one another, irrespective of income. An ebola virus won't give a stuff whether you are a streetbum or a kardashian... You are very right. Sadly the rot that has led to the divisions from within society, encouraged by segments of the conservative media, along with various politicians with their divide and rule philosophy, has made it hard work to make many see beyond self interest. Quite possibly only when enough become aware that self interest alone will not win out the day will change follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali B Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Pablo and Danny. You two have more in common than you both realise. You are being divided and ruled... (See Danny I can use dots too!) Danny, read a good up to date government website http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_defence_spending_30.html and look at different sources of information. Poor wealthy and people in between rip others off. It's immoral. It harms others and the only difference is that when the wealthy do it, it's more, much much more than the poor. The bankers who brought down the global markets in 2008 were not from council estates in Manchester. Evasion of tax is a small step from stealing. And it hurts others. So whether or not it's legal isn't really the point. There are some things people do that are just wrong. I have a family member who legally buys bombers (in the country she lives in) that kill civilians in others. We at some stage all of us need to be better than what's happened before, and change what we do and think. Arguments evoking "right wing" "left wing" are sometimes muddling because i don't think anyone on this planet can really define this anymore... Hitler was right wing and an ordinary working class soldier. Pol Pot was a left wing communist tyrant who had a privileged education studying electronics in Paris. Just two examples I know but personally I think people need to see beyond a label and look at the policies. We HAVE TO start watching out for each other - at home and abroad - and if that means I pay tax to provide homes, education, medicine, clean water, food, SAFETY to human beings around the world, then bring it on. We deal with the ones who abuse the system. We don't quote them as a means to NOT do the right thing. Because the bottom line is one day it might be me or my sister or mum that needs someone watching out for them and I hope someone will be there with a safety net if I'm not around. We all have two very very simple choices: we stick together and help. Or we split and walk away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 The Queen pays tax on her personal income and money received from tax payers is not for her personal wealth but is for paying staff and other expenses of the office of the Head of State. I believe it costs about £30million a year so if she had to pay it out of her personal wealth, then she would have been bankrupt a long time ago. A presidency would also cost money, probably a lot more. The Queen has dedicated her life to serve this country and she is still going and she will until the day she dies. Unlike many of the real scroungers in the country, who probably haven't worked a single day in their lives, that bothers me a lot more. This 30 million figure is very dubious,paying for security for them is estimated at 100 million alone,the jubilee bank holiday was estimated to have cost the economy 1.2 billion btw. Maybe it would be a nice gesture if she ploughed the "profits" each yr on her estates into paying for her and her families privileged existence? no need for bankruptcy then is there?,i would like the public to pay me for dozens of unnecessary lackeys too,but they wont The queen has a unique agreement on her tax affairs with HMRC,that was agreed with Majors tory gvnmt,that is why her tax affairs aren't public,they are secretive,but i know she doesn't have to pay inheritance tax like the tax payers who pay for her lifestyle,denying the treasury millions when her mother died. Its similar in a way to charles tax affairs not being audited by HMRC(they just "accept" the figures)and the fact his business,the duchy of cornwall pays no corporation tax Why would a president cost more btw?you know this for fact She doesn't serve me,she was born into an unelected position because of ancient laws written in stone,if serving means jetting around the world in the height of luxury,then yes she "serves" us lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 It's not a side track if this is what your 'hand outs' are sp not on. You'll have to explain this a bit more clearly cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Fact remains the rich are getting richer which in turn means less in the pot for everyone else. What was it described as the 20/80 society?( The one fifth society was thought up a few decades back) Seems still on track and going forward with global integration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Pablo, I don't know why I am wasting the energy to acknowledge your reply as you don't know the first thing about me and simply make assumptions which are incorrect. I am working class with the drive to do well as did my parents who left school at 14 and 15, have always worked extremely hard to earn what they have got. They have instilled the same mentality in their 4 children who have also worked very hard throughout their education and working lives to become successful in their own right. Not one of us has taken from the state with my dad being unemployed for a weekend back in the 80's. My personal opinions are for me whether right or left although being Catholic you can guess which way my personal opinions lean towards. Im sure the above give you further amunition to attack me with your left wing opinions. You continue to live your life and I will continue to enjoy my life, yes that is a conservative principle compared to the big state tick box society of the socialists. S Well you have wasted your time replying,so will i. You are the one with the assumptions(or assertions),that the left leaning case is "bitter and twisted,full of envy",bit of a sweeping generalisation isn't it?! Yes,my father worked all his life too,ran a small haulage firm,my mother also,i have worked all my life too,travelling in the uk and abroad for work,because Liverpool hasn't always been the best for work,but i dont know what that has to do with the debate I haven't "attacked" you,just commented on your amateur psychologist assertions,thats all,and there is no socialists left to speak of btw,left of centre yes,but hardly socialist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gbye grey sky Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Socialism is a great ideal but for it to work effectively it relies on everyone being altruistic in nature. You only need a few greedy selfish people and they can destroy a socialist enterprise. For that reason it is necessary to permit capitalism (aka the law of the jungle) and try to tame it and make it work for everyone including the disadvantaged. Unfortunately capitalism is a tough animal to tame and society is failing to do so at the moment and the rich are not just getting richer but they are getting richer exponentially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyHeart Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Socialism is a great ideal but for it to work effectively it relies on everyone being altruistic in nature. You only need a few greedy selfish people and they can destroy a socialist enterprise. For that reason it is necessary to permit capitalism (aka the law of the jungle) and try to tame it and make it work for everyone including the disadvantaged. Unfortunately capitalism is a tough animal to tame and society is failing to do so at the moment and the rich are not just getting richer but they are getting richer exponentially. This is very true.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyHeart Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 To use just one example and it may be 'common sense' to some (Tories) but how come nurses pay is frozen...yet again...while MPs get a big fat wage rise each year? How the feck does that seem reasonable or just to anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Socialism is a great ideal but for it to work effectively it relies on everyone being altruistic in nature. You only need a few greedy selfish people and they can destroy a socialist enterprise. For that reason it is necessary to permit capitalism (aka the law of the jungle) and try to tame it and make it work for everyone including the disadvantaged. Unfortunately capitalism is a tough animal to tame and society is failing to do so at the moment and the rich are not just getting richer but they are getting richer exponentially. For me,the best we can now hope for is a fairer form of capitalism,one where the tax payer doesn't subsidise massive multi nationals like Walmart,in working tax credits etc for their workers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flag of convenience Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Socialism is a great ideal but for it to work effectively it relies on everyone being altruistic in nature. You only need a few greedy selfish people and they can destroy a socialist enterprise. For that reason it is necessary to permit capitalism (aka the law of the jungle) and try to tame it and make it work for everyone including the disadvantaged. Unfortunately capitalism is a tough animal to tame and society is failing to do so at the moment and the rich are not just getting richer but they are getting richer exponentially. Well while turbo capitalism may appear unstoppable, it looks every bit like destroying its own foundations as it undermines democratic stability and the states ability to function. Which in turn suggests at some point a reaction by the masses and desire to return to old certainties. The ever increasing social decay (in the home of it all) evident in USA and spreading to other countries resulting in crime and a higher prison budget than education I believe. Its sustainability in present gloating form must be seriously questioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Pablo and Danny. You two have more in common than you both realise. You are being divided and ruled... (See Danny I can use dots too!) Danny, read a good up to date government website http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_defence_spending_30.html and look at different sources of information. Poor wealthy and people in between rip others off. It's immoral. It harms others and the only difference is that when the wealthy do it, it's more, much much more than the poor. The bankers who brought down the global markets in 2008 were not from council estates in Manchester. Evasion of tax is a small step from stealing. And it hurts others. So whether or not it's legal isn't really the point. There are some things people do that are just wrong. I have a family member who legally buys bombers (in the country she lives in) that kill civilians in others. We at some stage all of us need to be better than what's happened before, and change what we do and think. Arguments evoking "right wing" "left wing" are sometimes muddling because i don't think anyone on this planet can really define this anymore... Hitler was right wing and an ordinary working class soldier. Pol Pot was a left wing communist tyrant who had a privileged education studying electronics in Paris. Just two examples I know but personally I think people need to see beyond a label and look at the policies. We HAVE TO start watching out for each other - at home and abroad - and if that means I pay tax to provide homes, education, medicine, clean water, food, SAFETY to human beings around the world, then bring it on. We deal with the ones who abuse the system. We don't quote them as a means to NOT do the right thing. Because the bottom line is one day it might be me or my sister or mum that needs someone watching out for them and I hope someone will be there with a safety net if I'm not around. We all have two very very simple choices: we stick together and help. Or we split and walk away. The people i see as being divided Ali,are the ones who lap up the right wing press and their focus on the unemployed "scroungers",ignoring the massive elephant in the room of tax avoidance by companies who can take loans out from arms of the same companies,and write this off in tax,its an absolute joke,legal or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyHeart Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 The people i see as being divided Ali,are the ones who lap up the right wing press and their focus on the unemployed "scroungers",ignoring the massive elephant in the room of tax avoidance by companies who can take loans out from arms of the same companies,and write this off in tax,its an absolute joke,legal or not Both are as bad as each other and greedy oxygen thieves at both ends of the spectrum...meanwhile the rest of us that fall in the middle get shafted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Anyway,its Sunday,time to relax,need it after that abysmal shameful first half last night:arghh: I'm hanging my beret up for the rest of today,i'll put the world to rights manana:laugh:,Cmon the foxes!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Both are as bad as each other and greedy oxygen thieves at both ends of the spectrum...meanwhile the rest of us that fall in the middle get shafted I dont think they are as bad,not when it comes to monetary cost to the UK,bankers like Merril lynch,advise and dine with gvnmt ministers,yet have been fined hundreds of millions by banking regulators,but they are deemed respectable thieves These are the same institutions that advised the gvnmt that the share price for the sell off of royal mail should be as low as £2.50 ffs! these are the same institutions that were allocated 70% of the same shares(by the gvnmt) they were advising on the sell off price,you couldn't script it! while joe public were limited to £700 i think it was,the same joe public that made royal mail what it was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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